posted August 09, 2004 06:55 AM         

...

I'm all upsetted now. It's because of that stupid argument I got into with pidua.

You know, just because I don't let my emotions dictate my actions, and just because I try to temper them with logic, doesn't mean I don't have any. And they're hurted.

...

I don't know what to do. I love this site; or, rather, I love the idea of this site. I love what it says on the front cover. Reminds me of a Linda Goodman book. But it goes so far off-track.

It's a hard world for a spiritual seeker, for a thinker, for an idealist. For someone who thinks alcohol is bad, and sex is sacred. I number among the disaffected and misunderstood. I thought, you know, that this would be like a little haven, a little island, in the sea of mediocrity and self-delusion that is normality.

OK, so it's not. And if the majority of people who post here don't want it to be, then any attempt to make it so is useless. It's not even worth complaining about.

...

Why, oh why, Randall, do you not take a more active role in what this website is, and what it is used for?

Or maybe I've got you all wrong, Randall. Maybe you like it the way it is.

I honestly don't know.

...

Is there no place for me in this world?

...

Why am I such a sucker? Why do I get drawn into arguments so easily?

...

I don't tell other people how to live thier life. Not until someone shoves their ignorant thoughts in where I thought they didn't belong.

...

You think I care if you have a drink every now and then? I don't. But I don't want to talk about it either. To me, agreeing to disagree means we both stfu on the subject and not bring it up again.

...

After a lifetime of earnest searching for the truth, how am I supposed to feel when someone calls me a 'fraud'?

Do YOU think I'm a fraud? I want to know. <draws a line down the middle of the post> Really, I want to know. I want all the people who think I'm OK on this side of the post, and I want all the people who think I'm a 'fraud' on the other side. I want to count heads. No sense in me being here if I'm just babbling to a bunch of people who think I'm full of it.

...

I like some of you. I like talking with you. I don't want to lose that, which I will if I leave Lindaland. I don't have your e-mail addresses, and you don't do IRC.

...

What to do, what to do?

...

posted August 09, 2004 07:35 AM         

And if you don't want the drama anymore, and want to still have your sanctuary, perhaps calling people out to stand on sides of a fence and see how many are on your side or against you, isn't nessecarily the best idea.... it's a bit oppposite of everything else you just said...

I'll be clear so nobody misunderstands me,
to say that you don't force your opinions on anyone else, then call others' thoughts ''ignorant'' is a bit rude. Why are your thoughts sacred? Why can't people be who they are here? Isn't that what Linda's message always was? If this has become a place that you don't like, it's not completely fair to say it should be back to the way it was, because as Gia said (and I'm paraphrasing), what's past is past, and we can't bring it back. Quoting Trillian now, nothing is static...

Where does it say anything on this site about not being able to agree or disagree or tell people what you think, or be willing to accept it when others tell you what they think? I think this whole thing has gone too far, and it's become about attacking each other instead of respecting each other's differences.

I'm sorry to but in when I had nothing to do with it to begin with, but you were asking what to do. Paras, I barely know anything about you besides what I've read in these past few angry posts, and I'm still willing to write back and share my opinion with you. That, to me, is what this site is about. People talking about all things spiritual, astrological, environmental, political, religious, moralistic, etc... all different people sharing all different views.

So I'm not standing on any side of any fence, I just wanted to say all that.

posted August 09, 2004 09:43 AM         

quote:

---

Paras, I barely know anything about you besides what I've read in these past few angry posts...

---

Isn't that a shame? Here, I dug up some posts so you can see the other sides of me:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000422.html http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003062.html http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003086.html http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003087.html http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003061.html http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003095.html http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003195-3.html http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003120-2.html

If you can't get a feel for who I am from those posts, then it is never going to come across in text!

This is an emotional thread. I care about the world I live in, I care about this website. Sometimes I feel discouraged and depressed. This is one of those times. I hate the idea of you drawing your impressions of me from just that.

