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Author Topic:   @todd Help with composite chart!
Dwhelps
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posted October 20, 2020 03:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi todd! Hope your internet troubles are better now.
If you see this, can you take a look at this couple's composite chart and give some insight?
It's not me.
http://imgur.com/a/ewvuZBM

Thank you!

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Randall
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posted October 22, 2020 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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todd
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posted October 22, 2020 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This composite a bit confusing though there are distinct elements,it is not clear how these influences operate.
Jupiter opposed to juno/moon ,trine to Uranus and sextile to Chiron is characteristic of a relationship in a fanacial or educational framework.the moon could point to a emotional connection or emphasize the with mans superior position.
The is a pattern of emotional content so a
romantic involvement can't be ruled out but the emotionally connection seems conditional rather than spontaneous.
The sun/mercury conjunction is oppossed to Venus/nessus and trine to pluto.this can bring very strong sexual chemistry but the corresponding emotion fervor is missing.that why I call this conditional,other emotional or outside factor have as much exuberance influence as the inherent emotional chemistry.
Nessus with Venus adds a darker sexual/ emotional experience.it is as if there are deeper emotional issues that take the innocent pleasure out of these physical unions.

Neptune is square the node which brings duplicity to
mind.with mars square the Pluto/saturn midpoint and the neptune/Jupiter midpoint conjunct to mars,it one possibility is that this a marriage or a proposed marriage but he is a bit of a rogue if not a outright abuser and he is that only interested in the monetary advantages he may get by being with her.
With swindle square to lie and the Neptune/mars midpoint conjunct to nemesis, he is likely not even overly attracted to her but is simply trying to aggrandizes himself monetarily.
For her part with the moon/Pluto midpoint square to Orcus,she seems have repressed memories of a extreme,likely sexual, abuse in childhood for her not to have picked up on his true nature.
That might be reflected by dejaniera conjunct Neptune and square the node
todd

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Dwhelps
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posted October 23, 2020 06:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi todd,
Many thanks for taking the time to look!

I guess I am not the only one who finds it a bit confusing. I had an interpretation from Stoika previously.
They've gotten engaged just recently. But for me, something seems off.
I think you are pretty spot on... you really are very insightful.
he might not let in on it.. but you might be right about a 'monetary' advantage... she's a physician...
I've wondered....

I'm surprised though that you think he's not attracted to her...?
I see the intense physical/sexual chemistry too.. in the charts and in person.. and he's told me so that they have a strong spark. but maybe there is a lack of emotional component like you said?.. in person, something's off.. but I can't quite put my finger on it.
Even though they seem like a great match in other ways.
I guess it's what you said.. that there's emotional component to it.. but it doesn't quite match the level of intensity shown in the physical/sexual/dark feel.
Do you think it'll be a good marriage?


Also, do you mind looking at my composite chart with my ex?!
You really see layers to the charts that I can't even grasp yet!
http://imgur.com/a/qc0mpDF


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todd
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posted October 23, 2020 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwhelps:
Hi todd,
Many thanks for taking the time to look!

I guess I am not the only one who finds it a bit confusing. I had an interpretation from Stoika previously.
They've gotten engaged just recently. But for me, something seems off.
I think you are pretty spot on... you really are very insightful.
he might not let in on it.. but you might be right about a 'monetary' advantage... she's a physician...
I've wondered....

I'm surprised though that you think he's not attracted to her...?
I see the intense physical/sexual chemistry too.. in the charts and in person.. and he's told me so that they have a strong spark. but maybe there is a lack of emotional component like you said?.. in person, something's off.. but I can't quite put my finger on it.
Even though they seem like a great match in other ways.
I guess it's what you said.. that there's emotional component to it.. but it doesn't quite match the level of intensity shown in the physical/sexual/dark feel.
Do you think it'll be a good marriage?


Also, do you mind looking at my composite chart with my ex?!
You really see layers to the charts that I can't even grasp yet!
http://imgur.com/a/qc0mpDF



The "not really attracted to her" is by inference.the mars/Neptune mp is conjunct nemesis which he is a player,so it is not so much he isn't attracted but rather his nature is to have affairs to the detriment of the relationship.

