posted June 26, 2016 07:33 PM            

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Originally posted by vesta:
... This was just before the new moon in Gemini this was the divine intervention for twins aspect. I am sure it included other twins as well ...

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To be totally frank with you, I am not seeing any particular lunation to be any more 'intervening' than any other particular lunation. The Gemini New Moon was NOT a 'twin flame new moon' for pity's sake! This is more propagandic tripe being spouted on forums in hopes that the one spreading it will get more clients for readings. Sorry, but it's true.

I've been watching the 'Union rate' since January, and it's neither increased nor decreased since April, in the wake of 'the mass-activation' and 'call to action for all twin flames'.

Sorry if I seem cynical, and rather exhausted from it all. I kinda am. I've gotten pretty tired of all of this 'Twin Flames New Moon in Gemini' nonsense. I don't like it when a whole lot of people are promised something that NOBODY can guarantee to be delivered. It seems cruel; get hopes up on a mass scale like that, when I saw the same BS in March ... then April ... then May ... and -- oh, big shock -- now 'Junion'.

ENOUGH!

Either folks are TRULY trusting in the Universe to guide them, or their own soul's plan to be unfolding, and are really 'surrendered' to whatever's to be -- or they're still reading tea leaves, doing Tarot readings, and -- yes -- casting charts in hopes that THIS time ...

Instead, what I HAVE seen is how ALL of the eclipses have affected ALL soul connexions to a significant degree, regardless of whether they're twin flames, soulmates, karmic partners -- whatever.

I don't mean to be antagonistic towards YOU, vesta -- please don't take it that way! I'm just a bit fed up with the continual promises being made throughout the community, surrounding 'just do X, and Union will happen!' or, worse, 'this new / full / gibbous / crescent / green corn / hare / strawberry super blue moon promises all runners will return and REUNION!'

Most of these 'runners' aren't even twin flames. The whole community is steeped in mass confusion resulting from consuming its own propaganda for so long it's one massive groupthink victim. It's inbred. It won't really allow any new, innovative, or contrary ideas in, so it keeps spouting and spreading the same hollow hopes, peddling its wares to desperate folk who want nothing more than to find love -- even though they need to be focussed upon self-love -- BUT I digress.

It's become a big business, and that infuriates me. I was eager and respectful and even proud to become part of a spiritual movement that unites eastern and western philosophy -- Christian charity and Buddhist yoga -- emphasising the importance of healing psychological issues (from childhood, namely) so as to avoid and void 'the ego' -- and unite -- EVENTUALLY -- with an equally mature, evolved individual who wants to join forces to realise the same purpose (or 'mission') that you do.

I can totally get behind that!

posted June 26, 2016 07:38 PM            

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Originally posted by Lucia23:
Dynamics in each natal chart, and dynamics in each person's life that I suspect might not be mappable by astrology at all, also play a big role. I suspect that mathematically and statistically, every human on earth has a lot of exact asteroid conjunctions with a lot of strangers they will never meet, and also with people who might not want a relationship with them, and a lot of probably-inaccurate rationalization is required to make it all check out.

I think synastry and composites are useful as tools for looking at possibilities, symbolic energies, areas of harmony or challenge----they aren't complete nonsense---but I am very skeptical that they can be accurately used as tools to predict that any two people are twin flames.

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I do, too, honestly. I also know that we've never derived a data set FROM that population. It's worth a go.

I also call it the 'commonsense test', whenever students have come to me saying, 'OMG, there's this guy who's connected to my mom who once knew a guy who's yoga teacher dated a waiter -- AND WE HAVE AN EXACT OSIRIS-ISIS CONJUNCTION!'

No. He's not your soulmate. Mathematically-speaking, it's gonna happen -- a lot. In fact, MAYBE, if you wanna get crazy -- it happened SO we can have this conversation and you can realise that it happens A LOT.

posted June 26, 2016 07:39 PM            

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Isn't it quite possible that those people who identify as twin flames and VBlog about it and coach other twin flames are just... capitalizing on other people's deep desire for true intimacy and soul union?

I would honestly be most wary of those who are selling anything to do with Twin Flame unions...

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posted June 26, 2016 07:51 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
... there is a big difference between the charts of a couple and the charts of a non-couple.

There are many statistically identifiable markers for long-term happy couples, because the archetypes of love and relationships are reflected and comprised in the astrological myths and archetypes.

