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Author Topic:   What would God think of divination (tarot/horary)?
Lethargic-
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posted July 20, 2015 01:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As in, is it all right to consult tarot/astrology for future events when you are supposed to have faith in God that things will happen a certain way.

I'm Christian (Catholic) myself so I was wondering what the other Christians out there think of this.

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MAKLHOUF
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posted July 20, 2015 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many religions warn against taking part in the occult, but religion itself is part of the occult. It is right to warn people not to get burned, but there is also a power thing going on there. They do not want you to have the power to figure things out yourself, because that reduces their power over you. They teach immortality after death, but you may decide you don't want to die first

------------------
And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places
Isaiah 45:3

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mirage29
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posted July 21, 2015 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I first read your comment, the old testament priestly garbs came to my mind. Especially the use of the tools called Urim and Thummim.

And the use of Prophets and Seers during those times...

(topic) Urim and Thummim (Yale lecture, excerpt) [4:10] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3Ytnt_AQck

(topic) Urim and Thummim (T.D. Jakes, preacher The Potter's House, excerpt) [4:18] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGuGXKdZSIo

___________________
oops!!!
NOTE: I had composed a long intellectual-type post here, but wasn't satisfied with results. Got so sleepy that I had no idea if it was as 'clear' as I wanted... so I edited it out before hitting the post-button.)

I left the two urls behind, though! They are short, and fascinating (at least, to me it was I LOVE this stuff!!...)

Hope the urls help with a small bit of direction, in order to answer some questions you may have. This is actually a GIANT Topic.

There's one more video I'm trying to find that explained how divination worked.

(Gotta go to bed, good night!) e/7-22, 624p

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Randall
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posted July 22, 2015 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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mirage29
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posted July 22, 2015 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I liked your comment, Mak!

Sorry for running from that post last night. My ideas were really good--- just suddenly at that point I got a strong wave of the sleepies.

So unusual... but then, I was shorter in sleep than usual too. When the eyeballs go all googley, it's time to give it up! There ain't no way!

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Lethargic-
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posted July 22, 2015 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MAKLHOUF:
Many religions warn against taking part in the occult, but religion itself is part of the occult. It is right to warn people not to get burned, but there is also a power thing going on there. They do not want you to have the power to figure things out yourself, because that reduces their power over you. They teach immortality after death, but you may decide you don't want to die first


What do you mean by "get burned"?

Also thank you everyone for you input . Usually one would be able to tell what is right and wrong in the eye of God by our conscience but with this matter it is simply hard to tell. I personally don't feel that it is wrong but priests and even my family have made it seem like wrong. Like reading horoscopes is a vice etc when they don't know astrology is much more than horoscopes.

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Lethargic-
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posted July 22, 2015 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Mirage
- so from what I understood in the videos you posted (second one in particular), divination will allow us to "determine the will of God" and his intentions for us,right? So God wants us to make this connection to him and ask him for the right decisions. I was a tad confused with the first video because it said divination wasn't on the same line of prophecy and was thus prohibited-right?
I can see how this could be a huge topic since I thought of free will versus predestination and the sort after making my last statement. This is really interesting stuff! Do you think a major in religious studies help encompass these kinds of questions or would say philosophy and religious studies be better?
Thank you so much for the videos by the way.

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MAKLHOUF
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posted July 24, 2015 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Getting burned means getting in too deep, getting in over your head, being unprepared, not doing your research, being lazy or even Lethargic.

------------------
And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places
Isaiah 45:3

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Lethargic-
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posted July 24, 2015 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ahh seriously reevaluating my choice of username- haha. So divination calls for discipline- but it's not like its prohibited, however.

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mirage29
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posted July 25, 2015 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lethargic-:
@Mirage
- so from what I understood in the videos you posted (second one in particular), divination will allow us to "determine the will of God" and his intentions for us, right? So God wants us to make this connection to him and ask him for the right decisions.

I was a tad confused with the first video because it said divination wasn't on the same line of prophecy and was thus prohibited-right?

I can see how this could be a huge topic since I thought of free will versus predestination and the sort after making my last statement. This is really interesting stuff! Do you think a major in religious studies help encompass these kinds of questions or would say philosophy and religious studies be better?
Thank you so much for the videos by the way.


Hi Letha... .... I don't usually 'whole quote' people, but I wanted to make sure all your thoughts were in my response. I'm glad you liked the videos, and you are asking some really important questions. Love it!!

I had come to respond to your response to me the same day, then, I hesitated... Felt inside to ask Spirit for help answering your question, instead. The next morning, an actual catholic priest actually 'answered' YOUR very question from the pulpit at the morning Mass I attended.... God surely Loves YOU, Letha! Cared enough to have the Priest answer the question. You're Important to Him.


I just-recently began to attend a catholic church again... Felt some kind of pull to attend church early in the morning, for prayer and dedicating my life and day and mornings towards the seeking of discreet directions for my life right now.

'Found' this church sorta 'accidently' (*smile*) the day after the New Moon in Cancer 23-degrees. The sanctuary was open, and I spent time in prayer. Saw they had daily masses, and decided 'for now' to make the commitment to my spiritual life and attend... It would be a sign to God that I was serious about things I'm asking.

I've been in super-transformation days right now. So, it's been important (when you're in times like that) to personally note and be aware when you are being 'pulled' towards something, like a Question, because it may not 'be' the object or thing or religion, but a need for you to explore "something that is there." Perhaps there's an important connection you would need to make through these searches in your life. It may not be 'the object' the cards, the church denomination, etc... but the Questions that your Soul is asking, right now.

The question about tarot, or finding answers in the clues surrounding us, is (to me) like the rolling looping and ever-evolving question 'what comes first~~ the chicken or the egg?'

My opinion is the zen-like 'Both' answer.... I think they go hand-in-hand, and we always have to keep in mind that we need to approach these things in the most-balanced ways we can find. When we find ourselves going too "overboard" with 'a single way' of moving towards something, that's when we also need to examine 'why'.... The answer may not be in stopping that direction, as much as we need to affirm or explore 'why' we do it, 'why' we ask that question.

