posted March 13, 2015 11:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
And no one so far has managed to explain and express the magic of ONS and casual sex.

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I haven't so far because I get the impression you're more interested in being right and feeling morally superior rather than trying to understand so I don't see a point in going to the effort, especially as I don't believe "spiritual evolution" is a big deal (I even wonder if it's a true and valid concept or simply, ironically enough, pure ego drivel--and I've seen enough to think about all talk of being spiritually evolved is all about ego rather than genuine enlightenment).

Even if it weren't "evolved" it's no big deal in terms of spirit, it will happen in time and they should enjoy the moment rather than hurrying to climb the mountain as fast as they can. And it's hard to be motivated when I read assertions like that and think "So what?"

I have a funny and perhaps paradoxical experience to share which I would more for humor (due to the word "toilets") as much as sharing an alternate perspective but going by some of your responses already I expect it would make you defensive (that is I think you're being more interrogative than genuinely questioning). And you also state some views that I think are easy to challenge (and some concepts just need to be explained because you're confusing them with other concepts instead), though it gets complicated in that at the same time I actually agree with a lot of what you say (at least generally speaking) while some things I can see why you'd say them as the true often enough (but not to the degree you state it) and I have a strong feeling that you'd twist anything I said into a total refutation (and I hate when people misquote me) which also discourages me because how would I straighten that mess out without time and effort that I'm not willing to spend at this time?

Hmmm, maybe I'm suffering LL burnout. Many of my concerns come from having experienced them on LL repeatedly, and sometimes it doesn't bother me and other times (like now) I just feel tired even thinking about it.

posted March 13, 2015 11:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

Yeah, I'm old and frigid, Granny Buzzkill, they call me.
I must have hit a really buzzing nerve there in you, based on your reaction and I don't regret this, maybe it will be helpful to you, at some point, despite your rude defensiveness.

You can stick to your 70s ideals, but being sexually liberated in the 21st century is being sexually spiritual, understanding and feeling people are whole, equal, not sexual objects, rejecting objectivization, understanding and feeling the sacredness of the body, yours and theirs, becoming aware of the increasing global awareness of energetic fields and invisible energetic connections between people, surrounding the body and impregnating it, incorporating ancient and modern holistic sexual techniques, seeing and feeling the connection between sex and love, having a vertical rather than a horizontal approach and so on.

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posted March 13, 2015 11:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

Quite frankly, yeah I think you sound frigid but that's not what irks me. It's the fact that you're frigid NOW, but used to have these all-consuming sexual impulses, and you think you are a better person than those that currently do. When I'm 60 and no longer have use for a vibrator, I'm not going to thumb my nose at the ones who are 23 and still do.

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That's cheap, even for you.

It's almost funny to see you actually believe having "all consuming sexual impulses" leads to someone "sleeping around" or liking casual sex. Geez, you scare me with this. It's the other way around. When sex is intense for someone, it can only be intense. Only people who are a bit asexual can actually enjoy less intense forms of sexuality.

Let me try and say it one more time: it's not about me, my sex life, or my ex sex life or yours. It was not directed at your sex life or about mine. It's a discussion on models and ideas.

And what I disliked about your initial post (I didn't realize then things are much worse then they seem, I mean about your mentality) - and by dislike I mean it made me sad and this is why I reacted - is putting an equal sign between things that aren't and never will be equal. It's something you shouldn't do for your own sake, not mine or others.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 11:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
That's cheap, even for you.

It's almost funny to see you actually believe having "all consuming sexual impulses" leads to someone "sleeping around" or liking casual sex.

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Wrong. That is not what I said. You're just too busy sitting on your high horse to pay attention and actually internalize anything anyone else is saying. I very clearly said that one can have all-consuming sexual impulses and choose to indulge those. I specifically said, "Realistically, one's sex drive is not dependent on one's current relationship status. It exists quite independently of that. How you deal with that is another matter, but that is very much the reality." A person can choose to have sex with someone that they are attracted to, absolutely. Whether they can have sex without knowing the direction that the relationship is going with any certainty is going to depend on their individual placements. It doesn't mean they're unevolved if they're able to do so. And having sex with someone before you know for certain if you'd be compatible in a relationship with that person doesn't mean that you're not attracted to them, (you actually said this laughable thing) or that you're setting your standards too low. It can simply mean that you're prepared to deal with the consequences if in fact nothing substantial DOES materialize out of the sex, and can detach oneself from that outcome. It's only a few degrees removed from being able to have sex with someone without knowing if they will eventually marry you. We don't know if any one relationship will ultimately lead to marriage or heartache/breaking up, but we still (most of us) take the chance on them because we think the rewards are worthwhile. Similar to the potential for an "emotional hangover" from having non-committed sex. I can clearly see that and empathize with those people's logic without being willing to indulge myself anymore.

posted March 13, 2015 11:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I haven't so far because I get the impression you're more interested in being right and feeling morally superior rather than trying to understand so I don't see a point in going to the effort, especially as I don't believe "spiritual evolution" is a big deal (I even wonder if it's a true and valid concept or simply, ironically enough, pure ego drivel--and I've seen enough to think about all talk of being spiritually evolved is all about ego rather than genuine enlightenment).