It looks like the marriage will last.she is very committed to it and their emotional connection does have supportive
and constancy . longterm I still think his deceptive side will come out...or maybe not,she may not see it.
I'll check out your character tomorrow or the next.

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Dwhelps
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posted October 23, 2020 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are absolutely correct! She IS incredibly committed to the relationship. I think the marriage will last too....

Perhaps we really do accept the love we think we deserve.

I see the inferences you are making now... you’re incredibly perceptive! Can we always make guesses to the man’s character thru Mars and the woman’s thru Moon? Does it make any difference whether the masculine character in the rs is more the woman, say she wears the pants?
Kinda crazy and scary at the same time... it’s like we can’t overcome what’s written in the stars.
You’re right about him though... won’t admit it... but I think it’s his shadow. He’s definitely got the rogue thing going.... I guess time (and self control and perhaps self acceptance) will tell!


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todd
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posted October 24, 2020 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwhelps:
You are absolutely correct! She IS incredibly committed to the relationship. I think the marriage will last too....

Perhaps we really do accept the love we think we deserve.

I see the inferences you are making now... you’re incredibly perceptive! Can we always make guesses to the man’s character thru Mars and the woman’s thru Moon? Does it make any difference whether the masculine character in the rs is more the woman, say she wears the pants?
Kinda crazy and scary at the same time... it’s like we can’t overcome what’s written in the stars.
You’re right about him though... won’t admit it... but I think it’s his shadow. He’s definitely got the rogue thing going.... I guess time (and self control and perhaps self acceptance) will tell!



You right ,the symbols can be reversed if the woman wears the pants,but 90% of the time in a 2 person composite,the gender follows the accepted attributions.
I use Saturn and mars for initial gender identification and Venus and moon for women.both the moon and Saturn can apply to larger characteristics in a composite. But ascertaining concepts of loyalty etc I always look at moon/Saturn as female/male.
I also like to interpret symbols together that have a distinct polarity like eros/psyche.it adds an addition dynamic to the symbols affect.
I haven't forgot about your other request

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Dwhelps
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posted October 25, 2020 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you’re a great help, todd!
Thank you so much for sharing what you look for to ascertain male and female aspects... that really helps me zero in on what to look for in a composite.
Still learning when it comes to polarity aspects like Eros/psyche.

With that composite it’s confused me a bit because their synastry (I know you don’t look at synastry much) shows the woman being the Mars (her Mars is conj his ASC) and in real life... she really pursued him proactively.
But - that said... what you interpreted abt the composite resonates with me fully. So I think despite her having very strong masculine characteristics on the surface (taking charge, chasing etc) deep down in their dynamic, she’s still the feminine.

No worries abt my own composite! Take your time. I know you’ve got it 😄 many thanks!

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todd
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posted October 25, 2020 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi
At first glance ,there are very favorable aspects for a long-term relationship.there is a sense of destiny I would think you mutually might have considered marriage.
With Jupiter conjunct the node and IC and these sextiles to venus/karma,it almost seems as if a marriage was was for gone conclusion when you first met.
With the vertex conjunct Lilith,there was a deep sense that this was one for the ages.

But the detail and undeying different personality characteristic made it unravel .

The Mars/Neptune midpoint is opposed to the vertex/Lilith suggesting he had sensitivities the seemed totally in sync with you on many planes.almost a dream man.

But the moon is square Uranus and square lie which suggests his lines lead to the breakup.
In addition mars is square to mercury and swindle.is aspect can lead to incessant bickering,here over some dubious behavior on his part.in addition the Venus/Uranus midpoint is square to the Saturn/chiron opposition which suggest he was very controlling and wanted to restrict you behavior and friends.I would also suspect that the mars/Neptune opposition ultimately lead to infidelity.
This chart is bit like the previous chart.though only time will tell how much.

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Dwhelps
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posted October 26, 2020 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello,
I'm surprised you say there are very favorable aspects for a long term relationship!
We did not last. He's the reason I got into astrology in the first place. And when I looked at our composite the first time, I thought it was terrible.
"Oh gee wish I'd seen the charts earlier..." that was my initial take. Could have saved me the time and heartbreak.

