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Author
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Topic: Superstition and belief
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maven
Knowflake Posts: 19
From: Rennes-le-Chateau
Registered: May 2004
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posted June 06, 2004 01:32 PM
 
*LOL* Very good thought process LLL.I don't think I myself could have typed all of that out.Isn't it funny how sometimes you want to say things that you can "see" in your head but when you try to release them on paper it just all gets muddled?Maybe that is just my thought process LOL!I think when you talk about belief and faith the line can get somewhat blurred.I react to certain things based on what I believe and what I know I have learned through careful years of study.On the flipside my husband reacts to the same stimulus based on faith..the faith he has to conquer certain subjects and situations.Although we are very different it helps to have two varying perspectives on a common point..gives you a more enlightened view of the real problem at hand (whatever that may be at the moment).Of course it can also lead to heated arguments (but then again that might just be us LOL!).Blessings......maven------------------
"I am an enigma,wrapped up in a mystery,shrouded by lies" IP: Logged |
quiksilver
Knowflake Posts: 135
From: new jersey, usa
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted June 06, 2004 01:37 PM
Thank you, LL Leo, for your in-depth response! Well, I can appreciate your equating "YOU" with a Higher Spirit. After all, we are all body and spirit together, I think. The body is temporal but the spirit endures, so yes, I can see how it would make sense that this SPIRIT is the real "YOU". I like how you make a point of separating the "Ego" from the real "YOU", as well. You might say there are two sides of the idea of "YOU" - one that consists of the petty EGO, whose purpose is to satisfy the less elevated demands of the body and mind, and the reverse of the ego which is the HIGHER SELF/SPIRIT, whose purpose it is to fight the power of the ego and overcome it for the purpose of attaining true faith, as you call it, whatever it might be. You said that faith lends itself to power over the ego and self. But when you say "self" in this instance, I am assuming you are talking about the "lower" self, the "body" self, right? I just want to differentiate between the idea of the lower self and the higher self.Also, you said, "belief and knowledge are illusions created by an illusion, the mind". But then you went on to say that "faith is knowing what you believe". However, if both knowledge and belief are illusions, then wouldn't it stand to reason (by this argument) that if you have faith in these things (which are, as you said, illusions), then your faith itself is also an illusion, or at the very least, that it is insignificant by virtue of the fact that it is based on illusionary ideas? Now, I know that I am getting into semantics here, but this is important and needs to be delved into. And the only way I could do this is by getting into the nitty-gritty of it - which means that it looks like what I'm doing here is playing with words for the sake of it, which isn't true. I'm just trying to get you to take a closer look at what you are saying and I myself am trying to understand as well. I really think you're on to something here but I think you're not expressing it as clearly as possible. How about this - there is such a thing as "you", obviously. If this was not the case, then who is writing this post? Certainly it is none other than MYSELF. Ok, it may be my "body" self, but nevertheless I am an ENTITY, albeit a lower form, possibly. However, the "you" is also connected to the whole -which is something much greater. We are part and parcel of everyone/thing else in creation and given this, it is our responsibility to think and act in such a way that rightfully honors this idea. So, there is still the concept of "you" with the realization that "you" are not just "you" but also a part of the WHOLE. WE are all one, right? Or at least, that is the way it should be? I might also sum up with the following:
"Treat others with love and respect, as YOU are also THEM". Of course, this might be considered self-centered but it's just a statement - not an explanation of why the statement bears truth .... What do you think? I think all that really matters (all of this "you", "knowledge" and "belief" business aside) is that you (whomever you think "you" are) consistently strive to be a better person than you were the day before. How can one go wrong with this idea? Sometimes it takes a lot of talk to get to the bottom line - which is usually quite simple!!! IP: Logged |
dafremen
Knowflake Posts: 755
From:
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted June 06, 2004 08:38 PM
What lies beyond the Higher S-elf? When the many that are one becomes the One that is only...what then? Is there simply a point at which we become the multitude in unison? Or is there a Union so perfect as to erase all but what in truth is the All that ever was? When does YOU cease to be you? Is there a point at which the individual melts away and God, ONLY God as God is, was and always will be shines through? Here there and everywhere, past present and future. Why MUST YOU and I exist as entities(identities?), spiritual, physical or otherwise which are separate from that of our Creator? The concept of Higher S-elf is a valid and helpful one. However, it is but a resting place at which the mind stops; unable to bear the thought of its nonexistence within the totality of God. It is another product of belief and a sign of our reliance on the concept of self.Love, daf P.S. No qiksilver. It is a gift of the experience that when you release the mind and allow the Universal Mind its just due, you will begin to know, through ITS ACTIONS upon you and everything around you, that which is, APART from that which you believe to be. Faith? Faith is a blind man's grip on his cane. IP: Logged |
LittleLadyLeo
Knowflake Posts: 61
From: New Franklin, MO, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted June 06, 2004 11:56 PM
