posted December 12, 2014 04:42 PM            

We might provide more knowledgeable guidance in the instance where no relationship exists between the two in question, but the querent is obsessively attached to the individual / love object. If the natal indicates a tendency to love addiction, we may be able to rate these case studies a bit lower in regards to research into soulmate astrology.

I'd like to target those charts which are clearly a result of karma or destiny bringing the two together, rather than pathology.

An excellent example is Ceridwen's chart. Since when have you heard of an AQUARIUS MOON getting obsessive? SAG SUN might, with the right configurations, but with a lunar Aquarian influence, it tends towards the opposite: avoidance and distance.

Or, take gals like me. SCO MOON, but URA 1º conjunct. I can find myself obsessive in the face of destiny, and called by karma. But I've never experienced 'withdrawal' from a relationship. I've experienced the pain of rejection; the despair of loss -- even if I was the one to leave. It was self-limiting, and I kicked myself for being foolish.

Love addicts, on the other hand, have a chemical need for fulfillment of certain behaviours and experiences. They long for the dance of infatuation; the ones blaring Gaga's 'Bad Romance' and, akin to Taylor's megahit, they've got the blank space in which they'll write your name.

I'm curious, how many lovelorn are actually addicted, who cannot see beyond the haze of their own brain chemistry, which is potentially feeding them to the wolves time and again. A legitimate high being sought, each infatuation. Each crush. Each (abusive) relationship. Each instance of casual sex, where the inevitable walk of shame does nothing to prohibit future behaviour. Like any addiction, the love addict is caught in a destructive cycle. They lack self-esteem, or a true estimation of their worth. Their history tends to feature betrayal and abuse. They long for love with a desperation that it infuses every other waking moment.

Perhaps we could find NEPTUNE. PLUTO. Configurations of MOON and VENUS. Certain asteroids: APHRODITE, BACCHUS, DIONYSUS. Afflicted DSC and 7R. A troubled 8H and 5H.

If we could find what drives them to have a 'bad romance', we might serve them better as astrologers and counselors, friends and guides. And, we could strengthen the research into karma, Twin Flames, and soulmate relationships, as we could 'control' for love addiction, as they say; it wouldn't 'confound' the data. We could know when it's karma that's driving two together, to have an intense, powerful, transformative experience -- and not just dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin.

posted December 12, 2014 06:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delilah423:
Well, Auby. I like the idea, but what ya gonna do with us elderly folks, who have finally grown into our multiple hard Saturn aspects? Or were probably love addicts (or close to it) in our younger years, and grew into ourselves (with lots of work and therapy) to eventually get together with a soulmate (or two), although with my Uranus in the 7th, who knows how long the most recent will last?

I remain noncommittal to the point of skeptical on the issue of Twin Flames, although I'm beginning to wonder with the current guy. On some level, I believe all my serious (to me) relationships, platonic or sexual, involve soulmates and karma. But I have no doubt about the last one, and the current one.

---

VERY good question, Delilah. I'm, personally, a LOT more likely to take a the query of an 'old-timer' in this regard more seriously at face-value. But, as you know, there's a huge influx of 'is this my Twin Flame?' questions, even just since 2012. It can be overwhelming, and inundating. I want to help as best as I can, but I fear a lot of it is the seduction of certain types of addiction, and trauma-bonded relationships which may feel destined, but, in truth, are destructive.

posted December 12, 2014 06:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ueharaa:
Since the thread has been moved here:

I think this is a fantastic idea!!
The major drawback to simply relying on the charts to tell whether someone is a love addict or not is that it would be way too fatalistic. One would have to ask questions to the person to have an idea of past Pattern in his/her relationship. Questions whose answers would somehow indicate whether this is a wow event, not so like what the person used to be or if s/he had already been victim of his/her own addiction.
And could someone trigger those psychological need/pattern? (thus using synastry?)
I think overall it would require absolute honesty from the person.

---

Exactly! That's why I think that, for example, Lee's expertise in pattern completion, might show how certain 'open-ended' configurations could be completed in synastry to either create a beautiful -- or manipulative -- pattern.

