posted July 31, 2015 03:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I don't say this to be a jerk, or to speak to YOU, in particular, but I find that many of the people who say this don't realize that they do have a blunted empathy from either abuse and/or an afflicted chart.

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posted July 31, 2015 03:28 PM            

I have Cancer Moon conj the MC, so I have to show my heart to the world.

I can't help it lol

My abuse shows in an 8th house nessus oppose the Child asteroid.

I wish I did not have any of the mess that made me understand pain but I try to use it to help others, and help myself too.

I feel it is my destiny and the chart shows it.

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posted July 31, 2015 03:36 PM            

On this note, people in families seem to have many, exact Chiron connections.

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posted July 31, 2015 08:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I don't say this to be a jerk, or to speak to YOU, in particular, but I find that many of the people who say this don't realize that they do have a blunted empathy from either abuse and/or an afflicted chart.

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posted July 31, 2015 08:27 PM            

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posted July 31, 2015 09:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I am not saying Jupiter is dark. I am saying it is a marker for conscience!

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posted July 31, 2015 09:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
@AG

A very troubled Jupiter would have to be combined with a very troubled Moon. If one was blessed with a good moon, so to speak, there would not be a lack of empathy imo

However, now that I think of it, a person I know who was a sociopath had every single planet but one making a hard aspect to Jupiter but his Moon was not bad lol

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Ami,

posted July 31, 2015 09:42 PM            

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posted July 31, 2015 09:43 PM            

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posted July 31, 2015 09:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
A troubled planet would be one with many hard aspects to it such as squares with other planets, P.

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Thanks.

posted July 31, 2015 10:06 PM            

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posted August 01, 2015 10:07 PM            

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posted August 01, 2015 10:08 PM            

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posted August 02, 2015 06:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I can't say without looking at the whole chart, P. It is not that I am being coy. I really can't say

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posted August 02, 2015 06:44 PM            

A person exercising empathy chooses her words carefully, and doesn't use language like you did in your Libra moon post. I'm using this example because I have a hard time with libra moons as well. I have mars/Saturn/Pluto in libra, so depending on where a libra moon falls in my chart, it will conjunct one of those hard planets and possibly square my moon, and we both know how you feel about that aspect! That said, I was offended for them with what you wrote. It was very "first person" and to be brutally honest, narrow minded. HOWEVER, your experience with libra moons creates the perfect opportunity to practice empathy.

Instead of saying and thinking things like:

I have a domicile cancer moon

Cancer moons can express the best lunar qualities

Saying and thinking things like this creates bias in our minds, and it affects our thoughts. Instead, think like a libra moon! Imagine what they think of you, and try to understand it. You're a gemini after all. Having a duel perspective is a gem's forte.

The issues you brought to light in your "this is what I mean" thread is another good opportunity to practice empathy. I reference this because I know it's difficult. You have some cherished views on what's right and wrong, good and evil, and it's hard to disconnect from that only to engage such foreign views, but that's empathy.

There's also a specific reason I'm referencing this thread as well. Someone in that thread made a comment like: one party getting back what they served.

^ When you understand the truth in that statement, you'll be closer to understanding empathy, and having a larger outlook on the entire situation.

Empathy is HARD!!!! Complex!

Easy when relating with people similar to yourself, and I'm not even sure I'd call that empathy.

Consider this:

"Everybody sees the world differently, based on their experiences, their up-bringing, culture, religion, opinions and beliefs. In order to empathise with another person you need to see the world from their perspective and therefore need to use some imagination as to what their perspective is based on, how they see the world and why they see it differently from you. Many people find it easier to empathise with people who are closer to them and have more shared experiences and views.

We have all been exposed to news stories of drought and famine in Africa. We can feel sorry for those affected and may be able to help in some way. We hear stories of people walking across the desert to become refugees in a neighbouring country or region, see the pictures of flies buzzing around children with matchstick arms and swollen stomachs, but can we emphasise? The information we are receiving via the media is limited and we don’t have all the facts. If we have never lived in a desert and have had very few shared experiences with the people in question then our imaginations cannot accurately fill in the gaps of information and enable us to fully empathise. More likely we feel sympathetic or pity for the people concerned."