But yes.. marriage was definitely on the table.. we had that sort of intention I think pretty early on.
We definitely bickered a lot. You are right about that.
Yes, I do agree he had sensitivities that were really in sync with me.. and I definitely wanted him to be my forever. He did feel like my dream guy for a long while....
but in retrospect... I think it's his charm. He really knew how to play to my ideals/fantasies and spark that feeling inside me of finding my dream guy - in hindsight, I find that dishonest of him.

Why is vertex conj Lilith a deep sense this is one for the ages? I mean why would that aspect be interpreted that way? I was under the impression Lilith meant... evil... negative connotations...

We argued a lot. It did have to do with dubious behavior on his part which lead to my insecurity as well. And there was sort of infidelity.. definitely deception in the end.
As for controlling.. it shows he was controlling of me?
He claimed I was controlling of him... I think I partly was....but I think he was also restrictive to me in a different way than I was to him. I could however see that... if we'd stayed together he might have become more controlling/overbearing with time.
I think I was "controlling" in a reasonable way... he however wasn't... in retrospect, I think he is a very selfish person. He blindsided me in many ways and was not communicative and honest... it was always HIS way.
I was constantly making compromises and concessions for him.

Why is this chart like the previous? He seems like a rogue/player/wandering eye?

My ex was incredibly charming and pretty popular with the ladies despite not being good-looking at all. It felt harmless and I let it pass but with time it really did bother me.. He also became like a Jekyll and Hyde character in our aftermath. The guy did a 180. Became pretty cruel... and I found out... how much integrity he lacks.

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todd
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posted October 26, 2020 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwhelps:
Hello,
I'm surprised you say there are very favorable aspects for a long term relationship!
We did not last. He's the reason I got into astrology in the first place. And when I looked at our composite the first time, I thought it was terrible.
"Oh gee wish I'd seen the charts earlier..." that was my initial take. Could have saved me the time and heartbreak.

But yes.. marriage was definitely on the table.. we had that sort of intention I think pretty early on.
We definitely bickered a lot. You are right about that.
Yes, I do agree he had sensitivities that were really in sync with me.. and I definitely wanted him to be my forever. He did feel like my dream guy for a long while....
but in retrospect... I think it's his charm. He really knew how to play to my ideals/fantasies and spark that feeling inside me of finding my dream guy - in hindsight, I find that dishonest of him.

Why is vertex conj Lilith a deep sense this is one for the ages? I mean why would that aspect be interpreted that way? I was under the impression Lilith meant... evil... negative connotations...

We argued a lot. It did have to do with dubious behavior on his part which lead to my insecurity as well. And there was sort of infidelity.. definitely deception in the end.
As for controlling.. it shows he was controlling of me?
He claimed I was controlling of him... I think I partly was....but I think he was also restrictive to me in a different way than I was to him. I could however see that... if we'd stayed together he might have become more controlling/overbearing with time.
I think I was "controlling" in a reasonable way... he however wasn't... in retrospect, I think he is a very selfish person. He blindsided me in many ways and was not communicative and honest... it was always HIS way.
I was constantly making compromises and concessions for him.

Why is this chart like the previous? He seems like a rogue/player/wandering eye?

My ex was incredibly charming and pretty popular with the ladies despite not being good-looking at all. It felt harmless and I let it pass but with time it really did bother me.. He also became like a Jekyll and Hyde character in our aftermath. The guy did a 180. Became pretty cruel... and I found out... how much integrity he lacks.


I use astronomical characteristic in addition to mythological interpretations.if I am referring to Lilith as the temptress, then I would use the asteroid. But I don't buy into to this mythology.I believe this a later indo-european misogynistic characterization of the Primal woman.
I believe true lilith is the foci of the sun/moon orbit.a circular orbit has a single center point around which the satellite revolves.the sun/moon orbit is a eclipse. A eclipse is defined by 2 points which the sun/moon revolve,the foci.the far foci is true lilith,the near foci which is actually within the mass of the sun .the true position is called priapus.
So i interpret true lilith as a combination of the solar and lunar energises.the the sun and moon are the main primal energies of the chart,so to me Lilith is the undifferentiated unconscious/subconscious emotional energy in the chart.so to me it is the deepest level source of emotional/mental sensitivity and responses.hence feelings of lilith seem to arise spontaneously in to the natives consciousness. I sometimes l say from their deepest heart felt feelings,but this is figurative and not literal.
So in your situation the feeling of destiny(vertex) arouse spontaneously from your heart,hence one for the ages.

