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Author
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Topic: We experience what we believe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 29, 2007 10:56 PM
 
Thanks 26taurus. 
 Beautiful quotes and nice pictures too!  ------------------
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 29, 2007 11:04 PM
Solane 
I loved your thread here!  http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/008547.html
Whether I agree or disagree with anything you post I will say so if I wish. Feel free to do the same with mine. So your and my opinions do not always jive. So what?
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~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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Azalaksh
Knowflake Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted July 29, 2007 11:33 PM
Solane and Fayte ~Each of you is loved and valued here -- the contributions by both of you are unique, special, irreplaceable!!
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Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 02:00 AM
Yes, they are, Zala!!! They are both definitely loved and valued by me. Both of them are dearly loved and cherished friends who enrich my life in so very many ways. It saddens me to see two dear friends who I love very much argue with each other.
Since it seems to me that it was more the second quote that upset Fayte than the first let me try to clarify.
The first quote here is from A Course of Miracles. It was Marianne Williamson who began the Course of Miracles. Her book, " A Return to Love" was a follow up on Course of Miracles. I have never been involved in or read Course of Miracles but I got so very much out of her book " A Return to Love" that I read it a few times and passed it around to all of my friends. She combines psychology with spirituality as does Wayne Dyer. Marianne Williamson is a very spiritual person and she has written many books and does a lot of workshops and siminars with Wayne Dyer. She was brought up Jewish but converted to Christianity. She was not always "religious" and has a daughter born out of marriage. I only throw that in because I like people who were sinners and messed up just like me before "getting religion."  I like St. Francis of Assisi and most of the saints for the same reason. Gives the likes of me hope. The second quote comes from Richard Bach who is the author of many books including "Jonathan Livingston Seagull." He has - as far as I know - no connection with Course of Miracles. Though I could be wrong ( and often am ). He is an ex air force flyer and well renowned author who has quite a fan following. The first quote from Course of Miracles merely states that we not only choose what we believe ( which is very true and I think we all know that ) but what we do believe is reflected in our actions or what we do in life ( also very true as we all live or at least attempt to live what we believe.) At least that is how I perceived the first quote. It was Richard Bach's quote that I feel is what Fayte objected to more than what the first quote said. I can see why. However, I do know that Star likes posting things that she gets something out of spiritually and that helps her in life and she likes sharing those things with others which is her only intention for posting them.
Fayte and Star are both beautiful souls, beautiful women who have been through much in life and only came out stronger, more spiritual, loving and compassionate as a result of all they have had to overcome in life. I admire both of them so very much. I love both of them very much. Which is why it pains me to see them arguing and I think it is just a misunderstanding that they will both work out with each other.
Love you both. 
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Dervish
Knowflake Posts: 328
From: California
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted July 30, 2007 08:03 AM
Hey, Solane Star, have you thought that maybe your beliefs – conscious and unconscious – have determined what you would experience in this thread?Ok, couldn't resist posting that. I can see both sides of this one, easy. To a point, experience affects (but aren't the sole determinant) of our beliefs, and then beliefs affect our experiences, in a continuous cycle. Sometimes, changing one's thought patterns can work miracles in changing our reality. At other times, it leads to denial and getting locked into realities you can't change because you won't acknowledge they're there, possibly even enabling negative experiences upon others who did NOT evoke their reality (like not wanting to believe someone you love is a monster to you or others--like the mother who refuses to acknowledge her husband, brother, or father are sexually abusive to children, or the father that refuses to acknowledge that his wife, sister, or mom is physically & emotionally abusive to children, because they want to believe something very different, just to list a quick example). IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 30, 2007 08:17 AM
Zala
Mirandee Mirandee you are correct...
quote:
It was Richard Bach's quote that I feel is what Fayte objected to more than what the first quote said. I can see why.
While I like some of his concepts, that is not ones I agree with.
I will however still stick with my view of the course. I have seen its effects on those most needing direction and it has led them astray or indirectly killed them by offering ambiguous advice.
