posted November 23, 2008 11:38 AM         

quote:

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Harmony is indeed Glorious
Or is it Unity?

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More like Synastry.

And, yes,
it keeps us on our toes.

posted November 23, 2008 11:49 AM         

I would respectfully disagree .

Harmony may be loosely defined as such but Unity is greater than the human approach of understanding and organizing,yes?

juni

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~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted November 23, 2008 12:04 PM         

The way God organizes our lives, I guess.

With or without our approval.

And that order to Him may even be chaos to us.

But, then, it just is what it is.

No more, no less.

I wouldnt call it harmony or unity, or any flowery term.

Its just synastry, pure and simple.

At least, that's my point of view.

And you know I'm always happy to share it.

posted November 23, 2008 03:20 PM         

Yes, you are here now. You came back, after I called you out. But the post I was replying to went something like this: "You're right, HSC. I'm just so completely wrong and you're absolutely correct. My math sucks and my ability to appreciate you're compassionate wisdom isn't much better. I'll try harder next time." Thats what I mean by abandoning the discussion. I made rational points, and you pulled the usual disappearing act, pretending you were merely under attack from my runaway ego.

HSC, if I decide to abandon the thread, I'll no longer post. I didn't do that. I posted. You responded and, miracle of miracles, we're both still here.

Again, refering to the last thing you said, where you finally clarified your position, and not to what was said before that. If you would state your position clearly in the first place, instead of encouraging people's assumptions, we could save a lot of time. Now, the only thing I disagree with is why you think someone is fanatical to raise their voice and debate in the name of animal rights. And that is what your position boils down to, at least, as you've portrayed it thus far.

No, it's not my position. Generally, I don't feel the need to hand out detailed reports of my every thought and feeling. But if you're unclear about something I've said or would like me to describe in more detail my position, then ask. It's so simple. Makes a lot more sense then jumping to conclusions too.

I guess I'll have to take your word for it, despite the fact that this phrase jumped out at another knowflake when she read it, and she also assumed it was a reference to me. I guess we are both paranoid. In any case, I'd say the ambiguity worked out very conveniently for you. How silly of me to think that would be directed at me. I wonder how many other silly, paranoid people read it and made the same mistake.

Yes, you could take my word for it. Or you could bypass the sarcasm and come right out and call me liar.
And which knowflake would that be btw? The one that assumed my "when I was a fanatical vegetarian" comment was a condemantion of any and all vegetarians the world over? That one?

I'm honest enough to admit that it bothers me still, yes. Scorpios tend to hold on to stuff like that, you know? And when I see the irony between your comments then and your comments now, yes, I will bring it up if I think it helps illuminate your hippocrisy. I dont think I've received an apology on that yet, so, I'd say its still fair game. And dont tell me that you have not brought up stuff I've said or done months ago. The "rain on your psychedelic parade" was a while back, but you've made comments about the smoking fairly recently, and I see no reason to think you have resolved to keep them to yourself in the near future. Have you? So, again, fair game.

Again, I'll have to take your word for it, that your primary motive was innocent, despite the sarcastic, judgemental tone of your comments at the time. And, yes, I am attached, as I am to most topics of concern to me, and as you are to most topics of concern to you. God willing, we can still practice some degree of objectivity. You call upon whatever it is you have in your chart, and I'll call upon my Uranian stellium, my Aquarius Moon, Aquarius 1st house, Sun and Moon parallel Uranus, and lack of planets in the personal houses (1 -6; the only planet there is the Aqua Moon), and see if I can muster a little objectivity for you, okay? And just because I am passionate doesnt mean my thinking is distorted on the issue of psychedelics. I happen to be in very good company, as the above quote ought to show.

Where did I make this recent comment?

Why did the original thread bother you so much?

Thank you for the Ram Dass quote. You can throw a few quotes at me and I can do the same for you, if being "in good company" matters so very much, but it's clear we're both adament, so what's the point?

I'm sure I've mentioned several times that the astrological resume doesn't work with me. You're speaking a foreign language. Are you speaking to me or to a perceived audience or are you consoling yourself?

When did I tell you to go to hell?

You didn't use that exact phrase. I was summing things up. Basically, I told you drugs were stupid and dangerous and you told me to f*ck off and I said fine, abandoned the thread and that was that. Or so I thought.

What are you, some kind of saint? Everyone I know experiences both sympathies and antipathies with people outside of their direct, personal space. There is nothing sick about this, and I refuse to believe that you dont experience those feelings, whether you believe it yourself or not, and whether or not you call them "personal". You've made rude and emotional remarks to me on numerous occassions, and, whether or not this signifies something "personal" to you, it certainly does to me. And I think anyone else who is the target of it must feel similarly. If you can say some of the things you've said, you could probably write a post like that just to mess with someone. And, anyway, can you fault me for being suspicious of your sincerity? I mean, I just find it difficult to think of Mannu that way, and I doubt anyone other than yourself finds it much easier.