Botb charts had strong Jupiter node connections and supporting trine emotional aspects.

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Dwhelps
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posted October 27, 2020 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much for your thorough explanation and rationale behind Lilith!
That’s certainly different from how I’ve been interpreting it in charts so far.
I had thought Lilith represented someone’s dark side.. subconscious dark/shadow side. So I had interpreted that the Vertex conj Lilith meant we brought darkness/trouble/mb even cruelty into each other’s lives.

I think your take translates a lot more into our real life dynamic than mine so that is a perspective I’ll take with me as I look at future charts.
Thank you so much for sharing from your vast knowledge, todd.

There’s also something else I want to clarify.... I know from other posts that you look at composites but not synastry. Why is that?
I’ve been looking at synastry sometimes to figure out which dynamic I see in the composite is played out by who. For eg. before I wasn’t able to tell the man from the woman in the composite... I would look at the synastry to see a certain aspect that stood out in the composite - and then from there figure out who was the one perpetuating the behavior (say Orcus or Nemesis or Nessus).

About my composite with my ex... despite the meaningful connections, it looks like there were significant differences, frequent arguing and high possibility of infidelity involved right? As in.... it wouldn’t have worked out? Or if it had, it would be quite a compromising relationship?
I mean to say.... the first chart looks better right? My chart with my ex doesn’t look like it would be very happy or healthy long-term right?

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todd
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posted October 27, 2020 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwhelps:
Thank you so much for your thorough explanation and rationale behind Lilith!
That’s certainly different from how I’ve been interpreting it in charts so far.
I had thought Lilith represented someone’s dark side.. subconscious dark/shadow side. So I had interpreted that the Vertex conj Lilith meant we brought darkness/trouble/mb even cruelty into each other’s lives.

I think your take translates a lot more into our real life dynamic than mine so that is a perspective I’ll take with me as I look at future charts.
Thank you so much for sharing from your vast knowledge, todd.

There’s also something else I want to clarify.... I know from other posts that you look at composites but not synastry. Why is that?
I’ve been looking at synastry sometimes to figure out which dynamic I see in the composite is played out by who. For eg. before I wasn’t able to tell the man from the woman in the composite... I would look at the synastry to see a certain aspect that stood out in the composite - and then from there figure out who was the one perpetuating the behavior (say Orcus or Nemesis or Nessus).

About my composite with my ex... despite the meaningful connections, it looks like there were significant differences, frequent arguing and high possibility of infidelity involved right? As in.... it wouldn’t have worked out? Or if it had, it would be quite a compromising relationship?
I mean to say.... the first chart looks better right? My chart with my ex doesn’t look like it would be very happy or healthy long-term right?


In regards to synastry,I have a saying that is a bit simplistic but...synastry shows how you hit it off,composites show how you get it on.
Basically when two people merge,some of their individual characteristics will modify.synastry can not anticipate this as it well as composites can describe the emergent characteristics.how often have you heard "he/she was not like that before we got together".?
Another reason is that on a this forum, i like to hope that my interpretations will have a functional value .it seems that people can understand the dynamics in a relation easier and if their are problems they can make changes for adjustment.
But in natal analysis the individuals seem to be more rooted in their self beliefs.and it is much more difficult to change one self .
I do Natal's but look to composites first because I think I can have more of a affect with composites. If that makes sense.

Also synastry is more complicated to reach conclusions.you have more planets and aspects to consider and whose planets with all be stronger etc.composite chart give a single set of symbols.

Also transits of the relationship are easier to see.this is the major area in which I find composites clearly superior to synastry

One area I do look at synastry is when there are generational aspects, especially hard aspects like Uranus square Saturn/Pluto for instance.in these situation if both individuals have this in their Natal's then the malefic nature of the aspect might not doom the relationship because they have live through and worked out this aspect.but it neither partner had the malefic aspect then I would interpret this particular aspect as dooming the relationship.
When in a quandary as to which aspect relates to who,and this becomes more of a question in multi composite charts,then my preference is to use named asteroids as this gives definitive assignments who with what.