Maybe I should have started my own thread on the subject.
As for Solane taking it personal, that was not my intent and I am not following her around just to disagree with her. I do agree with her from time to time and she knows it.
I disagree with folks here and there. They disagree with me too. Even you and I have had our different views, as with the H of H thread at UC.
We are not always going to agree on everything. That is an unrealistic expectation. However what an utterly boring site it would be if everyone only posted when they agreed and no one ever posted a different point of view. Where is the learning and discussion in that action? Oh of course, everyone could have given Solane all hearts and flowers and thumbs up.
Folks are often afraid to speak their mind for fear of being flamed and yelled at as Solane did to me.
I would love to read here more comments and experiences folks have had with the course, the good AND bad experiences! Who was happy with it, who was disappointed or worse by it?
Both sides please!
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~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 30, 2007 08:29 AM
Dervish  quote:
I can see both sides of this one, easy. To a point, experience affects (but aren't the sole determinant) of our beliefs, and then beliefs affect our experiences, in a continuous cycle. Sometimes, changing one's thought patterns can work miracles in changing our reality. At other times, it leads to denial and getting locked into realities you can't change because you won't acknowledge they're there, possibly even enabling negative experiences upon others who did NOT evoke their reality (like not wanting to believe someone you love is a monster to you or others--like the mother who refuses to acknowledge her husband, brother, or father are sexually abusive to children, or the father that refuses to acknowledge that his wife, sister, or mom is physically & emotionally abusive to children, because they want to believe something very different, just to list a quick example).
Yes!
I stayed with my first Ex almost 2 decades, I truly believed in my mind/heart that he could change. I desperately hoped he could. It only got worse with time.
I put up with the same with my mother, even when she threatened my life. I wanted a loving mom like Zala and Mirandee, but it was never to be no matter how much I desired it to be so.
Myself and other folks in such situations DID/DO believe, and stayed/stay locked for a time in those type patterns, until we realized that all our believing did nothing but cost us time and hard learned lessons.
As you said so well, quote:
Sometimes, changing one's thought patterns can work miracles in changing our reality. At other times, it leads to denial and getting locked into realities you can't change because you won't acknowledge they're there, possibly even enabling negative experiences upon others who did NOT evoke their reality
One must be able to recognize when nothing is changing so as to not get caught in those terrible denial loops.
Simply going about repeating over and over like a mantra; "everything is ok"....does not necessarily make it so. So goes the acronym; "SNAFU"
PS....I have known folks who went about saying everything is ok as their world fell around them. Everything was not ok. That is I feel a danger of subscribing in whole to the concept that thought makes reality. Yes, the way we feel, how we react to a situation, yes that can be changed. But not everything can with just thought alone.
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~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 623
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted July 30, 2007 08:45 AM
Fayte.I won't go into my stories but please trust that I know how you feel, I am not imagining how it feels, I know. Okay? Solane. Please also understand that I understand what you are saying because it is true, (that which you say) but may I expand upon your point, to try and show you that both you and Fayte are speaking truth, speaking of one coin, but the other describing the tails and the other the head... In my opinion, the human race is like an organism, and the individual people are like the cells that make up the human body. When the hand moves, the entire body is affectted somehow, the parts being closer to the hand being more affetcted by its movement than the further body parts. This is just an analogy. So, the rapists decides to rape someone, and they stalk the person, or they wait for a random victim. The victim is minding his/her own business and chooses to walk at that very place that the rapists are waiting. Both parties chose a certain action, but they chose with different intentions which made them end up at the same place. The rapists impose their will upon the victim, and the victim tries to impose her will by fighting against the rapists, or running, but the victim was not prepared for what was to meet her, the rapists were, so, essentially, the rapists had a stronger will because they caught the victim unaware and shocked her to paralysis, for example. The rapists rape the victim, and they get what they wanted because they have put a lot of energy into their plan (a stronger will) and the victim walks away being stripped of her energy because the