posted December 18, 2019 02:30 PM            

Both his Sun and Moon are closely cusping Water Signs. Jupiter is in it's own Sign, giving both Jupiter and that Sign (a water Sign, Pisces), some strength/highlighting.

While Mars and Neptune are not conjunct each other, they are both conjunct the IC and square to the Ascendant. Mars has intensity of feeling in the more primitive sense, and Neptune has intensity of feeling in a more sublime and subtle sense--when you mix the two, you get a more typical "emotionality".

The Moon is in the 5th House, which both Stephen Arroyo and I agree is the next most amplifying area of the chart after the Angles (and in some ways, may be more so than the 7th--which is more projected upon others and the 4th, which is more unconscious and deeper within a person). Hence, the Moon is somewhat amplified/prominent, especially in a self expressive sense.

posted December 18, 2019 02:41 PM            

Fire is more flaring and intense in the moment, and Water is more holding on type feeling, but both are strong in emotions.

Leo and Fire Signs in general are less apt to show it on the surface interestingly (opposite to what is often said of them) unless it's anger and they just can't hold it in. They can be feeling some pretty intense stuff and be all poker face otherwise (I know this really contradicts mainstream astro dogma and teachings).

But what I don't get, is why that close Mercury Sun conjunction isn't dampening the very close Leo-Cancer cusping with his Sun. It's possible that he has a developed intellect at the same time, but still is quite emotionally attuned.

Then again, I go from times of feeling like what Spock shows (like neutral 0 Zen state), to being super intensely emotional, whether as to tears or joy.

posted December 18, 2019 02:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Provided his chart is correct (which I [b]never assume):

Both his Sun and Moon are closely cusping Water Signs. Jupiter is in it's own Sign, giving both Jupiter and that Sign (a water Sign, Pisces), some strength/highlighting.

While Mars and Neptune are not conjunct each other, they are both conjunct the IC and square to the Ascendant. Mars has intensity of feeling in the more primitive sense, and Neptune has intensity of feeling in a more sublime and subtle sense--when you mix the two, you get a more typical "emotionality".

The Moon is in the 5th House, which both Stephen Arroyo and I agree is the next most amplifying area of the chart after the Angles (and in some ways, may be more so than the 7th--which is more projected upon others and the 4th, which is more unconscious and deeper within a person). Hence, the Moon is somewhat amplified/prominent, especially in a self expressive sense.

It would be even more so if in a direct, major aspect to the Ascendant degree at the same time. [/B]

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Hello,

the birth time is correct so I reckon the chart is, too. His moon is conjunct my mercury in Aqua and I don't feel like a Pisces mercury at all just because it's in the late degrees of Aqua, so I don't know how cusping water signs will make someone more watery if you know what I mean. Someone else I know is a Capricorn sun in the 0 degrees and he has nothing Sagittarian about him. He is one of the most Cap people I've ever met.

posted December 18, 2019 02:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
Sun/Mercury in the 10th, and Venus in the 11th, might feel comfortable with his feelings being on display. Possibly Moon in the 5th, too?

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posted December 18, 2019 02:52 PM            

Then consider the nature of Libra, his Ascendant. Libra is the least cerebral and the most heart oriented of the Air Signs via it's Venus rulership/connection.

While it's a masculine/yang Sign, it is the first of the Signs of the Zodiac to be more of a combo/balance of both Yin and Yang. This is to say, that it's not uncommon for those with strong Libra placements, to have a definite feeling nature, though not anywhere near as intense as say Leo or Scorpio. But Libra is being known as being somewhat sensitive.

Which is why it can and often does correlate with the arts and/or music, because you need some deeper sensitivity and a feeling nature to excel in these. But these two also have their left brain/intellectual/anaylstical/step by step logical aspects too, and Libra is balanced, or seeks balance, between these.

posted December 18, 2019 03:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
Hello,

the birth time is correct so I reckon the chart is, too. His moon is conjunct my mercury in Aqua and I don't feel like a Pisces mercury at all just because it's in the late degrees of Aqua, so I don't know how cusping water signs will make someone more watery if you know what I mean. Someone else I know is a Capricorn sun in the 0 degrees and he has nothing Sagittarian about him. He is one of the most Cap people I've ever met.