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posted June 26, 2016 07:54 PM            

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Originally posted by Lucia23:
Not only will each of us, statistically, have relationship markers with strangers.....we'll also have them with people we meet. So it's easy to misuse these technologies to fantasize some special fated romantic connection that does not exist. That's one reason why the Twin Flame Astrology Initiative 1.0 came up with soooo many false positives that this thread is about scrapping it and trying again.

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posted June 26, 2016 07:57 PM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
Aubyanne, that is a very honest thread you are starting. I command you for searching the truth on this subject because it is often mired in wishful thinking proclamations.

I suggest only studying people who have been together for at least 20 years. Historical couples are also a good subject even if we may not have the crucial information of their birth time.

Also, among the researchers, a good mix of believers, non-believers and neutral on the subject of Twin Flame will help maintain the integrity of the research.

I am very good at finding patterns. I would love to participate in this research if I can.

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posted June 26, 2016 08:06 PM            

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Originally posted by Lucia23:
... I do believe that astrology works predictively when used in a nuanced way, but I think it's a map, and a map is not the territory. That's why this thread is heading in a more fruitful direction than the one years ago,---it will point to interesting markers common in synastries/composites of people who FEEL like "Twin Flames" in their relationships and who have mutual, long-term relationships.

But it won't account for the people in need of a therapist who score high on the Twin Flame list with their colleague who is threatening to get a restraining order (because he's "running away from the powerful connection between us")....,and then people online will explain that he's not the poster's Twin Flame, he's just a soulmate and it's a "karmic relationship"-----when really, it isn't anything but someone obsessive (which I believe will be readable in their natal, and the aspects/placements indicating that could be tested on a large scale and found accurate) using this very alluring idea of a Twin Flame or Soulmate calculator to glorify their relationship or non-relationship. And it's likely to conflate good-long-term-relationship indicators with Twin Flame indicators.

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I've got to speak to this second paragraph, Lucia, as it's the very reason why I've selected the population I have. Starting out, the BIG issue was hypothesising 'soulmate pairings' as being key 'markers' in twin flame astrology. Which has been pretty much entirely wrong.

I absolutely would love to later isolate what we're seeing in this astrology that corresponds to that which we've seen in long-term, successful couples in happy marriages.

But as it stands, what I've been calling 'hashtag because twin flame' is a REAL problem, justifying all kinds of really unhealthy behaviour. I'm really tired of that group being lumped into the overall 'twin flame community' so that more 'chasers' can be assured because of X, Y, or Z, that 'the runner is returning', and they just have to keep on eating their veggies and cleansing their chakras. (NO offence meant to either veggies or chakras.)

posted June 26, 2016 08:32 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Thank you, Belage. I'd be honoured to have you involved. There's not a lot of the 2-decades-or-more couples who also have been involved in a spiritual movement or initiative, (prior to, say, 2000, this was 'twin souls' or even just 'Indigo Children' -- it's just dusted off and given a new name) but I think if I dig, I can at least get a handful together.

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What do you suggest should be the minimum amount of time being together in terms of looking at a TF couple? it would be good to go past that initial rosy bloom most new relationships have, and focus on couples that are settled in a relationship.

Also, I was wondering, why would TF relationships be so rare? Did the Creator made some souls TF and others, just regla souls? Or could it be that we all have a TF but it takes a certain level of spiritual evolution to reunite with our TF in a particular lifetime?

We may not be able to answer those questions...

posted June 26, 2016 08:33 PM            

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Originally posted by vesta:
... Plus there is another angel medium who also talks to the archangels and she confirmed that information ...

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Ohhhhh, I bet I know exactly who that is.

Anyway. This is NOT to devolve into a debate regarding the origins, practise, or purpose of twin flames. It's ALSO not to be about whether twin flames have karma, are graduate souls, are 'angels on Earth' or starseeds -- there's PLENTY of that goin' down in Soul Unions. So, let's keep it there, aye?

posted June 26, 2016 08:37 PM            

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Originally posted by Lucia23:
If it's true that, counter to the websites I read, finding your Twin doesn't require any particular level of evolution, that worries me even more----then there's no deterrent or discouragement for people to decide, based on the conjunctions between asteroids Union and Desperate, that the Pisces they met online who slept with them once and hasn't called, or the Virgo colleague who asked them to please leave him alone, is really their Twin and he's just running away because he's scared about the karmic depths of their connection (versus running away because he's scared because they're a loony stalker.)