If you have in any way given your life over to God, then rest that HE will nudge you (more than simple divining instruments), FROM a place INSIDE your spirit. Keep 'including' Him into your life. These kinds of outer-fascinations may tend to take you off-gravity a bit?... but Always come back to that Core Belief you have inside. Make HIM your priority, and all the other things in your life will fall into the order and steps they're supposed to happen in.


I'm 60 years old (end of May 2015), and have had a wide journey when it comes to religious interests and interests in what is called 'occult'....

I have been especially drawn towards the Mystical and the Supernatural parts of Christianity throughout my journey. I've read things (or been in study groups, or have had memberships with) the more-Christian types of elements in occult groups.
.... e.g. Yogananda is Hindu, but their sect lists Jesus in the line of their heritage of Gurus, as 'Babaji' had had an encounter with Christ in the Himalaya (IF I'm 'remembering' this correctly-- it's been a while since I've looked at the book or the literature, so I'm not fact-checked here, okay).
..... e.g. Edgar Cayce (A.R.E.) was doing occult work, but VERY devoted to his Christian beliefs too and to the Bible which he read daily. It was the Edgar Cayce people in my own life (in college) that had brought me back to a Love for Jesus Christ after a very bad religious encounter with a priest as a teen. (I know that there are denominations that preach heavily against the Cayce-people, etc?... But that just because the pastor CARES soooo deeply for his flock. The preacher is VERY well-meaning, and I deeply respect him.... because his heart IS in the right place. I have NO doubt about that. I may not agree with everything he says 'in the way' he's saying it, but I DO know his heart is full of caring for people and wants to 'protect'. I have been away from these for 30 years, so I don't know what they're up to these days, too.)


At some point in life, as we 'individuate' from the things our parents/church taught, as we 'test' the waters of our OWN life to be lived, as we form our 'own' opinions as adults--, we begin to explore and to 'find' our way in this earth-world, and in the life of the spiritual.

As far as 'why' the church doesn't want people involved in things like tarot astrology or Ojai boards, etc--- It is that experienced-pastors have encountered individuals whose lives got derailed, who got 'sick' mentally emotionally spiritually, and suffered in anguish and agony in life stemming from having entertained these kinds of occult-knowledge tools. It's NOT for everyone. There are 'dangers' for some individuals when some of these get sucked into a realm (by 'accidental' timing through no fault of their own, or by level of maturity) that they weren't prepared to handle.

These pastors-leaders have witnessed DISASTER enter into people's lives, because they opened a door into the world of spirits that they were not prepared to encounter. (I'm not saying this is true for everyone or for every time or whatever-tool, ... but it was disastrous enough for some that exclusion is advised by these pastors, for everyone, 'to be safe'.)

There are unclean-spirits that come to prey on unsuspecting young innocents with questioning and curious souls. It's really important 'how' and 'with whom' you would connect-into for deeper information or studies. There are some that are safer shallower waters, and others that have sharks lurking there too. Follow what your trusted spiritual priests, teachers, etc, are saying... Gain some Discernments, first. They can act as life-guards near these portals... Not all beaches are friendly nor safe in which to swim. Water looks the same quality of wet, but needs to be safety-tested for the kinds of things you'd find invisibly hidden within it. *smile*.

There are some people who know how to do these things.... and others who innocently get involved, hang their 'professional' shingles outside the porches of spiritual businesses, who have not had adequate training nor 'experience' in these realms. They don't know the side-powers they blend open themselves to and with. (Like Trojan viruses, spirits can attach themselves, that are not healthy--- even though appearing harmless.)


I'd say to always try to stay balanced and monitor yourself. We can't always know which is safe or not? But I would stick to things closer-aligned to the Christ-Spirit you were baptized into... That was a kind of home-base that got established in you, which can act as a foundation...(if you are drawn to remain Christian, or with GOD-Spirit).

And it's (my personal opinion, from what limited narrow things I've seen) that there are (in some weird-strange ways), some vedics and people outside-the-traditional box of faiths who also tap the Collective Christ-Spirit. (There are MANY who would disagree with me here... but again, this is my own 'limited' viewpoint from 'what' I have been exposed to, so far.)

I say, choose... Start somewhere, and stay faithful, stay devoted to who is in your heart, and Believe that GOD will allow you to have the 'experiences' that you were slated In your life and journey to have.

It's "safe" to stay within the boundary of a Christ-oriented flock. (Like the groups I've mentioned.) Stay Devoted. Develop a life of Prayer, meditation....... Hug HIM, daily. Stay close. He wants you to know the Mysteries of His Spirit and the Universe, as much as YOU are drawn towards them too. He puts that drawing in your heart. Follow.

Just, do it 'safely' as I have said already. There are some terrible spirits you don't want to mess with. May God show you these things EARLY so that you won't be harmed beyond the point of recovery.

So! The answer to the occult-question, again, is that there can be very dangerous and unbalanced people as well as spirits lurking in these. That is 'why' they discourage and warn people NOT to go near.

(Personally?, I would nudge people to heed their cautions. The occult is NOT for everyone... There are dangers. Just, stay monitored-- by self, or family, friends, teachers. You know how some commercials have that fine-print where it reads that some experiences are 'unique' to certain individuals, not to be expected that 'everyone' will 'win that lottery' etc.? I think that for my own personal-soul, it was ordained that I got involved in meta-studies as a young teen --- I just pray that anyone that is drawn to this-post would 'stay safe' and be spiritually guarded against all harm, as God has guarded my own Soul through these waters .... May only persons and individuals ready, be reading this post.)


With topic of PROPHECY?

There are different meanings to the kinds of prophecy or prophetic spirits there are.

Most people are used to equating 'prophecy' with the working of gifts of Knowing, and revealing.... almost like a psychic can 'pick up' names of dead relatives, people close to you, etc. That's consciously reading your present-world, or things from your past.

