posted July 23, 2014 09:06 AM            

Bella, I'll be replying to your post soon

Rie, it was only a matter of time before VM got banned, because she is constantly negative (I honestly don't remember one completely positive post of hers) and uses foul language. Consistently. To me, that's the classic definition of a troll.

quote:

---

Obviously that's all too late now, but what exactly did she say before a couple of people there got angry?

---

When I re-read the Cap thread, I think it was her comment to Bella:

quote:

---

How dare u name jesus and put a crucifix in your post. Im not a Catholic or Christian. Who are u to talk to me about your religion. As if i care. Dont u ever dare force your bible views on me again.

---

And then when Bella explained about the crucifix, VM came back with "Shut up!" That was the breaking point where things got nasty. It's hard to classify, but before that it was light jabs and eye rolling. After that, it escalated.

posted July 23, 2014 10:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
Hey you both! Bella especially - I see we 're born in the same year!! And you're a Cappy Rising, even - my favourite Ascendant! Faith, your chart ruler's in Cap, same vibe ^^ don't worry, I would never leave you out.

But I do want to say something on that thread that now got closed. *sigh* I really wanted to say something on it but it got out of hand again and there you go. Well... I think people were too hard on VM. Obviously that's all too late now, but what exactly did she say before a couple of people there got angry? She called us boring and stuck-up... I don't know, I tried to talk more politely and give her an opening (but as usual I'm waaay too subtle about that).

The way some reacted really shocked me. I had expected better, honestly. I'm shocked too that aside from Firepal, nobody said this. Yeah, VM's reaction was awful and showed her negative attitude as well - what she said definitely crossed the line and broke the board rules. It's fair the thread was locked. But she did get quite some flack herself, just for complaining about Cappies. And I'm not just saying that, I have a Cap Moon, Saturn conjunct it and on the IC, Saturn tightly square my Ascendant and trine Mars... and yet I wasn't that offended. Maybe because I've seen these complaints before. I don't know. I just got the sense she's had some really bad experiences with some Caps and complained about them when she got the chance. So many other members have done this, so I just can't really feel offended.

I don't mean to take any shots at you both here (Faith, you get what I mean, right?), this just bothered me. It could've been a good discussion if VM had been ignored or talked to more calmly at first.

Sorry, I've been wanting to say hi here and I guess here's a weird way in. I think you guys handled it best from the number of people who attacked her. And you two are the Cappies that were complained about.

I'm thinking of talking to Randall about this, to be honest. It really doesn't sit well with me. I don't know, I just don't like seeing someone get flack from a whole group, making it hard for them to defend themselves. Even if they may have given it an opening by complaining like that.

If either of you would like to continue this in private, of course you can. Faith, you know my email and I can give it to you, Bella, if you'd like. If you feel like I'm polluting your thread, feel free to say so and I'd be happy to take it to email. And then I'll edit this all out for you guys of course.

Just... yeah. It really bothered me. What do you guys think?

---

Why are you always so quick to dump on me and Barbie, Hmmmm?
You do it every chance you get. Yes, I know you're being cryptic, but stop it. I know the deal. You always do it.

Go look, I corrected her astrology and she got nasty, calling me "Mr. Astrologer" meant as an insult and all but calling me stupid... For politely correcting how the Dsc works. Which I learned from lotus white, so I think it's "good" information.
I shouldn't catch ANY flak for helping out.
You can't just say, "oh everyone was nasty".

Who provoked? Vm
Who threw the first punch? VM
Who eye gouged first? VM

We've been on good behavior recently. She is consistently vulgar.

If you want to talk to Randall I want to talk to him too, though I suspect that you won't get very far. lol Just have a hunch. Haha I'm not going to let you swindle him with nonsense because you're jealous/hurting and tired of seeing us on the board.
We're going to have problems if you keep this up.

Email of you want. I'm pretty p'd off right now.
I'm getting tired of you doing this. Randall saw the thread. If there was a problem I think he would have said so.
I'm pretty angry at you right now and Randall knows the situation with us. I'll fill him in the rest if he wants because I'm not letting you backstab us because you have a personal problem.