I'm in total agreement about asking questions. I think I've gotten to where I trust the astrology enough to know that synastry doesn't have to exist within a vacuum. We SHOULD be able to ask pertinent details about the individuals and their relationship.

But so often I'll find there IS no relationship between those in the synastry. This is disheartening to me, as it feels misleading. If you're friends, but there's a desire for a romantic relationship, then let's look at the relationship AS IT EXISTS: which, in the present, is a friendship.

What bothers me most is (typically) women driving themselves mad over bad relationships with men they're hoping, if they're their Twin Flame, will justify the poor treatment.

Maybe I'm here, as a Twin Flame, to be a strange example of how, in the absence of emotional maturity, a Twin Flame can be JUST as abusive, and, without spiritual evolution, is really no different from any other romantic relationship.

And, yet, an emotionally mature and spiritually evolved relationship is indistinguishable from a Twin Flame one.

posted December 12, 2014 06:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hi everyone,

my name is LeeLoo2014 and I'm a love addict!

---

I think you're an idealist, Lee. Now, if you're countlessly subjecting yourself to abusive men, (which would seem odd, since you're a strong advocate for respect and honesty) and justifying it by playing 'the soulmate' card, then you would qualify.

posted December 12, 2014 06:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I think you're an idealist, Lee. Now, if you're countlessly subjecting yourself to abusive men, (which would seem odd, since you're a strong advocate for respect and honesty) and justifying it by playing 'the soulmate' card, then you would qualify.

A 'hopeless romantic' CAN be a love addict, but only if their continual poor choice of partners is dominating their life, and creating great unhappiness and distress. Love addicts are those who feel caught in a loop and can't escape it. Their need to fill the void is so great, they obsessively seek attention and pathology, rather than companionship, empathy, and integrity.

---

Interesting. First of all, I'd like to say I think this is a great thread, very inspired idea. So I take it we're definitely looking at the dark side of "love addiction" and everything it involves: addicted to infatuation, then love pains...you know I tried to do a thread about propensity for Unrequited Love but I wasn't inspired and I mixed it with TFs lol and didn't get a good response...but these topics interest me a lot. Of course there's a difference between these two, but I suppose the lack of a proper defensive reaction or even addiction to the unrequited side of love must be an ingredient of "love addiction" too.

Should we call it "love" though? It's such a nice word! lol Is it love, to be more precise?

How would you define "good love" and "bad love"?

------------------

posted December 12, 2014 07:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Southern Sun:
How would you define the underlying, pervasive feeling of obsession for a single person you were borderline involved with, but have not seen in years and only hear from sparesly, topped off by Saturn/Uranus/Neptune in hard aspect to natal planets in 7th?

Yes I'm describing myself here.

---

I'd examine prior history. I've had that myself, but only once, out of several relationships, since I was 16. They were always committed, too, and serious in nature. Even at that young age.

I feel the natal and synastry are definitely worth taking into account, and evaluating closely. If the individual has a history of limerent relationships, or tumultuous, unrequited love affairs, I might consider that a red flag for the interpretation.

posted December 12, 2014 08:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Interesting. First of all, I'd like to say I think this is a great thread, very inspired idea. So I take it we're definitely looking at the dark side of "love addiction" and everything it involves: addicted to infatuation, then love pains...you know I tried to do a thread about propensity for Unrequited Love but I wasn't inspired and I mixed it with TFs lol and didn't get a good response...but these topics interest me a lot. Of course there's a difference between these two, but I suppose the lack of a proper defensive reaction or even addiction to the unrequited side of love must be an ingredient of "love addiction" too.

Should we call it "love" though? It's such a nice word! lol Is it love, to be more precise?

How would you define "good love" and "bad love"?

---

I know, right? To have 'love' in connexion to anything that's less than lovely seems disrespectful to love itself. Alas, the mental health field is all for pithy, though it can certainly lack consensus. In this respect, 'love addiction' seems to be the catch-all for these destructive behaviours.

