posted December 11, 2004 05:53 PM         

Welcome LeoSweetHeart!

Your name suits you well. I'm glad you liked the info I posted and it made you feel better. Yes, I also believe we live in a sex-obsessed society. And frankly, it disturbs me. I'm not against sex at all. And I'm not claiming to be as pure as the white driven snow but I do think things have gotten out of hand.

I know the feeling about what you mentioned how females and males treat you. I dont know how old you are but I notice the same thing with my age group (moreso a few years ago though). Females would be really insecure and cold around me for no good reason. And yes - the males - only thinking about one thing. Do you know what I mean about animalistic? Like this low, dirty energy when they look at you. It's especially disturbing when it comes from older men. Ughh, that look, like hungry wolves that want to devour you. Or like panting dogs. It's gross. And then there's the whole female, 'Girls gone wild' kind of thing. It's suddenly cool for girls to be into other girls. Well, maybe not suddenly but I notice it more and more. And I've had females hit on me as well. I ususally feel kind of bad for them, or sad......it's like they've fallen into sick game that the media bombards us with. Not to say that some females arent attracted to other females - females are beautiful creatures - but I think a majority of females like this are doing it because it's "in" or something. I want to say, 'Youre not into chicks, your just brainwashed.' Do you know what I mean? Youre right it is everywhere and it is powerful. Indeed, you can feel like youre being sucked in. That is why it is so important to know yourself, really know who you are and what you want. Not what you are being brainwashed to be. And that takes alot of soul searching. Taking a long hard and honest look at yourself, but most importantly, loving and forgiving yourself.

I believe when you have one night stands and take part in promiscuous activities, you are lowering your vibration. When your mind is obsessed with lust and sex you are really doing damage to your subtle energy bodies. And it is so true that what you focus on, you become and you give more power to it. It snowballs into more and more of this kind of thinking and behavior.

You mentioned that some could say that your post showed your insecurities. I didnt sense that at all. I think it showed that you are seeing through the veil - the lies. And you are someone who is awake. Your eyes and mind are open to what is actually going on here. It is very easy to be affected by what the media projects. You feel you need to be perfect and look like a model or an actress. It's really too bad when you think about the affect this has on young women....and men! It affects them as well - their veiws on females.

All you can do is k-NOW yourself. Try not to let this affect you in a negative way. I dont know a whole lot about the Feminine Devine, per se, but I do feel that females today have swung too much to their masculine energy sides. There needs to be a balance in everything. The female needs to embrace her Divinity. Right now I think it is unbalanced. There is strenghth in the Feminine. I'm not saying females should revert back to earlier times, or be subservient to men. But the balance is off. It's unheathy to our inherent energies. I think as a whole, females are out of touch with their Divinity at this point. We've swung from one extreme to the other. From being repressed and supressed to being obsessed and out of control. It's sad.

Well, I hope you can relate to that. I just went off. LOL! I'm glad you made your post and youve joined our little web family. You can learn alot here. And this is quite possibly one of the friendliest message boards on the web. So dont be shy, you might offend others once in awhile, not even meaning to, but that happens sometimes. And from what it sounds like, I dont think you have to worry about doing that anyway. Look forward to sharing with you!

posted December 12, 2004 12:46 AM         

Wow 26taurus, that response made me so happy! I feel so invigorated after reading it, like someone else truly understands where I'm coming from! Yay! I called my fiancee and was like I love that 26taurus!!!! I love this site!! He hasn't seen me so happy in a while, hehee.

You have no idea many people I say those things to and they just don't get my point. The response is usually something like, "Thats the way the world is, its normal" or "thats just guys for you" etc Its like PLEASE WAKE UP! Why except such backward notions about guys and girls without considering why things are that way. And to me, it isn't hard to see just how influential the media really is. You can't turn on the TV, get the mail, or even go out into the world without being reminded of sex..and in unhealthy ways I might add. I am not against sex either..trust me, but it is hurting us all the way the media is using it to manipulate us. They are playing on our previously repressed (and for many women, still is) natural sexual desires and channeling them into marketing tools to sell everything from makeup to beer. They're teaching us that to enjoy sex, or even attention from guys, you have to be a gorgeous model and at the same time they are making us ladies feel insecure, they are telling guys to look for the wrong things in women and to treat us like objects not beautiful divine souls. When I see a guy look into my eyes as if he sees ME, I just want to cry because I don't see that very often. My boyfriend thinks I'm phsycho sometimes because I am young and attractive and I get attention from guys, so why am I complaining! Well maybe some of us girls don't like negetive attention and yet we're taught that we do want it to feel "worthy" as a woman..ahh! And maybe I don't like girls eyeing me up and down (sizing up their competition) and giving me dirty looks! I want to be seen for my inner beauty, really. Also as an (S)elf, I can't take credit for my looks and I don't want to be judged that way. Yes I am so with you on hating when guys act like dogs in heat around me...its like Hi, I'm Monica, would you like to get to know me before you picture me naked!!!!!! LOL And don't even get me started on the old guys! I am really thinking about joining an all girls gym for that very reason :P Wow I just went off too..it's okay we're passionate.