No, not a saint. Of course we experience natural antipathies and sympathies. They say more about ourselves than the object or person in question, don't they? I wouldn't describe this as a personal like or dislike.
Yes, you've absolutely said things which momentarily p*ssed me off. That doesn't mean I hate you or even really dislike you. Not everything is personal.

posted November 23, 2008 03:32 PM         

No, not a "sick person". This is my point right there. You're jumping from point A to point C. LTT might say something I disagree with theoretically or even something that I think is rude or mean, maybe it even makes me angry but that does not mean I hate her or I think she's a biitch. I can't make that leap. I can't go from "I disagree with you" or even "I think what you did was wrong" all the way to "I dislike you".

(for the record, LTT, if you're reading this, I can't offhand think of a post where I thought you were horribly mean. I'm just trying to make a point.)

Oh, please. Our tactics are utterly different, and the tactics you try to emulate are what you see as refined, etc., while you have only criticisms for my own approach. And those dozen people.. is their style anything like mine, or do they tend to stick to those terse, impersonal little ironic nibbles you are so fond of? I have no doubt that this is what you deem "refined, etc." Honestly, TINK, I dont know what ever gave me the idea that you looked down on me. Maybe it was when you told me I was "just an unwitting piece of sandpaper for [your] nafs"?

Of course our tactics are different. We're different people. This is cause for angst?

You liked the sandpaper comment, did you? I thought you'd get a laugh out of that.

Are the tactics of the people I've run into here that caused me to respect and admire their emotional and spiritual insight and/or "togetherness", for lack of a better word that you won't find offensive, similar to yours ... hmmmm, that's a good question. I'm not sure what you would consider similiar. Daf? Probably. Juni? Probably not. She's a heartless biitch like me, right? Trillian? Fishkitten? Don't know. Meili, Petron? Not sure about those either. Eleanore? You give her a hard time, but I don't think she's "terse". 26taurus? You've given her a hard time too, but then seem to think twice and back off. Nosis? He's quiet, but not really given to those "impersonal little ironic nibbles". Ra? Azelzion? I don't know if you remember pegesus or loonyfish.

So, there's your baker's dozen. There's more I'm sure, but they happened to come to mind. You can crticize them or me or both now.

LOL. Okay, TINK. So which is it? Am I insecure, or completely full of myself? Yes, I must be insecure, to imagine that you might think yourself more evolved than me, despite the fact that you are always criticizing me and talking about who is more evolved, skilled, refined, etc. than whom.

You've said a few times that your arrogance is a means of balancing a deep sense of insecurity and self-loathing. You've exhibited both extremes here.
I'm not always criticising you. I've complimented you many times. Are you confusing me with your mother?
I don't spend my days comparing myself to others. I'm too self-centered for that.

You seem to think wandering poets are just confused and ruled by their passions, while "evolved people" are fairly reserved, tight-lipped, and eager to observe Lent. Everything you say to me exhibits your conviction that my lifestyle is unskilled, and that unskilled equals unevolved. Tell me, do you ever just admit to anything?

wandering poets? where? When did I talk about wandering poets?
That Lent comment is part of the reason I deleted the UC post.

Well, it would be nice to see your guts, just once. Shows you have some.

Why would it be nice? Why is this so important to you? I don't need you to like me, HSC. Why do you need me to like you?

posted November 23, 2008 03:43 PM         

If you feel the need to share everything with everyone, then I say again, I have no argument with that. It doesn't offend me. Please do. But why do you feel the need to say your way is always better than my way?
I mean really - Vehemence? You felt vehement because I don't share enough with you?
Fine. I just think that the little comments you leave behind look like lumps in the rug. When I saw that post, I thought, "oh, wow, spring cleaning", but, nope... back under the rug. I dunno.. I dont really see it that way.. I'm unsure of how I see it. Like I said, that stuff is hard for me to understand. But, I honestly did like what you wrote, and didnt have anything but nice comments for you.

If I had known I'd get more flack for deleting it than writing it, I'd have left the damn thing.

posted November 23, 2008 03:51 PM         

Yes, I certainly think that's a fair statement.

HSC, I'm sorry you think I hate you. I'm sorry you think I feel you're somehow unevolved or less than me. I'm sorry you're so bothered and upset by all this. I've tried to help you work this out here and elsewhere and explain just a little the supposed great mystery that is me, but I think this is as far as I can go. This is just too negative.