rapists have stolen her energy by force by demeaning her (an understatement). The rapists chose to rape someone, the victim chose to do something that lead him/her to where the rapists are, and because the rapists are energy thieves, they hurt someone for their fix instead of getting it from a higher source. Intrinsically, she chose to be there, although she didn't shoose it with the intention of getting raped. We are all creators, but more than that, we are co-creators, and nothing can ever happen without someone helping us to get something - good or bad. Solane Star, I think you were saying that, complete blame of another is impossible because when one starts pointing fingers, we can point until we get beck to Adam and Eve, or before that. And Fayte, you are saying that a person can not blame themselves for forces of nature. That is true. Both are correct. We create collectively, and to blame yourself completely for anything is a great disservice to one's self; similarly, not taking responsibility for one's life events is equally hurtful because you stifle your evolution, and dampen you spiritual vigilance. Life is like a sadistic dance, and unfortunately, we only get to see most of its blessing in retrospect. The victim although hurt, when he/she is healed, I bet you with my life, would never trade that experience for another because that pain has made him/her the great person they are today. Hence you will here people say that there are no victims because something good always comes out of everything. It is not easy to accept these "awful" blessings when it happens to our loved ones; and when a loved one is taken away from us, all we can do is grieve and go through all the necessary emotions, and when this happens, the last thing one wants to hear is to "cheer up" or "it's your fault" and the reason it does not sit well is simply because it is not the entire representation of the experience. It touches on it, but not entirely. Excuse any errors I might have made.
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 30, 2007 09:45 AM
Unmoved.....
Thank you for your viewpoints. I understand whence you are coming from, but do not entirely agree. quote:
to blame yourself completely for anything is a great disservice to one's self; similarly, not taking responsibility for one's life events is equally hurtful because you stifle your evolution, and dampen you spiritual vigilance.
We could go on and on discussing Karmic debts and destiny and fate or God's will. But sometimes bad (and good too) things just happen, luck of the draw. The idea that we are responsible for our life events is partially true. But that can be quite complex. One does not go out to get raped for example. Oh of course if they knew it was a bad part of town or knew getting drunk and going off alone with a stranger...yeah...one could say in part that they allowed the rape to happen. But the rapist also had no right to do it. Now we can go on to say that it was Karmic debt and the victim had raped the attacker in another lifetime. By that token no one is ever guilty and there are no victims. So just let everyone do as they please, get rid of laws because it is all as it should be. Or in Christian thought...go rape pillage and murder and confess, or get born again over and over and as long as you take Jesus in your heart with your dying breath no matter what you have done, all is forgiven. So again, no victims...do what you want. Well life is not that tidy nor do I feel God so fickle. A child does not deserve nor needs to take responsibility for things done to them for example. A man depositing his check at an ATM machine should not bear the brunt of nor any responsibility if a crazy person jumped out and shoots him. This is where Karmic debts and excuses, and religious absolutions fail I feel.
Please see my thread on such here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002124.html
quote:
Life is like a sadistic dance, and unfortunately, we only get to see most of its blessing in retrospect. The victim although hurt, when he/she is healed, I bet you with my life, would never trade that experience for another because that pain has made him/her the great person they are today.
I do see the lessons I have learned and the all that. However.... quote:
The victim although hurt, when he/she is healed, I bet you with my life, would never trade that experience for another
Sorry, but If I were you I'd take back that betting your life because you just lost the bet figuratively speaking. I do count the hardships I have faced as blessings in disguise. However I did not want nor would I wish such "lessons" and "blessings" on anyone! I would much rather I'd never been raped or injured. 
I do not need to be a starving person or a leper to have empathy for such. It is not necessary for an evolved soul to have to go through such things to understand and have compassion. If we subscribe to the concept that we always deserve or ask for the bad things that happen, then lets just drop empathy and compassion then! Stop calling some folks criminals, stop helping those in need, there are no victims after all, everyone deserves and gets what they asked for! Yeah right.
quote:
Hence you will here people say that there are no victims because something good always comes out of everything.