Quicksilver, I apologize for the confusion in wording. You're right about the semantics of it, but that's the problem - there really are no words for what I mean. When I say faith I don't mean faith as we conseptualize it. I do not know of a word in the English (or any other) language for it. Also, you must remember that it is through our minds and egos that we express our "thoughts" here so there will naturally be some sense of inadequacy in what we say. Our Higher Selves have to communicate through the imperfect minds and bodies they reside in, thus 'temporary glitches and power failures will disrupt transmission.' I whole heartedly agree with Maven on this. Sometimes one "sees" what they wish to express but cannot find the words.And daf, without the cane the blind man will fall. Blessing to all!!  LLL IP: Logged |
dafremen
Knowflake Posts: 755
From:
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted June 07, 2004 12:26 AM
Blind Man Rides Bike UnassistedTell that to Daniel Kish. He regularly rides a bike without assistance using echolocation to guide himself around obstacles and over rough terrain. See, you can grab onto that cane with everything you have and assume that THAT is all there is, or you can learn to SEE. Dan decided that just because he was born blind, didn't mean that he couldn't see somehow, someday. We should all aspire to his example. daf P.S. Most blind folks are perfectly capable of standing without the aid of a cane. P.P.S. What you believe to be true and possible and what is ACTUALLY true and possible are two completely different things. Again belief fails the test of time. IP: Logged |
LittleLadyLeo
Knowflake Posts: 61
From: New Franklin, MO, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted June 07, 2004 12:53 AM
My apologies daf. I took your earlier statement as a figurative, not a literal. But I still stand by what I said. Each and every one of us has some sort of support to guide us through this world as we are all (figuratively) blind in one way or another. Multiple kudos to Daniel Kish. You're right about that. Blessings to you. LLL IP: Logged |
dafremen
Knowflake Posts: 755
From:
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted June 07, 2004 07:37 AM
It was a figurative...but the figurative and the literal complimented each other quite well in this instance. We walk through this life blind to the reality of what we are and could be, in no small way because of what we BELIEVE we are and what we've been led or come to believe that we could be. The possibilities truly are limitless, and yet, there is really only one reality in the final analysis; we are limitless because GOD is limitless and in the end, all that ever is, ever was and ever will be. Should we enjoy this thing that our mind and spirit have come to revel in as "individual" existence? By all means. Let's simply not stop there. There is a point of Unity that lies beyond our coming together as individuals. At that point, there ceases to be a YOU, a ME or an US. At that point there is ONLY the consciousness of God. This is the reality and the destination at the end of our becoming. We believed, until Daniel showed us otherwise, that a blind man could not see.
Daniel broke free from this belief and witnessed what he could become instead. He now teaches blind folks to see every single day. Love, daf IP: Logged |
quiksilver
Knowflake Posts: 135
From: new jersey, usa
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted June 07, 2004 11:53 PM
Quote:
__________________________________________
There is a point of Unity that lies beyond our coming together as individuals. At that point, there ceases to be a YOU, a ME or an US. At that point there is ONLY the consciousness of God. This is the reality and the destination at the end of our becoming.
__________________________________________That sounds like -- I don't know what it sounds like. I was going to say it sounds great, but I can't even comprehend it, so in truth I can't say it sounds like anything at all, except for an idea which I will think about and try to understand. Really though, the words themselves mean very little to me as I have never truly experienced this concept directly in my entire life to date (that I can recall).
So, while it is pretty far out to imagine, the words themselves do not practically assist me in getting to this point, and that is what I am most interested in; actually experiencing, not just semi-vicariously through another's eyes. It is fine to exchange written words to an extent but in the end, what will a person really understand? (It is the experience that matters.) As you once stated in another thread somewhere, it is one thing to get to the "door" and quite another to walk through it. Maybe we can talk more about how to get to this point ultimately, beyond stating that such a thing exists or is truth. We can all recognize that this may be possible, but how? I have a feeling you are going to refer me to another thread you started, something called the 5 point path, or something like that, if I remember correctly...... I myself am unable to offer many suggestions, since I have not directly acquired this type of experience. Hey, we are all learning. Some of us a little slowly, at that. I feel like I'm still in spiritual kindergarten sometimes.....Any practical advice will be wholeheartedly embraced. Cheers!!!
q.s.
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LittleLadyLeo
Knowflake Posts: 61
From: New Franklin, MO, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted June 07, 2004 11:57 PM
Try reading "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle, quicksilver. It has helped me immensely in ways I cannot even begin to put into words. Just a suggestion.Blessings to you. LLL IP: Logged |
FairyStar
Knowflake Posts: 81
From: Spring,Tx
Registered: May 2002
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posted June 08, 2004 05:26 PM
Thanks, LittleLadyLeo.
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quiksilver
Knowflake Posts: 135
From: new jersey, usa
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted June 08, 2004 07:23 PM
cool. thanks LLL  i'll check it out fo' sure!IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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