I mentioned several months ago - uncharacteristically - that my husband very nearly died from a brain hemorrhage last year. But he didn't. And although we're by no means out of the woods yet, because of this great and undeserved mercy granted to me and because of my beautiful, just turned two year old son and a sister that I love and several good and wise friends and a teacher that I trust and basically a wonderfully good life ... well, because of all that I'm just too lucky, too happy, too full of thank you after thank you after thank you, I'm just too blessed for anymore of this negativity. It's not worth it to me. I've come to think of it as somehow essentially blasphemous.
You can go ahead and say something nasty about my husband or my Teacher or my son again if you'd like, and you know what? That's ok. I might seriously consider if I did something to deserve it, I might think you're rude, I might think you're having a bad day, I might think you have some issues you need to deal with, none of which really has anything to do with me. But it won't bother me, HSC. It really won't.

posted November 23, 2008 09:51 PM         

quote:

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While I haven't yet achieved psychopath status, I'm also many light years away from being truly compassionate. And yet, I'm a vegetarian. *shrugs* However that fits into the equation.

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I hear you. I realize you are a vegetarian. One that does not seem to speak up for the benefits of vegetarianism, instead, constantly approaches it with much skepticism, cynicism and hostility. You sarcastically implied the enlightened state to be "the psychopath status", while admitting that you are many light years away from being truly compassionate. That makes you an uncompassionate vegetarian. What motivates you to stick to a vegetarian diet? How would you define yourself, then? Obviously you've admitted you are not compassionate. What are you like, then? To me, you are aggressive, confrontational, sarcastic, and self-contradictory.

quote:

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I think the idea that a vegetarian diet can somehow lead to a spiritual awakening is silly. It's been my observation that, more often than not, as we refine ourselves we then naturally feel best avoiding meat.

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That is a valid point. However, you were once again implying the act of promoting vegetarianism is "silly"- silly is not appropriate, which is very derogatory; naive would be better.

quote:

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Maybe the real danger is creating mental blocks and taboos in the pysche. When I was a fanatical vegetarian, I accidentally ate something with a very small amount of meat in it. Oh the heartbreak that ensued! I cried, I was nauseous, I fasted in penance. Absolutely absurd. If the vegan diet had any positive effect on my spiritual growth the fanaticism, not to mention self righteousness, most certainly negated it.

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quote:

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Yes, of course, not all are fanatics. I was. You'll notice I said "I". All cleared up I hope.

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quote:

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Yes, you could take my word for it. Or you could bypass the sarcasm and come right out and call me liar.
And which knowflake would that be btw? The one that assumed my "when I was a fanatical vegetarian" comment was a condemantion of any and all vegetarians the world over? That one?

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You sounded as though I did upset you by the way I put it in my reply. Nonetheless, you apparently used your own personal experience to suggest that veganism does not much good to anyone attempting to adopt it. You seemed to always speak up against the benefits brought by vegetarianism rather than advocating it in a balanced, non-self-righteous way. By the way, I don't think HSC has been fanatical or self-righteous. He simply has stood up, made solid points, and provided useful information.

quote:

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HSC, I'm a serious sort of person. I take the most menial, trivial shiit seriously.

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quote:

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not every observation that I make is directed towards you. Some remarks are general and theoretical.

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quote:

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So, have a hamburger, Stephen. It's ok.

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This remark shows how self-contradictory you are, TINK. It was meant to be a joke, I suppose, but the matter being discussed was not something to be joked about. You are a vegetarian and yet you said something like that to HSC- telling him it's "ok" to have a hamburger. Do comments like this make you a "serious person" and is a remark like this a "general and theoretical one"?

quote:

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What I'm questioning is the proposition that a meat free diet alone will open your chakras and help you ascend the Mountain, so to speak. I'm also questioning whether abstaining from meat is always a righteous choice. Very often it is a self aggrandizing choice, clothed in nobility and compassion. Again, I don't deny it may assist spiritual development.

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quote:

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Lovely I think that's very often how it works. Not always of course. I have met people who became vegetarians for the worst reasons - arrogance, pride, an insatiable need to contradict etc.

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You are a vegetarian, yet you present yourself as a skeptic and always gravitate toward the negative potential of vegetarianism. That's off balance.

quote:

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How have I abandoned the discussion? I'm right here. I'm not sure what "take it backwards" might mean, so I can't respond to that.

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quote:

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You're right, HSC. I'm just so completely wrong and you're absolutely correct. My math sucks and my ability to appreciate you're compassionate wisdom isn't much better. I'll try harder next time.

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This is how you abandoned the discussion. No by stopping posting on this thread, but by being irresponsible for what you say, and being sarcastic, and passive-aggressive.

quote:

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Well, gee, that's decent of you, isn't it? Are you serious? You got me there, bud. I don't know what the hell to say to that. You're pretty emotional about this it seems .... I'm not faulting you for that, I'm just not sure what to make of it. I'm a little taken aback. So I'll just let that sit and speak for itself.