But I vaguely remember a short interaction with you in another string somewhere. I don't remember much, except that I got a positive impression from you. I'll keep an eye out for more of your posts.

posted August 09, 2004 09:51 AM         

Mormonism? <shivers> God forbid!

Don't they believe that Jesus lives on some planet somehwere with 15 wives, or something like that? I think they're out in the Twilight Zone.

posted August 09, 2004 09:53 AM         

Do not use others as a measurement of yourself.

It's a wicked game to look for sanction in others.

posted August 09, 2004 10:14 AM         

I don't think I was the only person that misunderstood what you were trying to get across, and I am glad that you explained what you meant.

And I don't totally think you are negative, I think a lot of people have been getting emotional about what's been going on, and it has been hard to discern negativity from just ''one of those times.''

I hope that this all works itself out, because I would hate it too, if people's impressions at this time turn into their impressions full time.

posted August 09, 2004 11:50 AM         

Sorry, I know you asked me not to post a reply in here, but I couldn't help it. I had to straighten you out in terms of how *I* percieve you.

Do freinds have to ALWAYS agree with every single thing the other says/thinks/feels/belives? What the heck would they talk about then, if everything was 100% mutual all the time? Why bother having a conversation, if all you're going to do is smile and nod at every word? BOREING!

posted August 09, 2004 12:40 PM         

Your response was entirely emotional. That doesn't mean you didn't make rational points you did, good ones too! Don't be too harsh on yourself Paras. After all you didn't start it and I understood your intention of guiding another. Truth is you can't help people in that way. It's a waste of time. People help themselves, they do so by repeating the same old thing in one giuse or another, re-creating it an indefinite number of times, until a light goes on. I can't help wondering in what different guise this will pop up next time.

We dig our own holes and most of us don't need help. We think for ourselves, act for ourselves and conduct ourselves. If people don't like it they say so. Ultimately it makes no difference to our lives unless we want it to. No need to be all upsetted, understand it as a recognition and move on.

Gia

posted August 09, 2004 12:47 PM         

I know you will not read what I wrote in the other thread, but I will repeat myself. For the stability of the board I will not post to you again. I will not respond in any way to what you have written, even if you refer to me in any manner.

I do love this place and I don't want "our" drama to threaten it. It is obvious you and I do not communicate effectively. The filters in my head are different that those in your head and somewhere down the line the message is crossed.

Randall does monitor the boards and keeps us inline when we are veering towards forbidden territory and he also allows us to speak our mind.

My manner of speaking is sometimes extremely direct, especially my written word. There are times when I do don't see how clinical and pointed my paragraphs can become and I do cut things to the quick. It is my nature - but in all I have never tried to harm someone or "break" them. For the most part I seek to understand and learn just like the next person.

posted August 09, 2004 01:51 PM         

Well, first of all, at the risk of coming off to some, as though I always agree with everything paras posts........once again - this time - I do. Well maybe not agree, since there werent that many things to agree with - but I understand and feel it. No, I don't agree with him 100% of the time - and I really don't think that is what he is looking for people to do. I don't look to him as some kind of guru. I am repeatedly amazed at how much his words usually resonate with my own beliefs. Though, I am not going to get into that. For some reason I wanted to state this and get it out of the way.

paras, to answer your questions - from my own personal POV - do I think you are a fraud? No, far from it. And I look forward to reading your "babble", everytime I log on to LL. To me, your high intelligence, sensitivity and Light, shine brilliantly through your words.

No one is perfect. We all stumble from time to time. I can see you for who you are. Although I don't know "you" well - I feel I can sense "you" pretty well, if you know what I mean. To me you are another beautiful soul just trying to find his way. I feel lucky to have met you on my journey and hope you decide not to leave. I know how hard it is to want to help others change and how frustrating it can be when they don't seem to understand you. You know that the only one that can truely change someone is themself. Though it is hard not to want to try and open people's eyes to what you percieve as truth.

You have a friend in me, here in LL. And I'm certain that there are others who feel the same way.

If you ever want or need to talk or vent, here is my email, **** I mean it.
(I'll leave this up for a little while)

Wishing you a lovely rest of the day. I'm off to try and take a nap before I have to work later.

