posted July 29, 2015 09:03 PM            

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posted July 29, 2015 09:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Valentine:
Yes, it's possible.

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Yes, I think so, too. I think the chart can suggest it but I don't know enough.

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posted July 29, 2015 11:00 PM              

I believe people can be naturally sadistic without having any traumatic events happen to them.

posted July 29, 2015 11:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by goddessofthemoon:
Yes, I do.

I believe people can be naturally sadistic without having any traumatic events happen to them.

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Thanks, G! It helps to hear these comments. Bless you, guys.

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posted July 30, 2015 02:22 AM            

Empathy is one of the core functions of emotional intelligence. In order to develop empathy, one must be aware of his/her own emotions. Too often, I see people denying and "demonizing" emotions as if it's a "bad" thing - as if it makes one immature, irrational, and inferior to others. Lots of people are ashamed to feel certain emotions especially ones that threaten the self-image. Take AG's thread on jealousy. Most of the people on this site have negative views on it. When that's the case, who's willing to raise their hand and say, "Me! Me! Me! Here.I'm a jealous person! I get jealous all the time! I hate it when my BF looks at other girls because it makes me feel inadequate, and I get jealous." Yes! There were a few, but the overwhelming majority never get jealous. This is where problems are created. If in the safety of his/her own mind, a person cannot afford themselves the right to acknowledge these NATURAL sensations, then they cannot give empathy to others. This is why so much judgement exists, and why we cannot admit to ourselves how we really feel. We fool ourselves into thinking we can make purely rational decisions. Not the case:

"The communication between your emotional and rational “brains” is the physical source of emotional intelligence. The pathway for emotional intelligence starts in the brain, at the spinal cord. Your primary senses enter here and must travel to the front of your brain before you can think rationally about your experience. However, first they travel through the limbic system, the place where emotions are generated. So, we have an emotional reaction to events before our rational mind is able to engage. Emotional intelligence requires effective communication between the rational and emotional centers of the brain."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbradberry/2014/01/09/emotional-intelligence/

I've said I'm with Nietzsche on his theory of human nature; this is why:

"For instance, Nietzsche denies that we can be rational deliberators in the way demanded by such philosophers as Kant. Kant sees us as choosing to act on the basis of reasons. Being the determinist he is, and taking the viewpoint on human nature he does, Nietzsche can have no truck with this. We are not for the most part conscious deliberators: rather, he tells us, “by far the greatest part of our spirit’s activity remains unconscious and unfelt.” (The Gay Science, p333.) Knobe and Leiter take the unusual step of seeing to what degree recent experimental findings in psychology support either Nietzsche or Kant. They have little difficulty in showing that Nietzsche is largely vindicated. For the most part we are not rational doers: the view that we choose our actions from a standpoint of deliberative detachment seems to be a Kantian myth. There appears to be no general accordance between our attitudes and beliefs, and our actions – in effect, we say one thing, but do another. Rather than acting for reasons, we tend to act, and invent reasons afterwards. In Nietzschean terms, the body acts, and, f illed as it is with “phantoms and will-o’-the-wisps,” the mind then falsely appropriates that action for its own justificatory purposes. Generally speaking, Nietzsche takes delight in showing us how we deceive ourselves."
http://philosophynow.org/issues/70/Nietzsche_and_Morality

"There appears to be no general accordance between our attitudes and beliefs, and our actions – in effect, we say one thing, but do another. Rather than acting for reasons, we tend to act, and invent reasons afterwards."

^ This part right here ^ in my opinion, based on the things I've read, is what drives AG insane!!! Lol. Unfortunately, this isn't something isolated to females and relationships. Lemme know if I'm wrong AG.

Since I'm addressing AG, I've been wanting to get your thoughts on this article:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergers-diary/200805/empathy-mindblindne ss-and-theory-mind

This was written by a woman with Aspergers. The author makes some observations that I've always wondered about. She says: (not going off subject here; this relates to empathy)

"So, here it comes - the "E" word - empathy. On the wall in one of my childhood classrooms was a copy of Norman Rockwell's painting, "The Golden Rule." I recall staring at those words, day after day as we lined up in the doorway - "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It sank in.