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HSC has been more logical than emotional on the subject matter here. YOU are the one who's being emotional and offensive. Not to mention confused. I don't mean to upset you once again, because I would not devote so much time and energy like HSC has, to argue with you, TINK- interacting with you seems always like walking on a field of landmines.

D

posted November 24, 2008 09:00 AM         

That's exactly the sort of bar fight I said I wasn't interested in joining. I even explained to you why - pulled my little heart out onto my sleeve and everything.
And you still wonder why I'm saying thanks, but no thanks?

posted November 24, 2008 11:35 PM         

Being vegetarian is not about being perfect or pure- it's about reducing suffering as much as possible.

Eliminating flesh and other animal products is not a sacrifice; instead, becoming vegetarian opens a door to a path full of a variety of nourishing and delicious food choices, and a refreshing (however you may define it) outlook on life.

posted November 25, 2008 10:21 AM         

>>>>Lastly, I think it is funny how you commend Mannu on "thinking outside the box",
while, at the same time, constantly giving me sh-t for same.

That was in the GU forum HSC - you know you are a mutt when it comes to politics don't you? Not even knowing if US was a democrat or republic.

quote:

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Especially when his ideas, like the Gandhi thing, come from Osho,
or, are just so totally off the wall that only a nut would take them seriously.
but you hop to applaud him, and scurry to overlook these faults,
while, again, taking every opportunity to call me out on anything remotely assertive.
I think you probably only said that to him in order to **** off LTT,
who you dislike personally, and also myself, as well.
You dont even realize how transparent so many of your slights are.

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HSC - You should know that I grew up in India where as children we would joke about Gandhi and his woman acquaintances. We would often wish we had women for our own props one on each side LOL. You must be nuts to call nuts white folks who make fun of MLK. And that article I listed is not from Osho. So you see your assertions talks more about your thinking than my refusal to accept things that you have to say. And how dare you take my individuality away - LOL? I could think for myself and I do not take drugs that is known to distort thinking ability and slowly kill the brain.

I even listed my natal charts showing mars and mercury placement. Am I not allowed to be in harmony with the potential that I have? What is wrong if someone appreciates me. She said she does not agree with all I have to say didn't she? If you remember I mentioned about west meeting the east. It is happening now. They remained distinct too long without knowing what each other was doing. It was good before and even it will be good while it is happening. Out of the box could be eastern wisdom not recognized in the west. In hindu astrology the charts of masters shows prominent east placement as they believe wisdom dawns from the east. Call it coincidence that even the sun rises in the east. Also note I myself have learnt a lot from the west -- the equality ,the fun nature, the unity , the freedom etc.

Just take what you need and leave the rest. Why do we fret so much over our opinions and likings?

>>>>His arrogance, rudeness, bluntness, and bullsh-t put my own to shame,
Calling someones opinion idiot is not rude or arrogant. And I think bluntness should be rewarded. What have people to lose but their fragile ego. BTW I don't complain why you tolerate UG Krishnamurti's arrogance better than mine LOL.

>>>I think you probably only said that to him in order to **** off LTT,
who you dislike personally, and also myself, as well.

I too do not like the conspiracy theories of LTT. It seems to be their national pastime these days to talk about them. I still read her posts for entertainment. And I myself post quite a few gossips that I think is entertaining. So if any one is serious get over it please.

posted November 26, 2008 03:58 PM         

If I was hurt I would have said so or shown it thru right emoticons on the post.

If you didn't notice -- I try to live naturally these days-- when angry , become angry but not of a child who responds foolishly (and therefore in ignorance) when angry. But more like a sage who shows anger but in total awarenss.

Take care of your health.

I think we all would do ok if none of us took us personally. I know it is very difficult to get it out of the chest. But try it. If angry --relieve it. If sad and feel like crying -- cry . do not fear that men shouldn't cry.

I feel like I am lecturing but I thought it was imporant for you to know.

I believe Osho didn't take drugs. He may have taken nitrous oxide to relieve his bodily pain. If science discovers a cure for one's ailment, won't he try it? Material world is not bad. And it doesn't make one a weasle if he takes medicines.

posted November 26, 2008 05:34 PM         

Didn't Jesus say it is easier for a camel to go thru a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom.

Not just rich man and it should not be used to condemn rich men. He was just making a case on how difficult it is. Yes it may sound contradictory because if a camel can enter thru the needle then why not the man.
A camel is in tune with nature and when they die still at the hands of cosmos. A man is different beast - he is what he thinks. And mostly he associates with his belongings and knowledge and what not. This may happen for several lifes.