posted August 10, 2014 10:16 AM            

I have been both, depending on the other partner, hence I think it is a dynamic or synergistic force, rather than a personality or natal one.

Also, partners can oscillate between being the pursuer and being the distancer in the same relationship, but the point is that the potential for this dynamic already exists in the interaction of the two parties, no matter which stance they take on which issue.

Here are some descriptions of the pursuer and distancer for those who haven't came across this, with the relevant link:

PURSUERS TEND TO:

*React to anxiety by seeking greater togetherness in their relationship.

*Place a high value on talking things out and expressing feelings, and believe that others should do the same.

*Feel rejected and take it personally when their partner wants more time and space alone or away from the relationship.

*Pursue harder when a partner seeks distance, and go into cold withdrawal when their efforts fail.

*Negatively label themselves as “too dependent” or “too demanding” or too nagging” in their relationship.

*Criticize their partner as someone who can’t handle feelings or tolerate closeness.

*Approach their partner with a sense of urgency or emotional intensity when anxious.

DISTANCERS TEND TO:

*Seek emotional distance via physical space when stress is high.

*Consider themselves to be self-reliant and private persons—more do-it-yourselfers than help-seekers.

*Have difficulty showing their needy, vulnerable, and dependent sides.

*Receive labels such as “unavailable,” “withholding,” and “emotionally shut down” from their spouse.

*Manage anxiety in their marriage by intensifying work-related projects or withdrawing into technology or sports.

*Give up easily on their partner (“It’s not worth trying to discuss things”) and have a low tolerance for conflict.

*Open up most freely when they aren’t being pushed, pursued, or criticized by their partner.

(from: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-dance-connection/201210/are-you-pursuer-or -distancer )

Here is a description of the dynamic in motion:
(this is from a page about midlife crises, although this dynamic plays out at all stages of life. This is just a very good description of it)

"Distance and connection are about the intensity of attachment as well as the degree of participation. Pursuit and distance are about separation anxiety and integration anxiety respectively. Pursuers trigger a Distancer's integration anxiety which triggers the Pursuer's separation anxiety. The Distancer fears losing his Self in another, whereas the Pursuer fears abandonment, which for her represents a loss of Self. The goal of their reactive behaviors is the same; each seeks to preserve Self, but through opposite processes; the Distancer seeks Self through solitude and autonomy and the Pursuer seeks Self through relationships and intimacy. Pursuit and distance is an unspoken agreement to dance; each needs the other since without someone to chase and someone to run there is no dance."

posted August 10, 2014 10:24 AM            

For example, people with Aries Venus, Mars, Sun, Moon are generally the "pursuer" type, regardless their gender.

So what makes a natal a certain type in this respect should always be analysed, IMO.

Regarding the second issue, a synastry generating a certain behavior in us, I must tell you I've already noticed certain aspects, patterns generating such a "personalized" behavior. A classic example so far: Mars in hard aspect to Venus: Mars, no matter the gender, will be the pursuer.

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posted August 10, 2014 11:29 AM            

quote:

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I am wondering if any astrologers know of aspects that would bring the pursuer-distancer dynamic out in a relationship.

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Any male-female pairing in synastry will produce the pursuer-distancer dynamic. The feminine planets act as bonding/merging agents, while the male planets are concerned with preserving individuality and deciding how much bonding takes place in a relationship.

posted August 10, 2014 11:46 AM            

quote:

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Interesting thread. I think you can't discount the natals, however. Although someone, a specific synastry, may generate the "pursuer" or "distancer" in us unlike others, there's always a "trend" in the natal.

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True.

quote:

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For example, people with Aries Venus, Mars, Sun, Moon are generally the "pursuer" type, regardless their gender.

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um, hmmmn?? Of the four planets listed, Venus is the one concerned with relating. Since Venus is in aspect with Sun/Moon/Mars their individual meanings is how Venus will experience her partners. Thus, bossy/needy/pushy should come to describe her mates. If anything, imo, a person with such a chart, in spite of the Aries, will be aggressively sought after in the relationship sphere rather that a pursuer himself/herself.

quote:

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So what makes a natal a certain type in this respect should always be analysed, IMO.

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Right.

quote:

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Regarding the second issue, a synastry generating a certain behavior in us, I must tell you I've already noticed certain aspects, patterns generating such a "personalized" behavior. A classic example so far: Mars in hard aspect to Venus: Mars, no matter the gender, will be the pursuer.

