posted March 09, 2015 01:17 PM            

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Originally posted by Selenite:

And if it does happen it always turns into something more than a one-night stand. Like FWB but also with a vague sense of commitment, and a moderate amount of soul destruction..

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posted March 09, 2015 01:22 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I don't see it that way. I see it as "knowledge is power". The fact is 70% of men between the ages of 20-34 are not married and most of them are not interested in marriage. This is in stark contrast to the situation a few decades ago where the numbers were the complete opposite of what they are now. The trend steadily got to where it is now over time and that trend is only going to continue to rise. And it's scary to think about the impact that is going to have on the future generations. So yeah, I think that is something that is worth reading into and talking about.

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posted March 09, 2015 01:27 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Oh don't try to turn it around on me... I was a genuinely nice and decent guy that wanted a serious relationship but I was shot out of the sky one too many times. See, I was a fool and a loser for ever thinking women wanted a guy like me. I was the type of guy that was honest,loyal, and treated women with respect. I complied with all the feminist bs about respecting women and their boundaries. Guess what? Women hated and despised me... They'd toy with my emotions,insult and put me down, or outright ignore me.... They treated me like scum on their shoes... Meanwhile they were green-lighting every d-bag coming and going. Despite all the rejection and heartache I dealt with I kept my moral compass and held out hope that I would have my day. That day never came........ And I would still see women green-lighting the d-bags they claim to hate. Years of seeing this took its tole on me but I held on all the same. But finally on new years eve the old me officially died..... You see I went up to my old friend's new years eve party and got to meet his new girlfriend. Since I hadn't seen my friend in awhile it was my first time meeting her. She was attractive, nice, smart, and funny.. She's the type of girl I always wanted. Well guess what? That girl is with my friend who is a major d-bag when it comes to women. He has cheated on every woman he's ever been with and he does it with a smile on his face. He's been getting laid like a rockstar since high school and has never went without some sort of female companionship. Me? I played by all the rules and treated women with respect and got jack....... Seeing my friend with his new girlfriend was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. He didn't respect women, treated them like crap, and here he is with a with a good women while i'm still perpetually single. It just drove home how much of a fool and a sucker i've been. I bought what women were selling me hook,line,and sinker despite all the evidence that it was bs right in front of my face. Well no more..... I'm not anybody's sucker anymore.... I'm not getting back on the hamster wheel. Say what you want.... But i'm not a loser for seeing the game for what it is and giving up. I was a loser for ever believing the lies women told me.

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Aquaguy, you know I love you, but stop being so dramatic. You are still in your early 20's. Try to see the situation for what it is and have some compassion. Both genders get their heart broken. It's all part of the process of growing up, and yes some of it is karmic (how do you know that the girl who is with your friend wasn't clouded by her sun conjunct his Neptune?) My guy that I'm seeing now (he is also a Taurus moon like you, fwiw!) recently admitted to me that he had trust issues with women and he didn't know if he would ever find the right person, but his mother told him that she understands his frustration from multiple disappointments, but to hang in there because it only takes one person to be the right person and she could appear in his life at any time and put everything in the past into perspective... well, we met each other during our Saturn returns, and we have a karmic (past life) tie, with strong Venus-Saturn at 0 degrees.

I have my Juno conjunct Saturn in my natal so my chart actually indicates that I wasn't meant to settle down or live with anyone despite my best efforts (and believe me, I did make strong efforts with a 7th house stellium!) until after my Saturn Return.

posted March 12, 2015 01:25 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
[b] You did similar earlier if I'm not mistaken.
Also, as Randall states, attack ideas, not people and it's your ideas, not you, that I say things like that about. Otherwise, why would I bother? "That's your problem" would be my attitude. It doesn't offend me or anything. I'd just like you to see the error in your thinking. It blocks you from the things you want and we all see it. We all try to tell you so but you can't open your mind a fraction.
I simply meant that this thread is like that. The thread as a whole is pretty ugly.

Also, if that's all you got then I'm going to assume the rest of my post was irrefutable.