Even if it weren't "evolved" it's no big deal in terms of spirit, it will happen in time and they should enjoy the moment rather than hurrying to climb the mountain as fast as they can. And it's hard to be motivated when I read assertions like that and think "So what?"

I have a funny and perhaps paradoxical experience to share which I would more for humor (due to the word "toilets") as much as sharing an alternate perspective but going by some of your responses already I expect it would make you defensive (that is I think you're being more interrogative than genuinely questioning). And you also state some views that I think are easy to challenge (and some concepts just need to be explained because you're confusing them with other concepts instead), though it gets complicated in that at the same time I actually agree with a lot of what you say (at least generally speaking) while some things I can see why you'd say them as the true often enough (but not to the degree you state it) and I have a strong feeling that you'd twist anything I said into a total refutation (and I hate when people misquote me) which also discourages me because how would I straighten that mess out without time and effort that I'm not willing to spend at this time?

Hmmm, maybe I'm suffering LL burnout. Many of my concerns come from having experienced them on LL repeatedly, and sometimes it doesn't bother me and other times (like now) I just feel tired even thinking about it.

Of course the fact that you started this thread seeming friendly and curious and implying it must be about the placments only to then turn around and say it's all about how spiritually evolved and/or psychologically damaged one is rather than placements leaves me thinking that you had some not-so-nice reasons for starting this thread at all since you don't think it's about placements as you implied before getting people to hopefully out themselves and then you slap that on them and that makes it hard for me to trust you even when you switch to being nice.

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Oh, please, you and other people made it about morality because it triggered a defensiveness in you, you probably feel guilty about your lifestyle and you shouldn't, or you should change it if you feel so guilty about it.

There's also this misunderstanding I am "preaching" about my lifestyle, I talk about myself. And this always happens with people "all consumed" with their own lifestyle, everything has to be about them, a personal validation or invalidation, probably coming from a lot of personal insecurity. Unable to discuss a topic for the sake of it.

As I was saying, I've had casual encounters and ONS myself but it never crossed my mind they are equal to sexual liberation or spiritual sex or intimacy. Seeing people who actually put an equal sign between those, still existing lol, is a surprise, but I was and still am open to see the magic and glory of casual sex, still waiting for a description, but so far everyone attempting it has shown only incredible ugliness and spiritual "involution" such as seeing people as objects, seeing prostitutes as "providers of dirty sex", seeing sex as dirty, mistaking hornyness with sexual liberation or intensity etc etc.

This is your show, not mine.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 11:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
BTW, Aquacheeka, your language matches your collection of ugly thoughts and "life principles". You know what they say, in vino veritas...it's the same when someone gets angry about something, this is one of those moments when you can see how truly "evolved" they are.

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You started out this thread with a benign question involving astrological placements, and ended it by insulting people, saying that some people are less evolved or self-aware than you are, saying that anyone who DOES the acts that you specifically asked about is objectifying others (but who was mutual consent?), and full-out stating that if anyone spoke an uncomfortable truth or as you say "ugly words," then it must be because of their "immoral polyamorous lifestyle" and couldn't possibly be because of a desire to understand or empathize with their fellow human beings and what truly motivates them.

posted March 13, 2015 11:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

You started out this thread with a benign question involving astrological placements, and ended it by insulting people, saying that some people are less evolved, saying that anyone who DOES the acts that you specifically asked about is objectifying others (but who was mutual consent?), and full-out stating that if anyone spoke an uncomfortable truth or as you say "ugly words," then it must be because of their "immoral lifestyle" and couldn't possibly be because of a desire to understand or empathize their fellow human beings and what truly motivates them.

I would actually love to know your placements because you are clearly very arrogant and very fake.

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Your forgot to call me **** or frigid or old or dumb at the end of this post. I suggest you go back and reread the posts to see what actually happened, to see the actual story.

Obviously some people are more spiritually evolved than others, always have, always will be. What the hell? You don't know about this yet? What is this, contemporary psychological communism? This doesn't mean I am, but someone definitely is more spiritually evolved than me, there are millions, and clearly millions more evolved than you. If this makes you feel inferior rather than inspired, it's your little pathetic problem, not mine.

I also suggest you use a proper language from now on, at least on my thread.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 11:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Your forgot to call me **** or frigid or old at the end of this post. I suggest you go back and reread the posts to see what actually happened, to see the actual story.