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Am I misreading this, or is that statement in contradiction to the one above?? Suppose the girlie has Sun/Moon/Venus in Pisces, with Mars in Aries; and the boy have Sun/Moon/Venus/Mars all in Aries. Who then is the pursuer.

posted August 10, 2014 11:57 AM            

In my experience (and it is also the classical cookbook description) people with Venus in Aries, regardless their gender, have sudden crushes and go after their interest in a direct way. Venus's disp takes care of that lol. Of course, there are many exceptions.

On the other hand, I've noticed many people are not aware of how "active" they are in their pursuing/or in their "distancer" behavior . For example, a Venus in Aries woman will be the first one to call a love interest, she will not wait to be called, and she will not realize calling someone first is an act of "pursuing", because Venus in Aries feels this urge to act when interested in someone, being ruled by Mars.

I'm sorry you think my post is not related to the thread. As I understood, perhaps wrongly, this thread is about what shows pursuer/distancer behaviors in natals and the synastry.

In the synastric example I gave, regardless their Venus/Mars placements and their usual behavior, Mars in a hard aspect to Venus will behave like a pursuer. For example, a woman with Cancer Mars square the guy's Venus in Libra will behave more direct and active towards this one, although usually she is the "waiting to be pursued" type.

posted August 10, 2014 12:12 PM            

2. Another case is that this dynamic happens when the woman is more into the guy that the guy is into the woman. So the the guy is more "her type" than she is his.
In my case, we had my mars conjunct with his venus, also my sun opposite his moon 0 orb. Both these signify my more "male" role.
My saturn square his moon.

His mars is on my moon 0 deg and his sun on my desc show that he is very much my type.

posted August 10, 2014 12:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by viiv28:

3. Plutonian types obsess and pursie. All plutonian women I know when in love become pursuers to some not so strong guys, very often cancerians.

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Very interesting this one, and sooo true. And the rest of your post

posted August 10, 2014 12:18 PM            

quote:

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I'm sorry you think my post is not related to the thread. As I understood, perhaps wrongly, this thread is about what shows pursuer/distancer behaviors in natals and the synastry.

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Yea, I knew that line won't have sounded as I intended.

posted August 10, 2014 12:48 PM            

quote:

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That's an interesting point, Nine, I'm not sure I agree (because the male energy is generally the one pursuing)...

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...right, Mars wants to hit it and quit it, Venus wants to get him addicted.

quote:

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but, if I understand correctly, your theory is that male planets are the one giving the "distancer" behavior, regardless the gender? while the female planets are the ones wanting to bond?

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Yes, within the perimeters of a relationship...

quote:

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*React to anxiety by seeking greater togetherness in their relationship.

*Place a high value on talking things out and expressing feelings, and believe that others should do the same.

*Feel rejected and take it personally when their partner wants more time and space alone or away from the relationship.

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posted August 10, 2014 06:36 PM            

The person with the Sun or Mars feels an inner drive to act towards the feminine planet. Venus and the Moon tend to remain in a passive role, like a flower attracting a bee (good example). This seems to be regardless of the gender of the Sun or Mars person. And it's pronounced with hard aspects for sure.

These dynamics tend to include the initial courting phase, as well as the established relationship phase.

If there are yin/yang double whammies, then I guess both people could take turns reaching out. Like when a guy's Mars aspects a lady's Moon, but her Mars aspects his Venus. What happens with this though, is that the more masculine person, usually the guy, will initiate most often because it's his natural inclination to do so. Where as the women would naturally receive more often. There's just more flexibility, and things might alter a bit depending on transits and whatnot.

If there's only one Major yin/yang aspect then the person with the masculine planet will pursue.

Most of the time the women enjoys it better if she is the receiver, and the guy enjoys it better if he is the pursuer. The attraction level itself remains the same regardless of who has the masculine planets... But the capacity to feel comfortable in a relationship changes.

If the women feels she is chasing too much she tends to feel anxious about it. Women love to be appreciated, and sought out, rather then having to be the seeker/appreciator. She may tire of feeling like she always needs to chase him, and wonder if he loves her as much as she does him. She wonders what he's thinking.

If the guy starts to feel he is being chased, after the initial flattery has passed, he may feel somewhat emasculated, or as if the challenge has gone out of the relationship. Guys like to feel like they can lead. And he may feel bothered if she is always trying to push him, even if her attention boosts his ego. This is in general. The are always exceptions to the rule.