There's a Prophetic Spiritual Gifting, where these individuals are 'tuned' in to what God has to say to the masses/collective, or to an individual in the collective. Sometimes someone with a prophetic-gift will 'tune in' to present-things or past-events where you establish that assurance that this message is sent 'to you' by things you've already known or are familiar with--- Then, as sometimes things chosen for your life are 'ready' to manifest for you, God can or will send you a prophet to validate or to help birth that potential, by utilizing "Words." These get spoken out loud, and there comes an "energizing" or catalyzing of a dormant or ready-to-breakout Vision over your life. The prophetic word Activates this, by the prophet's Pronouncement over and into the spirit of your soul and life.

This usually is done by this prophet at the unction and minding of God's Will for YOUR life. The Word activates your Future, or 'validates' to you something that God has mostly-usually ALREADY told you about, for your own life....

You would find some of these types of prophets in the Christian Pentecostal/spirit-filled type of church movements. I've "seen" this work before in other people's lives. Please also know that some of these churches are in grave error, and do these prophet words from their own manipulating of the masses or individuals. Scoundrels and false-prophets are very prevalent! (Be safe folks, stay safe.) (That second video?... TD Jakes, is one whom I trust. Oh, he's not a prophet, he's a pastor-teacher type, but really has a profound sense of Understanding the things of God, imho.)

STORY
There was a circumstance that was about to happen to me, around the time of usa 9-11 in my life. I had just moved cross-country (north to south), in order to startover in life. I got my first apartment in this locale. Went shopping for food at a certain market.

While I was there, there was a young man managing a new kind of ATM banking-service located in a lobby within that food-store in our region. I went several times a week to shop there, and he and I came to know each other better. His mom was a pastor of a local tiny storefront Pentecostal church in nearby area.

So, the young man went to a Christian Businessman's Breakfast on a Saturday morning, where a prophet came to teach/sermonize. This prophet spontaneously picked this young man out of the crowd, and had him stand... He told the youngman that there was a woman who came to talk to him where he worked, would come a few times a week...

The prophet said that the Holy Spirit wanted ME (that woman) to KNOW that there was a terrible wave of catastrophe about to hit my life---- That I should know that I would think that I was NOT going to survive this? But that I WOULD in fact survive. That I would be shredded and barely make it.... but that there was an assurance that I would get to the other-side of this experience alive.

That happened to me Spring of 2001. I had never had someone "speak" over my life like that before or since that time. THIS WORD was given 'through the acquaintance' and TO ME.... To help Strengthen me for what hit in those SUPER SUPER SUPER Dark Days that I faced, Lethargic- That 'word' helped save my life.

There were so many times when I thought I was going to be dead over those past almost 15-years now. I kept returning to that BIZARRE set of steps of 'coincidence' that happened for my life. GOD CARED SOOOO MUCH, that he 'arranged' to make sure I KNEW... something I 'needed' desperately to know.

It took myself, my becoming aquainted with this young man, who had a mom who was a pastor, who attended the luncheon, who had the prophet there, etc. All things, came together.

It took obedience on ALL PARTS, cooperation by EACH piece, for this 'message' to be delivered to me in the nick of time.

RIGHT WHEN I had seen that young man, my ex-husband was doing something in secret, along with a 'spiritual' frenemy within the church, that began an explosion of bad in my life.

Maybe God couldn't stop what the free-will of these 'evildoers' had started in my life? BUT GOD! God Loved Me soooo much, that He sent Words that would sink deep into my spiritman that would assist, as a Sign of His Careful Love over my life, as a Sign that I was 'supposed' to remain Alive, that my Life was to be Preserved 'for such a Time as This'...

GOD is a Loving God. He Cares about people. He is INVESTED in our Successes in life.

Bad people, and bad forces may be able to act against what God's Will is for us in our lives..... But, Lethargic---- STAY CLOSE to Him, and He will Guard You.

Tarot, astrology, etc.... are really cool ways of divining Clues about our life.... But get hooked and addicted to GOD, (to Jesus), MORE than these. These are cold objects...... HOOK into his Living Spirit First, then have caution and fun with the objects (stars, planets) He has made for our Pleasure and Guidances.

Seek HIM (His Face, to know His Heart)...

(music) Seek Ye First (lyrics) [2:47] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LMQfOp9w8k

Be Blessed
(Thanks for waiting through the proofread and edits, because of the storms here.)
e/609p

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Lethargic-
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posted July 25, 2015 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mirage:
I am also going through a deep learning experience (trying to find the truth); it's actually one of my transits right now ( Pluto R square Mercury ). So I'm guessing this conversation/post was meant to happen!

Perhaps why I asked my original question was because I thought what I'm doing with astrology is not healthy. So far I've only worked with (horary) astrology and had some people read tarot for me. It didn't bother me as much to discover things about myself through the natal chart but once I went to tarot and horary- to ask questions- I felt that it was, in someway, wrong for me to ask whomever/whatever I was asking. I felt like a hypocrite- going to church on Sundays and praying then going to astrology. As if my belief in both God and astrology could not exist within me.

It's true I have become a bit obsessive about astrology- it feeds my curiosity. You told me exactly what I needed to hear - so thank you This is most likely the message God wanted me to hear! I will be careful (I know that I don't have the guts to go to that board! I really don't want to invite bad spirits). My main issue is mental imbalance- I admit that I haven't been prioritizing God. My hope is that with the help of God I will be able to find a balance between the two. Thanks again and God Bless you.

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Randall
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posted July 26, 2015 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
Hi Letha... .... I don't usually 'whole quote' people, but I wanted to make sure all your thoughts were in my response. I'm glad you liked the videos, and you are asking some really important questions. Love it!!

I had come to respond to your response to me the same day, then, I hesitated... Felt inside to ask Spirit for help answering your question, instead. The next morning, an actual catholic priest actually 'answered' YOUR very question from the pulpit at the morning Mass I attended.... God surely Loves YOU, Letha! Cared enough to have the Priest answer the question. You're Important to Him.