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posted June 26, 2016 08:43 PM            

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Well... the criteria being:

two people who identify as twin flames and are fully out together as such...

being as it is, I guess that working within that conceptual framework makes sense. Let's study people who adhere to the twin flame theory /methodology ... and we'll get a certain kind of person, a certain kind of couple of people.... There might be similarities between these pairs... there might not. A strong emphasis on the importance of deep committed relationship I wouldn't be surprised to see in the natals of those people. The similarities we see between them would be correlated though to the whole twin flame framework... somehow. Their reasons for identifying with the twin flame thing will be different of course... as individual as any unique being in the countless universes...

Be that as it may, working with people who identify as twin flames seems like a very sensible starting point if one is going to research this phenomena.

And while it may have a substantial phenomenology, twin flame methodology is largely a conceptual framework, not necessarily an absolute spiritual/physical/consensual reality.. except for the people experiencing it as being true...

Likely we have no way of verifying truth.. that is antithetical...

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posted June 26, 2016 09:01 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
There is going to be no TF until we are exquisite by ourselves, and when both TFs are ready and they meet, they experience paradise together, not restraining orders.

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Yes! A thousand times, 'yes'! The runner / chaser business has always frankly gotten me -- rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not saying that they HAVE gotten together, but then it just might be offering false hope to others, because NO RELATIONSHIP IS EXACTLY THE SAME. While X and Y had C relationship, A and B might be having D relationship, expecting C. Nobody wins. Especially when abuse is involved. But nobody likes me pointing out that they shouldn't be abusing each other. In fact, I'm really an acquired taste in the twin flame community.

I was finally labelled 'Heyoka' and kindly ejected from one of the larger sacred circles. Hey, it is what it is. We're still friends -- that's the whole 'soul family' thing, and we all do buy into that, very honestly. But right now, I'm really to do my own thing free of the constraints of the community as a whole. It's great! Free to not please anybody, or receive the approval of 'the soul tribe' -- to challenge what needs challenging, and carve my own path.

Frankly, I'm relieved to not have to hold my tongue, for fear of upsetting the apple-cart.

Like you, Lee -- to me -- twin flames come together to unite their two complementary (or even mirrored) paths into one for the purpose of a greater mission. Maybe it's to make amazing art that heals an aspect of humanity. (Ahem ... :: cough, cough :: ) Maybe it's to help the planet by cleaning up their city, or providing care and shelter to those suffering trauma, or even to take back their own intellectual power, so as to be more informed members of society. From my observations, twin flames have a pretty wide range of ways they're contributing to 'making the world better' in some way, and I appreciate seeing such diversity.

The dark side -- its shadow -- is the abusive 'karmic relationship' cycle (as opposed to dharmic relationship, let's say) which is being repackaged as 'twin flames in separation'.

Oh, Lord, help me!

What I think Lucia's trying to convey, is something with which I wholeheartedly agree: too many are using the 'twin flame' label to justify holding onto what's -- honestly, not EVEN a relationship. Just an unhealthy obsession. But, hey, they're learning. It's their path. That's what they're obviously to do.

posted June 26, 2016 09:04 PM            

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Originally posted by Lucia23:
But does that mean all of the people who believe they've found their twins, but are not actually in relationships with them, and the supposed twin doesn't identify as such (and isn't even involved with them) won't be included?

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Yes. I can't do grey-area inclusion right now. Maybe later. I need very clear, objective criteria.

posted June 26, 2016 09:10 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
You can't consider someone your Twin without mutuality and a love relationship, this is the meaning of the word Twinflame and the definition of the concept.

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YES! In fact, the ONLY reason why I've FINALLY taken to even referring to him AS my twin, is because we've had The Talk, and gone through multiple experiences which led us to go, 'okay, we don't necessarily jibe with the terminology here, but we grok the concept, and it's the closest thing which comes to what we know we're experiencing.' Really, we're looking for another term.

Anyway, we personally don't believe anyone should even be calling someone 'their twin flame' UNLESS the OTHER individual is fully aware of this, and in agreement.

My boyfriend vacillates. He's not ready for 'the big leagues' because even so much as my husband playing the 'you know, I think it's all BS' card is enough to make him go, 'you know I am also highly sceptical of the concept', even as he's amenable to the 'twin flame thing' WHEN in the presence of those identifying AS twin flames.