What you say about the 5th house is very interesting. I only read that it is the house of self expression so maybe this is why he comes across so emotional ?
My sister told me that it was encouraged in his family to show their feelings when he and his brother were growing up, there was no shame attached to it (like it was in ours when we were growing up) so all this emotional expression sometimes can be a bit too much for someone like me who has had a very different upbringing regarding the expression of feelings.

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So you're saying based on a couple examples that cusping doesn't exist?

Cusping doesn't just exist as far as Signs, and every other level of astrology, but in the entire larger reality. Everything is literally part of everything else, interconnected and blending/merging into everything else.

There are no true "barriers" and separations.

Astrology is a symbolic reflection of life and human consciousness, and of course partakes in that as well. The Zodiac is much like the color wheel.

I'm a Capricorn Sun and Mercury--no cusping. I'm probably the least sterotypically Capricorn person you'll ever meet. I don't care about money, I don't care about status or what others think of me, I eat mostly vegan, I live a purposefully materially humble and simple life, I am in an open relationship, I've had many psychic and spiritual experiences, I tear up at the drop of a hat at others pain or something very touching, I lived at an intentional community, etc, etc.

Point being, I don't even know what you mean by "the most Cap person I've ever met", because I don't think Signs are put into their proper perspective to begin with. I really think that a lot of people are missing some very key fundamentals of astrology.

Also, people do not interpret charts holistically enough.

It's easy to see placement by placement and aspect by aspect, but it's truly an art to combine ALL this information into a cohesive, balanced whole.

You asked why he was emotional and I pointed out a lot of what I saw, from a holistically logical and sound astrological base.

As to correct charts--that's a whole different subject, and I suggest that if you are interested in it, dig into the Edgar Cayce readings, because it's one of the only sources that talks about same. Most people into astrology, I find, don't like and won't even consider it because it makes astrological stuff far more uncertain.

However, I was open to what his guidance talked about because my rather psychic Mom, saw my Soul, as a light, enter into the babies body sometime after it was born. She told me this before I read about the potential difference between the physical and spiritual birth times in the Cayce readings. Cayce's guidance talked about this a number of times, so it wasn't some sort of psychic gaffe or fluke on his or his guidance's part.

posted December 18, 2019 03:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Regarding Mars and Neptune, his ruling Planet, Venus is also trine both, which also emphasizes these even more.

Then consider the nature of Libra, his Ascendant. Libra is the least cerebral and the most heart oriented of the Air Signs via it's Venus rulership/connection.

While it's a masculine/yang Sign, it is the first of the Signs of the Zodiac to be more of a combo/balance of both Yin and Yang. This is to say, that it's not uncommon for those with strong Libra placements, to have a definite feeling nature, though not anywhere near as intense as say Leo or Scorpio. But Libra is being known as being somewhat sensitive.

Which is why it can and often does correlate with the arts and/or music, because you need some deeper sensitivity and a feeling nature to excel in these. But these two also have their left brain/intellectual/anaylstical/step by step logical aspects too, and Libra is balanced, or seeks balance, between these.

But the combo of Leo-Cancer, Pisces, Mars, Neptune, amplified Moon, etc shading in, altogether weights to a more emotional type nature.

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I agree about Libra not being unemotional. I know some other Libra risings who are not unsimilar to him actually.

I don't agree with planets being in the early or very late degrees of a sign taking on the energy of the previous of next sign though. I don't really see it with other people who are born on cusps or have planets on cusps.

posted December 18, 2019 03:28 PM            

"Point being, I don't even know what you mean by "the most Cap person I've ever met", because I don't think Signs are put into their proper perspective to begin with. I really think that a lot of people are missing some very key fundamentals of astrology."