From a young age, I incorporated that axiom into my belief structure. But here's where the problem comes in - what I would want "done unto me" is entirely different than what another might want. Likewise, "Putting myself in the other person's shoes" would have me doing something very different than what another person might envision doing in a similar situation. So, the logic is faulty.

But - is a failure to fully grasp individual differences truly that unusual? If it were, then why do we have so many relationship self-help books such as "Men Are From Mars: Women Are from Venus (link is external)" or "The Five Love Languages (link is external)", to help us decode each others' signals and thought processes? If the population in general is so good at mind reading, why do people need so much coaching to meet each others' needs?

The reality of the matter is that all people are different in their needs, and even "normal" (or as we prefer to call them, neurotypical) people seem to struggle to comprehend all of these differences. So, where's the line between "normal" struggling, and "mindblindness?"

All this difficulty in understanding the thoughts and reactions of others lead many to say that people with autism or Asperger's lack empathy. But, is this really true? Is it really a lack of empathy, or a lack of understanding?"

She goes on to say:

"Zosia Zaks' article, "Myth: Autistic people lack empathy (link is external)", explores this question, using the movie "Rain Man" as an example. The typical interpretation of the movie has the autistic character, Raymond, doing things that could be characterized as lacking empathy. But Zaks' article turns this interpretation on its head, wondering if, perhaps, it's not Raymond who's lacking the empathy, but the non-autistic character, Charlie."

^ This is what I always thought even though I was really young when I first saw the movie. What do you think? I have a nephew who was never able to be diagnosed with Aspergers, but is highly suspected of having it. People treat him as if he's the one who need to be more understanding, but I think the same could be said for everyone else.

Continuing with the subject: empathy, as most people understand it, is based on "faulty" logic making it that much more difficult to exercise.

In order to be empathetic, people need to work on becoming emotionally intelligent. Here's what emotional intelligence is:

"Emotional intelligence is the ability to perceive emotions, to access and generate emotions so as to assist thought, to understand emotions and emotional knowledge, and to reflectively regulate emotions so as to promote emotional and intellectual growth."

"The Five Components of Emotional Intelligence

Self-awareness. The ability to recognize and understand personal moods and emotions and drives, as well as their effect on others. Hallmarks* of self-awareness include self-confidence, realistic self-assessment, and a self-deprecating sense of humor. Self-awareness depend on one's ability to monitor one's own emotion state and to correctly identify and name one's emotions.

[*A hallmark is a sure sign: since self-awareness is necessary for, say, realistic self-assessment, that is, without self-awareness no realistic self-assessment, the presence of of realistic self-assessment is a sure sign (sufficient to conclude that there is) self-awareness.]

Self-regulation.The ability to control or redirect disruptive impulses and moods, and the propensity to suspend judgment and to think before acting. Hallmarks include trustworthiness and integrity; comfort with ambiguity; and openness to change.

Internal motivation. A passion to work for internal reasons that go beyond money and status -which are external rewards, - such as an inner vision of what is important in life, a joy in doing something, curiosity in learning, a flow that comes with being immersed in an activity. A propensity to pursue goals with energy and persistence. Hallmarks include a strong drive to achieve, optimism even in the face of failure, and organizational commitment.

Empathy. The ability to understand the emotional makeup of other people. A skill in treating people according to their emotional reactions. Hallmarks include expertise in building and retaining talent, cross-cultural sensitivity, and service to clients and customers. (In an educational context, empathy is often thought to include, or lead to, sympathy, which implies concern, or care or a wish to soften negative emotions or experiences in others.) See also Mirror Neurons.
It is important to note that empathy does not necessarily imply compassion. Empathy can be 'used' for compassionate or cruel behavior. Serial killers who marry and kill many partners in a row tend to have great emphatic skills!

Social skills. Proficiency in managing relationships and building networks, and an ability to find common ground and build rapport. Hallmarks of social skills include effectiveness in leading change, persuasiveness, and expertise building and leading teams."

http://www.sonoma.edu/users/s/swijtink/teaching/philosophy_101/paper1/goleman.htm

***KEY POINT: naming emotions - yes, this involves all the character crushing ones like jealousy, anger, hate, depression, despair, shame, guilt...