But, really. Wherever I can, I just try and be familiar enough with whomever I'm communicating with, so that he's just Jack. It's a helluva lot easier.

The other big thing I see is unconditional love. That's the one that's echoed over and over again. 'We love each other unconditionally.'

Reeeeeeeally? So, this 'unconditional love' has been tested ... right?

posted June 26, 2016 10:02 PM            

Looks a little crazy. Plus a lot the videos seem to parrot each other (why do they always laugh about nonsense at the beginning while smiling at each other?).

This is a whole trend/phenomenon that I didn't know about at all.

Sorry, just wanted to clarify, after my previous comment. Joking about "my Twin" and having no idea of the impression I might've given. (Never heard of runner, union, Phase II, all the jargon being used.)

posted June 26, 2016 11:36 PM            

Soulmate or 'karmic' relationships tend to be the 'frogs' of the spiritual world, with twin flames being the magnum opus, the ultimate -- the dharmic relationship. The one that is future rather than past oriented. And this is true, to some extent. But it's not ONLY twin flame relationships that are dharmic, even if they might be the best example.

It's also rare, really, to find one's twin flame, and be a twin flame. It's because you're here for big things. Period. And, if you don't have any idea of what those big things might be, and you're seduced by the happily-ever-after promise of a perfect romance -- that's really only a part of the equation. It's a package. You can't take anything less than all of it, either.

I'm not married to the label, either. I get that the draw is 'ultimate romance'. But I wish we'd distinguish this rare type of connexion from the many other, far more likely connexions, to occur.

posted June 27, 2016 03:29 AM            

The Davison is showing some patterns.

Oddly enough, in every case for the population I'm presently studying, we're seeing a 2-3º conjunction of either EROS and PSYCHE, ISIS and OSIRIS, and the SUN and MOON.

Huh. Well, the jibes. ALMA seems involved more than to be expected on the average, too. ANGEL sometimes, but not UNION.

posted June 27, 2016 03:31 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Wow, before this thread I had no idea how much stuff was on YouTube about it. I had only looked at the people I linked to earlier. Now it does seem like all the TFs are selling something?

Looks a little crazy. Plus a lot the videos seem to parrot each other (why do they always laugh about nonsense at the beginning while smiling at each other?).

This is a whole trend/phenomenon that I didn't know about at all.

Sorry, just wanted to clarify, after my previous comment. Joking about "my Twin" and having no idea of the impression I might've given. (Never heard of runner, union, Phase II, all the jargon being used.)

Edit: Also, sorry if any of that sounded rude!

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Not rude in the least. As I've already said, Faith, I'm ... uh ... ... Yeah. It's kind of insane how much of it's become commercialised within the past -- what, 2 years? If that?

posted June 27, 2016 04:36 AM            

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Originally posted by athenaia:
Auby, are you still on the same page with IQ regarding these new TF markers? I recently had a reading with him about my new boyfriend and he said it wasn't a TF relationship. Either it's way it's fine by me as we're together and happy, but now that I've seen this post do I wonder about that particular comment..

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I'm not, actually. We both agreed that there's been too many false positives to consider the previous round of twin flame astrology truly valid in a predictive sense.

By false positives, I mean declaring that my karmic soulmate / catalyst was my twin, and that my twin and I have no 'twin flame signature', thus, a soulmate. A high level soulmate, but a soulmate.

In short, he got it backwards. I'm actually grateful, and still work with him regularly. It's been tremendously helpful to have the 'perfect textbook twin flame composite' with a karmic soulmate, so that we KNOW this can happen.

Since then, I've desperately wanted to get my hands on this kind of twin flame data, to create a new population.

I'm really glad that you're happy in a new relationship! I'd caution thinking it's a twin flame connexion, though. '5D relationships' -- psychic phenomena, astral travel, karmic history, intense attraction and devotion -- are becoming more common as 'standards' are raised. Many relationships of this nature will be '5D connexions' as opposed to twin flames. Sure, maybe 1 out of 500,000 will be, but it's tough to say that that's that one. That's just a random number actually.

posted June 27, 2016 05:59 AM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Not rude in the least. As I've already said, Faith, I'm ... uh ... ... Yeah. It's kind of insane how much of it's become commercialised within the past -- what, 2 years? If that?

Don't get me wrong -- I've made friends with some VERY cool folks. But I've also encountered plenty of ... well ... less savoury types.

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posted June 27, 2016 07:43 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Auby,

glad to see you include Davison charts.

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