posted September 24, 2014 09:47 PM            

Over on this informative thread looking at ATROPOS in synastry, (I'm rather fond of these, as I've been actively studying the asteroid for the past two years), my own method suddenly revealed itself to me. Isn't it wonderful when that happens?

So I thought we'd start exploring the three, using a slightly more organised approach -- namely, the method I'm investigating in the above thread.

For quick reference, we'll be using KLOTHO (97), LACHESIS (120) and ATROPOS (273).

posted September 25, 2014 03:47 AM            

'Begin at the beginning,' the King said, very gravely, 'and go on till you come to the end: then stop.' -- Lewis Carroll.

Good advice, however cheeky. KLOTHO, named for the Grecian Fate (Moira) tasked with spinning the treasured thread of life, has a similar astrological significance, for which there's quite a bit of consensus:

'She also made major decisions, such as when a person was born, thus in effect controlling people's lives. This power enabled her not only to choose who was born, but also to decide when gods or mortals were to be saved or put to death. For example, when Pelops was killed and boiled by his father, it was she who brought him back to life.'

[ saturnianastrology.com ]

'Klotho is the start or beginning or inception, decision, initiation ... however you want to refer to it ... the 'theoretical determinative,' of the thing. Will it be? Will it not be? ... How have our decisions over the course of time led us to where we are today, in this moment, with or without whatever expectations of success or failure we do or don't have? ... Klotho - by main belt definition - denotes issues which manifest in us. They're part of our thinking. Or maybe more to the point -- whether we think. Or think things through. Or think better. Or consider all the parameters. ... The reality of now or possibilities, future and consequence? What do we focus on? Are we capable of overcoming our own focus with greater perspective and parameters ... or are we overwhelmed? ... Starting or not starting, or starting but not carrying through.'

[ astroppm.blogspot.com ]

'Klotho shows the circumstances surrounding the beginning of the relationship, either auspicious or not, and a little story about how the relationship started. In comparison with natals, it might show how this beginning affected each native and how important the relationship could become for him/her.'

[ LeeLoo on KLOTHO in composite and Davison charts ]

'According to Martha Lang-Wescott, Klotho relates to conditions that form at the beginning (fate and expectations) that brings an initial understanding of what is apparent at the start, origins/beginnings in general.'

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And there you have it. That's essentially all the interwebs has to offer on our dear Spinner. Fortunately, it's enough to glean the gist of what's going on, as all are in relative agreement: origin. To begin or not to begin? What's beginning? How is it affected by other forces? What's begun? These are the questions.

Seen through the lens of karma and soul patterns, KLOTHO is that which had begun in previous lives and / or on alternate timelines. Simply speaking, it's that with which we enter. Along with the new thread KLOTHO has spun, come lessons, debts, baggage, memories, talents, experiences, and wisdom. Strange, that we should see the culmination of what came before present at the beginning. But we have not only just begun when we are forced from the womb into the physical world. Rather, we existed long before we'd become a foetus as well, or the idea of our parents.

KLOTHO reminds us that we are a spiritual being having a human experience. A soul merely born into physical body. With us, we carry the weight of lifetimes. Of experiences that stretch far beyond our memories in the present. Fortunately, we have the points aspecting KLOTHO to enlighten us regarding what themes, challenges and strengths we bring with us via our karma.

KLOTHO is a glorified origin story. The tale of our karmic roots and past themes now seeking resolution in the present.

So, with this approach in mind, in true Klothonic fashion, let's at last begin.

In the first karmic synastry I'll examine, there's a very clear pattern with KLOTHO active. It seems a fine start, and a strong example. As always, we begin with the natal.

The first thing which springs forth is the most significant. KLOTHO is angular; 5°30 from the DESCENDANT in 7H. Too wide to consider conjunct the DSC, but still placed in the 7H. This may be deemed the very definition of an active soulmate karma or soul-contract. The strongest overriding karma here involves a serious, committed long term partnership or relationship; a marriage or the equivalent, originating in previous incarnations.

But what else can we learn?

Immediately, we see an exact (and I do mean exact) -- 0°03 -- conjunction, at 10°GEM'16, to NESSUS at 10°GEM'19. Of the many types of karma to be bringing in with you, Nessus karma has got to be among the most abhorred and feared.

Here's a great place to read a brief yet thorough primer on NESSUS, the Centaur TNO, which goes beyond the focus of this thread.

Suffice it to say, in a stream of keywords, we'd get: abuses of power, betrayals of trust, psychological abuse and its underlying patterns, inappropriate sexuality or relating, violent jealousies, envies, and murderous obsessions, revenge, deadly deception, and power dynamics with tragic consequences.