I just-recently began to attend a catholic church again... Felt some kind of pull to attend church early in the morning, for prayer and dedicating my life and day and mornings towards the seeking of discreet directions for my life right now.

'Found' this church sorta 'accidently' (*smile*) the day after the New Moon in Cancer 23-degrees. The sanctuary was open, and I spent time in prayer. Saw they had daily masses, and decided 'for now' to make the commitment to my spiritual life and attend... It would be a sign to God that I was serious about things I'm asking.

I've been in super-transformation days right now. So, it's been important (when you're in times like that) to personally note and be aware when you are being 'pulled' towards something, like a Question, because it may not 'be' the object or thing or religion, but a need for you to explore "something that is there." Perhaps there's an important connection you would need to make through these searches in your life. It may not be 'the object' the cards, the church denomination, etc... but the Questions that your Soul is asking, right now.

The question about tarot, or finding answers in the clues surrounding us, is (to me) like the rolling looping and ever-evolving question 'what comes first~~ the chicken or the egg?'

My opinion is the zen-like 'Both' answer.... I think they go hand-in-hand, and we always have to keep in mind that we need to approach these things in the most-balanced ways we can find. When we find ourselves going too "overboard" with 'a single way' of moving towards something, that's when we also need to examine 'why'.... The answer may not be in stopping that direction, as much as we need to affirm or explore 'why' we do it, 'why' we ask that question.

If you have in any way given your life over to God, then rest that HE will nudge you (more than simple divining instruments), FROM a place INSIDE your spirit. Keep 'including' Him into your life. These kinds of outer-fascinations may tend to take you off-gravity a bit?... but Always come back to that Core Belief you have inside. Make HIM your priority, and all the other things in your life will fall into the order and steps they're supposed to happen in.


I'm 60 years old (end of May 2015), and have had a wide journey when it comes to religious interests and interests in what is called 'occult'....

I have been especially drawn towards the Mystical and the Supernatural parts of Christianity throughout my journey. I've read things (or been in study groups, or have had memberships with) the more-Christian types of elements in occult groups.
.... e.g. Yogananda is Hindu, but their sect lists Jesus in the line of their heritage of Gurus, as 'Babaji' had had an encounter with Christ in the Himalaya (IF I'm 'remembering' this correctly-- it's been a while since I've looked at the book or the literature, so I'm not fact-checked here, okay).
..... e.g. Edgar Cayce (A.R.E.) was doing occult work, but VERY devoted to his Christian beliefs too and to the Bible which he read daily. It was the Edgar Cayce people in my own life (in college) that had brought me back to a Love for Jesus Christ after a very bad religious encounter with a priest as a teen. (I know that there are denominations that preach heavily against the Cayce-people, etc?... But that just because the pastor CARES soooo deeply for his flock. The preacher is VERY well-meaning, and I deeply respect him.... because his heart IS in the right place. I have NO doubt about that. I may not agree with everything he says 'in the way' he's saying it, but I DO know his heart is full of caring for people and wants to 'protect'. I have been away from these for 30 years, so I don't know what they're up to these days, too.)


At some point in life, as we 'individuate' from the things our parents/church taught, as we 'test' the waters of our OWN life to be lived, as we form our 'own' opinions as adults--, we begin to explore and to 'find' our way in this earth-world, and in the life of the spiritual.

As far as 'why' the church doesn't want people involved in things like tarot astrology or Ojai boards, etc--- It is that experienced-pastors have encountered individuals whose lives got derailed, who got 'sick' mentally emotionally spiritually, and suffered in anguish and agony in life stemming from having entertained these kinds of occult-knowledge tools. It's NOT for everyone. There are 'dangers' for some individuals when some of these get sucked into a realm (by 'accidental' timing through no fault of their own, or by level of maturity) that they weren't prepared to handle.

These pastors-leaders have witnessed DISASTER enter into people's lives, because they opened a door into the world of spirits that they were not prepared to encounter. (I'm not saying this is true for everyone or for every time or whatever-tool, ... but it was disastrous enough for some that exclusion is advised by these pastors, for everyone, 'to be safe'.)

There are unclean-spirits that come to prey on unsuspecting young innocents with questioning and curious souls. It's really important 'how' and 'with whom' you would connect-into for deeper information or studies. There are some that are safer shallower waters, and others that have sharks lurking there too. Follow what your trusted spiritual priests, teachers, etc, are saying... Gain some Discernments, first. They can act as life-guards near these portals... Not all beaches are friendly nor safe in which to swim. Water looks the same quality of wet, but needs to be safety-tested for the kinds of things you'd find invisibly hidden within it. *smile*.

There are some people who know how to do these things.... and others who innocently get involved, hang their 'professional' shingles outside the porches of spiritual businesses, who have not had adequate training nor 'experience' in these realms. They don't know the side-powers they blend open themselves to and with. (Like Trojan viruses, spirits can attach themselves, that are not healthy--- even though appearing harmless.)


I'd say to always try to stay balanced and monitor yourself. We can't always know which is safe or not? But I would stick to things closer-aligned to the Christ-Spirit you were baptized into... That was a kind of home-base that got established in you, which can act as a foundation...(if you are drawn to remain Christian, or with GOD-Spirit).

And it's (my personal opinion, from what limited narrow things I've seen) that there are (in some weird-strange ways), some vedics and people outside-the-traditional box of faiths who also tap the Collective Christ-Spirit. (There are MANY who would disagree with me here... but again, this is my own 'limited' viewpoint from 'what' I have been exposed to, so far.)

I say, choose... Start somewhere, and stay faithful, stay devoted to who is in your heart, and Believe that GOD will allow you to have the 'experiences' that you were slated In your life and journey to have.