A women's Sun or Mars square or oppose a guys Moon or Venus bring out these problems most of all. Softer aspects are less compulsive, and less bothersome. If you do have a situation where there's only one yin/yang aspect, and the women has the masculine planet, then it's best if it's a soft aspect or a conjunction. Soft aspects are more diplomatic in how they express themselves, and conjunctions don't contradict the planet they conjunct (so it feels more like a united choice to do certain things).

posted August 11, 2014 04:08 AM            

So, there seems to be energy exchange between the feminine (Venus/Moon) and masculine (Mars/Sun), with consideration given to how strong these planets are placed in the natals.

So can we somewhat conclude that the party with dominant Mars/Sun in the synastry would be the most likely pursuer?

But would that be enough for the other to distance, however?

posted August 11, 2014 06:21 AM            

Viiv, what do you think in your natal gives that? Have you ever experienced a guy's Mars in hard aspect to your Venus?

Voix, I think there's always the question of unrequited synastry. I'm not sure the "distancer" behavior belongs to a certain type of energy, male or female. However, as Lotis explained so well, a guy could distance himself when being pursued (because he doesn't feel there's a challenge anymore, or he doesn't feel like he's leading the show) and, consequently, a woman may distance herself from a "pursuer" for various reasons.

When it comes to an unrequited synastry, which makes X pursue Y, but Y is not interested, thus keeping the distance, you usually have, in my experience:

- a natal predisposed to unrequited scenarios, stimulated or not discouraged by rejection (which can be analyzed as a concept; it usually has Pluto and Neptune hard aspects to personal planets/angles)

- an unbalance between the impact on X and Y in synastry:

- one-sided aspects, for example X's active planets on Y's receptive planets/angles, but only one way
- romantic overlays on one side only
- only one resembles the other's type etc.

posted August 12, 2014 07:32 PM            

As these are attachment styles and forms of anxiety, the natal can never be disregarded, as Lee said. These result from family dynamics. Depending upon what point the individual has reached in their self work, they may either seek one who will seek to enmesh or who is more disengaged.

The synastry might be able to reveal that. Those who have natural issues with intimacy tend to have SATURN prominent, especially in some relationship (or aspect) to MOON or involving the relationship houses.

posted August 12, 2014 08:11 PM              

I feel the energies between us are a bit strange. I've been feeling like the "pursuer" while he withdraws, acts distant and cold... This hasn't always been the case but it's been so lately. LeeLoo's advice was to just wait for him to pursue since I probably come off pushy to him so I took her advice and haven't really spoken/initiated anything with him to avoid him distancing himself even more (he's also dealing with the transit Saturn conjunct his Venus)

posted August 12, 2014 09:53 PM            

Let's see, in the overall breakdown ...

His MARS semisquare my VENUS
His MARS contraparallel my VENUS
His MARS conjunct my SUN
His MARS conjunct my PLUTO
His MARS square my NYMPHE

His SUN sextile my VENUS
His SUN sesquisquare my MOON
His SUN trine my EROS
His SUN trine my MERCURY
His SUN trine my KARMA
His SUN trine my DSC
His SUN conjunct my LACHESIS-TISIPHONE

My VENUS conjunct his PLUTO
My VENUS conjunct his URANUS
My VENUS conjunct his PSYCHE
My VENUS trine his NNODE
My VENUS square his NESSUS
My VENUS square his ASC/DSC

My MOON conjunct his NEPTUNE
My MOON square his VENUS
My MOON square his KARMA
My MOON trine his MERCURY
My MOON trine his CHIRON
My MOON trine his DEJANIRA
My MOON quincunx his EROS

posted August 13, 2014 03:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Great explanation of male/female courtship behavior and astrology, Lotis! My experience with charts is the same.

Viiv, what do you think in your natal gives that? Have you ever experienced a guy's Mars in hard aspect to your Venus?

Voix, I think there's always the question of unrequited synastry. I'm not sure the "distancer" behavior belongs to a certain type of energy, male or female. However, as Lotis explained so well, a guy could distance himself when being pursued (because he doesn't feel there's a challenge anymore, or he doesn't feel like he's leading the show) and, consequently, a woman may distance herself from a "pursuer" for various reasons.

When it comes to an unrequited synastry, which makes X pursue Y, but Y is not interested, thus keeping the distance, you usually have, in my experience:

- a natal predisposed to unrequited scenarios, stimulated or not discouraged by rejection (which can be analyzed as a concept; it usually has Pluto and Neptune hard aspects to personal planets/angles)

- an unbalance between the impact on X and Y in synastry:

- one-sided aspects, for example X's active planets on Y's receptive planets/angles, but only one way
- romantic overlays on one side only
- only one resembles the other's type etc.