You hit the nail pretty much on the head when you guessed what I meant by the Feminine Divine. I just meant that we need to cultivate the beauty of the female essence and honor the values of VENUS in our culture. Yes we are living more on Mars right now :P lol It is all about balance! We need to bring the soul back into body and mind. You know what I mean?

Okay last topic, I know this is really long..Chapter 2....hahah
One Night Stands
I also feel its dangerous to MIX your energy with someone you hardly know and that I've only seen it lead to more of the same behavoir..feeling more acceptable everytime. Yet never fulfilling! It's like the more you see someone get shot on TV, the less disturbing it is, maybe even addictive for adrenaline reasons. And its sooo much better when your hearts in it! Don't ya think? I personally like the idea of trying tantric because its all about connecting spiritually. I've never tried it, my boyfriend seems to have intimacy of that sort a problem still. I'm still working my womanly charm on him, softening his edges hehe. Anyways I'm rambling again..so I'll save some for later :P And your right this is one of the friendliest websites around, the motto here seems to be "Let's all learn from each other and not harshly judge anyone else" I love that!
26taurus, you've made my day

Love and Peace to you,

Monica

posted December 12, 2004 05:19 PM         

Indeed, some women dont mind being ogled by men. Or men think that they should take it as a compliment or something. I just find it rude, and it aggrevates me to no end. Not all men are like this though, obviously. And oh I know, when I used to have a gym membership, the guys there I wanted to say, "Um yeah, hi. I'm here to work out, not looking for a date, K? Leave me alone." *gives guy dirty look* (only when theyre rude about it)

Anyway....I guess things could be worse. And I totally agree with "Chapter 2" of your post.

Oh, BTW you can see how to use the smilies when reply to a post, to your left click on "Smilies Legend" and you'll see a list of all the smilies. In my opinion you can never have enough smilies in a post (as you can tell). But FYI, you can only have 8 or your post wont work. (including the smilie in the header of your post)

Take a look around some of the other forums on this board. Alot of interesting stuff going on. Have you read any of Linda Goodman's books? Talk soon sweetheart!

posted December 12, 2004 08:13 PM         

I must say I think in my rambling, I forgot to add that I don't see all girls and guys that way, I just caught up making my frustrations. So I'm sorry if that came out wrong, I appreciate those who aren't like that

26taurus, Yes I've been all over this website and learning a lot! I'm starting to add my responses where I see fit, so you'll be seeing me in more strings to come hehe BTW you helped me get past my initial shyness here, so thanks for that. You were so sweet to me

I've read Sun Signs, (my first magical Linda book), parts of Love Signs (those relevant to me) And I just read Star Signs.. I ordered Gooberz a couple days ago, so thats next.. I can't wait! I see why people here feel such a connection to her, she was/is very special.

I better go, I have two finals tom! Talk to you soon k.

Love ya,

Monica

posted December 13, 2004 01:04 AM         

Especially not the way some men do it to women. I think it's rude and I dont like making people feel uncomfortable.

No double standard here.

quote:

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Definitions of ogle on the Web:
look at with amorous intentions ]www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

---

Sorry the issue goes deeper than just looking at people.