Peace to you,

26

posted August 09, 2004 01:55 PM         

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding what you're getting at. I mean you were a little weird about my pictures putting things in quotations and paranthesis like:

**You have two photos of you (or so you say) and someone called 'Mayfair' **

You've done that a couple times and it weirds me out. What does that mean "Or so you say" ?

Beyond that I am still open-minded. I like a diversity of people on any message board. It keeps things interesting. I would be very bored if everyone thought the same as I do What would I learn then??

posted August 09, 2004 02:53 PM         

I noticed you said on another thread: Nothing..because actions are the true reflection of the soul...what do your actions reflect?

Well, here's a joke that I heard a long time ago that seems to fit but you might know it already:

The masochist said, "Hurt me."

The sadist said, "No."

ENJOY!

Sh!

posted August 09, 2004 03:51 PM         

You have a magnificent gift when you put pen to paper to enliven souls. I can't help but wonder for what purpose you scatter seeds on rocky ground, especially when you have all the tools you need to produce an amazing harvest.

Intensity is silence. It's image is not.

You remind me of the Jorie Graham poem which goes:

A wind moving around all sides,
A wind shaking points of view out
Like the last bits of rain.

I'll look foward to some great writing.

Gia

posted August 09, 2004 07:21 PM         

quote:

---

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding what you're getting at. I mean you were a little weird about my pictures putting things in quotations and parentheses like:

**You have two photos of you (or so you say) and someone called 'Mayfair' **

You've done that a couple times and it weirds me out. What does that mean "Or so you say"?

---

Sorry for confusing you, BloodRed. That was one of my twisted attempts at a mild joke. What I meant by "or so you say" was, "I can't tell which of these two people is the same person from the other pictures -- is she really in there?" You's a-takin' me too seeeriously, okay?

But that's okay, everyone is. Even me, I suppose.

To everyone and anyone:

I know I come off here as this horribly rigid, puritanical, prudish, judgemental a**hole. (I know this because I have been told it so many times.) It really, really SUCKS. Because I'm not any of those things. Maybe a little judgemental, but I usually keep it to myself. I don't go around smacking people in the face with my opinion of every little thing -- until they actively want to engage me on the issue, that is. I am tenacious. I don't like to back down, and I don't walk away from things easily. I need to work on that.

I'm sorry, but it *is* my opinion that certain topics don't belong here. It OFFENDS my respect for Linda Goodman. She was always clean, and taught clean living. I think she would not like it if she knew that statements like "bring on the drunken orgy!" were being made at a place dedicated to her. Do YOU think she would like it?

There are umpteen discussion boards out there. Some have been set up specifically for people who like drunken orgies. If someone's going to be that base and gross, I think they should take it elsewhere.

Look, it's not like, if you talk about sex or alcohol, I get all upset about it. That's not true at all. Those are parts of life and I want to talk about them too. I'm just saying that those things aren't the point of this place (or of Life), and there are limits to everything (except Love).

This whole thing about "my beliefs" has been blown way out of proportion. I don't care what people do, and I don't automatically dislike someone for believing differently than me. I don't expect everyone to believe or act the same.

No, wait.

I DON'T AUTOMATICALLY DISLIKE PEOPLE FOR BELIEVING DIFFERENTLY THAN I DO.

I DON'T EXPECT EVERYONE TO BELIEVE OR ACT THE SAME.

Read it again. And again. And as many times as it takes to get it burned into your brain, because I'm bloody well sick and tired of people suggesting that the opposite is true.

Now, can we let the stupid issue of "my beliefs" drop? I'm sick of hearing about it, and I'm anxious to move on.

Even at my angriest, my most frustrated, my worst, I have tried to provide rational reasons for what I was saying, and have strenuously avoided name-calling and blatant insult. Some of my detractors have not been so courteous.

I believe I have a right to say that I think something is wrong. I'm not mean about it.