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LeeLoo I have no idea! My natal seems harmonious towards my Venus, but disharmonious towards my moon. Maybe my male persona awakens when I pursue and it is a matter of my mars ...or it is a moon thing.

In both cases when I have pursued it was not that I initially started to pursue some poor guy that never gave me any time Both times the person pursued me, won me over and disengaged And continued to send signals, which I interpret as "mixed". Every time I withdrew, he would be there actively seeking me out. I work together with my ex lover so this dynamic is very easy for me to trace. Especially now that I have told him good bye in my heart it is very pronounced how he searches me, but in a very "indirect" way. He makes extra effort to be in my proximity, makes a lot of jokes and teases me. Outside I (try to) act as before inside I smile to myself "yes honey the cleansing has began, you are on your way out of my system, joke as much and tease as much as you want". I swear he can feel it. Also men with anything cancer are prone to passive aggressive behavior!

posted August 13, 2014 03:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
'Pursuer' and 'Distancer'? Well, aren't these fancy new terms for Enmeshment versus Disengagement.

As these are attachment styles and forms of anxiety, the natal can never be disregarded, as Lee said. These result from family dynamics. Depending upon what point the individual has reached in their self work, they may either seek one who will seek to enmesh or who is more disengaged.

The synastry might be able to reveal that. Those who have natural issues with intimacy tend to have SATURN prominent, especially in some relationship (or aspect) to MOON or involving the relationship houses.

If you're specifically looking at pursuit, check asteroid DIANA.

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I have very prominent Saturn in 5 squaring my moon in 5th

posted August 13, 2014 12:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
I wonder if anyone has any personal experiences regarding yin/yang aspects in synastry, and Pursuer-Distancer (or even just Pursuer-'Receiver') dynamics.

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I hope I understood the question correctly: my personal experiences with three semi-unrequited scenarios. In fact, the only three guys I somehow "pursued". I think (after some self-analysis lol) I appeared smitten with these guys and they behaved as if they were fully aware of it. BUT I wasn't aware - and this is the most interesting part, IMO - I seemed in love with them or something (actually, I wasn't, I was just very interested in them). I said semi-unrequited because I think in all three cases they were turned off - and looked that way and two of them even told me somehow - by my "smitten" behavior. They happened in various periods of my life. What I remember is that I actually called these guys (they were part of my circle of friends) and invited them myself which I NEVER, I mean never do lol I was like in some sort of trance, it's like the spell in Midsummer's Dream. I took the initiative with them! And it didn't even seem abnormal to me at the time - I though they were shy and needed a push or something hahahaha like "If I don't act upon it, nothing will happen, he's waiting me to act on it". This is totally uncharacteristic for me to think or behave like this.

Anyway, in two of these cases, my Mars was on top of their Venus, a soft aspect the other way around in one of the cases, no aspect in reverse in the second. In the third case, my Mars opposite their Venus, no DW.

After that or during that, I've seen this situation numerous times with similar scenarios of women "becoming Martian" when their Mars is conjunct, opposed or square the guy's Venus. I've concluded after so many examples this is definitely an aspect of potential rejection for women.

The funny thing is, the guy may even like the girl, but he feels very flattered and ultimately bewildered or disturbed by the girl's Martian behavior.

Another thing: my Mars likes soft aspects to it, due to my natal config, while my Venus likes hard aspects to it. So my Mars was triggered too much, in an uncharacteristic way, by the conjunction/opp and made me behave like under some spell or something

Oh, and another thing, when this scenario happenes, the guys behave like they're some sort of "damsel in distress" or they even take a prude look, I can't find the word in English, they definitely take the energy of Venus and respond to the Martian attack lol even if they don't normally behave like that.
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posted August 13, 2014 01:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geminigal2805:
I have Venus in Aries and Mars in Libra.

What Lee leo described fits my Venus. My instincts are to pursue. Always. Sadly it is extremely hard to restrain those impulses.
Surprisingly i never pursued my ex. I didnt even bother to look sexy for him. When i checked the chart,my Venus and Mars were unaspected.
Now my husband pursued/pursues me. His Leo Mars squares my Aries Venus.

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Such a great example for this dynamics, GG! Yes, indeed, they are hard to restrain, when this happens. I wasn't even AWARE - I had to understand it, slowly, from his reaction. I think this happens because Mars is a very instinctive, "primal impulses" planet. It's the drive to act. Interestingly, your unaspected Mars/Venus blocked you from pursuing. And with your husband, you have the right aspect to be the one who is being pursued