It's beautifully summarised here, finding special relevance to how it operates in karmic or fated configurations:

'Where Nessus is at work, you can look for a complex web of interrelation, a sequence of events where one thing leads to another but the pieces of the story don't necessarily seem connected. You may have to connect the dots and see the pattern for yourself. [It's] most closely connected with Plutonian themes such as power, guilt, revenge, repentance and redemption. No one can absolve themselves completely. Whoever takes it upon themselves to judge ends up harming themselves. In order to be absolved of any guilt, one must accept it and do penitence. Only then comes redemption.'

While I don't intend to spend too much time delving into the fascinating intricacies of one of the most controversial skyrocks, the overall take-home could be a long-standing history of abuse in many flavours running the gamut, in which redemption is ultimately the desired outcome. Perhaps the key being that the subtlety and complexity of the inter-dynamics can be so perplexing as to be almost mystifying. The chronology is there, but not in any linear order.

There's a reason I'm spending the time I have on this singular point, however. While it's true the next most logical step in a synastry is to identify how the pattern is activated or completed by another chart, I've chosen instead to repeat the process with the other natal -- temporarily delaying the synastry analysis.

I easily located my own KLOTHO, 26°CAN'07, and isn't angular; instead, she's in my 11H, making no aspect to the cusp.

She is, however, conjunct NESSUS, at 24°CAN'19. While hardly the staggering conjunction of minutes, she is 2° of orb.

The symmetry, resonance, and mirroring is dumbfounding. There are 13 years of difference in age; this isn't attributed to generation, despite NESSUS known for being a very slow mover. KLOTHO has a much speedier orbit. This is no mere coincidence; this is the clear, deep mark of mutual karmic patterning.

To continue the echo, both KLOTHO placements, while in no aspect to each other, are also parallel our natal VENUS positions, within 1° orb or less; his is also parallel his KARMA and NNODE. We each have one more bit of odd synchrony: KLOTHO in some relationship to the asteroid MADHATTER (6735). In my chart, there is a 0°20 parallel, despite no tropical aspect. In his, MADHATTER is 9° from his KLOTHO. Far too wide to be making a conjunction; close enough to be a clear connexion that rings from one natal and reverberates in another.

This is the setting of the stage. These are the themes that will be explored or experienced or endured. These are the karmic ties, outstanding debts, lessons on the agenda, or soul-contracts seeking fulfillment.

How we begin to address these issues will be handled via our next stop along the fated journey, LACHESIS. But before we delve too deeply into the present, we must first question what brought these themes here. Before we can understand how we ended up with the baggage we've got, we need to remember what flight we just took, or train we've most recently disembarked. We need to know what brought us here with it in tow.

For that, we'll need to take a foray into the Draconic natal, and explore KLOTHO's position within it; to understand her karmic context at the root.

posted September 25, 2014 04:45 AM            

Your Klotho conjunct my S Node, and your S Node conjunct my Sun is interesting. My drAtropos conjunct your N Node is interesting to me as well. I'll put the draconic charts down below. My Klotho conjunct your Mars and your drKlotho conjunct my Venus is also interesting to me. I'm sure there ae other things, but you're much better at spotting things. Draconics are below.

posted September 25, 2014 08:47 AM            

My Klotho is on SN (Sag 11th) opp Karma square Sun exact. Trine Chiron and Vertex wow

Draco Klotho in Aries, the same config.

Pluto Man's Klotho is right on IC (1) - so cool! and near NN (5) - because he has an angle cross with Saturn, it also opp Saturn (1) square ASC/DSC (1). A the apex of his Saturn/JupiterMerc/Uranus Kite pointing to IC.

His Draco Klotho conjuncts my Draco Klotho exact
my Draco Klotho 5.38 Aries
his Draco Klotho 5.07 Aries

the conjunction falls in my natal 2nd, his natal 4th

What do you think these config mean, especially the Draco conjunction?

posted September 25, 2014 02:15 PM            

As before, we'll begin by looking at each individual natal to gain a more complete understanding of the separate karma at work. This will be essential when unravelling the greater mystery of the shared karma. I should interject that if your karmic theme has not yet emerged via configuration or repetitive patterns, seeing how these three points, especially KLOTHO, should shed some light. Of course, if you're already aware of what to look for, it can make filing in the details that much easier.

We'll start with the first chart, whose nKLOTHO is 10º GEMINI.

As tends to happen in Draco charts, the pattern repeats, or is 'carried over', with a sign change. Subtleties will change, but the greater patterns or configurations tend to persist. Here, we find it mostly intact, now spreading across early to mid-TAURUS, 05º to 14º, again 7H. While the sign-change is significant, so is what's lacking. It's no longer parallel VENUS or KARMA.

This is a tremendous revelation.

Already, we can see how the nKLOTHO pattern is clearly karmic in nature, being parallel nKARMA. The VENUS energy is also new to the present. One can hope, the intention for forgiveness; while cliched, the power of unconditional love to heal even the most violent and hateful of karmas.

So now we continue with the first natal, looking more closely into drKLOTHO.