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^^^^ 70% of American men aged 20-34 are not married. Just a few decades ago the numbers would have been reversed and closer to 70% of men in that age group would have been married, instead of single. If I just have a bad attitude I guess 70% of American men between the ages of 20-34 just have a bad attitude too. Men are more cynical about marriages/commited relationships today than they've ever been. Why is that? Plenty of men have been talking about it for years now but not many people care to listen. Just look at this article I posted! It's biased against men and sympathetic towards women. That's exactly why I chose this particular article. I believe it captures the anti-male culture we live in very well. It's funny because if you go to the trouble to look in the comment section below the article (where men are responding to share their thoughts) you get a completely different spin on things. [/B][/QUOTE]

I read that article, it's merely the summary of a study. The comments made are completely round the bend and only vindicate any conclusions you could draw from the findings.

posted March 12, 2015 07:49 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
[b]AG
Let me shake it down like this. After, I'm taking the shovel to it for now and you can continue on your own.

You want women. You want a gf. Something that is not only evident even in your twisted views and bitterness, but evident in the history of your posts where you're talking to this woman or that one.
Your very bitterness and twisted views are a large part of why you are unsuccessful in getting one. People smell that s*hit from miles away and pass on you.
In all honesty, I think the majority of us would like to help you. I know I would.
The problem is, your triple fixed pia modality. You have some men and a lot of women telling you that you have it wrong. Not to be mean about it, but to genuinely help. What do you do? In the face of many including many women you tell ALL of us that WE ALL have it wrong. Your stubbornness is beyond anything I've ever seen.
We in turn become just as frustrated as you but for other reasons and it turns to this.
If you want to stop being alone, you're going to have to learn to listen.

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[/B][/QUOTE]

Do you ever think that I am bitter, based on my posts? Because I can tell you that I am. (oops, I didn't know you could move around an on-screen keyboard! Gemini Moon tangent, but it just happened to me.)

I have been so hurt over the past five years. Due to things that happened to me at home, and that I was stupid enough to try to be a grown-up, and not cut a total prick out of my life. I was very shy, but so much happier and excited about life, my future. It wasn't just a guy, it was a few friends, family, guys on OkStupid, and so on. My attitude shown here over the years, has changed in direct correlation to bad treatment increasing insecurities, depression, fear anger...

posted March 12, 2015 09:15 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Those who disagree can kiss my root chakra

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No kiss, but how about a kick?

Better yet, some casual sex there? By Christian Grey assuming he were a real man rather than a female fantasy (and thus be all up on that side of a woman, too).

posted March 12, 2015 10:00 PM            

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Originally posted by teasel:
Do you ever think that I am bitter, based on my posts? Because I can tell you that I am. (oops, I didn't know you could move around an on-screen keyboard! Gemini Moon tangent, but it just happened to me.)

I have been so hurt over the past five years. Due to things that happened to me at home, and that I was stupid enough to try to be a grown-up, and not cut a total prick out of my life. I was very shy, but so much happier and excited about life, my future. It wasn't just a guy, it was a few friends, family, guys on OkStupid, and so on. My attitude shown here over the years, has changed in direct correlation to bad treatment increasing insecurities, depression, fear anger...

Nobody here is just words on a screen. Anything here will be picked up by others eventually. Sometimes, impressions are wrong - I've had assumptions made about me that weren't true, and it's bothersome at times. But you have shown a pattern here, when it comes to your attitude towards most women. People here are trying to help you, but I know how difficult it can be to change your mindset - I'm trying to do it myself, not just with men. You really need to pay attention to them, otherwise you'll be my age, and still believing what's hurting you.

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posted March 12, 2015 10:42 PM            

The judgements you don't want against you, you make against others.
You claim that we don't know you yet you somehow know us enough to know that we're pretending.

Maybe if you didn't BLAME OTHERS for your problems.
Maybe if you'd open your mind A FRACTION.
Maybe if you'd not be so ******* arrogant that you're always right despite everyone on the entire freaking site (at one time or another) telling you that you're wrong.
Maybe if you'd actually LISTEN. I think it's a good sign to listen when EVERYONE ELSE is essentially telling you the same thing. (Women like men who listen btw)
Did it ever occur to you that you're wrong?
No... because you are arrogant and stubborn and would rather get angry like a little kid and call us stupid.
Keep up your twisted @$$ view and pi$$ poor attitude and let me know when that gets you anywhere.
I'm telling you it won't.
You're not going to open anyone's eyes.
You're not going to change the dating world.
You're not going to set the world on fire with this.
Time and time again you're going to run into people like us who think it's a bunch of half cocked whinery from a pessimist.

posted March 12, 2015 11:24 PM            

People are far too dynamic and complex to be viewed quite so black and white.
You'd say that you are deep, complex, have multiple layers, wouldn't you?
You tell us that you're not understood, correct?
The same is true of others. Each person should be treated as such. I understand looking at the whole and looking at trends, etc. It's important.
But it's also important to look at people individually.
Open your 12th house. Explore the depths of individuals. Not the surface.
I'm not even sure how to say it.
Each person is a whole new world.

posted March 12, 2015 11:45 PM            

I'm saying, change your truth. Change the way things are. You're not just in your environment, you ARE your environment also.

