posted September 19, 2014 06:32 PM            

This may be a little off topic but do you think its accurate to take western techniques like synastry, composites, davisons for example, and apply them to the vedic zodiac?

posted September 19, 2014 08:23 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
If it's the "evolved me" then how would you interpret harmonic NN conjunct natal ASC?

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posted September 19, 2014 08:48 PM            

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Originally posted by Lavender CrystalSwan:
Aubyanne,

This may be a little off topic but do you think its accurate to take western techniques like synastry, composites, davisons for example, and apply them to the vedic zodiac?

Im curious because the vedic zodiac resonates with me so much more than western.

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Excellent question. As I actually had the rare privilege to study under a Vedic master back in the day, (his name was Vikram; I'm not sure if he's still practising; I forget his surname -- it was in the '90s) I was also studying Draconic and the other traditional Western techniques. One of the things I'd ask would be whether certain techniques could be 'transferrable' -- or if we could exchange calculations with philosophy and so on.

The short answer: no.
The long answer: probably.

Astrology, at heart, is a combined science and art. I've been working on a whole new system which utilises Vedic (Sidereal) calculations with Western harmonics -- employing Vedic principles.

I'm astounded with the accuracy.

I've been exploring using the Tropical calculations, too; I feel that it shows more of how what's happening in the now -- from our vantage -- rather than the more 'multidimensional' view, which incorporates many different features of our karmic history. All of it can be viewable from these charts, I feel.

It's in its infancy, but I'm very excited with the results.

posted September 20, 2014 04:24 AM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
your harmonic - his natal
MC conjunct Saturn - MC conjunct Saturn
Aquarius Venus - Aquarius Venus
Libra Mars - Mars trine Venus
Gemini Neptune - Neptune in the 3rd
Taurus Uranus - 2nd house Uranus
Libra Vesta - Libra Vesta

I did it with your synastry I saved once so there won't be the other way round.

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All right, that's great, thanks Caps, so the first thing you look at is the matching symbolism, I was thinking about that, that it may be important, although they say the signs in harmonics don't matter, however they can't be totally random, those signs, what do you think, Ceri?

BTW, Cappy, I've never thought before that my Mars in Libra matches his Mars tine Venus thanks for that!

posted September 20, 2014 06:09 AM            

For a harmonic astrologer: No
(as they use the chart for the aspect gestalt)

for a Vedic astrologer: Yes
(though they use sidereal zodiac of course).

Signs are only significant in 9th harmonic, if we treat it as symbolic chart, and only then we can compare it to natal, symbolically.

It does not make sense to compare the charts with any other appraoch, cause the harmonic does not show a real existing map of the heavens, but a magnified perspective on the aspects and minor aspects inherent in the natal chart.

posted September 20, 2014 06:23 AM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Your H9 to your natal?

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I noticed something interesting. In 9harm the ASC ruler is in Virgo and in the natal I have Virgo rising. The MC ruler is in Sagittarius, same in the natal. Cancer Jupiter conjunct Moon - natal Sag IC.

posted September 20, 2014 06:42 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Depends on the approach. The validitiy of signs.

For a harmonic astrologer: No
(as they use the chart for the aspect gestalt)

for a Vedic astrologer: Yes
(though they use sidereal zodiac of course).

Signs are only significant in 9th harmonic, if we treat it as symbolic chart, and only then we can compare it to natal, symbolically.

It does not make sense to compare the charts with any other appraoch, cause the harmonic does not show a real existing map of the heavens, but a magnified perspective on the aspects and minor aspects inherent in the natal chart.

It is simply a different approach.

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Oh, I see, thanks Ceri, so I guess because we work with symbolism when evaluating someone's type, I guess we can consider the signs as well.

In this case, I will use as an example the charts of Joanne Woodward/Paul Newman

her natal

her 9th harmonic

his natal

his 9th harmonic

posted September 20, 2014 06:48 AM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I've been delving deeply into Eastern astrology for the past few years -- even slowly finding my own technique which marries it with Western calculation.

If I recall, the H9 is going to be featuring noviles; I may be wrong. While these can certainly be touted as important in spousal synastry, the more I've studied Vedic, (the more, thankfully, came back to my from when I studied with a master in my teens) the more I've become reminded of how much they're focussed upon a multiversal approach -- which I absolutely love.

The H9 has been called 'the soul' of the native, with the H1 (natal) being 'the body'. In Vedic, it's most related to the product, whereas our natal is the origin -- or even engine.

Here's why that is and isn't so good in regards to synastry.

A LOT of the H9 influences won't even begin to appear until after the First Saturn Return; they'll be most active by the Second, too. The astrologer who's really ahead of the game might consider the H9 when evaluating the affianced, as it's assumed these influences will be presenting themselves over the course of marriage.

But if, say, two twentysomethings have an incredible H9 synastry, they might be better advised to attempt a relationship later in life -- UNLESS they ALSO have a fantastic tropical synastry and composite.

H9 is enhancement. It may even denote longevity -- but the energy is just sitting there until utilised, and it isn't throughout our youth.