I'm not going to ruin this thread any longer. If you want to talk, write me. I just had to respond because NOW, I'm angry. Very angry.
Last night was not angry. Just having fun and it was a little irritating like a mosquito.

If you go to Randall about us, I want to tell our side.

Up until now, I've tried to be understanding and sympathetic as I felt that I could be. But now, zero.
You've shown me that you don't deserve any.
If this is how you repay it.

posted July 23, 2014 10:43 AM            

I hadn't been coming here but something in my head told me to.
I'll mosey on.

posted July 23, 2014 11:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
Hey you both! Bella especially - I see we 're born in the same year!! And you're a Cappy Rising, even - my favourite Ascendant! Faith, your chart ruler's in Cap, same vibe ^^ don't worry, I would never leave you out.

But I do want to say something on that thread that now got closed. *sigh* I really wanted to say something on it but it got out of hand again and there you go. Well... I think people were too hard on VM. Obviously that's all too late now, but what exactly did she say before a couple of people there got angry? She called us boring and stuck-up... I don't know, I tried to talk more politely and give her an opening (but as usual I'm waaay too subtle about that).

The way some reacted really shocked me. I had expected better, honestly. I'm shocked too that aside from Firepal, nobody said this. Yeah, VM's reaction was awful and showed her negative attitude as well - what she said definitely crossed the line and broke the board rules. It's fair the thread was locked. But she did get quite some flack herself, just for complaining about Cappies. And I'm not just saying that, I have a Cap Moon, Saturn conjunct it and on the IC, Saturn tightly square my Ascendant and trine Mars... and yet I wasn't that offended. Maybe because I've seen these complaints before. I don't know. I just got the sense she's had some really bad experiences with some Caps and complained about them when she got the chance. So many other members have done this, so I just can't really feel offended.

I don't mean to take any shots at you both here (Faith, you get what I mean, right?), this just bothered me. It could've been a good discussion if VM had been ignored or talked to more calmly at first.

Sorry, I've been wanting to say hi here and I guess here's a weird way in. I think you guys handled it best from the number of people who attacked her. And you two are the Cappies that were complained about.

I'm thinking of talking to Randall about this, to be honest. It really doesn't sit well with me. I don't know, I just don't like seeing someone get flack from a whole group, making it hard for them to defend themselves. Even if they may have given it an opening by complaining like that.

If either of you would like to continue this in private, of course you can. Faith, you know my email and I can give it to you, Bella, if you'd like. If you feel like I'm polluting your thread, feel free to say so and I'd be happy to take it to email. And then I'll edit this all out for you guys of course.

Just... yeah. It really bothered me. What do you guys think?

---

I know that it really bothers me, makes my blood boil when you who's never around EVER, aside from clearly snooping around, never says anything while the bicker wars are going on EVER always has some smartass remark to say about them after they've been over or settled, and never have the full facts about the situation. Mind your own business, what we do isn't of your concern. You continue to validate my point about you. I don't care if you are hurting and are sick of seeing us on the board, well you better get used to because we aren't going anywhere. Time to put those big girl panties on. Who are you to judge me or my motives? I was never upset or even bothered until now so thanks Meissieri. This is why I ignored your email, this is why I DO NOT like you or care for you. You continue the drama.

I am so sick of this crap, sick of your jealousy and insecurity. Stop creating more drama or an excuse to talk to him because I know you want to badly, and you knew that he'd comment. I'm sorry that you're hurt about it but DeepFreeze is my husband, you really need to get that in your head.

I'm not going anywhere

posted July 23, 2014 11:55 AM            

You two could have toned it down and taken the high road. I wish you would have. It would have only reflected positively on you and preserved the happy atmosphere of this thread.

Rie has the same trouble I had when I first joined. She is hoping for better moderation, to limit how much one is able to get away with saying. It bothers her when anyone comes under fire.

Contrary to what you are supposing, Rie isn't just singling you out for complaints. For example, she has kindly but directly asked me over email to tone it down when I am confronting someone, and expressed sadness about the way others are handling things, too. It's not just you, it's the tension in general.

