posted October 12, 2014 10:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Let`s be fair to Westran though.

he never ruled out other progressions than Venus to Sun, Venus, Mars being of value. He just researched those and found them to be statistically relevant, hence forming an opinion on those.
Including angles, houserulers, planets and asteroids might make it impossible or very very difficult to form a conclusion about statistical relevance of any of those. it does not mean those are worthless, just that it is difficult to make a statistical analysis, including everything.

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True.

posted October 12, 2014 11:13 AM            

Let's imagine we look at the progressed synastric wheel and we see Venus to Sun, but two three planets unaspected on one or both sides, no connections between the rest. I can hardly imagine this could make two people form/maintain a bond, if we are to take the progressed synastry seriously. Taking a method seriously means analysing a chart. For example, if I analyse a natal chart, I can't tell somebody: "Oops, you have Venus conjunct Mars, you're gonna be a sex symbol" I have to take the whole chart into account.

The same goes with a progressed synastry, reading it cannot be reading just one aspect alone. So what happens if I look at a progressed synastry and I see Venus to Sun and everything else scattered all over the place?

posted October 12, 2014 11:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
According to WEstran.

Venus to Sun/Venus/Mars.
Period.

Almost.

But he also mentioned treating the ASC as "Mars-point" and the DESC as "Venus-point".

While i find that first check up very valuable, I think it is simply the first step, or actually
the second step. My list would look a little different.

Starting with the individual natal progressions.

- progressed Sun/Moon-cycle plus are there any Sun/Moon-aspects, either p-p or p-n? When will they peak?
What is the progressed and natal Sun/Moon-mp doing?

- progressed Venus/Mars-cycle (same questions as above)

- progressed Sun/Venus-cycle possibly as well, and eventual aspects

- progressed cycle of natal ASC and DESC-ruler
(that Jupiter-Venus keeps on coming up throughout, I just made a short check of my friend and her partner, and again the Venus-Jupiter, this time as opposition, came up, he has a SAgittarius ASC and Venus is her intercepted 5th house ruler, so time and time again that Venus-Jupiter comes up, and for some reason those people have Jupiter ruling an angle, usually ASC ro DESC)

- what planets become angular (conjunction to the angles) and thus highlight the urge for manifestation in physical reality?

- 4th harmonic aspects to the Vertex? Those seem to have to be exact (on the same degree roughly) - is a turning-point imminent?

always keeping in mind what Noel Tyl said (Davison did so, too, and some others), and I have found that over and over to be true.

NOTHING of importance (and lastingness) happens unless the angles or luminaries are involved (and we are talking about conjunction, opposition, square here).

Why? Because they bring change, or the energy for change.
Of course trines and sextiles have their roles as well, they just do not push for change, they are great in steadying if the change has taken place. Second phase so to speak.

I would see one exception here, and that is when we have a harmonic triangle (tight, 1 or 2 degrees tops) of the so called soft aspects. I am not sure yet, but I could imagine that these weill bring change as well, maybe in a little smoother way, more flowing into the next phase, then the stop-Hu?-what-just-happened?- moment the 4th harmonics often bring.

In the case of tight orbed harmonic triangles we have the underlying midpoint picture, which directs and focuses the flowing energy - at least that is my hypothesis.

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Great post, Ceri, thank you

I'm thinking also that the moment of connecting (between two people) and whether they connect or not is not everything. The whole progressed synastry should tell us a lot about what happens between them in a certain time frame. The fact that they are pushed to connect with each other is not necessarily a positive experience for one or both sides - the relationship brought by the connective progression could be painful or even traumatic, in the end. So I'm thinking the rest of the progressed synastry and a bunch of aspects in there should tell us why they connected, to experience what, and what is the possible outcome or the next stage.

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posted October 12, 2014 05:11 PM            

quote:

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The same goes with a progressed synastry, reading it cannot be reading just one aspect alone. So what happens if I look at a progressed synastry and I see Venus to Sun and everything else scattered all over the place?

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Then I can only hope it’s not my rival in matters of love, otherwise I would lose it, despite the perfect natal alignments *I* share with the guy in question. And that’s an almost surety.

