posted April 16, 2015 07:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Bottom line, drugs are illegal, so you know the risks of imprisonment if you use them, and especially if yuou sell them. It doesn't matter if you think it's unfair or that it should change. It is what it is. You have to make choices based on how things are, not you want them to be.

---

This is understandable. The average straight edged joe, to stoners, hard drug users, drug sellers, etc... They all understand this.

Still everyone is entitled to their own opinions. And reform only happens when we see what is wrong with the system and look to change it.

I believe the law is way too harsh on weak ass crimes. A pot smoker might get several years for having a felony level possession charge and while in prison, get turned into a real criminal that is involves in gangs. When he gets out, he might not have a lot of choices because he spent years in prison and can't find work and simply doesn't know how to function in society anymore, all he knows is what people in prison have told him about making fast money stealing things, robbing houses, selling drugs etc. So the law basically turns your average young person that experiments with drugs into a hardened criminal with a ruined life. Yes drugs are harmful and most of the time ruin lives depending on the drug, but imprisoning drug offenders is he worst option.

posted April 16, 2015 09:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
That's true. It won't intimidate people into following it. And that's why they know the consequences if they get caught. I am especially surprised at the stupidity of college students. A drug conviction costs them all rights to financial aid forever. It really points to a lack of self-control to even risk it. If they choose to do so, they know the results. If I run a red light, know matter how angry I feel about getting a ticket, no one pushed my foot against the gas pedal. Those who feel that the law is unfair, try to change it. But in the meantime, if you violate it, be ready to accept responsibility for doing so.

---

posted April 17, 2015 01:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Lack of empathy is a clinical symptom.

How can we promote healing if we blame people for their illness?

---

Do you believe sociopaths can acquire empathy?

posted April 17, 2015 02:05 AM            

I think drug use whether via selling or purchasing, should be penalized, but not to the extent it is. When people can murder and rape, and get out in 5 years while those who are convicted with heavy drug possession stay in longer, that is when we need to evaluate the system. It sends the wrong message, especially for crimes that are against women.

As for the jail system, I think we need a place to rehabilitate people, because some are too dangerous to be allowed into mainstream society until their emotional, mental, and physical issues are addressed. The structure and resources for rehabilitation need to be improved drastically, but the concept of jail is needed.

Now, on the issue of pot, should we legalize on the basis of medicinal purposes: NO. I do not have a problem with people smoking pot, because there are worse things, but moderation and good judgement should used. I'm not sure I would support legalization on the basis of this though, as long as there are negative outcomes, we cannot treat it as legal. In order for medicinal legalization of pot to happen, two things need to occur:

(1) Cannabis should show long-term improvements in health outcomes

(2) Cannabis should not have negative side effects that can be harmful

posted April 17, 2015 08:51 AM            

They can't by natural means but a true relationship with God can do anything imo

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posted April 17, 2015 11:32 AM            

I think psych drugs are CRIMINAL in what they do to people, in most cases.

The shrinks don't even know what they do. They throw them at people like people are rats in a lab.

DISGRACEFUL!

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posted April 17, 2015 01:53 PM            

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posted April 17, 2015 10:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Do you believe sociopaths can acquire empathy?

They can't by natural means but a true relationship

with God can do anything imo

---

Right-o-- they can't.

I agree on the latter, as well.

Absolutely.

I've often wondered though if sociopaths are suffering

from a medical condition, or spiritual one.

posted April 17, 2015 10:29 PM            

from a medical condition, or spiritual one.

Spiritual, my Friend

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posted April 18, 2015 08:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eirlys:
Do you believe sociopaths can acquire empathy?

---

That's a question I cannot answer at present.

The whole concept, or diagnosis of "sociopath" has been in question, at least out-with the US for a long time.

Do I think that someone who lacks empathy does not, or cannot learn, to *behave* considerately, or is destined to be a criminal? No.

Look into "Theory of Mind". There are more issues from a known lack of theory of mind, than from known lack of empathy. And I suspect that many cases of diagnosed "sociopaths", are actually theory of mind issues. In fact, there is little difference between the two.

And do we say that individuals with autism (who apparently lack theory of mind) lack empathy? We could. Does that make them "sociopaths" and monsters, and "spiritually wounded"?

posted April 18, 2015 08:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]Do you believe sociopaths can acquire empathy?