It might not seem like she is trying to establish peace when, on this thread, she opened a new can of worms. Honestly, I don't think she realized how this would play out, and wasn't "asking for" this reaction. Have some mercy. Again, I don't see her singling you two out because she has a history with you...I see her having a hard time with tension everywhere she encounters it. You two happen to be quite mouthy (like me) when you are fired up, and that's why she is more frequently tangling with you.

Please keep that in mind and refrain from deeply personal attacks. It would be greatly appreciated.

posted July 23, 2014 12:00 PM            

DF and Barbie aren't attacking anyone here, since when is responding to incorrect allegations attacks? It's drama filled Meissieri at it once again as per usual. A fight is over and yet can never be dropped. She has to slither in her concerns or thoughts because they're the law here!..

posted July 23, 2014 12:30 PM            

I think everyone on here has.

There will always a person out there harassing you, everywhere you go, on line and off line.

The key is to find the personal strength to do what is wise.

In this case, Barbie, if she is throwing hidden darts, ignore because they are too hidden to be seen and you will just be driving yourself crazy.

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posted July 23, 2014 12:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
I'm crying now I'm so upset by this. I always try to be the bigger and better person but there are always those few that drive me insane, uncontrollable that I have to say something. I'm sorry and that's all I can do right now, at the end of the day myself and hubby are all that matters. I don't care what anyone thinks of me quite frankly and will forever defend myself when I need defending.

Have a great day ladies.

---

I understand

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posted July 23, 2014 12:58 PM            

You're my friend, and I have a ton of respect for you, but this was not a good place to air your concerns. There's nothing that either Bella or I could have done about what transpired...there's nothing we could have said to "fix" anything.

posted July 23, 2014 01:25 PM            

I'm gone a second and BOOM dynamite.

I originally had a response to Meiss, but I do not want to post it given the direction of the thread. I will say in short that I respectfully disagree with your decision to discuss the Cap thread randomly in here, as I do not feel your intentions were 100% honorable.

That being said, this is a get to know you thread and I want to keep it this way. Meiss, feel free to tell me a little bit about yourself. You clearly care about the well being of others through your empathy and are pretty cool from what I have seen. This is what I am interested in getting to know, not a rehash of the situation between you, DF, and Barbie. That is between you guys- Faith and I have no business being in it.

From now on, I do not want to discuss fights or tension from other situations, as it is not related at all to this thread.

posted July 23, 2014 07:33 PM            

Faith is right, she picked it up right away and knows this is a personal issue of mine. I've talked about it on several threads, so it's not like it's unknown that endless fights, especially with one person getting a lot of flack from several people at once, bothers me a lot. I felt sick seeing how quickly the Cap thread turned into a fight.

Good point about the cross remark, though, Faith, yes, I agree that was what set it off. But even before I saw a few mocking comments at her and I was honestly confused what she'd said that was so bad. I still feel that until the cross remark (from that point on, yup, way out of line - which I acknowledged right away, too) wasn't that bad - at least, it didn't feel that way to me.

And that's what I was talking about and wanted to tell Randall. I wanted him to see my post. Faith and Bella, whose thread this is, seemed very level-headed about it and just having a lot of Cap energy themselves. I thought it'd be easiest brining it up to them. Starting a thread of my own has ended in even more fighting, so I didn't want to draw that kind of attention. This seemed like the best option, especially since the thread was brought up here.
So I misjudged this and I'm sorry, Bella and Faith.

Plus, I've been wanting to say hi to Bella and Faith here for a while, about more than just "hey, you have my favourite Ascendant!".

So again, I'm sorry if this was vague and made anyone think I was trying to take a shot at anyone in particular. I wasn't. This has been something that bothered me on LL for like a year. It really annoys me that in so many of these fights, nobody steps up and says, "Hey, you shouldn't have said that" to the parties involved, then people go on and on throwing insults and accusations at each other. A meditator like this is needed. It really is.

But I'll be out of here for everyone's convenience. Especially for you, Bella.

posted July 23, 2014 09:14 PM            

I think you misunderstood my response to your post. I don't think that you are an inconvenience, nor I do I want you to leave the thread. I apologize if my post was a little blunt, I just wanted to make clear that I do not want to see Team A vs Team B in a thread that is meant to be lighthearted and fun.