Feel the miracle? ^

quote:

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I'm thinking also that the moment of connecting (between two people) and whether they connect or not is not everything. The whole progressed synastry should tell us a lot about what happens between them in a certain time frame. The fact that they are pushed to connect with each other is not necessarily a positive experience for one or both sides - the relationship brought by the connective progression could be painful or even traumatic, in the end. So I'm thinking the rest of the progressed synastry and a bunch of aspects in there should tell us why they connected, to experience what, and what is the possible outcome or the next stage

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We have to start with a base. We need a base from which we can work on. There’s consensus about this base as, in our case, it has already proven itself AMAZINGLY accurate as a timing tool. The base – from which we work on - includes theoretically a START and an END, depending on when the progressed biggies arise and fade. FADING here means a slow but steady pining away from the power it once had. Ofcourse, people usually don’t fall apart like BOOM BANG DONE, it takes time… it takes struggle, it takes fights that slowly become unbearable, or well name it. And THIS is ‘negative’, that’s how we quietly interprete ‘negativity’ between romantic couples in our progressed research. Before a couple breaks up we can assume they went through a lot of negativity. Bye balance. With strong progressed biggies we may assume a couple is aligned enough to survive life’s ups-and-downs. That’s it.

posted October 12, 2014 09:38 PM            

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We need to work from that base ^. Which first requires absorption and understanding instead of wondering about negativity and taking the whole bunch into account. Wildly speculating about things we haven’t absorbed yet, is a waste of time. So, let’s start with our research! ALL together! Sun/Moon are included from now on, that’s for sure! And see what a time-consuming area only this is haha … I hadn’t even talked about that.. oopzz, let’s just stay with Sun/Moon/Venus/Mars/Asc-Desc… we can’t get it any closer to earth than that guys. And I can tell u, that bunch only is an entire world on itself! Full of *MIRACLES*, wowwwwww’s and tadaaaaaaaa’s ;D

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Well said.

Interesting side note about the Asc/Dsc. Someone I know got married last year. When he first started dating his girlfriend he had pSun in Taurus conj pMoon & pSun conj nVenus. Seven years later (last year) pSun sq pMoon in Leo & pVenus conj nAsc.

posted October 13, 2014 04:12 AM            

" I can understand how, looking at the natal and then looking at the progressed chart, the two might seem entirely unrelated. But they aren’t. They’re very much related. In fact, you can’t look at the progressed chart without taking it back to the natal. It’s relation to the natal is everything. It is the natal chart itself moved on in time. You don’t look the same now as you did when you were born. Your natal chart, too, has grown. But you’re still you.

Your natal chart shows who you are, but your progressed chart shows you where you are now. You have moved on in your life. The progressed chart shows how you’ve moved on, according to a measurement of time. "
[URL=http://theinnerwheel.com/2009/10/17/the-chart-workshop-the-progressed-chart-confusion/]http://theinnerwheel.com/2009/10/17/the-chart-workshop-the-progressed-chart-confusion/[/ URL]

I am not sure about the progressed chart being the "Why" to the natal chart "What" as she continues. In fact I seem I might disagree with that (or I did not understand what she was trying to say). The "Why" is probably more associated with the Draconic chart and the natal chart itself for me, while the progressed chart for me combines the "What" with the "When".
Hopefully you understand what I mean.

It doesn`t really have to do with progressed synastry, but I can vouch for following quote as well:

"Ignoring Jupiter, Saturn and the outer planets in progression is a common mistake. Those slower moving planets may make aspects in my natal chart, and when the slower planets move into exactitude, either by direct or retrograde movement, fireworks result. I may have a Saturn/Pluto opposition at birth within a few degrees, but when slow moving progressed Pluto moves into an exact aspect (within minutes) with slow moving progressed Saturn, all of the issues surrounding my Saturn/Pluto and the houses involved will be highlighted in my life. When this progressed aspect is transited by other planets, the stress will be the most intense. I’ve seen amazing things happen to people whose outer planet aspects became exact by progression."

I was VERY sceptical of this before, the outers in aspect having such an impact, but since it reflects my own experience, I have to question my skepticism in this regard.

I have a Jupiter-Neptune-square natally, with an one degree orb. Well, most people born around the time I was have, so it is semi generational.
Even the fact that they are in mutual reception - semi-generational.
however I believe it is emphasized in my chart by Neptune being conjunct the nodal axis by just a few minutes and conjunct ASC by under 3 degrees, and Jupiter being chartruler, and dispositing my large Stellium of planets in Sagittarius (including all personal planets except Moon and Venus).

The peak (0°00 orb) started on 31st july 2014 and will last until 5th april 2015.

Jupiter rules my 1st house and is interecepted in 3rd house.
Neptune rules my intercepted 3rd house and sits on my ASC in 1st house.

So that would highlight any issues surrounding communication especially in relation to myself, and probably some unclarity and delusions with that.