I think something that gets lost because it goes unsaid is that I believe some of us are not just pointing out where you're wrong. (We do think you are LOL) but even if you're right. Don't just quit, throw your hands up and say, "that's just how it is."
We're saying, make a change! Not necessarily a strategic change, but something deeper. Soul search.

posted March 13, 2015 09:19 AM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
I find people who are willing to have casual sex spiritually unevolved. Those who disagree can kiss my root chakra

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Go, Cappy, go!

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 09:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
I find people who are willing to have casual sex spiritually unevolved. Those who disagree can kiss my root chakra

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Tbh I think this perspective is spiritually unevolved. Because a truly spiritually aware person would know that we are all given different astrological signatures and are not all designed to place the same importance or weight on the same experiences. So it's the equivalent of saying, "if you're different than me, or if you're more experimental, you are less evolved." Which is, ironically, the arrogant mark of a less-evolved person.

posted March 13, 2015 09:54 AM            

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

Tbh I think this perspective is spiritually unevolved. Because a truly spiritually aware person would know that we are all given different astrological signatures and are not all designed to place the same importance or weight on the same experiences. So it's the equivalent of saying, "if you're different than me, or if you're more experimental, you are less evolved." Which is, ironically, the arrogant mark of a less-evolved person.

No offense. Just an observation.

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I agree with you about differences, but why associate "casual" with experimental? I think experimental are Sting and Trudie Styler who have been practicing tantra for years. Casual is just casual, a casual thing happening with a stranger, it's very repetitive and nothing "experimental" is happening, just the little and in fact meaningless excitement (compared to the range and intensity of excitement provided by real sex) of doing it for the first time with a total stranger and/or having sex with someone you're not attracted to if we're talking FWB here or the likes, since people perceive as FWB someone they clearly aren't attracted to or have romantic feelings for, otherwise the term is pointless. So casual sex is either doing it with a stranger (only the fact that he/she is a male or female counts, therefore consumerism and objectualization), testing your ability to get men or women, or sleeping with someone you clearly perceive as non romantic/non erotic material (since you consider them a FWB) for the "benefits": mutual full body masturbation for "maintenance". Where is the experimental in this? This is about having low(er) standards when it comes to sex, intimacy and romance, and obviously about "the path of minimal resistance" why not seeing it as it is? Personally, I have no problem with people living their life as they wish, it's theirs, what I dislike is presenting something which is in fact the "easiest way", the lower nature, as "experimental", "modern", "free-spirited". There is nothing modern and free-spirited in the objectualization of another human being, on the contrary, it' totally outdated, obsolete and retrograde. It's this kind of hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness that is bothering. And no one so far has managed to explain and express the magic of ONS and casual sex.
I've had ONS myself, used people for sex only, experimented with this feeling of being with a stranger, an unknown man who is only a "male" to you, nothing more, the universal male, there is something exciting in this, but always thought it's something meaningless compared to what could actually happen, sexually, between two people who share a connection, like a little scratch on your pinky compared to riding a huge endless wave. And sexually, one cannot really experiment with a ONS or casual encounter because it takes some time to feel close and ready to open up, at least I couldn't and I know no one who could really open up sexually and experiment with a ONS, men or women. Were any of you able to do that?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 10:10 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I might listen if someone gave me some solid advice or could convince me that i'm wrong with a well thought out logical argument. That hasn't happened yet... All i'm met with are inane platitudes and when I don't go for it I get attacked and told i'm too stubborn. I'm very reasonable if I see sense or logic in what people are saying.
And about listening.... Has anyone listened to me? No......

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Surely you must remember this particular saga started off with a discussion on feminism, not a discussion on your personal problems.

A lot of people gave you 'well thought out logical' arguments in response to your one-sided black-and-white statements about feminism. You never responded adequately to these statements, because you never approached with logic or an open mind. You only view the topic through your own experience and bitterness. You are anything but reasonable.