It's "safe" to stay within the boundary of a Christ-oriented flock. (Like the groups I've mentioned.) Stay Devoted. Develop a life of Prayer, meditation....... Hug HIM, daily. Stay close. He wants you to know the Mysteries of His Spirit and the Universe, as much as YOU are drawn towards them too. He puts that drawing in your heart. Follow.

Just, do it 'safely' as I have said already. There are some terrible spirits you don't want to mess with. May God show you these things EARLY so that you won't be harmed beyond the point of recovery.

So! The answer to the occult-question, again, is that there can be very dangerous and unbalanced people as well as spirits lurking in these. That is 'why' they discourage and warn people NOT to go near.

(Personally?, I would nudge people to heed their cautions. The occult is NOT for everyone... There are dangers. Just, stay monitored-- by self, or family, friends, teachers. You know how some commercials have that fine-print where it reads that some experiences are 'unique' to certain individuals, not to be expected that 'everyone' will 'win that lottery' etc.? I think that for my own personal-soul, it was ordained that I got involved in meta-studies as a young teen --- I just pray that anyone that is drawn to this-post would 'stay safe' and be spiritually guarded against all harm, as God has guarded my own Soul through these waters .... May only persons and individuals ready, be reading this post.)


With topic of PROPHECY?

There are different meanings to the kinds of prophecy or prophetic spirits there are.

Most people are used to equating 'prophecy' with the working of gifts of Knowing, and revealing.... almost like a psychic can 'pick up' names of dead relatives, people close to you, etc. That's consciously reading your present-world, or things from your past.

There's a Prophetic Spiritual Gifting, where these individuals are 'tuned' in to what God has to say to the masses/collective, or to an individual in the collective. Sometimes someone with a prophetic-gift will 'tune in' to present-things or past-events where you establish that assurance that this message is sent 'to you' by things you've already known or are familiar with--- Then, as sometimes things chosen for your life are 'ready' to manifest for you, God can or will send you a prophet to validate or to help birth that potential, by utilizing "Words." These get spoken out loud, and there comes an "energizing" or catalyzing of a dormant or ready-to-breakout Vision over your life. The prophetic word Activates this, by the prophet's Pronouncement over and into the spirit of your soul and life.

This usually is done by this prophet at the unction and minding of God's Will for YOUR life. The Word activates your Future, or 'validates' to you something that God has mostly-usually ALREADY told you about, for your own life....

You would find some of these types of prophets in the Christian Pentecostal/spirit-filled type of church movements. I've "seen" this work before in other people's lives. Please also know that some of these churches are in grave error, and do these prophet words from their own manipulating of the masses or individuals. Scoundrels and false-prophets are very prevalent! (Be safe folks, stay safe.) (That second video?... TD Jakes, is one whom I trust. Oh, he's not a prophet, he's a pastor-teacher type, but really has a profound sense of Understanding the things of God, imho.)

STORY
There was a circumstance that was about to happen to me, around the time of usa 9-11 in my life. I had just moved cross-country (north to south), in order to startover in life. I got my first apartment in this locale. Went shopping for food at a certain market.

While I was there, there was a young man managing a new kind of ATM banking-service located in a lobby within that food-store in our region. I went several times a week to shop there, and he and I came to know each other better. His mom was a pastor of a local tiny storefront Pentecostal church in nearby area.

So, the young man went to a Christian Businessman's Breakfast on a Saturday morning, where a prophet came to teach/sermonize. This prophet spontaneously picked this young man out of the crowd, and had him stand... He told the youngman that there was a woman who came to talk to him where he worked, would come a few times a week...

The prophet said that the Holy Spirit wanted ME (that woman) to KNOW that there was a terrible wave of catastrophe about to hit my life---- That I should know that I would think that I was NOT going to survive this? But that I WOULD in fact survive. That I would be shredded and barely make it.... but that there was an assurance that I would get to the other-side of this experience alive.

That happened to me Spring of 2001. I had never had someone "speak" over my life like that before or since that time. THIS WORD was given 'through the acquaintance' and TO ME.... To help Strengthen me for what hit in those SUPER SUPER SUPER Dark Days that I faced, Lethargic- That 'word' helped save my life.

There were so many times when I thought I was going to be dead over those past almost 15-years now. I kept returning to that BIZARRE set of steps of 'coincidence' that happened for my life. GOD CARED SOOOO MUCH, that he 'arranged' to make sure I KNEW... something I 'needed' desperately to know.

It took myself, my becoming aquainted with this young man, who had a mom who was a pastor, who attended the luncheon, who had the prophet there, etc. All things, came together.

It took obedience on ALL PARTS, cooperation by EACH piece, for this 'message' to be delivered to me in the nick of time.

RIGHT WHEN I had seen that young man, my ex-husband was doing something in secret, along with a 'spiritual' frenemy within the church, that began an explosion of bad in my life.

Maybe God couldn't stop what the free-will of these 'evildoers' had started in my life? BUT GOD! God Loved Me soooo much, that He sent Words that would sink deep into my spiritman that would assist, as a Sign of His Careful Love over my life, as a Sign that I was 'supposed' to remain Alive, that my Life was to be Preserved 'for such a Time as This'...

GOD is a Loving God. He Cares about people. He is INVESTED in our Successes in life.

Bad people, and bad forces may be able to act against what God's Will is for us in our lives..... But, Lethargic---- STAY CLOSE to Him, and He will Guard You.

Tarot, astrology, etc.... are really cool ways of divining Clues about our life.... But get hooked and addicted to GOD, (to Jesus), MORE than these. These are cold objects...... HOOK into his Living Spirit First, then have caution and fun with the objects (stars, planets) He has made for our Pleasure and Guidances.

Seek HIM (His Face, to know His Heart)...

(music) Seek Ye First (lyrics) [2:47] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LMQfOp9w8k

Be Blessed
(Thanks for waiting through the proofread and edits, because of the storms here.)
e/609p


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mirage29
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posted July 26, 2015 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lethargic-:
Mirage:
I am also going through a deep learning experience (trying to find the truth); it's actually one of my transits right now ( Pluto R square Mercury ). So I'm guessing this conversation/post was meant to happen!