It is very easy for me to fall into a "no one likes me" mentality. At times it seems that I have made some friends here, but after being insulted over and over and over again by some people on top of arguing (however courteously) with a bunch of other people, I start to wonder. It's one of my weaknesses, one of my issues. That's what this string was originally about. I'm not seeking validation (, Trillian), I'm checking for fit. Do I belong here? That is what I began to doubt. The last thing I want to be, is a thorn in everyone's side. If most of you think I'm a 'fraud', or just plain don't like me, I'll leave, and leave you alone. After arguing so much, is it so strange that I should wonder how you feel about me?

I'll tell you how I feel about you. Gia, Trillian, PixelPixie, Ghanima, 26taurus, Aphrodite, Harpyr, Ra, I like you and think you're intelligent people. You are what I like about Lindaland. And 26, don't worry about people thinking you're a 'follower' or blindly agree with everything I say. I wouldn't like you so much if you weren't your own person, and if anyone else thinks otherwise, f**k 'em. Randall, you don't post much, so I don't know you very well, but I admire the hell out of your convictions about freedom of speech. You also seem to be as much of a LInda Goodman fan as I am, which is very cool. Dafreman, I think you are highly intelligent and spiritually aware. Since the "Atteniton" thread, my opinion of you has been turned into a big question mark; I can't figure out what your motive was for that one, or whether or not you have a 'clique' mentality. Jwhop aggravates the hell out of me and I think he's just too conventional and set in his ways. He thinks I'm a looney and that hurts. Lioneye -- thank you for saying something. I don't know you very well either, except for the unfortunate threads in GU, so I always just kind of thought of you as the other half of Jwhop. I always thought that you thought I was a looney too, and I'm touched by what you said. You've separated yourself in my mind, and now I will pay more attention to the things you say and form a real opinion. I have nothing against you either. Pidaua has been very mean to me, and I don't know why, but she thinks I'm somehow phony, so I doubt I could dredge up a positive feeling for her at this moment even if I had a good reason. I don't know anyone else here well enough to *have* an opinion of them. But I'm open-minded. I'm slow to dislike people. True to my Sun, I weigh things carefully before professing to have an opinion.

Now, I'm sure someone is going to respond with "I don't care what your opinion of me is." Great. Wonderful. Lovely. Yes, I know that no one needs 'validation' from me. I'm not validating anything. I'm not writing this for you, I'm writing it for me. I want to show you all that I am not ashamed of anything I think or feel, and that I am not so jaded and cynical that I can't express my positive feelings. And to anyone who might be tempted to insinuate that I am lonely and shamelessly grubbing for affection, I say this: "I am definitely shameless, sometimes lonely, but never grubbing. You are too cynical and jaded, and should go hang yourself." (I hate the way negativity is so accepted while positivity is so suspected, in this world.)

I've edited this post. Again and again. A lot. Trying to be calm, and rational, and courteous about things that means a lot to me in my heart. This is the best I could do. Please try to take it the way I mean it?

posted August 09, 2004 07:39 PM         

juniperb

posted August 09, 2004 07:43 PM         

(*I* love ya, Juni )

Pidaua, I'm going to talk about you now, K?

Pid is a volitile, bombastic, INTELLIGENT, articulate and Hilarious coversationist and arguer/debater. She is completely what one would expect from somebody with a heavily Plutonian influenced chart. And Saggie ~ arrow shooter. Maybe the more one understands about astrology, the less seriously one can take interpersonal frustrations. Honestly. The beauty of Astrology proves itself to me daily, especially when we see living examples of all the things we learn about the signs and plantets as they dance around the stage known as our personalities, as illustrated in our Natal charts.

para's what's your moon sign if you don't mind me asking? And rising? I suspect you may have some moon/crab influence. Am I right? And scorpio? hmmm.

posted August 09, 2004 08:04 PM         

For the record, you're cool with me, Juniper. I don't know you as well as I'd like, but so far my impression of you is a positive one.

I'm a forgetful one, and wrestle so hard with what's inside me that it's sometimes hard to keep up with what's inside other people. Please don't feel left out.