posted December 13, 2014 09:59 AM            

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Originally posted by Astro keen:

BUT Auby says an Aqua MOON shouldn't get obsessive. Auby, I must be the exception!! Or it is being obliterated by the Neptunian aspects.

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I think it is a misunderstanding concerning Aqua Moons. Their shadow sign is Scorpio, they belong to the fixed quality, they are of air (mental element).

They tend to become VERY fixated mentally. can get easy attached and fixated on a certain idea or perception of thoughtpattern they developed.

To be honest I haven`t met an Aquarius (Sun or Moon) who was NOT very very convinced (some say stubborn ) in his thoughts.

Mutable signs (generally speaking) seem to be more mentally flexible actually. Virgo might be an exception here, but I am not sure. Also Sagittarius can get so convinced and enthusiastic about their own ideas that they might actually be not as flexible as they like to think. lol

posted December 13, 2014 11:38 AM            

But as charming my Dad can be, totally committed and loyal to my Mum. Of course his Taurus Moon in 8th house helps I suppose.

My Mom has Scorpio Sun, Moon in Virgo (and Venus-Mars in Virgo), she is very committed as well, though has more interest in social contacts than him. And sometimes complains about him sticking to her like glue all the time (her Uranus conjuncts ASC).

my best friend`s husband has Moon in Aquarius - completely loyal and committed and faithful, too. Well he has made up his mind she is the one, and that`s just how it is.

posted December 13, 2014 12:32 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I think it is a misunderstanding concerning Aqua Moons. Their shadow sign is Scorpio, they belong to the fixed quality, they are of air (mental element).

They tend to become VERY fixated mentally. can get easy attached and fixated on a certain idea or perception of thoughtpattern they developed.

To be honest I haven`t met an Aquarius (Sun or Moon) who was NOT very very convinced (some say stubborn ) in his thoughts.

Mutable signs (generally speaking) seem to be more mentally flexible actually. Virgo might be an exception here, but I am not sure. Also Sagittarius can get so convinced and enthusiastic about their own ideas that they might actually be not as flexible as they like to think. lol

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Well, I have fixed energy by the bucket load. AQUA Moon, LEO Asc, Pluto, Jupiter, SCORPIO Sun, Venus, Saturn. Some guy is truly missing out on the experience of being dedicated to !

posted December 13, 2014 12:37 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Wow, a lot of fixed energy! (I only have Moon and its dispositor Uranus in fixed signs)

And the Scorpio of course makes it an intensely emotional commitment, too. For you I mean.

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posted December 13, 2014 12:48 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Aaand I have Leo Jupiter, Scorpio Pluto, a 2nd house Moon and 5 more planets + Nodes in fixed houses including my 5th and 7th house rulers and Venus, my Moon and Mars dispositor

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Yeah we know there is noone as stubborn as you.

posted December 13, 2014 12:52 PM            

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[b]Wow, a lot of fixed energy! (I only have Moon and its dispositor Uranus in fixed signs)

And the Scorpio of course makes it an intensely emotional commitment, too. For you I mean.

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Oh, I forgot to mention Uranus - that's in LEO too. Sounds contradictory![/B][/QUOTE]

Contradictions are what gives the spark of creativity!

There is nothing more boring to me than charts all consisting of trines and sextiles. *yawns*

What others might call comfortable, soothing, heavenly, sometimes feels to me like standstill, stagnation, death because of boredom.

When things get cathartic and transformative, and I feel like I am being put through the wringer on a daily, no, hourly basis, THAT is when I feel most alive.

posted December 13, 2014 12:53 PM            

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Yeah we know there is noone as stubborn as you.

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I have Moon in 2nd house, too, btw.

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posted December 13, 2014 12:54 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:

[QUOTE]I have Moon in 2nd house, too, btw.

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I know, I can recognize my species

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it takes one to know one.

posted December 13, 2014 01:03 PM            

I guess remembering your chart helps

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What sign is your Moon in? I forgot.

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posted December 13, 2014 01:07 PM            

I mean if we call ourselves obsessive, are we really obsessive? Or just using this term to describe intense emotional involvement?
Which is not the same btw.

I really hope there is noone here of a real obsessive nature, cause that is a very debilitating and dangerous condition to be in, for the one who is obsessed as well as for the target of the obsession.

posted December 13, 2014 01:08 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Ceri

I guess remembering your chart helps

[QUOTE]What sign is your Moon in? I forgot.