So, those are my thoughts.

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I agree that this is something ingrained in our own natal, the profile of our ideal partner and the 9th is just one possible way of exploring it and it may very well be reached in the second part of life, because ideals are hard to reach, there's a path of trial/error learning leading up to that. And I also agree the 9th could show other things as well, if we consider natal astrology, just like the 9th house has several meanings.

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posted September 20, 2014 12:52 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
a harmonic astrologer would only compare 9th to 9th, cause only these highlight 9th harmonic aspects; here the orb of conjunction may be 9 degrees (relating to 1 degree orb), though David Hamblin I think suggests using half the orb of natal charts, and he uses 12 degrees for conjunctions, thus in a 9th harmonic chart he would use these orbs:

conjunction: 12° (relating to a 9th harmonic aspect in th basic chart of about 1,3 degrees)

opposition: 6°

trine: 4°

square: 3°

quinkunx: 1°

A Vedic astrologer would also compare the Navamsa to the Rasi (radix). However of course for Vedic astrologer there is a very unique set of rules.

Anyway, treating the 9th harmonic as a symbolic chart, rather than just highlighting the 9th harmonic aspects alone, we could compare it to the radix-chart, yes.

However of course in this comparision the orb should NOT be 12 degrees for conjunctions.
(unless someone always uses that orb for synastry, which I do not recommend, but you know that).

I remember there was an article once.
http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/qyzh.html
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1i1g2/Oracle2020Feb09/resources/26.htm

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Can I get some clarification please.

Like for example:

My husband's 9H Sun squares exact my 9H Sun

But

His 9H Moon conjuncts my 9H sun by 11 orbs; would this conjunction count bc is 9H to 9H and under 12 orbs?

We also have:

My 9H mars conjuncting his 9H venus by 6 orbs and his 9H mars by 5 orbs.

posted September 20, 2014 01:09 PM            

His 9H moon conjuncts my natal Psyche exact.

His 9H Sun conjuncts my 9H Juno by 3deg and my Draco juno exact.

His 9H mercury conjuncts exact my natal Venus/karma.

His 9H Venus conjuncts exact my natal Eris

His 9H Moon 24d/Mars 27d/Saturn 28d all conjunct my 9H Neptune in scorpio at 28deg and all this conjuncts his natal sun/uranus at 25 deg and my natal psyche at 24 deg.

His 9H uranus opposes by one orb my natal Venus.

His 9H Jupiter conjuncts exact my 9H venus and by 8 orbs my 9H Mars.

His 9H AC conjuncts exact my natal aphrodite at 0 deg cancer.

posted September 20, 2014 01:38 PM            

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Originally posted by Orange:
we have a DW Sun- Venus opposition in our synastry, and I see the same thing again in the 9th to 9th harmonic comparison.

His 9th Harmonic Sun and Moon are conjuncted at 0'-1' Virgo, (which falls exactly on my natal Sun at 1' Virgo), and that conjunction of his 9th Harmonic Sun/Moon is opposing my 9th harmonic Venus at 3' Pisces ( and my natal ASC at 1' Pisces).
NICE!

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Yes, it looks very nice you found each other! So his Sun/Moon is on your natal DSC...that's even more potent than Sun/Venus perhaps.

posted September 20, 2014 01:40 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
What do you think about comparing 9th harmonic to duads?

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Not a bad idea at all, Caps. I'm still a little behind with the thread, I haven't done those profiles I intended yet. You go on and check duads

posted September 20, 2014 02:09 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Not a bad idea at all, Caps. I'm still a little behind with the thread, I haven't done those profiles I intended yet. You go on and check duads

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posted September 20, 2014 02:12 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:

His 9H Moon conjuncts my 9H sun by 11 orbs; would this conjunction count bc is 9H to 9H and under 12 orbs?

We also have:

My 9H mars conjuncting his 9H venus by 6 orbs and his 9H mars by 5 orbs.

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the first one might translate to a novile, binovile, trine or quadranovile with a little more than one degree in your natal synastry, so yes, you can use this one, though of course the closer the more intense.

I find the other case even more compelling. it seems like you have a 9th harmonic triangle of your Mars to his Venus-Mars the 9th harmonic aspects being probably between 30 and 45 minutes of orb in your natals.

posted September 20, 2014 02:27 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Yes, it looks very nice you found each other! So his Sun/Moon is on your natal DSC...that's even more potent than Sun/Venus perhaps.

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Yes! I didnt even think of the DSC conjunction.