They can't by natural means but a true relationship with God can do anything imo

[/B]

---

I know little of a "true relationship with god". And I did not see this play out when I was indoctrinated into Christianity as a child.

posted April 18, 2015 08:43 AM            

Did this individual receive this brain injury as a result of insufficient relationship with god?

Do those who have a sufficient relationship with god never acquire brain injuries that damage the emotional functioning of their brains?

Is this individual, who may have led an altruistic, meaningful, and considerate life, now a monster, or a "sociopath" due to an acquired brain injury?

posted April 18, 2015 03:56 PM            

I agree on this, that sociopaths can be taught to conform to

society via reward and punishment- just like the rest of us.

Institutionalizing those who refuse is hardly the persecution

it's being made out to be, and would be a dereliction of our

duty to protect the innocent, if we failed to do so.

And do we say that individuals with autism (who apparently lack theory of mind) lack empathy? We could. Does that make them "sociopaths" and monsters, and "spiritually wounded"?

OP has clarified several times now that this thread

is about sociopaths/malignant narcissists -- who,

incidentally, thrive on chaos.

It's interesting that posters continue (after these clarifications)

to invoke the supposed lack of empathy in autistic people-- who

do NOT thrive on chaos.

And no wonder... there is a CHASM between Autistic people and Sociopaths--

your suggestion that they could be linked is something I personally

find repugnant.

posted April 18, 2015 04:07 PM            

It has taken me 6-7 long years to learn to ignore the people who try to harass me.

I have to thank the many years of being a Mod and the wonderful role models of Randall and Lalalinda for this.

I am getting ready to play guitar and sing with my friend who is a professional musician, so that will take me to new vistas.

My guitar teacher is really, really good at dealing with harassment

If someone is a jerk while he is playing, he stops and holds up his guitar and says, "Do YOU want to try?"

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posted April 18, 2015 04:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eirlys:
[b] That's a question I cannot answer at present.

The whole concept, or diagnosis of "sociopath" has been in question, at least out-with the US for a long time.

Do I think that someone who lacks empathy does not, or cannot learn, to *behave* considerately, or is destined to be a criminal? No.

I agree on this, that sociopaths can be taught to conform to

society via reward and punishment- just like the rest of us.

Institutionalizing those who refuse is hardly the persecution

it's being made out to be, and would be a dereliction of our

duty to protect the innocent, if we failed to do so.

And do we say that individuals with autism (who apparently lack theory of mind) lack empathy? We could. Does that make them "sociopaths" and monsters, and "spiritually wounded"?

OP has clarified several times now that this thread

is about sociopaths/malignant narcissists -- who,

incidentally, thrive on chaos.

It's interesting that posters continue (after these clarifications)

to invoke the supposed lack of empathy in autistic people-- who

do NOT thrive on chaos.

And no wonder... there is a CHASM between Autistic people and Sociopaths--

your suggestion that they could be linked is something I personally

find repugnant.

[/B]

---

Eirlys,

Actually, the only commonality I highlighted was between Theory of Mind and lack of empathy.

And, if you also read the OP, you will see that the only term referring to the manifestation of lacking empathy, was "monster". Not "sociopath, nor "narcissist".

The responses the OP has provoked make perfect sense when you consider the prejudice with which the thread was begun.

And, Ami,

if you are not willing to participate in an honest, comprehensive discussion, perhaps you could pick shallower topics.

posted April 20, 2015 11:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Thank you, E

It has taken me 6-7 long years to learn to ignore the people who try to harass me.

I have to thank the many years of being a Mod and the wonderful role models of Randall and Lalalinda for this.

I am getting ready to play guitar and sing with my friend who is a professional musician, so that will take me to new vistas.

My guitar teacher is really, really good at dealing with harassment

If someone is a jerk while he is playing, he stops and holds up his guitar and says, "Do YOU want to try?"

---

LoL

That's great.

I think the pearl-clutching is killing

what could have been an interesting topic,

but I'm sure I'll adjust soon enough.

posted April 20, 2015 12:29 PM            

so it doesn't seem that judgemental to me. In fact it felt like some people were saying you can't call autistic people monsters therefore the OP is overgeneralized. Not equating autistism to NPD etc.

posted April 20, 2015 01:11 PM            

but I'm sure I'll adjust soon enough.

I sense you have a good gut. If your GUT tells you someone is harassing you, they are.

If you ignore, you will drive them more crazy

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