posted December 13, 2004 01:30 AM         

I think your "oggling" prob fits in the first category, right? I'm sure its pretty innocent, for the most part..but its prob not invasive and creepy, right? That is important distinction I should've made, sorry I sometimes don't explain all of the details, glad you asked. I just knew 26taurus knew right away which guy I was talking about. Also I was thinking another big factor that make me more vulnerable is being 21, college student and in San Diego, CA (a smaller version of LA culture). Also I've felt this more than ever the past year (but always have) because my own boyfriend, from Bolivia was guy # 2!! Ahh my worst nightmare!! Needless to say I have taught him a lot about women (the good and the not so good) and he can no longer objectify them. He says he had such a distorted view of them before because of his country, media and porn..he really did think of sex with girls he'd see in public on a regular basis (he said his father, uncles and friends are the same way, esp with white girls..hmm wonder why). He really brought out the activist in me, but I'm glad he did because it opened my eyes to all the subtle ways society makes things play out this way. In the book "The Beauty Myth", Virginia Woolf says "It is far more difficult to murder a phantom than a reality". This influence is subtle, yet stronger than most of us know.
Also my boyfriend said if he saw as many guys half naked and in sexual positions all over the place, he'd feel more self concious too and that his looks were more important. He hardly thinks about the way he looks, he takes it for granted that I just love him..I wish I had the same freedom, but he took that away from me somewhere along the way while staring at every passing female he saw. Thats why I said, this could be partly my insecurity with him, but hey isn't he is our "typical male"? What do you think about the other things I've mentioned about the way girls see themselves in the mirror (look at all the women dieting as opposed to men, why?) or the way some girls are uncomfortable with or you with them? I don't know how much this plays a part in your life or how old you are where you live, those make big differences, but do you at least see those things exist? What do you think about what I've said?

I know this can be passionate subject for me, so I don't want you to think I'm always so serious since it's my first post, but I can be a ball of joy too And I really do think thats neat how your a shy Leo too! Let's not let this issue be our first impressions of one another k. I'll be talking more often in other forums too, so you'll see my sunny side too Look forward to talking to you more..

Love and Peace,

posted December 13, 2004 08:10 AM         

Anyhow, in comment to the whole "bisexual popularity" yeah, I totally agree that it has plenty to do with society. However if someone of the same sex flirts with you, take it lightheartedly, sweetie. It only means that they're attracted to something special in you.
I've always been bisexual (if you will, I'm not even sure I can call it that) I see people as beautiful and a person's sex never mattered to me, I'm attracted to men and women both equally, however, because of particular circimstances I choose to be "straight" and not go the other route in risking falling in love with a woman which would probably be very easy for me to do.

Can anyone make any sense out of this?

posted December 13, 2004 02:05 PM         

Red, are you new too, I haven't seen very much of you? If so, we've got that in common, so we help make each other feel more at home here I can see that not everyone, in fact most girls just can't see what I mean here and thats fine..I'm soo glad it doesn't bother you girls How old are you girls anyway?

I personally don't think a guy is treating you like a woman at all when he is truly ogling you, I don't think he is actually seeing you, he's only seeing a facade. And think about what constitutes for beauty, his ideas of it and yours..if your view is realistic and healthy, wow! wonderful, but many peoples' is not and that hurts many women. I don't like being told whats beautiful in a woman by the media, TV, fake magazine images, music, etc. it makes it harder for me to see peoples' soul when I'm caught in that trap of superficialness (is that a word?) I love guys that subtly admire me, but are respectful enough not to stare and have more of a desire to get to know me than the desire to sleep with me instantly. Does that make sense? For instance when I was single and would go to the book store, I always fantasized about a guy peaking over my shoulder at my spiritual books and commenting about how he shares the same interest or something and admiringly that yes I'm beautiful, but I seem to be even more beautiful on the inside! I would just like my inner radiance to count for most of his attraction, thats real love. I think if you get too caught up in the exterior you aren't seeing whats important, a person's real beauty You see a veil, just like the material world is a veil to the spiritual..same thing. I may seem old fashioned here, but I am just seeing so much judgement placed on the way people look, and not enough on the heart..esp being in San Diego. I'm seeing more guys really see girls, women as objects in my generation..theres been a drastic increase in one night stands, infedility and more importantly Rape! These are some of the very real and dangerous side effects of seeing woman in just a sexual way, which many sheltered/ and or oppressed men do. Of course this does not get so bad for most people, but depending on your upbringing, how social you are, how much TV or porn you watch, this sexual obsession can permiate in all areas of your life (miss apples). I am also refering to the horrific affects its having on women ie: eating disorders, obsession with plastic surgery, fear of aging, having to wonder if your boyfriend or husband will ever be weak or tempted with a "beautiful" femme fatal girl, getting less sexual enjoyment when your boobs aren't big enough or butts too big, etc. etc etc etc! In my generation, Los Vegas and Rap music are Cool, so we are being taught to idolize Barbie girls that walk around in a miniskirt and high heels all the time and might as well have Screw Me on their forehead. Why are you much more ogled when you wear a bikini then when you wear normal clothes, are you any less of a woman in jeans, No. Also when my boyfriend enjoys my gorgeous, womanly body..ahh I love it because I know he isn't seperating me from my body, but a perfect stranger doesn't know me and that should come first in my opinion. I would expect no less from my boyfriend than seeing my body as sacred and using it as a way to pleasure me, but you know what he loves it just the way it is and he feels my presence in my body. A stranger will not love every freckle, every scar story, he is looking at this predetermined beauty standard in me..and he does not feel my presence...he is ignoring and devaluing my presence...my real womanly essence. What do you think about these thoughts? I love to hear what other girls think about this..