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???!!!

Try to guess then. Shouldn't be hard with the info I've shared.

[/QUOTE]

lol

posted December 13, 2014 01:09 PM            

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So what are we really talking about when we use the terms "love addiction" and "obsession"?

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posted December 13, 2014 06:22 PM            

Venus in the 12th, especially for a woman (Venus will describe how she sees herself as a woman and what she feels she's worth to others). Sasstrology just published a fantastic article about it, just, anyone who has this should read it.
http://sasstrology.com/2014/12/the-12th-house-venus-woman.html
Also for the same effect: Neptune in the 7th, Venus-Neptune afflictions, Ruler of the 7th house in the 12th, Venus in harsh aspect to the 12th house ruler. Maybe Neptune in the 2nd for not seeing what you really want (which is important to know going into a relationship).

Same going for Venus-Uranus and Venus-Pluto.

But I'm going to mention two that you guys may not have thought of right away. Not sure how much they play out on their own, but in combination with the above, they can certainly harm and make things worse.

Venus-Jupiter. Yes, happy, benefic Jupiter, can be really bad when you already have one of the above. I mean, Jupiter expands whatever it touches. This can be great - making for someone very generous and sociable - but also make someone overdo their love nature. What I mean is spending too much money or time on a partner (at the expense of other things/people), an extreme need for being liked (Venus wants to have harmony, you know) and said harmony. In the worst case, this can lead to putting up with things you shouldn't, just to keep the peace. Being too optimistic, thinking things will turn out for the best when they won't (like a bad partner changing their ways). Just... giving a lot, and when in doubt, giving more.

The other thing would be afflictions to the 2nd house and its ruler. The 2nd house is about what you value (this extends to relationships - it's still a Venusian house), your self image and self esteem... or the lack thereof, and what stands in your way of feeling confident. Which can again lead to putting up things you shouldn't (in favour of keeping the relationship - no matter how bad it is). Emphasis on the 2nd house creates a lot of need for security, which again can mean hanging onto just any kind of relationship because it makes you feel better.

The moon can be very telling, too, together with the IC, as it describes your biggest needs (to feel secure emotionally). Like Moon in a social house - someone doesn't like being alone.

posted December 13, 2014 06:58 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Is wanting a lifelong relationship and being willing to give a kidney hopelessly romantic?

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Sounds fairly reasonable to me

posted December 13, 2014 09:33 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
If we were able to determine markers for love addiction and limerence, we might be able to better help a querent in regards to the really tough questions: regarding karma, soulmates, and, of course, Twin Flames.

We might provide more knowledgeable guidance in the instance where no relationship exists between the two in question, but the querent is obsessively attached to the individual / love object. If the natal indicates a tendency to love addiction, we may be able to ((KEELA-added italics : )) rate these case studies a bit lower ((/my italics)) in regards to research into soulmate astrology.

Love addicts, on the other hand, have a chemical need for fulfillment of certain behaviours and experiences. They long for the dance of infatuation...

I'm curious, how many lovelorn are actually addicted, who cannot see beyond the haze of their own brain chemistry... A legitimate high being sought, each infatuation. Each crush. Each (abusive) relationship. ... Like any addiction, the love addict is caught in a destructive cycle. They lack self-esteem, or a true estimation of their worth. Their history tends to feature betrayal and abuse.

...And, we could strengthen the research into karma, Twin Flames, and soulmate relationships, as we could 'control' for love addiction, as they say; it wouldn't 'confound' the data. We could know when it's karma that's driving two together, to have an intense, powerful, transformative experience -- and not just dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin.

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First response before reading forward: You are such an asexual. Does your chemistry work at all in comparison to what you suggest is "just" the hormones here?

Not a judgement (any more than yours to sexually geared people perhaps?), just the remark that comes up. You want to eliminate EVERYTHING that may not be of the "highest" calibre from your threads, lest people be human? "No non-karmic, please, we're asexual/more highly geared"? That's amusing. You seem to want to exclude anyone who by chart qualifies for your limerent behaviours or more, even though such a person can have as valid a connection with someone as those without such charts, leading to "Boy who cried wolf" style omissions or overlooking of the charts of those you've determined don't qualify for your higher criteria.

posted December 13, 2014 10:20 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Now, what's 'bad' love versus 'good' love? If it's makes you feel anything less than loved: respected, appreciated, with empathy and companionship, then it might be important to reconsider the approach.