Obviously some people are more spiritual evolved than others, always have, always will be. What the hell? You don't know about this yet? What is this, contemporary psychological communism? This doesn't mean I am, but someone definitely is more spiritually evolved than me, there are millions, and clearly millions more evolved than you. If this makes you feel inferior rather than inspired, it's your little pathetic problem, not mine.

I also suggest you use a proper language from now on, at least on my thread.

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Question: Why didn't you phrase the question, "Who here has one night stands and is at a lower level of evolution? Anyone? Anyone?"

Because you're a fake person. You can only hide who you really are for so long. If you're unpleasant and condescending, that will eventually come out, and it did with you.

As I already stated, being willing to have sex with someone in an undefined or as-yet-to-be-defined relationship is only separated from being willing to have sex with someone you're not married to by a matter of degrees. So is every Westerner currently having sex but not the tantric kind within wedlock actually asexual (I lol'ed at the stupidity of this), not respecting themselves and less evolved than the religious person who saves it for the wedding night? Of course not. You are just literally too simple to see the gaping holes in your logic.

Bringing it back to the beginning of your nitpicking my statements to begin this debate, you said that casual sex is "mechanical," "repetitive" and "not remotely experimental," and that your most experimental sex is tantric marital sex. That's awesome. I'm happy for you. However, until you recognize that your truth is just that - your truth - and not universal truth, you're not actually evolved at all, you're quite slow. Fixating on "ugly words" does not change the reality that not everyone feels the same way that you do or has had identical experiences.

posted March 13, 2015 12:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
Surely you must remember this particular saga started off with a discussion on feminism, not a discussion on your personal problems.

A lot of people gave you 'well thought out logical' arguments in response to your one-sided black-and-white statements about feminism. You never responded adequately to these statements, because you never approached with logic or an open mind. You only view the topic through your own experience and bitterness. You are anything but reasonable.

If you take DeepFreeze's advice to heart, you'll find inner happiness and better relationships, this is a fact because this is how it works for everyone. Nothing will change for a person before they stop blaming others and start accepting responsibility for their happiness.

And to be clear, I personally am not on a mission to help you solve your issues. I respond because I work with oppressed women, who live in a society which treats them like something less valuable than cattle. They are denied education and medical treatment, and are forced into marriages at adolescent age.
But sure, feminism is all about women being gatekeepers and preventing men like you from getting laid. It's all about you.

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posted March 13, 2015 01:06 PM            

I start the thread with the astrological intention of finding a connection between astrological placements and ONS/casual sex (or not finding it). I have, like anyone else, my own history and ideas on the matter, but this is not the initial issue.

I expect people to come and share their placements and their experience with this. Most people, as you have seen have had ONS or embrace the idea some other people have ONS, but they see the real limitation in this, don't make a big deal out of this or an entire philosophy. As it happens and the thread shows, the majority of people have a realistic, down-to-earth-combined-with- spirituality-love approach on this. I'm also open to people having a totally different view, something I initially consider as ugly or stupid, to offer me a new vista on the matter by bringing out the poetry in those things, to make you see the hidden beauty.

Then someone comes along with what I feel and consider a hypocritical speech, or filled with self-denial, this is what usually sets me off. This is my fault, something I still lack, facing that moment with indifference and a data gathering attitude, not taking it to heart, not feeling sad about it.

By self denial or hypocritical I mean someone who by all standards embraces something ugly as being beautiful (self-denial) or presents something ugly as being beautiful and valuable (hypocrisy). Strangely to me, some people believe tolerance means finding everything equally valuable, everyone equally beautiful. I find this utopic and a lie, no one actually believes that, just some people know how to hide this and I don't...yet lol

Look, if I come here and "confess" I have traveled the world and have enjoyed experiencing the locals just because they were locals and Cappy or someone else comes along and makes fun of me or shows her indignation, I can see the meaning in what she does, that she is right. Indulging in something questionable and shady is one thing, preaching it as liberating and luminous is another thing. It's not that I am necessarily ashamed of having consumed the natives, but I am aware it's something one gives up when reaching higher levels of existence or sexuality, this kind of consumerism, not that I am there, but it's about being aware of its existence. Nothing to do with morality or marriage or whatever you guys are saying here, you're in another picture, really.
That's about it.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 01:26 PM            

How do you know who or what is more evolved? Look, I have a friend who is a Gemini sun Gemini moon who is 32 and has never had a relationship last longer than 3 months. She prefers casual or at least shorter-term relationships. For all I know, she was too Plutonian in her last incarnation and killed herself over an unrequited crush, and has earned her lighter touch in this one - that might be her positive karma and spiritual lesson, to be more mercurial and less heavy. What gives you the right to assume that one who feels differently or to a different degree is less evolved?