I hope that touched some of you, but if not, I will not keep pushing my views on you..I know when to back off..

posted December 13, 2004 02:32 PM         

Okay okay, I'm going to discipline myself not to say anymore on the subject unless its wanted promise...I will visit other sites and mingle with you before I debate more, hehe..

posted December 13, 2004 02:50 PM         

I understand why you steer clear of acting on your bi-sexual impulses because even though its accepted, its still not quite norm..so you would prob have trouble with friends and family and outsiders. Is that why you are afraid of it? I believe that you are attracted to women, we are beautiful creatures, so I don't think it's strange to admire that beauty (not ogle it hehe..had to add that in ) Maybe you just have learned to see the real beauty in all people and feel a pull towards both sexes because you know we are all one. I don't know, just a few thoughts..since you asked. What do you think?

posted December 13, 2004 03:01 PM         

It wasnt that I thought you misspelled. It was that you wrote oogle in quotations when the word is ogle and that's what I wrote. So, I thought you werent familiar with the word. And if I remember correctly, your original post said you "see a double standard here ladies". Meaning Monica and I. Just wanted to clear up that I dont do what you were saying we did. Sure, I can appreciate a beautiful men and women, but I go about my appreciation in a different way. Different, not better. Everyone is different, I just dont appreciate being looked at like a piece of meat. There is a way to appreciate someone's beauty politely. I'm talking more about the people who dont. And red, it doesnt have anything to do with the person who is doing it being attractive or not. I dont discriminate. Some people like their ego's stroked in that way I dont. No big deal. I'm not saying my feelings on it are better, they're just mine.

Marcia,

I totally understand what you are saying about the bisexuality thing. I do take it as a compliment in a way. But I still see it for what it is with some of these people.

And LOL! My Taurusness came out!! I guess guess it did. I'm tending to think it could be my Virgo moon shining through. Or my inner bi@tch side (we all have one ). One or the other. LOL

posted December 13, 2004 03:29 PM         

Hey there 26taurus

posted December 13, 2004 03:32 PM         

leosweets, i used to be rebellious of that fact, of what i considered to be superfcial. but the truth is i woke upp and i realised that i do want to look pretty and smell nice and have clean hair AND i am also attracted to the more meaningful things in life (my scorpio moon, i guess)
the fact is that most women, and men too,do not want to be told they are ugly, smelly or anything of that nature.

i certainly do not thnik that it is mutually exclusive to be be beautiful and be a person with something to offer

i have a friend who is a self-professed barbie. she likes her hair blonde-blonde, likes her bosoms heaving in gucci corstets..is a maths genius and has self-worth like nobody i know. she is also an amzing friend much better than ones i have had in the past who have not been oogled

she, like myself, doesnt need any validation that she is a woman of substance.

the truth is i have encountered a lot of women, especially at my age, who are intrinsically insecure in themselves and so they project that sh*t unto you, like you have to be dowdy or basically unattractive as f*ck before you are considered a decent woman.

you see that time and time again with women. if a woman is good-looking you can damn well be sure she will have a derogatory comment thrown her way even before the pretty lady opens her mouth.

hear me roar
hehe

its just something i have experienced time and time again

posted December 13, 2004 03:42 PM         

its just that whatever comments i get on my looks, my clothes whatever rolls off my back, because i am secure enough in myself.

i have always believed if somebody can make you happy, then they can make you unhappy. so if i do not get a look, or a compliment on a particular day, then so be it.

posted December 13, 2004 03:43 PM         

BTW, WELCOME red!!

posted December 13, 2004 03:46 PM         

its nice to come in on a day when the buzzword is ogle