Now, what's 'bad' love versus 'good' love? If it's makes you feel anything less than loved: respected, appreciated, with empathy and companionship, then it might be important to reconsider the approach.

Love addiction doesn't bring the addict happiness. They feel trapped. Whether it's a constant stream of infatuatory 'flings', or fantasising about a non-existent relationship, it brings them pain.

I'd never say that the power of the Twin Flame relationship is automatically suspect. I WILL say that there are a LOT more love addicts than there are Twin Flames, and it's important we be mindful there.

posted December 12, 2014 08:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hi everyone,

my name is LeeLoo2014 and I'm a love addict!

---

Everybody: Hi LeeLoo!

How long has it been since your last love?

posted December 12, 2014 09:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hi everyone,

my name is LeeLoo2014 and I'm a love addict!

---

me, too, babe

I have lots of Neptune in my bucket.
What's your excuse?

posted December 12, 2014 09:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:

I'm curious, how many lovelorn are actually addicted, who cannot see beyond the haze of their own brain chemistry, which is potentially feeding them to the wolves time and again. A legitimate high being sought, each infatuation. Each crush. Each (abusive) relationship. Each instance of casual sex, where the inevitable walk of shame does nothing to prohibit future behaviour. Like any addiction, the love addict is caught in a destructive cycle. They lack self-esteem, or a true estimation of their worth. Their history tends to feature betrayal and abuse. They long for love with a desperation that it infuses every other waking moment.

---

Sounds like axis II, Cluster B (dramatic, emotional or erratic disorders), specially borderline IMO.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:

A 'hopeless romantic' CAN be a love addict, but only if their continual poor choice of partners is dominating their life, and creating great unhappiness and distress. Love addicts are those who feel caught in a loop and can't escape it. Their need to fill the void is so great, they obsessively seek attention and pathology, rather than companionship, empathy, and integrity.

---

Yep sounds like axis II, Cluster B specially borderline...

posted December 12, 2014 09:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Exactly! That's why I think that, for example, Lee's expertise in pattern completion, might show how certain 'open-ended' configurations could be completed in synastry to either create a beautiful -- or manipulative -- pattern.

I'm in total agreement about asking questions. I think I've gotten to where I trust the astrology enough to know that synastry doesn't have to exist within a vacuum. We SHOULD be able to ask pertinent details about the individuals and their relationship.

But so often I'll find there IS no relationship between those in the synastry. This is disheartening to me, as it feels misleading. If you're friends, but there's a desire for a romantic relationship, then let's look at the relationship AS IT EXISTS: which, in the present, is a friendship.

What bothers me most is (typically) women driving themselves mad over bad relationships with men they're hoping, if they're their Twin Flame, will justify the poor treatment.

Maybe I'm here, as a Twin Flame, to be a strange example of how, in the absence of emotional maturity, a Twin Flame can be JUST as abusive, and, without spiritual evolution, is really no different from any other romantic relationship.

And, yet, an emotionally mature and spiritually evolved relationship is indistinguishable from a Twin Flame one.

Love addicts seek elements of fantasy to justify their commitment to a relationship that's destructive for them. It's obviously bad for them, confounds the data set as a whole, and can be REALLY confusing with the sea of 'is this my Twin Flame?' posts.

---

Yes I definitely agree with you. This is actually why I'm more into karmic astrology as viewing synastry charts only through this lens has helped me get rid of the romantic/friendship/ potential they could represent. Because, and this is exactly what you're stating here the REALITY of the relationship or situation is what matters and I've found karmic astrology to be rather great in explaining, understanding the lessons that this experience, whatever it is, has to bring.

Looking at the synastry charts of someone you're not with but want to and looking for "proofs" you should be together or are meant to be in some way is definitely unhealthy, although highly tempting.

posted December 13, 2014 04:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
Yep sounds like axis II, Cluster B specially borderline...