If that were taken to its extreme it means no prosecuting criminals, let them just teach us! And it can go on and on into ridiculousness and a justification for any action from thereon. Where does one draw the line? And something good may take a long time to manifest after such adverse events, if ever in a person's lifetime. So I still submit, we should not take responsibility nor blame for everything that happens to us. Sometimes it is totally another's fault and or luck of the draw.
I notice that more often than not folks who subscribe to the concept that we take responsibility for things that happen or are done to us, or that we get what we deserve or thought makes reality; cry some of the biggest oh woe is them when hardship and adversities hit them! Oh God, why me? I don't deserve this! Wah wah wah! Those ideas sound very zen or whatever until it happens to them or those they love and suddenly a different tune is sung or cried by them.
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~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 623
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted July 30, 2007 11:13 AM
I just want to hug you right now because I think words are not enough to convey the message I am trying to send. You know, I could be agreeing with you... you know... I seldom think of anything as an absolute, I haven't done so for a long time. I can't help but see the duality in it all. I can justify both you and SS's views. If you read what I wrote, you will see that I dd not mention, God, Karma, debt repayments or fate. I was speaking more of cause and effect, and in this thing I was trying to describe, there are no necessary punishments, no obligations, no guilt etc. I especially did not speak of anyone having the "right" to do anything. Why did I not mention these things? Because they are perspective driven. Who am I to tell you that this is good, or this is bad? Who am I to tell you that you should feel a certain way at a certain time? Who am I to tell anyone that anything is anything? I am no one. My rights end with myself, telling that this and that is right or wrong would be infringing upon your right, but I can react in a way that best defines me as who I am. Now, as a person who felt you hurting, you and SS, and as a person who desired to share anything with the two of you that could make you see that the two of you are both speaking some truth, I decided to say this,not to convinve you of anything, but to offer anything that ccould make your heart be still. Does that make sense? The reason I wrote on this page was so that you can just feel better, if only a little, knowing that I have been through your experiences, and that it does get better, and that life is not picking on a good person. I am not a "life's a bowl of cherry sort of girl". I have been angry, I've felt I did not deserve it, and I still feel that. I have felt that some humans are evil. Actually, I still get my days, even today when I feel like that. Fayte. For some reason, I was drawn here and I cared when I read your stuff. Just because two views are totally opposing each other does not mean that one has to be false for the other to be true. It's just one of those paradoxes as you mentioned in the link above. The spirit of my communication today was simply to give you love, not to aggravate you more. My attempt was bad, but I don't blame myself, even though I know that I "might" have contributed to it. Get it. Okay, never mind - Basically, when I was three, my father was shot (S.Africa civil war), at 15, I was gang-raped, I was hit by a truck at one time (hee hee) and I have had two near death experience, one from a collapsed lung and one where blood just left my head, having to spend 3 weeks in ICU, to name a few reasons why I understand you more than you think. Do what you need to do, and don't be affected by people who might suggest to you that your experiences are a matter of being positive. They are not speaking to you personally. SS was just trying to spread her love in her way, just as I am, just as you are. We are all saying the same things, but in different ways that make it seem as if we are at odds. We all desire to be better, to be happy, etc. Yeah, that is why I wrote to you and SS, for a resolution because I saw one. IP: Logged |
miss_muffet
Knowflake Posts: 832
From:
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 11:30 AM
Hi fayte.m,I actually do share a lot of your view points. I completely understand where you are coming from... I just love the way you think. Call it as you see it, no amount of positive thinking is going to fix things that are wrong in anyone's life. It is better to accept the things that are not so good and move on. My personal favorite prayer (I might quote it completely wrong but the gist is there): Lord, please grant me the serenity to
accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference. Positive thinking is good if it gives you strength to face the things that are "wrong" but should not be used as "blind faith" so you cannot see what is real just because you want to change your experience... which is exactly what this statement implies: quote:
What you first of all believe is what you will experience.