It was a good conversation for me too that had me looking at parts of my life that I had forgotten. I'm so glad you asked. It was for the both of us!

I read about the transit you're having, 'plumbing the Depths of the universe.' -- With my transit, I'm learning about the exchange of deep intense Deep feelings, especially love and the arts. (Pluto trine Venus)

quote:
Perhaps why I asked my original question was because I thought what I'm doing with astrology is not healthy. So far I've only worked with (horary) astrology and had some people read tarot for me. It didn't bother me as much to discover things about myself through the natal chart, but once I went to tarot and horary- to ask questions- I felt that it was, in someway, wrong for me to ask whomever/whatever I was asking.

awww, don't be too hard on yourself. It's normal to feel 'curious' about others. Your conscience is working. Pay attention to that-- stay sensitive to it, and your conscience will be your guide. Don't worry about it. (It's what you DO with the knowledge you get that you'll be accountable for.)

ADD 7/27 842p
( Good to get anchored and grounded in the study of plain-and-simple natal astrology first (western). Then begin to understand about the transits around the chart. This will be the most-helpful think you can do, to get to know yourself and your own chart first, then the people closest to you. God will use that to your benefit. )

Astrology is soooo fascinating. And I think the obsession-phase is something normal! There's an exhilaration when all the little-things you learn begin to 'coordinate' themselves and spell-out the picture. Then the pictures get a 'feel' about them, then splash! The Cosmos opens up!

I remember belonging to that Edgar Cayce study group (mentioned) while in college. These were older ladies,.. At one point they got the 'astrology-bug' (healthy obsession). I held out on joining their interest because I had a heavy schedule at school.

That was the early 1970s--- The study group travelled and attended workshops together, given by now well-known people in the field. Heck, I think about how I might have even been able to meet Linda Goodman had I gone on some adventures with them! *sigh* j/k

quote:
I felt like a hypocrite- going to church on Sundays and praying, then going to astrology. As if my belief in both God and astrology could not exist within me.

ugh, I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Sometimes I think that's part of being an astrologer, unfortunately. You have to settle that dilemma inside you. Process it. Personally, there is a difference between God and the Love of God, and the institutional church. Ultimately, as I've said, the church is just trying to 'protect' people.... Not that many people are Astrologers. So, we are in the few.

There is nothing wrong with loving and believing and having faith in God, and having a special love for astrology. Astrology itself is merely a tool. It's the person 'using' the tool that matters. Like a knife is an object-- in a surgeon's hands can save lives.

Some unbalanced and unscrupulous persons use astrology to manipulate people. There are scammers in the field ~so, *what else is new*?! Or some don't care about the language they use and say untrue terrible-things to clients that can 'hurt' affect/infect the client's mind.

Studying astrology has enhanced my own personal spiritual life. It deepened my sense of faith, increased my Love and Worship of God.

God gave us intelligent minds-- I can imagine Him enjoying watching us trying to figure His systems out. I think He takes pleasure in our musing, like the joy of a parent watching a child play with a toy.

So many times, as I look mindfully at the stars in that expanse of sky, my Heart opens and my Soul feels such stirrings. Such awe!

And with that mysterious Moon-- did you ever wonder or think about how Jesus-Himself looked up at that very SAME EXACT bright orb? Could it have inspired Him while He prayed to His FatherGod? Can you just Imagine that?

With tarot type things? ... If you would be worried in any way about content of some of the cards, Doreen Virtue (Angel Souls) has levels of non-scary tarot Angel-Cards that basically carry supportive messages right there on the card itself.

Be Balanced... and please stop Worrying.
Believe in yourself, and you'll be fine. {{hugs }}

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Lethargic-
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posted August 02, 2015 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Mirage,
Sorry for the late reply .
Just wanted to say that you are very right about the natal chart and transits (how it enhances our way of being)- it's literally like a cheat sheet to knowing oneself and others.

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mirage29
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posted August 03, 2015 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Letha-
I thought of you the other day when I listened to this!

Want to share it... No worries or hurries regarding answers here, okay?! Life happens... Some of us here fall in and out of rhythms in life, but we come back.

Keep in touch every once in a while, to tell us how your doing... {{ }}

Good advice, from her...

(topic) What is astrology for? (Veerle Debruyne, astrologer in Belgium) [11:40] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG9OpwqC3w8

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Lethargic-
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posted August 03, 2015 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, you found a great video Mirage! She was spot-on when speaking of the obsession with reading horoscopes (which I had) and gave very good advice: to live in the present, get a reading once or twice a year etc. I know in the beginning I read my horoscope everyday as if to anticipate any events (really controlling of me) and this ended up affecting my mental health to the point that I neglected homework, family, eating and such. Now I understand why priests say it's something we should stah away from - because it triggers our obsessive tendencies.

In regards to the concept of predestination, I agree with her yet again. Even though we make our own choices (freewill), God already has a plan for us. I guess i'll have to watch her video on that topic.

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mirage29
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posted August 04, 2015 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lethargic-:
... In regards to the concept of predestination, I agree with her yet again. Even though we make our own choices (freewill), God already has a plan for us...

Now if we could only get clear on what 'that' would be, right?? LOL

Stay close to His Heart and His Angels will ever be at your side-- to Light and Guard, to Rule and Guide, Amen! (Guardian Angel prayer?)

Sometimes, when I hear Love Songs, I think about my relationship with God. Imagine the two of you (your soul & God) exchanging intimacies and making reconciliations to each other like this... In the spirit, you'll take your spiritual life to a whole other level.

(music) Never Gonna Let You Go (Sergio Mendez, lyrics) [4:13] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwKxfHK92IM

(music) He Gives Me Joy! (Reba Rambo Gardner) [3:28] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xhys6c751U

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posted August 04, 2015 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
[B] Now if we could only get clear on what 'that' would be, right?? LOL

I think that's where horary astrology and such would come in ☺️.