Here's a pretty good break down on how to become emotionally intelligent.
http://m.wikihow.com/Develop-Emotional-Intelligence

posted July 30, 2015 05:27 AM            

2) Kids who grow up these days with little
parental guidance (ie regular meaningful & loving conversational feedback & guidance from parents )...
BUT..
who (eg These days) simultaneously absorb the NEGATIVE influences from ..eg today's awful TV programmes, PLUS nasty violent computer games etc...

- ARE very likely to lack empathy..

I read about a very interesting study, a while back..

Kids who regularly played computer games
VS Those who did not.

Demo :One by one, they were asked to come into a room to talk to an adult, ..meanwhile the adult "accidentally" spilled his jar of pens & pencils on the floor.
Result >> Those kids who regularly played computer games stood there and watched while he had to gather them all up
BUT
Those kids who didn't spend most of their time on computer games, actually helped him pick them up.

* * * *
A very SIGNIFICANT fact about Todays (very sick) Times
=
CHILD KILLERS! (Kids murdering other kids)- NEVER BEFORE!

posted July 30, 2015 05:52 AM            

>> NO.

I certainly do not subscribe to any "genetic" theories. (ie "academic" explanations.)

(ps Is this indirectly about your mother?)
I DO understand, if it is. My sister is also a "thorn" in my side. She definitely lacks empathy and has caused me a lot of pain.Of course not the same impact as a Mother has..but huge pain nevertheless)
(Sorry, just asking..)
Have you ever studied your mother's chart??

posted July 30, 2015 02:28 PM            

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posted July 30, 2015 02:53 PM            

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posted July 30, 2015 02:59 PM            

I do not think a person with a lovely Jupiter COULD have no empathy.

That would be my first consideration in this matter, Astrologically speaking, anyway.

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posted July 30, 2015 04:50 PM            

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posted July 31, 2015 04:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
If I had to think of Astrology aspects for this, I would think of a VERY troubled Jupiter.

I do not think a person with a lovely Jupiter COULD have no empathy.

That would be my first consideration in this matter, Astrologically speaking, anyway.

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Well, my Jupiter is very "troubled", Astro speaking
BUT
I have infinitely MORE empathy/understanding
than Most of todays Politicians,

posted July 31, 2015 07:34 AM            

Lost interest.

posted July 31, 2015 07:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I see people connecting afflicted Jupiter with sociopathy,psychopathy, lack of empathy etc. and I just don't see it. IMO Jupiter is one of those planets that is hard to bring down so to speak. Even when it's severely afflicted. I have Jupiter in leo opposing my sun and squaring my moon and I don't think I'm a sociopath or a monster lol. I'm a very giving person and I have a hard time saying no to people. I'm the type of person that will always give money or food to homeless people if I have anything to give. I think my generosity is a byproduct of those Jupiter aspects. On the dark side... I tend to overdue things. Whether it be eating too much, drinking too much, spending too much money etc. I also tend to be kind of irresponsible and live life by the seat of my pants and leaping before I look. I think these things are the negative side of my jupier playing out. I don't really see a connection with Jupiter and lack of empathy but that's just my opinion.

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posted July 31, 2015 07:42 AM            

Pretty much the only animal I see going it alone are sharks.

I believe you need a measure of empathy to consistently behave co-operatively and altruistically.

We know that babies who were nurtured through critical times of development, have more resilience, and therefore a greater capacity for empathy than those not. But I believe that anyone can develop empathy through knowledge and understanding of what it is to be human.

So, I think we are born with a tendency to gravitate toward that which promotes survival, and within nurturing conditions, that can support the development of that tendency into empathy.

posted July 31, 2015 08:24 AM            

A very troubled Jupiter would have to be combined with a very troubled Moon. If one was blessed with a good moon, so to speak, there would not be a lack of empathy imo

However, now that I think of it, a person I know who was a sociopath had every single planet but one making a hard aspect to Jupiter but his Moon was not bad lol

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posted July 31, 2015 12:58 PM            

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posted July 31, 2015 02:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I think that certain charts could never lack empathy. I think my chart is one, not to brag. I think the chart has to ALLOW for a lack of empathy. I remember IQ saying that some charts are borderline. IOW, if there was no abuse, the person would not lose empathy but with abuse, they would.

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posted July 31, 2015 03:11 PM            

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