In my humble opinion, we learn to deal with the "bad things" that happen to us when we "Accept" it. Because only when we accept that bad things do happen to everyone, we can concerntrate on DOING something about it. Changing your experiences through positive thinking only blinds you to the truth and at some point, becomes completely impractical to do so. Miss Muffet IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 623
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted July 30, 2007 11:54 AM
Like the guy who said, "I can fly" and jumped off a 20 storey building, and... died.
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miss_muffet
Knowflake Posts: 832
From:
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 11:56 AM
Oh that is funny. Love your example Unmoved! Miss Muffet IP: Logged |
26taurus
Knowflake Posts: 13411
From: *
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 12:40 PM
fayte ` IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 30, 2007 02:26 PM
Unmoved
miss_muffet
I really like your replies! If you have read some of my back posts since
I have been at LL you would see that I can definitely relate to what you have both written. 
My body is a wreck and I have been through much to date in my going on 53 years.
I am still optimistic yet a realist.
I do love the Serenity prayer and have posted it several times myself.
I like this too, even though it may not totally apply here, and I am not a Christian,
it brings me comfort in times of doubt.
quote:
Jesus said, "let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the all."
Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you. For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."
From "The Gospel of Thomas"
Ever notice how when things seem the darkest...the glimmers of light suddenly become
clearer in that terrible abysmal place?
Ever notice how sometimes we need to hit bottom, because when the bottom has been
found, one has no choice but to rise up?
We can learn so much in that low dark place.
Soon it can become even calming and womblike and allow us a rebirthing of self.
We can rebirth ourselves over and over. Retreating into the safe place, beyond the darkness,
and there we can heal or at least rest for awhile. BTW you have also made me laugh! Thank you both! ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!" ~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 30, 2007 02:31 PM
26taurus 
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!" ~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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Azalaksh
Knowflake Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 02:34 PM
Unmoved ~You are a very wise soul IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 30, 2007 02:44 PM
miss_muffet
quote:
In my humble opinion, we learn to deal with the "bad things" that happen to us when we "Accept" it. Because only when we accept that bad things do happen to everyone, we can concerntrate on DOING something about it.Changing your experiences through positive thinking only blinds you to the truth and at some point, becomes completely impractical to do so.
I agree but would change this bit "Changing your experiences through positive thinking only blinds you to the truth and at some point," to:"Changing your outlook of an experience by what you think is positive thinking but is in actuality a denial mechanism only blinds you to the truth".
After I became disabled I stubbornly refused to use a cane. I kept telling myself I did not need it. So stubborn I was and embarrassed to go about with a cane that I had to fall, break more bones etcetera before I faced the hard fact, "I am disabled!".
I finally swallowed my pride and accepted that fact rather than trying to "positive" think it away and got a very nice heavy cane!
Actually it is shepherd's hook and much sturdier than a common cane!
And as I told another..
"I am disabled, but I am not my disabilities!"
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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Azalaksh
Knowflake Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 02:50 PM
Fayte and Unmoved ~ quote:
(quote) The victim although hurt, when he/she is healed, I bet you with my life, would never trade that experience for another (unquote)
Sorry, but If I were you I'd take back that betting your life because you just lost the bet figuratively speaking. I do count the hardships I have faced as blessings in disguise. However I did not want nor would I wish such "lessons" and "blessings" on anyone! I would much rather I'd never been raped or injured.
I do not need to be a starving person or a leper to have empathy for such. It is not necessary for an evolved soul to have to go through such things to understand and have compassion.
Your interchange here made me stop and think for a few minutes…..
Using my previous example, would I trade my experience, of being beat up by someone I loved who professed to love me, for NOT having endured that??
Well….. yes!! And, no.
