posted December 13, 2004 01:16 AM         

It seems that all of my relationships end because after about six months I begin to feel a void inside of me which manifests itself as me not believing that my boyfriend really loves me. It's very real to me, this feeling. And I usually have no reason to feel this way. Throughout my childhood I experienced phsical and emotional abuse and neglect by both of my parents. I really think they didn't know how to do any better, but that's what they did.

Anyway, I've had a bad week with my boyfriend, all revolving around this issue... this feeling that I need something from him and he feeling like he is doing all the things I'm asking for, but I'm not realizing it. And he's right. He tells me all the time how he feels about me, he is supportive of me, he stays in frequent contact with me. The problem is me, and this isn't the first time I've dealt with this. This is how all of my relationships end. I don't want this to end. But I am afraid that I won't be able to stop myself from ending it one way or another.

I've read several books about adults abused as children and the inability to accept love is a common occurence. My boyfriend tells me/ shows me constantly how he feels about me. I just don't believe it. Like it doesn't register with me. But if he gives me any type of criticism, no matter how constructive, it goes straight to my heart and I take it very personally. The good things he says/does far outweigh the bad, but inside of me, the bad carries a much heavier weight. He knows about my past, but there's only so much I can expect a person to put up with before they are compromising themselves. I have to change this, but I really, really don't know how.

I've been to counseling and it helped me to restore some of my self-worth. In most situations I have a very healthy sense of self. This only manifests itself for me within a romantic relationship. I engage in behaviors that drive my boyfriends away like constantly questioning their feelings for me, making plans then breaking them because I feel like they really don't want to do anything with me, playing games to test them. As I write this out, the behavior sounds bizarre to me. Rationally I know I am better than this, but the truth is, these are really things I do. I do these things out of a feeling of not wanting to inconvenience anyone with having to be with me. I pull away so I don't have to eventually watch them pull away from me. And when they say they love me, I rationalize it by telling myself that they only think they do. I believe their intentions are good but they don't know what they are talking about. What I don't realize is how much this hurts the other person. I never see it that way.

This is wrecking my life! I finally have a relationship that is worth holding on to with a guy who cares very much for me (I realize this on an intellectual level) but I can't break out of this pattern. I am so afraid that I have to change too much in too little time to keep this relationship from ending. My boyfriend has been very supportive, but it's starting to take its toll on him and that breaks my heart. He doesn't want to lose me, but he also can't continue like this.

I know this is long and it's kind of an embarrassing problem. But if anyone has anything to offer, I would appreciate it.

posted December 13, 2004 10:38 AM         

We talk frequently about a future together and it seems that since we have begun talking about this, the feelings of emptiness have grown stronger. Probably because I realize that this could be real and therefore have so much more to lose. But I'm working on it. It's so hard to let his feelings get past my mind and into my heart!

posted December 13, 2004 11:48 AM         

My point is maybe you subconsciously want something you never got as a child, and even though your bf is giving it to you, you don't recogize it because you don't know what it feels like?

posted December 13, 2004 01:47 PM         

I used to feel this way a lot, and still do sometimes, try spending some non romantic time with your boyfriend with no pressure. Such as sitting and watching a movie on tv that is very low key, listening to jazz or low key music, being very low key is good for Saturn in the 8th. You would do well to have a massage once in a while with no talking, just music and silence.

Those quiet times build up the trust you need.
Possibly you don't trust him to trust you to be the kind of person he wants, but he does want you!

Don't worry, we end up not perfect, and relationships are not perfect either, they function and make us happy in some ways and that's enough. Nothing is ever perfect, and looking for perfection kills off your spirit and passion.

If you can't stop thinking about it, you may be depressed, or not getting enough B vitamins. Seriously, start taking a B vitamin supplement, and amino acids. See what happens.

Does your boyfriend have Cancer anywhere in his chart? If not then you may want to spend some time with a Cancer male or female, as this sign is very nurturing when it comes to self esteem issues. They are capable of absorbing negativity, taking it off your shoulders.

posted December 13, 2004 03:09 PM         

Hereisgone... the same thing happened with me and singing, same age and everything. I still remember it clearly and I didn't sing for a very long time. Now I sing all the time and my son sings his little heart out and it makes me very happy to hear him. He recently made up his own song and the words he sang with his sweet little taurus voice touched me: "everybody fights sometimes... that's why we have to be calm..." He was so sincere! (He's four.)