Also this might be strange but is your name Marge? I also got a date: 7/19. I might be wrong though so please don't give it much thought.

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mirage29
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posted August 07, 2015 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not Marge, but Mara socially. And 7/19 doesn't ring any bells yet as far as birthdays or anniversaries are concerned.

However, the Sun shines on some important degrees in my natal chart during that time.

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posted August 08, 2015 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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posted August 09, 2015 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aw- well that's okay. Are you going to church today?

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posted August 10, 2015 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you went, hope it was a good sermon.

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mirage29
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posted August 21, 2015 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's always a good sermon! -- if not by the spoken word, then in the observations of things surrounding me as I walk through the Moments of the day. God speaks to me Everywhere and in everything. He's the Light of Consciousness itself.

But meanwhile back at the actual-physical church I've been attending (LOL), the priests there are top-notch.

There's been the one who has been 'on loan' to us from southern India! He's going to be leaving sometime in September (next month). I'm actually going to miss him soooo much. He really has a sense of holiness about him, and I love his sermons. Namaste Father, I told him at end of Mass one Sunday~~ probably shocked him. I think that people who are meandering and wandering back into the catholic church right now have treasures to give 'that' part of the Body of Christ.... Thing is though, I think that 'the church-catholique' is afraid it would lose too much of it's identity by doing that... which, if they were to let go of that fear, I don't really think would happen. The church is very strong-- strong bones, good rituals. She just needs a bigger wardrobe, and some dancing-shoes!

Although!!! There was a priest from Tanzania that preached last Sunday. HE said their church services last at least three hours-- with dancing and singing for the first hour. (Okay. Okay? Now THAT'S called havin' church!!.... LOL) He had been trained in Minnesota-- I don't think you'd find too many dancers there?, but I'd be willing to be surprised! {{Heart}}

'WE' are the Body, and to exclude members just because (humorously) they clap on the wrong beat (as I was chided for in a hardcore Baptist church meeting one night) or want to step~sway back and forth to a good song that begs it ~~ is just plain ugly! LOL ..... aw heck, I'm an eclectic! Love me anyways?!!! (Besides, I don't think I was the only one? I would have clapped on that downbeat and not the second had the musical direction been a bit clearer?? LOL ... oh just bein' a tad feisty here! *grin*)

There was a sermon on August 12 Wednesday morning that blew me away-- I wasn't expecting the solution he gave to this scenario. Definitely opposite from other more-legalistic and self-righteous denominations I've attended or listened to by television or radio...

Scripture was Matthew 18 (this is NIV version)
QUOTE
Dealing With Sin in the Church--
15 “If your brother or sister ['fellow disciple'] sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.
16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[deut 19:15]
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18&version=NIV

Now, in some church social circles, this gives some individuals the feeling that they 'have permission' to exclude (excommunicate), socially ostracize, the people they don't understand nor like.

...And that's pretty harsh for some-- especially when dealing with gossipers who unbeknownst to the target-individual has a whole-image falsely and loosely-based on circumstantial evidence, and things that others may have said that are tainted with a degree of fear (conscious or unconscious), prejudice, or a type of jealousy (unconscious or conscious)...

I mean, I could just (in my imagination) hear the 'Amen-corner' and the sourpuss faces gettin' all indignant and everything...

But this Beautiful-Souled Priest says... Well, Let's look at what JESUS did to learn how we should behave towards these.
He went to the house and had dinner with the tax-collectors (whom everyone hated, with good-cause sometimes because many in those days were quite greedy and unfair).
He talked to the Samaritan Woman-at-the-Well (parable). (Samaritans were very much looked down upon, and Jesus the Rabbi directly spoke to a 'woman' nonetheless).

The priest basically said that Jesus would say to LOVE these even MORE!! Give the tax-collectors and adulterous-women even MORE love. Focus the attention and love more on these on the periphery of society than all the rest. Jesus was Inclusive, and he did not cast anyone away...

Oh YES~~ My countenance brightened at those words the priest gave. What a relief?!! It was like a tight band got released. That's Liberty.

Today at Mass, one of the prayers was that we don't let the LAW (Letter of the Law) interfere with the People and their needs and the quality of life. (~Amen!)

Letter of the dogmatic legalistic Law kills (sometimes literally); the Spirit-reason, which is Love, gives life.

That's like Mother Teresa ... Some of the church was after her opinion about divorces, and sin, and abortions, etc. She refused to address the 'sin-issue' and instead concentrated on Jesus' message of Love and being of kind Service to one-another.

Today, that same India-Priest gave a sermon on Matthew 22 (NIV) --
The Greatest Commandment
QUOTE
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” http://www.bible.com/bible/111/mat.22.niv

He pointed out the giant cross (crucifix) hanging behind the altar in the sanctuary, and said that the cross-beams described the two commandments.

The Vertical was the first-- to Love God with all-you-are. The Horizontal beam represented Loving Others. He suggested that Jesus' hands are extended there-- to the right and to the left of Him--, symbolizing our Neighbors (persons) to the right and left of us, besides us.

We are to LOVE God with our FULL and WHOLE Mind's Consciousness first....

Sometimes marriage and family can day-to-day distract. (I think, part of the message here was the church's emphasis this month and next on supporting priestly-vocations.-- but I liked it! ...)

I could relate to my own past-experience in marriage-- Being all busy racing to keep everything detail going, putting all priorities on 'him' (kids, or business) first, and wind up running ragged, and not aware that you have lost connection to your Center. Neglecting the other-'Him' ~~

You need to have boundaries-of-sorts with that, balancing things. It's good when you have a spouse/partner who will respect (and protect) your need for time and Divine Connection that is One with God, then/and, one with the other. When a couple is Centered in God-inside, then both will want to take better responsibility and care for the other, I think.

I love Mary Magdalene {{ }} -- one of my favorite saints. I think this is a good song that helps to express my Saturn-rxScorpio opp Venus aspect (with Jupiter-Uranus Cancer sextile Moon~~ Venus in 5th quintiles the Uranus in 8th).