I don’t think I could have fully appreciated, no matter my degree of empathy, the fear, humiliation, anger and pain that abused women suffer, if I had not gone thru it myself. And I learned a hell of a lot about courage, compassion, mental illness, dysfunctional relationships, self-esteem/self-respect and drug abuse – things I never would have understood if I hadn’t been involved in this relationship. I’m a stronger person in every way for having endured that period of my life, and found the guts to escape it. So in that way, the experience had a positive outcome. But if I could have acquired that courage and self-confidence any other way, I would not have chosen to be in that relationship!!!IP: Logged |
Azalaksh
Knowflake Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 02:54 PM
PS: Fayte, I like your new sig line  IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted July 30, 2007 02:59 PM
Thank you Zala!  PS.Unmoved...I was hit by a car and had a NDE then and a few other NDEs from other causes. And a couple of strokes were really weird experiences.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
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Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 623
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted July 30, 2007 04:16 PM
Can I call you Zala too? I like it.Thank you Azalaksh. You know, I guess that it is because I can not turn back the hands of time that I have probably made myself believe that I would not exchange the experiences. These things have opened my eyes in a very unique way. But... Every road has it's pros and cons I suppose, and so, who knows how much worse off it could have been? Yeah, one would say to oneself, "can it get worse than this?" Personally, one never thinks so, but I am certain that there's another realm of pain out there that we are protected from and we don't even know how lucky we have been. Fact is: I would kill myself if I weren't philosophical and positive about these things. Thank you guys. This was comforting.
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Azalaksh
Knowflake Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted July 30, 2007 05:08 PM
Unmoved ~Of course you can call me Zala!! 
Very few people can pronounce or type Azalaksh, that's why I shortened it PS: You may be "Unmoved", but I find your posts very Moving IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted August 01, 2007 08:35 AM
Thank-You & " MOVED VERY MUCH " by your message and your way of conveying it!!!Unmoved Quote: I just want to hug you right now because I think words are not enough to convey the message I am trying to send. You know, I could be agreeing with you... you know...
I seldom think of anything as an absolute, I haven't done so for a long time. I can't help but see the duality in it all. I can justify both you and SS's views. If you read what I wrote, you will see that I dd not mention, God, Karma, debt repayments or fate. I was speaking more of cause and effect, and in this thing I was trying to describe, there are no necessary punishments, no obligations, no guilt etc. I especially did not speak of anyone having the "right" to do anything. Why did I not mention these things? Because they are perspective driven. Who am I to tell you that this is good, or this is bad? Who am I to tell you that you should feel a certain way at a certain time? Who am I to tell anyone that anything is anything? I am no one. My rights end with myself, telling that this and that is right or wrong would be infringing upon your right, but I can react in a way that best defines me as who I am. Now, as a person who felt you hurting, you and SS, and as a person who desired to share anything with the two of you that could make you see that the two of you are both speaking some truth, I decided to say this,not to convinve you of anything, but to offer anything that ccould make your heart be still. Does that make sense? The reason I wrote on this page was so that you can just feel better, if only a little, knowing that I have been through your experiences, and that it does get better, and that life is not picking on a good person. I am not a "life's a bowl of cherry sort of girl". I have been angry, I've felt I did not deserve it, and I still feel that. I have felt that some humans are evil. Actually, I still get my days, even today when I feel like that. Fayte. For some reason, I was drawn here and I cared when I read your stuff. Just because two views are totally opposing each other does not mean that one has to be false for the other to be true. It's just one of those paradoxes as you mentioned in the link above. The spirit of my communication today was simply to give you love, not to aggravate you more. My attempt was bad, but I don't blame myself, even though I know that I "might" have contributed to it. Get it. Okay, never mind - Basically, when I was three, my father was shot (S.Africa civil war), at 15, I was gang-raped, I was hit by a truck at one time (hee hee) and I have had two near death experience, one from a collapsed lung and one where blood just left my head, having to spend 3 weeks in ICU, to name a few reasons why I understand you more than you think. Do what you need to do, and don't be affected by people who might suggest to you that your experiences are a matter of being positive. They are not speaking to you personally. SS was just trying to spread her love in her way, just as I am, just as you are. We are all saying the same things, but in different ways that make it seem as if we are at odds. We all desire to be better, to be happy, etc. Yeah, that is why I wrote to you and SS, for a resolution because I saw one.
BLESS YOU!!!!
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted August 01, 2007 08:36 AM
THANKS GUYS!!!IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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