What I mean he is very much like a stereotypical Cap (when you read definitions of typical Cap traits), not that I think that all Caps are like that.

posted December 18, 2019 03:30 PM            

There is no way to prove or disprove it objectively (especially since so much in astrology is super subjective, especially at some places more than others) unfortunately. Astrology studies based on signs have been notoriously unfruitful and non conclusive in general, let alone addressing something as subtle and blending as cusping.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

posted December 18, 2019 03:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
I've observed cusping in actual practice many times. Besides my own 26 years of paying attention to astrology, there is the most vast and verified psychic source in the world, that also talks about the reality of cusping.

There is no way to prove or disprove it objectively (especially since so much in astrology is super subjective, especially at some places more than others) unfortunately. Astrology studies based on signs have been notoriously unfruitful and non conclusive in general, let alone addressing something as subtle and blending as cusping.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

(But, in case any others are interested, cusping is most noticed with the Sun, Rising, and Moon the most).

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posted December 18, 2019 03:43 PM            

See my example on the other thread about a friend who is a Leo Sun, Cancer Ascendant, and Libra Moon conjunct Libra Venus, who is not strongly emotional, but is pretty intellectually attuned, and how he has Cancer Mercury conjunct the Ascendant, and how that very powerful Mercury changes the whole attunement of the chart.

posted December 18, 2019 03:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
You're welcome.

See my example on the other thread about a friend who is a Leo Sun, Cancer Ascendant, and Libra Moon conjunct Libra Venus, who is not strongly emotional, but is pretty intellectually attuned, and how he has Cancer Mercury conjunct the Ascendant, and how that very powerful Mercury changes the whole attunement of the chart.

If he didn't have Mercury conjunct his Ascendant,, but still had all those other placements--likely he would be much more emotionally attuned than he is.

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posted December 19, 2019 05:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
This is the chart of my brother in law. I was a bit surprised when I created his natal because I was expecting to see more water as he is one of the most sensitive and emotonal people I know. He has no trouble crying when he feels touched (which happens quite often) and he is much more sensitive than my sister (his wife) who is a Cancer sun and Pisces moon. Where does his sensitivity come from?

https://imgur.com/SmfDjz5

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I am looking at Neptune conjunct Ic from the 3rd house.Neptune also squares the Ac.

Mars in the 4th can make the emotional nature quite tender and hypersensitive. The native moves between passion and vulnerability at a whim. The emotions are always on the surface-this especially when Mars is also square the Asc.

posted December 19, 2019 07:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I am looking at Neptune conjunct Ic from the 3rd house.Neptune also squares the Ac.

Mars in the 4th can make the emotional nature quite tender and hypersensitive. The native moves between passion and vulnerability at a whim. The emotions are always on the surface-this especially when Mars is also square the Asc.

I would say the combo of Neptune and Mars on the Asc/Ic is the cause.

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posted December 19, 2019 07:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
Thank you very much Aries.
Would Mars square Asc not make the native rather angry?

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The response of most Mars square Asc is anger.Its like a open wound (Mars) being irritated (square).

But the essence of the open wound is hyper-sensitivity.And so some tend to respond by personalising things outside of them as if they are happening to them or directed to them.

I am one prime example of this-with Mars/Asc opposite. My immediate response to most things is emotion. Not necessarily always anger. But passion.And to many it can appear as "anger".

To understand what I really mean about this,just watch these MMA reality shows where these buff guys go on anger tantrums that have deep seated hurt therein.

No sooner have they started to fight each other, they start to cry.And because people see crying as "weakness", Mars emotions are often redirected to two avenues-sexual provocation or anger. Many times both at the same time .

posted December 19, 2019 04:42 PM            

There is a wide trine by Moon to Pluto for starters. Also, Moon in houses of life (like 5th) can be more expressive, regardless of sign or aspects.

If the Asc is accurate then it squares Neptune (and possibly parallels the IC). That may be as strong a factor here as any. Asc/rising sign plays into it too, and Neptune square Asc in Libra is a bit like it being square Venus.

But hidden within this chart is that the (Solar) loka planet is the Moon. That indicates focus of development of the lunar energy leading up to incarnation.

posted December 20, 2019 08:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
We look to the Moon and especially to Neptune for these qualities (as well as to water signs).

There is a wide trine by Moon to Pluto for starters. Also, Moon in houses of life (like 5th) can be more expressive, regardless of sign or aspects.