What I've decided to do about this is to make sure the communication between my boyfriend and me stays open. I've been trying to think about the nice things he says and play them over in my mind... made me realize how much I obsess over the bad things and quickly discard the good things. And I'm just trying to take it in in small doses... making sure I can "feel" what he's saying before moving on, trying to make sure it registers.

After posting last night and doing some thinking I feel much better about us today than I have for a long time. All of you have been a big help. This won't be easy, but I'm ready to start learning how to feel good. I don't want to lose this guy.

Thank you all very much!
Carissa

P.S. Sthenri, I do tend to do better when I take B vitamins and you are right when you say that I'm really geared toward low-key types of activities. Sometimes I overlook this... sun and asc sag, libra moon... it's hard for me to settle down sometimes, but when I do it really restores me. Here are my placements:

Planetary positions
planet sign degree house motion
Sun Sagittarius 24°41'40 12 direct
Moon Libra 21°55'11 10 direct
Mercury Capricorn 14°14'33 01 direct
Venus Aquarius 08°12'23 02 direct
Mars Sagittarius 18°30'11 12 direct
Jupiter Taurus 22°40'23 05 retrograde
Saturn Leo 16°33'13 08 retrograde
Uranus Scorpio 10°11'57 10/11 direct
Uranus is technically near the end of house 10 and is interpreted in house 11.
Neptune Sagittarius 14°05'33 12 direct
Pluto Libra 13°54'46 10 direct
True Node Scorpio 02°14'29 10 direct

House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Sagittarius 28°10'58
2nd House Aquarius 01°43'53
3rd House Pisces 08°08'22
Imum Coeli Aries 12°17'56
5th House Taurus 10°59'19
6th House Gemini 05°19'19
Descendant Gemini 28°10'58
8th House Leo 01°43'53
9th House Virgo 08°08'22
Medium Coeli Libra 12°17'56
11th House Scorpio 10°59'19
12th House Sagittarius 05°19'19

Major aspects
Sun Sextile Moon 2°46
Sun Conjunction Mars 6°11
Sun Quincunx Jupiter 2°01
Sun Conjunction Ascendant 3°29
Moon Square Mercury 7°41
Moon Sextile Mars 3°25
Moon Quincunx Jupiter 0°45
Moon Sextile Saturn 5°22
Moon Sextile Neptune 7°50
Moon Sextile Ascendant 6°16
Mercury Quincunx Saturn 2°19
Mercury Sextile Uranus 4°03
Mercury Square Pluto 0°20
Venus Square Uranus 2°00
Venus Sextile Neptune 5°53
Venus Trine Pluto 5°42
Mars Trine Saturn 1°57
Mars Conjunction Neptune 4°25
Mars Sextile Pluto 4°35
Saturn Trine Neptune 2°28
Saturn Sextile Pluto 2°38
Neptune Sextile Pluto 0°11

posted December 13, 2004 04:42 PM         

I'd also say non romantic low-key activities are good for you. I think any planet in 8th picks up others' romantic (subconscious) vibes. For Saturn it can create the fear that too much is expected.

Also, Saturn is not good with middle ground there. Trust is given either totally or not at all. To get the Saturn person to that point of trust can take a lot of work. It sounds you are already doing that work with your partner, which is good. You have transiting Saturn in 7th hs now, so it is very good time for such work with a partner.

By the way Merc square Pluto seems to be tightest aspect. You may (seriously) underestimate the power of your words. You can cut much deeper you ever intended, but also give strength and light. Where is your Chiron? 5th?

And certainly take the vitamins!

posted December 13, 2004 06:21 PM         

Your Mars and 1st house are ruled by Sag. How interesting. I have the same pattern, and so maybe that's why my advice works for you. I too need low key activities, and my ex has Saturn in the 8th in Capricorn. I know he picks up everyone's mood, and he needs calm and quiet. He always feels rejected if he doesn't get that quiet empathy. He does well with pets and children too, very soft hearted.