Its closest conjunction remains to NESSUS, (0º03 as before) with two different parallels.

MARS and DESTINN!

Wow! The fundamentally bizarre symmetry of that: drKLOTHO parallel MARS and DESTINN, with nKLOTHO parallel VENUS and KARMA. The explanation and delineation practically writes itself. The events and experiences which transpired around drKLOTHO were fateful and resonant to the energy of MARS. (To better understand that individual energy and what likely came of it, we need simply look to drMARS.) Of special note, anything in the position of drMARS, as well as the nMARS, is now identified as being an individual karmic point. This was significant to the native's karma, and remains useful in terms of better understanding their history.

It so happens that there is one natal point in conjunction with drMARS: nPLUTO, 1º. This may be an indication that it was crucial the previous Martian energy be transformed for the present incarnation. No doubt, PLUTO is a wise choice for that task!

posted September 25, 2014 09:01 PM            

Trine early 27 Can Saturn and 26.09 Sco NN
12H Lachesis 24 Can, 11H Atropos 9 Gem

posted September 25, 2014 09:24 PM            

I don't much know about resonating more so though. I'd imagine there'd be something good going on with the Grand trine of "fate" objects, and Knight there (and Ukko pointing at birth heritage, same as Louhi on my Sun), but I have no particular clue how it or they'd all feature or figure. As referred in an earlier discussion, I had a dream where my POV and feelings-felt figure was the knight, and a psychic told me that I had a past life around the 1500s or so as the mistress/lady of a garrison/castle/fort or some such thing, my husband the military leader/knight type, so there may or may not be past life influences of Knight-ly sorts. Especially if you'd take drac Klotho-Knight conjunct Juno to mean something.

Atropos is conj my draconic DC and as said, Lachesis ties to the Saturn-NN-Klotho pattern at least on the draconic level, 28 Sco something.

Actually, there's an additional thing that I forgot for a moment again since was thinking more so of Atropos on that level. The antiscion of my Klotho-Ukko-Knight is 2 Libra, my IC. So... presumably it's important, but since it's what I've always had, I don't know what it does beyond being there.

I had a reasonably good (auspicious?) start to life, and lived in a well-enough-to-do family in a safe country. The Sabian for Klotho-Knight-Ukko is:

"A Fertile Garden Under The Full Moon Reveals A Variety Of Full-Grown Vegetables"

posted September 25, 2014 09:32 PM            

Connexion.

And now:

Connection.

What do you immediately notice? For me, it's how the 'c' and 't' have been replaced by a single letter -- x -- which, in and of itself, is a symbolically strong, powerful character. Two lines, crossed. Literally, connected.

From that day forward, it's been 'connexion', as I love the fact the very word is so inherently connected; the innate unity.

posted September 27, 2014 02:39 PM            

So what significance from a karmic perspective might you place on Klotho Retrograde in a natal and/or draconic? How about Retrograde on an anaretic degree?

Klotho doesn't do a lot in either of our natals, except I guess you can say our charts mirror each other:

My nKlotho semisquare my nJuno
His nKlotho sextile his nJuno

posted September 28, 2014 03:15 PM            

I will return.

posted September 29, 2014 07:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Great thread.

My Klotho is on SN (Sag 11th) opp Karma square Sun exact. Trine Chiron and Vertex wow

Draco Klotho in Aries, the same config.

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Lee, what a coincidence. I have Klotho on North Node, trine Karma, square Sun (2), opposite my Moon. Our Draco Klotho would conjunct each other, forming a Cross with your Draco Sun, my Draco Sun square Moon. Btw, I think your Klotho is on your North Node.

posted September 29, 2014 08:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
Lee, what a coincidence. I have Klotho on North Node, trine Karma, square Sun (2), opposite my Moon. Our Draco Klotho would conjunct each other, forming a Cross with your Draco Sun, my Draco Sun square Moon. Btw, I think your Klotho is on your North Node.

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Ahh you're right thanks I wonder what that means...maybe Aubyanne can clear it out for us: Klotho Klotho conj in Draco and Klotho on the nodes.

posted September 29, 2014 01:16 PM            

And it is in the 7th house, forming a Yod with Composite Alma and Composite N.N. at the apex.

Have no idea what it all means, but it sounds, um, interesting.

posted September 29, 2014 01:36 PM            

Just wanted to add an inspired interpretation on Atropos conjunct Composite Asc provided by Gabby -

posted September 29, 2014 05:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
Hi

Just wanted to add an inspired interpretation on Atropos conjunct Composite Asc provided by Gabby -

"...a way of thinking that's holding you back from finding true peace and being able to see your personal value will be dying through this relationship. ....Through the relationship you both will experience a death to an old way of thinking and how you personally see yourselves, how you view the world and what you want to be known for will change through the relationship."

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I could say that's very much true for a conjunction to any deeply personal point or angle -- such as the NODES, DSC, or IC; possibly MC, too.