---

I'd wager a lot of BPD are love addicts, too. If you think of the pathology, (though there's plenty of C in there, too, given the obsession feature) it's classic borderline history. You've got abandonment, codependency, and eventual obsession regarding the prior two.

posted December 13, 2014 06:12 AM            

Anyway, as a matter of fact Aquas are quite prone to that. Has something to do with their antiscion-sign being Scorpio or so.

Actually I think I might have been obsessed with avoiding relationships and love and all that jazz in the past, making myself quite comfortable in the mental ivory tower, observing the world from afar, isntead of participating.
A lot of detachment and distance going on actually. AT least on the physical manifestation level. Keeping my distance seemed so effortless. *sighs*
It really exhausts me to find myself so much "in the spotlight" recently, it is like I have to use muscles now that I never had really trained before!

posted December 13, 2014 06:40 AM            

I have however not at all been emotionally cold or detached or any of it, when it comes to family and friends. I am very selective, that is true, but the irony is that as avoidant I was when it came to possible romantic partnerships, I am very emotionally involved in family and friendships.

So my avoidance pattern is clearly very focused on the romantic relational area of my life.

my 7th house is actually rather uncomplicated, or it looks like this.
DESC in Gemini, ruler of 7th house in SAgittarius in 1st house conjunct Sun (which rules 9th house).

However, my 5th and 8th house, definitely could be considered "complicated".

5th house cusp in Taurus, ruler of 5th, Venus, in Capricorn in 1st house, squaring Pluto on the MC (ruling 11th and 12th).

Venus also is sextile Jupiter, r1, in Pisces in 3rd, and sextile Uranus, r3, in Scorpio on 11th cusp, in fact Venus is on the exact Jupiter/Uranus-mp.

So she is both, Saturn-Pluto and Jupiter-Uranus. Try to express that in easyl ways. LOL
Oh and of course Venus is conjunct my natal ISIS-OSIRIS-conjunction.

as for the 8th house, this seems to be at least equally complicated. lol
Cusp in Cancer, ruler Moon in Aquarius in 2nd house;
the only aspect Moon really has (unless we count minor ones and semisextiles) is an EXACT quinkunx to Saturn, r2 in 8th house.

So there is this mutual house reception of 2nd and 8th house (intimacy only allowed, if I feel secure in myself; With Saturn ruling 2nd house one almost never feels secure. lol)

SAturn, as r2, retrograde in Cancer in 8th house, only other aspect it has is
trine Jupiter, r1, in Pisces in 3rd.

At least I can talk about my issues.

BTW Saturn is also biquintile my Neptune-NN-conjunction. Hopefully that is a positive one.

posted December 13, 2014 06:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
Everybody: Hi LeeLoo!

How long has it been since your last love?

Robert Palmer - Addicted To Love

---

30 seconds and counting!!!!

Now everyone cheer :fireworks:

And thank you for that motto song, I forgot about it lol

posted December 13, 2014 07:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orange:
me, too, babe

I have lots of Neptune in my bucket.
What's your excuse?

---

"I see you"

My astrological excuse must be my mutable cross: Venus opp Jupiter/Juno sq Neptune Eros opp. What helps me to hang in there and not give up lol...it must be my Scorpionic stellium.

A perfect blend of Neptune and Pluto

But I think Mars in Libra, Venus sq Neptune almost exact, duplicated 5th house, 5th/8th ruler conjunct MC ruler, and some love asteroids in the right places also give me a constant need for being in love and romance. It is for real.

I am a courtesan, I confess and a "hopeless romantic"

------------------

posted December 13, 2014 09:18 AM            

It gets worse! NEPTUNE conjuncts KARMA and SUN and squares CHIRON - destined to experience the misery, would you say?

Wonder if NEPTUNE sextile JUPITER/PLUTO provides a respite. Perhaps not, as I also have Ophelia and Dejanira on my NEPTUNE. Oh my!

posted December 13, 2014 09:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

But I think Mars in Libra, Venus sq Neptune almost exact, duplicated 5th house, 5th/8th ruler conjunct MC ruler, and some love asteroids in the right places also give me a constant need for being in love and romance. It is for real.

I am a courtesan, I confess and a "hopeless romantic"

---