I know that seeing people being ganged up on is a tough subject for you, as you have discussed this before in several threads. I don't disagree with everything you said in your post, but reading the entire thread would have given you a more realistic picture of what happened there.

VM started off as a regular troll but intentionally started saying really rude stuff to get a rise of out some people. In a perfect world we would all not feed the trolls period, but sometimes you have to call someone out on their crap. For example, VM made a post about the appearance and boringness of Caps, which I responded. She edited it a few minutes later to include Aquas with Cap influence, which was a clear subtext gunning for me.

I thought most people handled her well; she told me to shut the f up and for once I did not react the way I normally would. In most cases I would drag someone that spoke to me like that, but given the posts she was making, it was better for me to leave and not respond.

I don't think VM deserves any sympathy because she was not a victim of anything. She came in guns blazing and then attacked DF and Barbies's marriage. The only thing I disagreed with in the thread was bashing her child. However, she attacked someone's marriage so as far as I am concerned that is a mano e mano situation. More importantly, she viciously spoke to Barbie, very condescending and profane. So if anyone should feel hurt its Barbie, because her character was muddled several times.

Many people tried being calm and telling VM to chill out, but over time her comments got worse and worse to where you needed to respond because they were out of line.

Faith and I tried our best to get lalalinda's attention and get the thread on track. It was just bad timing, as lalalinda obviously has a life outside of LL and wasn't there when things went down. Luckily, the thread got closed and VM was banned, both things needed to happen.

The thing I have a hard time understanding is that we have had many disagreements and locked threads the past two months, so why comment on this one with 2 people involved that you aren't getting along with? This can lead to people assuming things, and feelings getting hurt. This thread has also been up for a month, so you don't really need to have an 'excuse' to come in: you can post in here any time! Yeah the thread was made for Faith to get to know me better, but it doesn't have to be all about me (tho my Venus in 1st loves it )

I personally feel the best solution would have been to contact Randell privately. He does see your posts, but the problem is so does everyone else. DF and Barbie saw your post and based on history, reacted.

The way some reacted really shocked me. I had expected better, honestly....think you guys handled it best from the number of people who attacked her

An issue here is that these quotes from your OP show you are disappointed in some posters. Even if you didn't name anyone, the number of people is very small as not many people at that time were responding to VM. The 'people' giving VM 'flack' were myself, DF, Barbie, and Faith (not really though, used her sense of humor). So who are you referring to in the post?

Meiss, I think this is way deeper than some random person on the internet going batshit and attacking users. I understand why you feel this way, but not everyone needs to be saved or protected. You have to learn it isn't your job to take everyone's personal struggles and absorb them. Believe me as a Pisces Moon, I struggle with this too. Yeah, it would have been nice if moderation came sooner, but we are all human and it doesn't always work out perfectly.

If you are still upset by this and the general behavior you have observed, you can go through with emailing Randell and Faith. If you want, you can always get my email if you need someone else to talk to about. I will NOT be taking sides though on your situation with DF and B, I like all 3 of you and wouldn't want to discuss that. I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, but be stern on how I feel about drama and conflict arising out of nowhere.

Meiss, you need to stay in here because leaving reinforces the feelings you experienced in your past. No one wants you to leave or is suggesting you aren't welcome. Stick around-there is plenty of Cap energy that supports you here. A little bit of crazy too.

posted July 23, 2014 10:00 PM            

Bella. THank you for your post. I agree with it.

Rie, I wasn't going to say anything but Bella is right. There were a small group of people on VM. Four basically, and you excused two of them. Now I don't care if you name names or didn't name anyone, power of deduction told me everything that I needed to know. It took me all but .001 seconds to figure that out and nothing you said afterwards would have made a bit of difference. It's just straight math right there. (which you have a history of complaining about the "fighting that's on LL lately" when it's me and Barbie. Just say it. You let that Saturn make you bite your tongue a little too much)
So in light of all that's been said by anyone here, my thoughts and opinions, and reactions remain just as they were.

posted July 24, 2014 01:14 AM            

But she edited it to fit your placements? Okay, that's awful and I get that'd make you mad. Missed that. See, that's just annoying about edits. Definitely a personal attack towards you and good thing you held off from snapping back at her.