Love addiction doesn't bring the addict happiness. They feel trapped. Whether it's a constant stream of infatuatory 'flings', or fantasising about a non-existent relationship, it brings them pain.

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This at the top I like. Empathy or whatnot, but being treated well and treating someone well, of course.

((Actually, have to add that all that again leaves out just having an immensely sexual response to someone you've newly met and wanting to get sexual with them. You wouldn't feel loved in something new like that, and companionship levels depend on the circumstances. If you're mutually okay with getting to sex pretty early on despite not knowing about emotional responses or your willingness to tie yourself emotionally to said hot piece of "OMG let me at 'em now", I still don't see it necessarily just being the bad sort of thing. You may need to be lucky or discerning enough for the other person to be mature enough to deal with sex like that or with you, but sexcapades don't automatically mean a lack of respect.

You can have that desire to get to sex though, and if you don't get to it, lose interest after a bit, so... sexual attractions happen. Is that automatically looking for a high, if you after losing interest in the no-sex person you end up looking at someone you would get to have sex with? Sexual gratification IS a need to most people as I understand it, and something they need to deal with one way or another.))

You can have immensely fuzzy feelings of warmth and wishing someone the best ever even if you weren't involved with them, btw. I don't know if I'd call it full love in partner-terms but tremendous sympathy (and what I can only term as love, since it is in its own way) can exist for someone even if you weren't ever going to be partnered with them (and knew it but still found them lovely in any case). It's beyond platonic relationships since you don't think of friends like that but still qualifies for "unrequited" love, strictly speaking.

If it's something like that or even veering toward such a thing, I also don't know how it could bring *just* pain to the person with that. Maybe there is the occasional pang of being alone and not having anyone, or not having anyone like some couples are to each other maybe, but from your earlier talks you also assume people doing one-night stands find it painful. Maybe it's what some people are ready for and don't want another person more permanently around. Are Uranians with less desire to be involved "properly" (long-term?) supposed to automatically suffer because some choose a different relating pattern, perhaps? I wouldn't know, but you do need to know IF the person actually suffers from their behaviour or choices or not. A chart and some starry-eyed or "Oh, damn, this went wrong as well" remarks don't necessarily reveal enough either way.

Oh, and where do you rate the people who write MarySue stories about their fictional (often idealized) versions with the characters they happen to fancy from fictional things? You deal in fiction, so are we to take all fictional obsessions or "Why does this bug me or why do I react to this fictional representation?" cases as bad? *You* certainly can't make the exclusion or half your case falls apart.

(Personally I see dealing with the fictional figures as trying to sort out something at your end, and maybe even cutting out a lot of unnecessary faffle with some real person who'd mess your system up more than your sorting it out on your own through archetypes, symbolic stuff or "feeling" something as if in a virtual reality version that you can dissect, analyze or redo however necessary. To some extent I guess I'd rate crushes on real life people or celebrities under the same category, but then I have run into a lot of literary types writing fic to deal with a lot of things, not only relationship stuff. And I probably project onto some people with that, their having many other reasons for some of their fic, but in some cases that experimentation thing has seemed the case, too.)

If there is someone more on the asexuality spectrum who isn't ready to deal with a "real" person at this stage, is it limerent behaviour if they try to sort out relationship matters in some way through a crush or a long-distance relationship or something that keeps them more separate from things? Practise runs, so to speak. Sometimes someone wants the romantic feeling, yes, but isn't ready to deal with someone physically there, or making demands from the person. Is that automatically bad in your books? Physical closeness may make someone feel uncomfortable and the push or demand for that (by society, norms, expectations, "normality", whatever) is the thing that brings pain, not being romantic toward someone. If the relationship expectation is physical closeness, that can make people feel trapped and want to keep distance. Having matching needs is the ideal scenario, of course, but some people are unlikely to find that very easily.

posted December 14, 2014 03:04 AM            

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Originally posted by Vajra:

@Astro keen: OMG, your chart placements are extremely similar to my partner's, you must be like a female version of him if astrology is worth anything! He has: Sun, Venus and Uranus in Scorpio; ASC and Mars in Leo; Moon in Aquarius. He's stubborn beyond belief, loyal to a fault, but also very sensitive. I often think it can't be easy to be so thoroughly "fixed"

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posted December 14, 2014 06:58 AM            

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
The ability to disengage is non-existent and fall out severe .

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