In fact that is what the last 6 months have been very much about.
Reevaluating the way *I* communicate with others, also the way I see myself and how others see myself, judging on their reaction and how they communicate it back to me.
And I had (or was blessed to be able to) take back some really big misconception about how I thought I come across, am seen (or rather not).
In my case I was lucky enough, that most of the feedback I was receiving, was surprisingly positive.

The other thing that took me by surprise, was the realization of: I am not invisible.

I`ve always been good in melting with the background, stay hidden, out of sight, invisible, sometimes to my detriment, or at least I thought so, but now it turns out, I am not, and possibly never was (at least not to some people).
My invisibility-cloak (Neptune on ASC, plus chartruler intercepted in Pisces in 3rd house) stopped working.
This however leaves me with the necessity to figure out to set boundaries (Neptune again) by myself, as well as find a balanced way of communicating with others, but also about what I show (3rd house) of myself (1st house).

So for me that outer progression IS quite important and descriptive.
OF COURSE not in isolation!
It certainly helps that my pr ASC is exactly sextile my n Jupiter (and pr DESC trines it) as well (peak: 6th - 10th december 2014).

Also, interesting relationally oriented things seem to happen very reliably when Uranus is involved somehow.
I can speak for p Sun and p Moon hitting n Uranus (4th harmonic aspects), as for p Venus I will have to wait a little for the trine, we will see if it also resonates (though the 4th harmonic aspects of Transiting Uranus to my natal and/ or progressed Venus have proved to be some indicators of "falling in love/ attraction").

Maybe Uranus is so electrifying in this sense for me, cause it is exactly conjunct the 11th house cusp natally (0°14) ,and thus becomes a messenger/catalyst for my 5th/11th house axis.

EDIT:
I am never sure how important sextiles/trines to angles are, here in this instance the fact that my pASC is sextile my n chartruler Jupiter exactly, reminds me that my ASC progressed to Capricorn, making Saturn ruler of this angle - and my pr Saturn is on 13°46 Cancer retograding to a conjunction with pr DESC. (will come into 1 degree orb in april 2016 - and 2015/ 2016 seems to be a rather "hot" phase progression-wise).

This looks like a "sequence" to me. the experiences with the Jupiter-Neptune-square, involving the ASC in a more subtle way, leading into the Saturn-DESC-progression, which also brings the ruler of the progressed chart to the DESC.
Separation or relationship?
No matter what, it looks important, even though none of the planets are Sun, Moon, Venus or Mars.
In fact I think it might even emphasize the conjunction of p Mars to nVenus, coming into one degree orb in june 2016 - hard to miss THAT overlapping of aspects- (both are of course already building with a little more than 2 degree orb applying)

So casting my secondary progressed chart for 28th june 2016:

pMars conjunct nVenus: 1°00a

pSaturn,r1, conjunct pDESC: 0°48a

Such overlapping always makes me want to check what is up with progressed Moon, as it is often a trigger of something.

Here in this case I find

pMoon 24°39 Leo
pVertex 24°19 Leo
pMercury, n r7, 25°11 Aquarius
(very slow moving, as it prepares for its retrograde motion)

additionally I notice:
pJuno conjunct nIC 0°21 s
pBML conjunct n Moon 0°46 a
pVenus conjunct nBML 0°27a

Sorry I got carried away, but honestly, I think if I ignore the pSaturn heading towards my pDESC, I would miss a probably vital progression.

Of course the pMars conjunct nVenus will most probably mean an inclination to fall passionately in love or at least experience passion in some way, maybe also creative things, especially since Venus ruls my 5th house natally as well.
And I am pretty sure that will be true and that could possibly happen.
But that Mars-Venus-progression, also happening in Capricorn, happening simultaneously to a Saturn-DESC-progression, might have a modified or different expression/manifestation than if it also happened simultaneously with a Venus-Uranus-progression or even with a Sun-Mars-progression.

posted October 13, 2014 05:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

Great post, Ceri, thank you

I'm thinking also that the moment of connecting (between two people) and whether they connect or not is not everything. The whole progressed synastry should tell us a lot about what happens between them in a certain time frame. The fact that they are pushed to connect with each other is not necessarily a positive experience for one or both sides - the relationship brought by the connective progression could be painful or even traumatic, in the end. So I'm thinking the rest of the progressed synastry and a bunch of aspects in there should tell us why they connected, to experience what, and what is the possible outcome or the next stage.