Sorry, it's obvious I've missed a lot of her general behaviour here. Without it, it just looked really harsh. I don't like seeing people get jumped on by a group, no matter who they are.

No need to feel like you have to pick sides. From my part, it wasn't about that at all. I just commented on something I've seen happening for such a long time. Yes, you've seen it affects me and how much it does.

Df, no, I didn't excuse them. I just said they seem more level-headed and so I thought I had a better shot talking to them about the issue. Also them having the Cap energy that VM complained about (in a very cranky way, I give all of you that). I wish you guys had just asked if it was about you if you were so sure I was using the thread as a way to sting the both of you. I didn't. But obviously you've made up your mind about me and I'll just say it's not true and I think you read into things. Like with the Moon-Pluto thread, it was an honest misunderstanding. I get that happens, but trust me that I didn't do it to take some shots. No need for you two to air all of my dirty laundry here, it wasn't about that. You know me pretty well, I'd admit it if I was saying it out of anger at someone.

Again, this was mostly about how quickly a high number of members (more than just the four you mentioned) reacted angrily at her thoughts on Capricorns. From the cross comment on, it went ugly and to the point of no return, 'cause she lashed out. I'm not justifying the way she retaliated or anything [I'm saying this in reply to Bella as well], it's just these things... when there's a whole group replying, it really does feel to that person as being ganged up upon. One against many. Thankfully some other members backed off after a while (Like NeptunianSag and others who posted only in the beginning).

But it's exactly what's been my problem with the atmosphere here for almost a year. It didn't use to be like this when I just joined. Or at least when the mods couldn't, other members would step in and try to defuse the growing fight. What's changed? It's the reason I don't check Sweet Peas anymore. But even though I avoid a place where these things happen - I've accepted it's just how things go there and won't get in anyone's way - it's started bleeding into astrology threads, too. I've complained about this even in like January? December even? Then I put myself into the shoes of some new member and that is the first thing they read. Why doesn't anyone else think this is important? LL is a community. Things could get a lot better if everyone got more involved in trying to keep the peace and mediate - like Bella's doing right now. ( by the way for that!) I'm genuinely worried about the way people reacted when I talked about this before. From many different members, even Randall himself. Do people here just want to fight?

I am bothered about something you've done to me before, though. You basically threatened me because you thought I meant complaining about you to Randall. You did so too in the H&H meissieri thread. It's not cool and I don't deserve that, even if you may think otherwise.

posted July 24, 2014 06:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BellaFenice:
You have to learn it isn't your job to take everyone's personal struggles and absorb them. Believe me as a Pisces Moon, I struggle with this too. Yeah, it would have been nice if moderation came sooner, but we are all human and it doesn't always work out perfectly.

---

^ This. Rie's moon is conjunct Neptune and she puts herself in others' shoes.

But Rie, sometimes I think you might project more pain onto people than they are actually feeling? Or at least, I don't get the same impressions you get. So, for example, I wasn't concerned about VM feeling bullied and crying herself to sleep or anything, because I wasn't getting a "hurt" vibe from her at all.

Some people love fighting and I count her as one of them. So be it.

And yes, by all means stick around in this thread if you like I've gotten behind on posts...as usual...and one of the reasons is, lately I feel like I deserve the Guiness Record for World's Most Boring Person. Even my blood pressure feels like it's sinking into nothingness. I feel like I have nothing to say.

Maybe the sun-Jupiter conjunction transiting right on my Saturn will bring me back from the dead?

*fingers crossed*

posted July 24, 2014 06:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
But it's exactly what's been my problem with the atmosphere here for almost a year. It didn't use to be like this when I just joined.

---

I'm sorry to say that it was...maybe it wasn't obvious to you in the beginning.

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
Or at least when the mods couldn't, other members would step in and try to defuse the growing fight. What's changed?

---

Actually I used to complain about this same thing. I saw members being "attacked" and no one said anything and it tore me up inside.

THEN after many moons I understood better. For one thing, looks can be deceiving and the person being "attacked" may have just framed and baited the other person. Or there may be some baggage carried over from other threads. Secondly, on a forum, it's really not a good idea to meddle in others' arguments. It creates new animosities and pollutes the atmosphere. I used to get involved and try to defend people; now, it's rare for me to do that.