I always tell him that I will call him later in the day if I talk to him, or tell him I will try and call him later, that I will think about him when I hang up. He needs that even if he's my ex. I never spent enough time with him that's true.

We both had that problem of receiving love, so we are apart. But I do get insecure about my looks big time. Feeling instead of thinking, such as painting is the key for Mars in Sag, I think because there is less interaction with the past.

Try setting goals for the future and draw or paint, see how that works for you.

My Mars in Sag Grandmother was a huge crafter, she was painting, drawing, or spray painting something 24 hours a day. She never talked and people always said she wasn't very into receiving love, but she was incredibly appreciative and giving in the way she lived her life. She loved jewelry, fun things, being somewhere full of life, carnivals, or new restaurants.

Sag likes newness, so make sure to go to the new cinema, or gallery near you with your boyfriend. And work together on a creative project without talking. Is he a talky one?

posted December 14, 2004 06:35 AM         

A couple of people have touched on some of the things that I'm about to say but I wanted to add to what has already been said.

When a child does not receive the unconditional love of a parent, their self-image is damaged and it's a long haul back to the road of healing.

To start with, if you don't resolve your problems in childhood, you will continue to draw similar people into your life as an adult, to give yourself another chance to sort things out. This is the pattern in your relationships that you speak of.

You might be interested in reading a book called "Are you the One for Me" written by Barbara De Angelis. It discusses these kinds of patterns and how to recognise them.

If your parents weren't there for you when you were a child, it is natural to select partners who won't be there for you as an adult because it confirms what you believe about yoursElf (which is that you are not worthy of love). How could you be worthy of love, because even your parents didn't love you? Do you see where I'm going with this?

Then, maybe you come across a partner who is there for you, but it is such unfamiliar territory, it is scary. You have never known love, so you run from it.

You start to question everything that you believe about yoursElf and so that you can prove yoursElf correct, you push them away (and set up little tests like you explained, or sabotage the relationship to distance yourself) to bring your belief back into your reality. It is where you are safe. Inside your wall with your heart closed.

It is a destructive pattern and one that has its foundation based on the unequal power of the child-parent relationship.

The thing is, that it is a pattern and the key to breaking a pattern involves many steps. The first step is reconition, followed closely by acceptance. It seems that you have those two steps under control. So the time is ripe, for you to break that pattern.

You have to accept that your parents did a $hitty job. But now, as an adult, you have the chance to forgive them, and yourself, and heal and move on.

What is it that you really fear about love? What do you know and believe about love? I feel that you think that if you let somebody love you, they will hurt and/or abandon you. You like to control the situation by pushing them away. It's like, a get them before they get you attitude.

Real love is not like that.

Yeah sure, love is a risk and sometimes we get hurt. But through the pain, you grow and your soul evolves. Isn't that what we're all here for anyhow?

Take a chance Carissa. Tear down that wall that surrounds your heart. Open up and you might just experience some real love.

Break the pattern. You can do it, and you can do it now.

with love

posted December 14, 2004 11:36 AM         

I do have that book by Barbara De Angeles... it's fantastic. Perhaps it's time to go back and reread.

I don't know exactly what it is I'm afraid of. Abandonment is a biggie though on a subconscious level. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said what you did about questioning everything I believe about myself. If someone doesn't love me, I can understand that easily. When someone does love me, I find that I wrack my brain trying to figure out why. It just doesn't make sense to me. That's where I am right now and I feel like until I can understand why I can't believe it. But I am still working...

posted December 15, 2004 07:42 AM         

It's all about perception. Stop spending so much energy on "why would someone love me", and focus on "hey, I'm great - I am love, love me - love ME". Say it to yourself in front of a mirror and soon, you will start to believe it and change your reality. The mind is a very powerful slave, when programmed correctly. Be kind and caring to yoursElf, always.

I'm speaking from personal experience, as I was abandoned by my mother when I was 13 and have taken a long time to work through it. I lived all of those patterns that I spoke of but I also broke the cycle.