Find more at: http://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/empathy.html#ixzz3hhRA3Cp5

posted August 02, 2015 07:29 PM            

Thanks for reading through my post and answering my question.

I know you don't have a lot of fans here, but like Odette, I don't see you the way others do. Perhaps it's the similarities between my chart and hers (we have the same AC / moon, her Aries sun/ mine in house 1, Pisces mercury / mine in house 12) - similar outlooks(?). Anyways, in another thread, you said,

"I do not say these things (the things you say about female behavior) to be hateful. I say them because I want to see change."

I believe this ^ 100%, and I sense your frustration. There's something different in your communications compared to others, and I feel like you have trustworthy views and opinions. The things you admit!!!! Wow!! It's like you're immune to social norms. Lol. How aquarian of you. You're honest (also very aquarian of you) in a way that tells me your evaluations are objective and filtered of self-centered motives. You don't try to skew the truth or your opinions to enhance / preserve a certain image of yourself. I appreciate that.

Over and over, I read descriptions of the aquarian perspective that uses labels like:

"Unconventional

Unusual

Non-traditional"

And commentary like:

"Their revolutionary leanings can sometimes throw the baby out with the bath water. They may also suffer from being too far ahead of their times with unfortunate consequences."

Leeloo once said,

"It will take the same amount of years, as I was saying, to establish the balance between the past (when women and cattle had the same rights and they were part of husbandry dowry blah blah, just like your pastor describes - for this is the origin of that Bible speech) and this bright and shiny future when there will be no matriarchy and no patriarchy. Relax! We have a long way to go!"

I see truth in what she said here. It may be an obvious point to make, and I feel a little silly making it, but for the sake of clarification, have you ever considered that the changes you'd like to see are perhaps premature? Ever had a hard time relating to something you've been told over and over, then one day, have an experience that sparks that "aha" moment, and suddenly everything makes sense. Maybe certain experiences are necessary before people can relate to your views. Maturing is a process (physically, mentally, spiritually).

You may think that your messages fall on deaf ears, but for me, you've brought to light things that make me reconsider my attitudes and behaviors. You haven't been making your points in vain.

posted August 02, 2015 09:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ReachingForTheStars:
Ami, ...

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RFTS, I just wanted to tell you how much I admire you for taking the initiative of explaining all this in depth, not only to Ami, but also to anyone else who happens to be lurking here. I've long thought of doing this myself, but with a 3H Chiron and a naturally reserved personality, I couldn't find the correct words to do so and didn't dare post anything fearing it'd be too offensive.

But you've done it beautifully, and you have all my support. I'm glad I wasn't mistaken when I suggested your name as a Mod a while ago.

posted August 02, 2015 09:58 PM            

Great observation and I agree

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posted August 04, 2015 01:50 AM            

Just recently, I was reminded of a familiar quote that reads:

"with great power comes great responsibility."

Words have tremendous power. There are times when things are better left unsaid and other times where reserving comment does more harm than good. Knowing which is which can be a challenge. On top of that, encoding messages for optimal understanding is difficult in such a noisy world. Your reservations are completely justified. I have them too.

posted August 04, 2015 01:53 AM            

"Negative emotions do us a great favor: They save us from ourselves. They're signals urging us to change what we're doing—and they're actually necessary for feeling good"

"Emotions that generate unpleasant feelings have been called sins (wrath, envy), shunned in polite interaction (jealousy, frustration), or identified as unhealthy (sadness, shame). We suppress them, medicate them, and berate ourselves for feeling them.