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I agree with you.

posted October 13, 2014 05:49 AM            

My personal base:

1. luminaries
2. angles, esp. ASC, DESC
3. Venus
4. ruler of 1st and 7th house
5. Vertex (possibly node)

additionally (just out of curiosity and in observation mode)
6. Juno and BML

plus

exacting 4th harmonic aspects to Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto (they can get "crunchy")

I see it like this the beautiful Sun-Venus-flower might be growing on an Saturn-Uranus railtrack.
The flower is STILL beautiful and shall be enjoyed, but we probably should also keep an eye on in what environment it grows and make sure we are not being overrun unprepared by the train.

posted October 13, 2014 05:53 AM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
Well said.

Interesting side note about the Asc/Dsc. Someone I know got married last year. When he first started dating his girlfriend he had pSun in Taurus conj pMoon & pSun conj nVenus. Seven years later (last year) pSun sq pMoon in Leo & pVenus conj nAsc.

This says nothing about the synastry, but it illustrated beautifully how Sun-Moon in the 4 harmonic works with natal progression.

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Very fitting. The Sun/Moon-progression, but also the angularity of Venus.

"progressed angles, like natal angles, are electric, and when they touch something or something touches them it is immediately taken into our lives. If a progressed angle moves to touch a natal or progressed planet, that planet then becomes a driving archetype for that space of time (often a three year period, if not more). Again, transits to these configurations will intensify the lessons." http://theinnerwheel.com/2009/10/17/the-chart-workshop-the-progressed-chart-confusion/

posted October 13, 2014 07:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
wit astro com you have to print out the progressed natals and do it manually.

Solar fire can make a progressed synastry, but the orb they use is 1 degree

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Sorry but the last I don´t understand well.
You mean the sun in Progression ?
Do you mean, it gives different degrees in orbs ? And you wanted to inform me, how the Astro.com site has ?

sorry but I only wanted understand well.

Greetings Marla

posted October 13, 2014 08:05 AM            

What you have to do:

-looking at your progressed chart you see a modified date under "Progressions for..." corresponding to your natal progression.
- what you have to do is to create a natal chart with that date and the same location, using your TOB. You will get an independent chart exactly the same as your progression that you can play with.
- the only difference we'll be the Moon, a few degrees after your progressed Moon - you need to add that by hand on the image. For me, the Moon in the created chart is 1 deg after, so I didn't put it, for him 5 deg after (that's why I added the correct Moon in the pic)

This is my current progressed synastry:

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posted October 14, 2014 08:10 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Solar fire is an astro-program for the computer. If you don´t have it, never mind. Just use astro.com, print out the charts and compare them that way.

Astro-com doesn`t have the option to make a synastry of two progressed charts I think. Though if you are picking the option "progressed composite, plus progressed charts, mp-method" you can view the progressed charts side by side.

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OH how good I asked, because I hadn´t understand.

Ok I made this:

1. natal Chart of me with transitions and progressions. The same natal chart for the other Person. I wrote my planets in the other persons Chart and vice versa.

2. I made what you ceridwen wrote me.
Progressive natal Charts with composit Charts in astro.com.

3.natal Charts of me and the other Person witn Transition and progressions.
synastry oft us too. And then I Transfer our progessions respective in the synastry.

I have the Sensation that possibly I understand wrong you all wrong..hm....

I have to read (my english or astrology ) to understand what you LeeLoo wrote.

Thank you very much, how much possibilities they are.

Greets

posted November 08, 2015 04:49 PM            

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Originally posted by mir:
And u took them out of mine ;D

Well, it's very simple; we can have the best synastry in the world, but without some outstanding progressions chances are almost zero that something is coming out of it.

.. unless ofcourse you would like to keep it on the 'astral plane' only

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The year I met my husband his Progressed AC and MOON was conjuncting exact my natal DC in Gemini. Also his progressed VENUS was conjuncting my natal SUN. His progressed SUN was conjuncting my natal Saturn.

The day we got married his progressed moon was in LEO conjuncting my natal Vertex and Venus. My progressed moon was conjuncting his natal Priapus-Pholus and opposing this natal Juno and my natal SUN.

Yeah its like the progressions have the final say so to speak as to whether that great synastry will manifest itself or if the two will come together.

However,
I met a guy June 2015 and his P SUN conjuncted exact my VENUS, his P ascendant opposed exact my VENUS, my Progressed DC was conjuncting his natal SUN-MOON-MARS and I felt that If I wasn't married we would have gotten together for something serious. Its odd that we met with those progressions when we couldn't act on it.