There is another Barbara De Angelis book that you might like to read. It is called "Secrets about life every woman should know". Don't get it confused with yet another of hers which is "Secrets about men every woman should know' (though they are all excellent reading).

There is a brilliant section in "Secrets about life every woman should know" where she describes a roomful of souls, that discuss what qualities they need to learn, in order to evolve. Then she explains how we as fellow souls, choose to assist and fill certain roles in each other's life, to ensure that their lessons are learnt.

sweetlibra, regarding the development of abandoned people and their next generation and whether they will act out (rebel) that trait. I read a book (and I think it was called "Dark Secrets...." and it was about traits being passed through generations. And there is a tendency to act out, or in, certain traits from one generation to the next. If I could use an alcoholic as an example. A child of an alcoholic may become a tea totaller to rebel against their parents trait. Then, the tea totaller's child might become an alcoholic, to rebel against the tea totaller. That is called acting out.

Acting in is where the child of the alcoholic knows no better and becomes an alcoholic themselves.

These traits only continue until the pattern is recognised, accepted and broken.

I know that I don't remember ever being told by either parent that they loved me, and I believe that my maternal grandparents never verbally expressed their love for my mother and her sister, either. I've broken the cycle and I tell my children all the time. I don't think this is smothering. I believe that a child can never be told enough that they are loved.

However, I do believe that somebody could smother their child if they had not recognised it was acting out against a trait to start with. Does that make sense?

posted December 15, 2004 02:37 PM         

Do whatever it takes, wear any kind of dress, do your hair any colour you want, take risks, emotionally and physically, you won't hear that often. BUT it works! That is the only way to rebuild your confidence. Don't let anyone tear you down, even yourself.

And, just a trick. Never wear an unflattering color or outfit, and try to never do something you don't like to do to please your boyfriend. Not ever. It will show on your face.

Watch the Joy Luck Club, when a woman made a mistake of confidence and she says, I died like my Grandmother did many years ago? She meant she was making the same mistake of feeling unloved, and lost her identity for a while. In the story, which is a book and movie, she breaks up with her husband when they feel she is too insecure in the marriage.

When she learns her Grandmother killed herself out of shame of not being loved, she realizes that she is falling into the same pattern.

We all die a little when we love someone, if we don't feel we have our identity, even a sad one, it's so much harder.

Speaking from the same, mother abandoned both my sister and I when I was 12, I never feel love is free of that destructive quality 100% of the time. But love is not perfect either, it's imperfect, just like everything great. I try to make that part of me so I can put it in perspective.

posted June 01, 2005 11:18 PM         

I find it is theraputic to see where I was 6 mos. ago......

posted June 02, 2005 01:14 AM         

I too feel the same sort of thoughts about my parents, and they aren't the best example of how people ought to love one another, though they've stayed together.

posted June 02, 2005 05:11 PM         

It takes so much effort and lack of ego on my part to make myself emotionally available whenever he needs me, but not to force the feelings on him or expect too much in return. I have to learn to love unconditionally and patiently. It is hard, but worth it. I'm sure there are tougher lessons to learn in the future, but it takes one step at a time.

I know that his parents were divorced during his childhood and that he still is in contact with his mom, but I never hear anything about his dad. His chart is very interesting in that his Venus is squared to his Pluto, Saturn and Mars and sits by itself in Capricorn. His Sun is also in opposition to his Moon. Here's a cool link I found that helped me to understand his Venus aspects in relation to the way he behaves : http://www.skyscript.co.uk/venusaspects.html

Futrure uncertain, I wish you the best and hope you find peace and strength

posted June 02, 2005 05:18 PM         

Pix, it's so funny that you brought this up yesterday because just yesterday I was going through old threads, reading through my old stuff as a self-check kind of thing... just like you said. Blew my mind to see this thread bumped and the comment you made about looking back on yourself! And of course I don't mind.

I didn't post a thing all day yesterday because I was/have been contemplating a name change... more on this in FFA soon. It drove me nuts, though to only be able to lurk around Lindaland, muddling through my indecisiveness. (Darn libra stellium!)