Because such feelings are aversive, they are often called "negative" emotions, although "negative" is a misnomer. Emotions are not inherently positive or negative. They are distinguished by much more than whether they feel good or bad. Beneath the surface, every emotion orchestrates a complex suite of changes in motivation, physiology, attention, perception, beliefs, and behaviors: sweating, laughing, desiring revenge, becoming optimistic, summoning specific memories. Each component of every emotion has a critical job to do—whether it's preparing us to move toward what we want (anger), urging us to improve our standing (envy), or allowing us to undo a social gaffe (embarrassment).

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201501/beyond-happiness-the-upside-feeling-down?collection=169093

I quote these things because this has been my experience.

Some things to think about:

Let's consider social conditioning for a bit...

"Social conditioning is the process of training individuals in society to have certain beliefs, behaviors, desires and emotional reactions, which are approved by society in general or by certain groups within it. Your social conditioning begins when you’re just a small baby, and it’s most acute throughout your childhood and adolescence, but it goes on your entire life. It’s carried out by parents, teachers, peers and people in your community, by the novels you read, the media, the church and the ads you see.

Social conditioning often works by rewarding certain behaviors, thus reinforcing them, and punishing other behaviors."

http://iameduard.com/socialconditioning/

Why am I quoting an article on social conditioning?

Because if we (society) continue to encourage social norms that sanctions the emotions (anger) that prevents us from being exploited and devalued, (shame, guilt, embarrassment) that help us "learn from our mistakes," "become more generous and cooperative," (envy) improve our standings - then we are a stagnating species fooling ourselves with the very intelligence we depend on for guidance.

I too would like to see change - change in the way we view emotions.

Here's another good link:
http://karlamclaren.com/critical-thinking-skills-for-your-emotions/

And back to the subject:
http://karlamclaren.com/the-six-essential-aspects-of-empathy-part-1-emotion-contagion/

posted August 04, 2015 09:14 AM            

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posted August 27, 2015 10:16 PM            

There has been various experiences with psychopath.
Why? Because, while not all form of psychopathic behaviors take the form of violence, it is often marked by a general lack of empathy, guilt, conscience or ability to show remorse.

A test in specific made three groups, one of highly psychotic individuals, another of medium, and the last one made of weakly psychopath.
They were told to imagine various accidents, to themselves and others. The interesting thing is, when highly psychopathic individuals imagined accidents happening to others, the ventral striatum (area involved in pleasure) lit up.
Furthermore, they showed abnormal activity between the insula and ventromedial prefrontal cortex, an area important for empathetic decision making. However, when they imagined accidents happening to themselves, the anterior insula, anterior midcingulate cortex, somatosensory cortex and right amygdala (which are generally involved in empathy process) showed signs of activity. Beside, the response was quite pronounced, suggesting they were sensitive to thoughts of pains.

By contrast, the less psychopathic individuals showed more normal brain activation and connectivity in these areas when asked to imagine accidents to other people.

The strange patterns of brain activation and connectivity in highly psychopathic individuals showed that they did not experience empathy when imagining the pain of others, and possibly took pleasure in it.

Moreover, another test effectuated brai nscans of ATSPD people compared to a control group of individuals without any mental disorders.
The results showed on average an 18% reduction in the volume of the brain's middle frontal gyrus and a 9% reduction in the volume of the orbital frontal gyrus.
Those two being sections in the brain's frontal lobe, associated with higher mental processes (thinking, decision making and planning)
Another brain study showed that the psychopaths suffered from another deformation of the brain in a part called "the amygdala" (generally associated as the seat of emotions), showing a thinning of the outer layer called "the cortex" by an average of 18% volume.

There are many many more studies showing correlation between a lack (or higher) of empathy and deformities with the brain itself.
Moreover, another area of research called "behavioral genetics" is currently examining the roles of genetic influence versus the environmental influences on animal (and human) behavior.

posted August 28, 2015 08:32 AM            

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posted August 28, 2015 09:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I disagree. Jupiter is a benevolent planet even when it's in hard aspect. People with hard jupiter aspects will still have the positive traits of Jupiter (optimism, generosity etc.) but may have a tendency to overdo things and be irresponsible or careless.

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