Again it comes down to personal preference and I find my time more economically used with composites

As to your composite,the differences are greater than the similarities with the first chart,but it struck that both charts had strong marriage characteristic and uncertainties regarding the "hidden natures" of the man.it yours the difference are manifest where as in the former chart the differences are latent,if existent at all.

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Dwhelps
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posted October 28, 2020 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Sauerkraut
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posted October 28, 2020 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sauerkraut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wow, vent away! (i wont quote it)

i learned awhile ago that you cant make someone see your point of view. she might never see him for the truth and they might have a “successful” marriage built on lies. its the same guy with different reactions from two different girls. you dont want that but maybe shes okay with it. she doesnt call him out so it makes it easier for him to lie or cheat vs. being with you. thats their karma, not the karma that you think they deserve.

i kind of know how you feel - like how can someone get away with so much? in a lot of aspects, he reminds me of my ex - the gaslighting, the charm and the deception. if i had given him the benefit of the doubt, we would probably be married for life. from the outside, we looked like a successful couple. the actual relationship was horrible and felt fake but i didnt value my feelings back then. hes the type to flaunt a relationship to look like a good boy to the outside world so he could carry on with secret affairs. the arian nature in us wont let that happen though, you could never be happy with that right? i see it as a blessing that you got away from him.

one of the many positive lessons i learned from this was to not be so quick to believe facades, to slow down - because building trust and seeing someones true character takes time.

i hope youre just venting and not as distraught as you come across. otherwise, please be good to yourself. they might never care and you gotta accept that for your own peace.

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todd
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posted October 28, 2020 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow
I find the "christian" aspects interesting as he seemed to use this belief system to hide from his own desires.
You might add the asteroid yeshua to the charts to see if this sheds and light on his deceptive nature.
One question..is his fiance Christian also?

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todd
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posted October 28, 2020 06:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeshuhua 3241

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Dwhelps
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posted October 28, 2020 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Dwhelps
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posted October 28, 2020 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Todd, NO! His fiancé isn't Christian!
That's the other thing. I was Christian-ish. Yet he said to me "Oh... you're not a believer blah blah blah" and his mom and sister tried to 'convert' me even though I was already Christian - just not the in-your-face kind they were.

But here he is, going to marry a very obviously NON-Christian woman... and his sister and mom are suddenly okay with it?

It's the huge contradictions.. and hypocrisy that really drove/drive me up a wall. And has got me 'investigating' into this all this time.

I'll add Yeshua onto the Composite? Or his natal?

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Dwhelps
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posted October 28, 2020 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh my god.. It's right at the Neptune.... which is conj our Asc in Composite. And square the nodes.
@Todd

[IMG] http://imgur.com/a/2CxxvCm [/IMG]

His Neptune is also conjunct his MC in Natal which is directly opposite his Venus which is near his IC.
Stoika (and I) both had previously interpreted that as him always being away from home for work (he's a permanent nomad on assignments for work - moves every 2 years or so)


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todd
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posted October 28, 2020 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What chart did you post that had Neptune/asc/yeshuhua stellium?

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Dwhelps
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posted October 28, 2020 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwhelps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Todd, that’s my composite with him!

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outofideas
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posted October 29, 2020 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outofideas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Todd, would you say Mars opposite the Saturn/Pluto midpoint (which also conjuncts Neptune) marks the male as passive-aggressive and abusive? As well as fantasing about (sexually) abusing the female?

Sorry to ask, Dwhelps, just wondering.

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todd
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posted October 29, 2020 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwhelps:
@Todd, that’s my composite with him!

Wow
That boggles my mind.it really describes what happened.it hard to believe he and his family won't receive divine retribution.

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todd
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posted October 29, 2020 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by outofideas:
Todd, would you say Mars opposite the Saturn/Pluto midpoint (which also conjuncts Neptune) marks the male as passive-aggressive and abusive? As well as fantasing about (sexually) abusing the female?

Sorry to ask, Dwhelps, just wondering.



That is quite possible .I would also look for afflicted aspects with Saturn and or pysche

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