If the Asc is accurate then it squares Neptune (and possibly parallels the IC). That may be as strong a factor here as any. Asc/rising sign plays into it too, and Neptune square Asc in Libra is a bit like it being square Venus.

But hidden within this chart is that the (Solar) loka planet is the Moon. That indicates focus of development of the lunar energy leading up to incarnation.

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Hi Kannon,

is there a calculator for loka planets?

posted December 23, 2019 07:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
We look to the Moon and especially to Neptune for these qualities (as well as to water signs).

There is a wide trine by Moon to Pluto for starters. Also, Moon in houses of life (like 5th) can be more expressive, regardless of sign or aspects.

If the Asc is accurate then it squares Neptune (and possibly parallels the IC). That may be as strong a factor here as any. Asc/rising sign plays into it too, and Neptune square Asc in Libra is a bit like it being square Venus.

But hidden within this chart is that the (Solar) loka planet is the Moon. That indicates focus of development of the lunar energy leading up to incarnation.

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This is less pertinent to the thread in general, but more specifically to the article linked in the above.

Involved and complicated, arcane/esoteric astro theories shouldn't replace common sense and observation in my view.

The example of Edward Snowden is a good example of that reaching.

Clearly in his western chart, Mercury by far is his strongest Planet if the chart is accurate. It is closely conjunct the Ascendant and in it's own Sign.

This shows a predominant Mercurial attunement. But there are some other, more idealistic patterns that underline that. Clearly Snowden in actual practice is quite Mercurial. He is a very info, data, intellect attuned type person. The facts mam, and just the facts. He also didn't get into such a profession or escape immediate detaining by "authorities" by being dim witted--he's mentally sharp.

Clearly his Soul entered into this dimension from the dimension that Mercury symbolizes and correlates with in a Jungian, syncrhonicity like way. This dimension is primarily that of what some call the "akashic library" and what the Monroe Institute calls the consciousness level of F-15, the state of "no time" or "all time", as related to earthly events.

Souls spend time here for various different reasons-- mainly for gaining a mental understanding of different subjects, different processes, different facets of history in general or their own Soul/Spirit history. Individuals interested in invention and the like also focus here. But the point being is that a lot of mental analysis and information processing goes on here.

Interestingly, the color yellow in relation to the aura and to Mercury is one of the most neutral and wide ranging colors there are, as to specific tones, and how it can go from indicating fairly slow vibratory to fairly fast vibratory patterns. A real chameleon like and multifaceted type expression.

Kind of summed up in: there is nothing more potentially selfish and destructive than an intellect divorced from the heart, and yet nothing more helpful than an intellect used in service of the heart. And that's the function and mutability of Mercury summed up in a nutshell.

Stephen Arroyo spoke rather logically of the importance of Planets near the Ascendant in giving an example of the Moon, and how the Moon often looks far bigger when on the horizon. It's like a metaphor for how a Planet gets amplified when it's near the Ascendant.

It's the metaphorical meeting place between the Heavens and the Earth. Hence, it's pretty logical to connect this positioning to correpond often to Cayce's concept of Soul flight, which is supported in his own case. Cayce's own readings about himself, talk about him being a predominant Uranian. He has Uranus near his Ascendant, and clearly had a Leo Rising with Uranus conjunct same from considering many different factors--his intense and extremist romantic side (he came close to cheating on his fiance and later wife a number of times), his rather long back and unusual height for the time, his hyper psychic sensitivity (apparently most stimulated by a childhood fall onto a board with a large nail sticking of same, which deeply pierced his forehead, and he had ancestral psychism strong in his family history).

Indeed, in my own practice and observation, I've noted time and time again, that often, it's the Planet which is closest to the Ascendant (and barring nothing even close to same, near the MC), which most often represents the nonphysical dimension that a Soul phased directly from into the Earth/3rd from.

Note, no need from switching from this to that system and back, and conforms to principals that otherwise correspond with some of the oldest and most agreed upon observations in astrology from many different systems (that Planets nearest the ASC and/or the MC tend to be the most highlighted).