(music) I Don't Know How To Love Him (JesusChristSuperStar 2000 TV version, Renee Castle) [4:04] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1ev49weFWQ

________________
Found this Q & A article that I thought you might enjoy...
Dr. Loretta J. Standley, "How Can I Be A Christian and Practice Astrology?" http://www.drstandley.com/astrologycharts_astrochartingfaqs.shtml

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Lethargic-
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posted August 21, 2015 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lethargic-     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Mirage!!!,
Reading your post I got all excited, I relate to so many of the things you said! You see the same flaws I have seen in the Catholic church (and all its goodness).

I completely understand when you say you feel kind of restricted by the church because of the rules and how you have to behave. When I do the first or second reading in my church on Sundays (we sit in the very front if we have to present), i'm told not to clap when the chorus sings because I can't treat mass like I'm in a concert! BUT praising God and giving him thanks should be that way! Praise him in your own way. And I was only clapping not even dancing. That's partly why I believe so many people convert or look at the church with disdain- we have so many rules and restrictions that it's hard for people to find a connection with God. Dancing and clapping, encourages people to go to church and brings us closer to him imo. When I'm in the audience/crowd, I sing as loud as I can and clap!

Other point- to the priest who gave that sermon, kudos to him!! I honestly would have felt as relieved as you are feeling because exclusion also pains me. I have this problem in my own family; my mother's long time boyfriend is a Catholic, always likes to help others and is quick to forgive but there is always a tinge of racism and ignorance sticks out, especially towards those who are Muslim. One time he said 'those f**king Muslims', mind you, he doesn't have any Muslim acquaintances, he just blows them off because they have a different religion (b/c of Muhammad but I presume also because of their skin color since he's always talking about Black people as well).Then there's the topic of homosexuality- he also believes that's a sin. One time I asked him where in the bible he found that and apparently he did find a text (I believe it was in the old testament). Obviously, I was angered by this. I think of my self as an open minded individual and having taken classes concerning these topics, I have realized how ignorance in my culture/religion and other's has put these people under oppression. Where is the Christian in that? Aren't we supposed to love one another equally, since we are all descendants of God? Another day, on our way to a restaurant, I confronted him about this, using a similar argument and the idea that we pick and choose parts of the text in the bible to use as weapons against others, disregarding aspects of our religion that God/Jesus himself has communicated to us. He then brings up that we have to convert and teach others (which is in the scripture you cited). But I said again, we cannot be ignorant in our approach. And even if we consider aspects of their culture to be wrong, we cannot condemn them. He says that the wrong that he sees is the truth but then I bring up, Who are we to judge others? The argument ended around there- and at the table I prayed that they would more accepting of others (my mother is included since she's easily influenced and brings up the same ignorance). He said I was being aggressive but then after praying at the table he agreed to be more accepting and less prejudiced.

Anyways all this makes me think of how conflicting the bible could be at times, a very powerful tool and resource but sometimes one that is used to condemn others, something God did not ordain. Most priests avoid such topics like homosexuality because of how heavily debated it is in the Catholic church- no matter what is agreed upon, I am on the side of love and acceptance (like Jesus). And looking at the second scripture you cited where the person asks which is the greatest commandment of them all- look at what the second commandment says- love thy neighbor not teach them, point out their flaws or condemn them- FIRST to LOVE them! I think i'm going to text him this scripture haha!


Edit: Im going to o include 29: Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

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mirage29
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posted August 22, 2015 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lethargic-:
When I do the first or second reading in my church on Sundays (we sit in the very front if we have to present), I'm told not to clap when the chorus sings because I can't treat Mass like I'm in a concert!

BUT praising God and giving him thanks should be that way! Praise him in your own way. And I was only clapping not even dancing.

That's partly why I believe so many people convert or look at the church with disdain- we have so many rules and restrictions that it's hard for people to find a connection with God.

Dancing and clapping, encourages people to go to church and brings us closer to him imo. When I'm in the audience/crowd, I sing as loud as I can and clap!

Other point- to the priest who gave that sermon, kudos to him!!....


Hi Letha!! ... I'm so glad you liked that post, and that you were actually able to have positive encounter with your mom's bf.

He said you were being aggressive?... That could be the transiting PLuto square your Mercury tending to put more PLow behind your speech/words (mercury)? Pluto is very press-push-powerful and very very deep. I guess that with Pluto's intensifying, you won't have to press too hard in order to get your point across to him, anymore. You've got those planets helping you to do that! Hurray.

You know, you are sooo privileged to be able to Serve the Word to your congregation like that (when you do the readings). He is 'just as Present' at the reading of the Word, as He is during Communion. (Hence, the lighting of both sets of candles.)

The other place He's Present is in our Praise.. Praise has Power.

Oh I think you and I could just rock that front pew together, gurl! (And you what? I have a sneaking suspicion that our PaPa Francis might approve?)

They didn't call the 1970s musical "Jesus Christ Super-Star" for nothing! *grin* He is WORTHY~~

Let's doooo it!

When the Spirit of the Lord comes upon my Heart I will dance like David danced!

2 Samuel 6:14 David danced before the Lord with all his might http://biblehub.com/2_samuel/6-14.htm

(music) When The Spirit Of The Lord (Fred Hammond, lyrics) [4:17] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v4DBZW6RPM

(music) We Lift Our Hands in the Sanctuary (Kurt Carr, lyrics) [6:05] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv68ruS6DVE

(music) Joyful Joyful (Lauryn Hill, SisterAct2, danced by Weapons of Hope) [4:23] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPt0vja9Bk

____________
*Heart* Letha, you may also enjoy browsing these two threads in Divine Diversity LL Forum.

LL-DD: Take Jesus Down From The Cross
by Aphrodite, March 30, 2015 http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000759.html

LL-DD: A Solemn Prayer.
by RunAroundScreaming, November 12, 2013 http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000686.html

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