I defended you here...more like "translated" you, since our sun-moon conjunction means we share some inner clockwork...but usually, I try not to get involved.

posted July 24, 2014 08:55 AM            

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posted July 24, 2014 10:57 AM            

I think I'm going to talk to Randall about the atmosphere problem. Should have done that right away - Bella, you were right on that - but truth is I feel super awkward doing that. Maybe I won't even do it at all, now I'm having doubts if it's even worth anything. You picked up on it and so have Faith and Ami - I over-identify with others so maybe I need more time to calm down.

DF, I don't know which part of my post you replied to, but no, I'm doing pretty fine. No idea why you bring that up again, the fight here was not about that. I regret giving you both the idea that I was doing it out of spite, and I get being mad, but I hope one day you can believe me that it wasn't out of spite.

Faith, nah, you're not boring me! Of course not. I could say the same thing to you as I just said to Bella above. Good point and you picked up on it too. I feel in this case I wasn't too sensitive, though, but of course I admit I'm easily affected. Too easily.

posted July 24, 2014 11:16 AM            

This is what I did. When I came on, I went through the same things you and everyone does.

LL is not super moderated but if it was, imo, it would not a wonderful and alive place. It would be boring such as is the case at cocktail parties when everything is on a superficial level.

I found 3 people I really respected and I asked their opinions when I had problems and I had many, many, perhaps more than you or at least equal.

These people are still in my corner today.

The hard thing is to let someone give you tough love.

It is easy for someone to tell you that it is not your fault and everyone is doing it to you.

It is hard for someone to help you see your own side of it.

For this, you need a few wise people and you have to be humble enough to trust them.

I almost left once. Someone dogged me for my entire time on here and it was covert so no one could see it until it escalated enough so some people could.

I really don't mind if someone attacks me in the open. I think that is a fair fight. The covert is a zillion times harder to deal with.

However, I learned how to deal with it.

There is a time to ignore. There is a time to be kind in the face of people not being kind to you. There is a time to fight back with everything you have and kick the person off you.

All this can only be learned through wise mentors in my opinion.

One can't do it alone.

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posted July 24, 2014 11:16 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BellaFenice:
Yeeeeesssssssss!!!!!! (There goes my psuedo-Leo again lol!). So here is a little about me:

Capricorn Asc- 4 degrees. so my chart ruler is Saturn (yay?)

My dominants are Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Vesta

You are a Pisces Moon too!?!?! 5 degrees 2nd house

Aqua Sun 18 degrees, 2nd house
Cap Mercury 26 degrees, 1st house
Aqua Venus 4 degrees, 1st house
Taurus Mars 10 degrees, 4th house

Taurus Jupiter 26 degrees, 5th house
Cap Saturn 9 degrees, 1st house
Cap Uranus 3 degrees, 12th/1st house
Cap Neptune 11 degrees, 1st house

Scorp Pluto 15th degrees, 10th house
NN Pisces 4 degrees, 2nd house
Leo Vertex 14 degrees, 8th house
Chiron in Cancer 1 degree, 6th house (Booooooo)
Juno in Virgo 5 degrees, 8th house (...you know that means! )

My favorite: Part of Fortune 12th house

No* Fire to be found!!! *Does a vertex count?

---

YAY. Cap Rising, my favourite Ascendant (repeating it then). I just feel comfortable with them right away! Some of it has to do with where my planets fall, there's a good chance some of my Cap/Cancer stuff is on their axis.

And... we have a Grand Trine Wow, such a tight one, too! Your Mercury and Jupiter with my Venus-Juno conjunction.
Your Sun is on my NN loosely and sextile my Vertex-Pallas conjunction (15 & 16 Aries).
Your Venus trines my Ascendant (6 Libra) and your Mars trines mine (6 Virgo). My Mars also trines your Cap stellium and falls on your Juno. Chiron conj my Jupiter (2 Cancer).

Ohh and Vertex trine Vertex. Your NN on my Part of Fortune. Lol whoa, everything hits!

Sounds good!

posted July 24, 2014 11:43 AM            

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