If you take DeepFreeze's advice to heart, you'll find inner happiness and better relationships, this is a fact because this is how it works for everyone. Nothing will change for a person before they stop blaming others and start accepting responsibility for their happiness.

And to be clear, I personally am not on a mission to help you solve your issues. I respond because I work with oppressed women, who live in a society which treats them like something less valuable than cattle. They are denied education and medical treatment, and are forced into marriages at adolescent age.
But sure, feminism is all about women being gatekeepers and preventing men like you from getting laid. It's all about you.

posted March 13, 2015 10:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I agree with you about differences, but why associate "casual" with experimental? I think experimental are Sting and Trudie Styler who have been practicing tantra for years. Casual is just casual, a casual thing happening with a stranger, it's very repetitive and nothing "experimental" is happening...

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But see, that's your perception, not necessarily the reality. Some have argued that they have more difficult being uninhibited with someone whose opinion they deeply value and respect. Heck, some married men visit prostitutes because they're not comfortable asking their partners to put a finger in their butt or let them dress as babies with pacifiers. Emotional intimacy can be inhibiting in the sexual arena just as much as it can be liberating.

Realistically, one's sex drive is not dependent on one's current relationship status. It exists quite independently of that. How you deal with that is another matter, but that is very much the reality.

quote:

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just the little and in fact meaningless excitement (compared to the range and intensity of excitement provided by real sex) of doing it for the first time with a total stranger and/or having sex with someone you're not attracted to if we're talking FWB here or the likes, since people perceive as FWB someone they clearly aren't attracted to or have romantic feelings for, otherwise the term is pointless.

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This is really presumptuous on your part. I mean, you're actually stating here that someone who has sex outside of a committed relationship is doing it because they're not physically attracted to the person. You're not even allowing for the remote possibility that they can be very much so sexually attracted to the person... and that is what has resulted in the sex.

I understand that sex with intimacy is fulfilling, glorious, soul-affirming, and all manners of positive things. To be honest, I can empathize with the perspective that sex is sacred. I can see where that comes from. However, the more you write, the more I can't help but wonder if rather than viewing it as sacred, you now view it as a form of emotional manipulation and are the type of person who feels that it should be meted out as a reward or withdrawn as a form of punishment; in other words, it sounds like you lack a spontaneous sex drive and don't see the point of sex for its own sake, as its own reward. Do you even find sex pleasurable? Honest question. Because I can definitely see how the value in sex as a tool for emotional intimacy and I definitely know the wisdom of mainly having it with those whom you would hope to pursue a relationship with, but it's not hard for me to see just as a red-blooded human being why or even how people can have sex with someone that they don't know much about, beyond their visceral sexual attraction to the person. Your inability to relate to the feeling of spontaneous sexual attraction or even understand how it could occur I find a bit worrisome.

Maybe you're just getting on in years. It's not a coincidence that historically with every single generation, impulsive sex and sex that occurs before a firm commitment has been established is most prevalent among the youngest age cohort with the most sex hormones in their bloodstream.

posted March 13, 2015 10:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

But see, that's your perception, not necessarily the reality. Some have argued that they have more difficult being uninhibited with someone whose opinion they deeply value and respect. Heck, some married men visit prostitutes because they're not comfortable asking their partners to put a finger in their butt or let them dress as babies. Emotional intimacy can be inhibiting in the sexual arena just as much as it can be freeing.

Realistically, one's sex drive is not dependent on one's current relationship status. It exists quite independently of that. How you deal with that is another matter, but that is very much the reality.

This is really presumptuous on your part. I mean, you're actually stating here that someone who has sex outside of a committed relationship is doing it because they're not physically attracted to the person. You're not even allowing for the remote possibility that they can be very much so sexually attracted to the person... and that is what has resulted in the sex.

I understand that sex with intimacy is fulfilling, glorious, soul-affirming, and all manners of positive things. To be honest, I can empathize with the perspective that sex is sacred. I can see where that comes from. However, the more you write, the more I can't help but wonder if rather than viewing it as sacred, you now view it as a form of emotional manipulation and are the type of person who feels that it should be meted out as a reward or withdrawn as a form of punishment; in other words, it sounds like you lack a spontaneous sex drive and don't see the point of sex for its own sake, as its own reward. Do you even find sex pleasurable? Honest question. Because I can definitely see how the value in sex as a tool for emotional intimacy and I definitely know the wisdom of mainly having it with those whom you would hope to pursue a relationship with, but it's not hard for me to see just as a red-blooded human being why or even how people can have sex with someone that they don't know much about, beyond their visceral sexual attraction to the person. Your inability to relate to the feeling of spontaneous sexual attraction or even understand how it could occur I find a bit worrisome.