Acoustic God~ I can totally relate to what you're saying. Things have gotten better for me since I started this thread, but it's still a struggle. It's so hard to break old patterns. And if you're like me, it's not sufficient to just say "to hell with the past, I'm going to just push it aside." I need to work through things, not bury them. You said it's written all over your chart. What placements/ aspects do you have that you believe indicate such a thing? I'd be interested in cross-referencing my chart.

Pix, could you and I be experiencing Saturn returns? I talked to AG about this a little bit already, and it's something I'm definitely interested in exploring.

Looking forward to hearing back from all of you!

posted June 02, 2005 07:04 PM         

Moon in Virgo
Saturn in the 1st House
Mercury opposition Saturn

Venus Sqr Conjunct Oppos Saturn Orb 6° 43'

In this lifetime the arena of human relationships and personal love will be full of challenge and lessons for you. Love is hard to find, hard to sustain or just plain hard! Shyness and loneliness, due mostly to an acute sensitivity to the possibility of rejection, are apt to plague your younger years. Even when friendship and open affection is offered to you, you are prone to doubt it, push it away in disbelief, or feel unworthy of it. Pure, unadulterated pleasure in any form discomforts you. Subconsciously at least, you believe that there is a price to be paid for any love or pleasure you receive, that you may be punished if you enjoy too much or love too much. There is an inner link between love and loss, love and separation, or love and punishment that inhibits you or makes you wary. Worst of all, you may feel that you are unlovable or unwanted. All of this is a karmic carry-over that needs to be handled with great compassion toward yourself. You may have toughened up and hardened your heart a great deal due to past injury, so that you have acted in cold, unfeeling, ungenerous or unloving ways towards others and yourself. Perhaps, too, you have put work or other responsibilities ahead of the needs and desires of your heart. An opening and healing of the heart, first of all, by cherishing yourself, is necessary. Once you start valuing yourself, your personal relationships will reflect that, and happiness in love in your later years can do much to make up for the earlier difficulties.

(This is interesting) Moon Conjunct South Node

Your family, early childhood conditioning, or emotional dependencies and attachments to the past are very strong, and tend to run counter to your growth direction for this lifetime. Instead of abandoning our old ways, try adding on or integrating the new direction.

Your Venus inharmoniously aspects Saturn.

You have chosen, through this aspect, perhaps your greatest challenge for achieving either great healing or great hurt!

By choosing a time of birth when these two planets were in an inharmonious pattern with each other in the zodiac, you brought with you into this experience the challenging sides of your betweenlife experiences in Venus, realm of creativity, beauty and love, and Saturn, the dimension of deep change, self-purging and remolding. Because your soul flight paths from Venus and Saturn were thus at odds with each other, as a soul re-entering the earth plane, you read from and have since acted upon the debit side of your spiritual record.

In other words, you are inclined to attract associations from previous lives which are the karmic source of relationship challenges you face this lifetime as well as difficulties in loving and appreciating yourself. These past disappointments in love and disillusionment with marriage are being brought back to you for a proper hearing and, hopefully, a permanent healing.

Since self-healing must be preceded by self-knowledge, recognize your tendency toward separateness and self-centeredness, both of which hurt those you love and those who would love you, were you to let them. As you get older, loneliness and related personal limitations may set in, including problems with finances (Venus rules both love and money). Ironically, in spite of your apparent self-sufficiency, you must face and overcome the difficulty of standing up alone in the world, of being truly independent emotionally.

Your soul journeys in the spheres of Venus and Saturn between death and rebirth inclines you to hold yourself aloof from other people, their thoughts and their opinions, because what suits you is usually quite self-sufficient. What relationships you have tend to be rather intense, unless you balance yourself through spiritualizing your emotions.
You are doubtful at times of the sincerity of others who try to proclaim their affections for you or who try to get close to you. At other times, this intensity may manifest as jealousy when there is reason to suspect infidelity. Remember that, while all love is lawful, not all expressions of love are expedient (for example, tolerating or encouraging adultery are not supportive of soul growth, regardless of who is the 'adulterer' and who the 'adulteree').