That is what you're not understanding.

posted March 13, 2015 01:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
Eh, I think people just have a different view of what's ugly or beautiful. Nothing is inherently ugly or beautiful, so it's not like people are 'denying' the 'truth.' Who gets to decide that? And if things were in fact inherently ugly or beautiful, right or wrong, everyone would have the same opinion of what is and what isn't.

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Hm... actually I disagree with this. I have a strange view on this, I believe people no matter where and how they are born and raised, have an inherent knowledge about ugly/beautiful, right/wrong, like a little voice. By right/wrong, ugly/beautiful I mean there is an ultimate truth. The road to it may be different and it is different, but there is a final perfect truth about everything, often equal to an ideal history already knows about. We all go to the same place. Well, this is my personal view, a core one, obviously radiating towards my other views.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 01:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hm... actually I disagree with this. I have a strange view on this, I believe people no matter where and how they are born and raised, have an inherent knowledge about ugly/beautiful, right/wrong, like a little voice. By right/wrong, ugly/beautiful I mean there is an ultimate truth. The road to it may be different and it is different, but there is a final perfect truth about everything, often equal to an ideal history already knows about. We all go to the same place. Well, this is my personal view, a core one, obviously radiating towards my other views.

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posted March 13, 2015 01:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
So what's the ultimate truth?

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How should I know?

It's like a guiding star you continually move towards, until you reach it.

Ehh, I know you too feel it is there

posted March 13, 2015 01:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
How should I know?

It's like a guiding star you continually move towards, until you reach it.

Ehh, I know you too feel it is there

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posted March 13, 2015 01:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
I feel my own sense of guiding-star truth, definitely. But it's not the same for, say, my roommate. Or my mom, or my cat, my boyfriend, my best friend, my professors.. etc.

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Are you sure? You may be surprised

Well, then you believe there are separate truths for separate people, like different universes, all going to different places, and the ultimate experience can actually be the opposed one compared to the others, no universal truth. We have a different view and one of us is wrong, but we will eventually find out how things work

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 02:09 PM            

I am trying to use an example without stigmatizing a category, so I'll use mine.

I was a smoker. Almost 2 packs a day. I loved smoking. I wanted to smoke. I was also aware all the time I love smoking because smoking makes me love it, because I indulge in smoking, I give in. Not because smoking is cool, valuable or beautiful. Actually, if you think about it, deliberately filling your lungs with smoke, with death and enjoying it, especially surrounded by millions of people, children, and all kinds of creatures fighting for one more day of life, one more breath of air, is a ridiculous, even offensive habit.

I've always known this is self-destructive, a dead end. I have also come to believe everyone knows, in that little voice, when something is "bad" and not "good" or that something else is "better".

So my question to you is: do you believe there is one smoker who doesn't have that little voice?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 02:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Are you sure? You may be surprised

Well, then you believe there are separate truths for separate people, like different universes, all going to different places, and the ultimate experience can actually be the opposed one compared to the others, no universal truth. We have a different view and one of us is wrong, but we will eventually find out how things work

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Why does anyone have to be wrong? I can't help but think that's a limiting view to have.

posted March 13, 2015 02:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:

But sure, feminism is all about women being gatekeepers and preventing men like you from getting laid. It's all about you.

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posted March 13, 2015 02:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MarsSaturnDelight:
Why does anyone have to be wrong? I can't help but think that's a limiting view to have.

People have different paths in life and how individuals negotiate it will be respective to their own personal experience; as long as it's done with good intentions, who's right or wrong?

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Because they are two contradictory statements and only one can be true, logically speaking? It's either "one universal truth" or "several universal truths".

And I agree with you, the path is different and this is the beauty of it.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 13, 2015 02:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
Surely you must remember this particular saga started off with a discussion on feminism, not a discussion on your personal problems.

A lot of people gave you 'well thought out logical' arguments in response to your one-sided black-and-white statements about feminism. You never responded adequately to these statements, because you never approached with logic or an open mind. You only view the topic through your own experience and bitterness. You are anything but reasonable.

If you take DeepFreeze's advice to heart, you'll find inner happiness and better relationships, this is a fact because this is how it works for everyone. Nothing will change for a person before they stop blaming others and start accepting responsibility for their happiness.

And to be clear, I personally am not on a mission to help you solve your issues. I respond because I work with oppressed women, who live in a society which treats them like something less valuable than cattle. They are denied education and medical treatment, and are forced into marriages at adolescent age.
But sure, feminism is all about women being gatekeepers and preventing men like you from getting laid. It's all about you.

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posted March 13, 2015 02:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
^^^^^^ This is what i'm talking about. It's impossible to argue with people who read things into posts that aren't there. I never said or implied such a thing.

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