OMG, LeeL,
i just noticed , how did i miss it before, that its a DW in the 9th harmonic too.
I have a 9th harmonic conjunction of Sun-Moon at 9' -10' Capricorn and his 9th Venus is at 3' Cancer. It opposes my 9th Sun-Moon conjunction. Just like his 9th Sun- Moon conjunction opposes my 9th Venus.

posted September 20, 2014 02:40 PM            

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You go on and check duads

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dPluto conjunct hMoon 1...interesting cause in 9hmn (nice abbreviation, isn't it? ^^) I have an opposition with the same orb
dJupiter conjunct hJuno 3
dSaturn conjunct hMercury 0
dJuno and Vesta conjunct hVenus 2 2
dNN conjunct hPsyche and Amor 0 3
kites and mystic rectangles in both charts

my 9hmn to his duads
Venus conjunct Venus-Saturn 3
Mercury conjunct Vertex 2
ASC reversed
Uranus conjunct ASC 3
Mars-NN conjunct Neptune 1
Ceres-Vesta conjunct Juno 2
Chiron conjunct MC 1

Damn, I think I'll go get a short-term boyfriend. I want a subject I know personally!

posted September 20, 2014 02:53 PM            

But first let's look at this inner partner, like a Juno profile. Taking Joanne Woodward as an example (and including signs for their symbolism and the orbs Ceri recommended) I see she has a very harmonious chart:

A Venus/Mars/MC/Uranus Air GT - together with Sun/Pallas, a novile in her chart and Neptune/Psyche suggest an intelligent and spiritual person (her partner would of course need to satisfy the same requirement): with social ease and a good communicator as a partner, liked by both men and women.
Another GT, an Earth GT, involving the said conjunctions, plus Moon...not only she has the Venus/Mars principle integrated within herself, but also the Sun/Moon principle: she must be a very pleasant partner, empathic, adaptable, but at the same down to earth, critical and protective (her natal chart suggests the same combo by itself) I see a quincunx to her Venus from Saturn squaring the MC/Uranus conjunction. Her way of relating is very much defined by planets Neptune/Saturn in mutual reception, a balance between the intangible (in this case we're also talking about the arts and movies) and the practical and steady side of Saturn; the other strong influence must be Uranus in mutual reception with Mercury on the nodal axis - a quick mind/talker with great sense of humour, interested in communication of a higher level, let's say more intellectual - not a boring, day to day mental activity and interaction - a sextile in her chart and placed here on the chart's angles so to speak, although just symbolical, make me think her ideal partner should have strong Saturn Neptune and Uranus and this quirky Uranian side to himself, but more related to his Mercurial side, hence a strong and permanent sense of humor,among other things.

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posted September 20, 2014 02:59 PM            

How do the ASC/angles in a 9H chart compare to the natal?

My ASC is at 11 Sag 19 in natal, and 11 Can 58 in 9H. The tiny sample of other charts I've looked at so far are in the same sign, maybe 10 or 11 degrees apart from their natal.

Is there a mathematical or logical reason for that, and just how unique am I to land on the same degree in a different sign?

posted September 20, 2014 03:11 PM            

Now, looking at Paul Newman, I see he too has a very harmonious chart. Perhaps these charts may be symbolic for the fact that when we reach a certain level of inner harmony, we are about to meet a great if not our ideal partner.

His water GT is a bit too wide to involve the Moon perhaps, but he has a GT with Sun/Lust Jupiter/Eros and Amor, and I would probably consider the Moon/Amor mdp here - a love GT for sure, reflecting how he behaves in such an Amor situation lol He is emotional and perhaps shy at first when in love but then he loosens up and becomes very warm and affectionate, with a protective joyous side and a great enjoyment of emotional interactions, perhaps the reason he became an actor, The GT is connected to a nice trapezoid, and Uranus comes up here too and surprise! a trine to his Mercury/ASC conjunction, which takes us back to Joanne's profile. Moon square Neptune/Pluto brings a lot of depth to his Neptunian side, his head a bit in the clouds with this combo and powerful charisma (for cinema, without a doubt)The same planets are interconnected, even Venus and Saturn, and his MC/Psyche conjunction points to an inner partner with a spiritual side just like Joanne's, and POF is there too. He is strongly Saturnian in this chart (just like in his natal) with Mercury, Venus and Mars connected to Saturn, but also strongly Neptunian and with Uranus in the mix.

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posted September 20, 2014 03:29 PM            

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Originally posted by Delilah423:
This thread is beyond my expertise (anytime you get mathematics and harmonics involved, my eyes tend to glaze over), but I have a question:

How do the ASC/angles in a 9H chart compare to the natal?

My ASC is at 11 Sag 19 in natal, and 11 Can 58 in 9H. The tiny sample of other charts I've looked at so far are in the same sign, maybe 10 or 11 degrees apart from their natal.

Is there a mathematical or logical reason for that, and just how unique am I to land on the same degree in a different sign?

[It may not be "kosher," but I will say the natal to 9H comparisons I've made so far in synastry are rather amazing, but it may just be wishful thinking on my part].

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The 9th chart is built around the 9th harmonic aspects, so the signs where they fall in the 9th are reflecting the aspects, so to speak, technically it's more of a coincidence in your case, but maybe the same degree could have a symbolic meaning, why not?

posted September 20, 2014 03:45 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
[QUOTE]You go on and check duads

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[/QUOTE]

lol on your last comment...do you have someone in mind?

I like how your duad/9th connections involve Juno and other lovey doveys lol