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So you're one of those people!
Assuming my post was a personal attack, that it was about you, and brewing an attempt of psychoanalysis bordering on: "Don't attack me, frigid lady!" (since this is what you think I did, attacking you personally)

You're also one of those people thinking or saying "sexually spontaneous" instead of "being horny and feeling like jumping anything that moves" or "polyamorus", "sexually liberated" (I can see you also talk about sex parellel to a committed relationship) instead of a "lying cheater who wants variety, but also the benefits of a partner committed to me who's unaware of my "sexual spontaneity".
Beautifying ugliness.

I can't believe it hasn't occurred to you yet that being "sexually spontaneous" aka horny and in need of release and actually not giving in with anyone, with the risk of objectifying and being objectified and many other implications, is in fact the next evolutionary step?

I'm not talking about myself and me doing this, I am talking about a model and what it means to be sexually spiritual, sexually evolved. I can't believe you're not aware this involves refraining, redirecting, directing, giving meaning, body sacredness, rejecting objectualization and the principle of release, being whole etc etc

quote:

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Heck, some married men visit prostitutes because they're not comfortable asking their partners to put a finger in their butt or let them dress as babies.

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Yikes!
See, this is what I'm talking about, this unbelievably hideous view on sex and other people. The prostitute is an object, human garbage, she doesn't have the same worth as the "partner", the prostitute is the one you can do the dirty things to, and sex is dirty, sticking the finger there is actually dirty, and only the less than human should be used for these "fantasies", this is your view.
Feeling nauseous.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 10:56 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

Yikes!
See, this is what I'm talking about, this unbelievably hideous view on sex and other people. The prostitute is an object, human garbage, she doesn't have the same worth as the "partner", the prostitute is the one you can do the dirty things to, and sex is dirty, sticking the finger there is actually dirty, and only the less than human should be used for these "fantasies", this is your view.
Feeling nauseous.

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What? What? What? And finally, what? Lady, you are so far off. To be honest, I don't even agree with polyamory. I've said myself that I get that sex is most satisfying when it's intimate. I've had casual sex, but I am not currently having casual sex, and if anything, I am a monogamist who prefers long-term relationships. If you have seen me write here, and go on at length about my 7th house stellium, you would know that.

This is about self-righteousness. And how I don't care for it.

Like you, I've done things without commitment in the past. Like you, I prefer commitment. Like you, I personally see how sex is more liberating when in the context of a loving relationship, and how it a form of bonding. What I don't agree with is the notion that because this is my preference, that makes me better than someone who is currently having casual sex. Which is what you and i'm so cappy are saying; that because you don't do this, or more accurately in your case no longer do, that you're better or "more evolved." I'm pointing out the irony that an evolved person does not look down their nose at anyone else. They understand that we are all on our individual journeys, and find individual meaning in that. They understand that we're not all wired the same way. See, you dismiss the prostitute as less-than-human for being willing and able to perform those acts. Did it ever occur to you that the prostitute may not think of herself that way? She may not feel degraded performing those acts? She may not think of herself as unevolved because she is able to detach the sexual act from her identity as a person or her feelings for the sexual partner? You are the ones insinuating that the prostitute is less evolved so spare me your faux outrage and concern-trolling for her.

I may not personally agree with infidelity of any kind, but that doesn't mean that I can't empathize with the desire for sexual novelty, or even that I haven't experienced the feeling of worrying what the person I'm in love with thinks about me, and thus did not feel comfortable sharing all of my sexual fantasies. Being unwilling to act on those feelings doesn't mean that you can't empathize with them or know that they can exist. What I'm saying is honest; what you are saying is disingenous. Pretty little lies.

posted March 13, 2015 10:59 AM            

You can stick to your 70s ideals, but being sexually liberated in the 21st century is being sexually spiritual, understanding and feeling people are whole, equal, not sexual objects, rejecting objectivization, understanding and feeling the sacredness of the body, yours and theirs, becoming aware of the increasing global awareness of energetic fields and invisible energetic connections between people, surrounding the body and impregnating it, incorporating ancient and modern holistic sexual techniques, seeing and feeling the connection between sex and love, having a vertical rather than a horizontal approach and so on.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...