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Author
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Topic: Is Seduction Ethical?
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trillian
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 28, 2004 03:59 PM
  
Thanks Eleanore! Well, I go back to something similar to what I said before: You can't seduce the willing.  (provided the willing are adults, of course, and not completely impaired) Wych's point is interesting, though...dressing sexily is often at the very least a prelude to a seduction...sometimes it's a seductive tease that we have no intention of following through with... IP: Logged |
lioneye68
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 05:27 PM
Eek...that slippery slope again...ok, treading carefully here.
Some men WANT you to seduce them, overpower them, agressively tantilizing them until there IS no resisting...Then, everything that happens once that point of no return is reached...well, they can't be blamed for it, now can they? And if they want to slip away from the union afterwards, you cannot put the guilt on them, because YOU wanted it. They were simply hit by a sexual Mack Truck... Other men are starkly threatened by that, or simply offended by the role reversal. "HEY! Who's the man here, anyway?", said with macho indignation... As with so many other things, it depends on the people. Some are very good at inticing a seduction, then saying "But YOU wanted it, I was the victom here. It was a mistake YOU forced me to make" If all you want is to jump his bones, then have at 'er...just don't expect it to mean that he's yours, and you're his from that moment forward. But, I'm pretty sure you're not that niave anyway. It's just that it could get messy, with there being a SO in the picture and all. And, it's also possible that he could decline the offer and hurt your feelings. (although not likely)
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sthenri
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 05:49 PM
Yep, not likely, for some reason I know by now what type of man would reject me and which wouldn't. The ones that are married obviously are off limits. And the ones who are feeling sorry for themselves and don't want to remember, and the ones that hate me but just want to feel me.Unconciously I have weeded all these men out by trial and error, it wasn't easy. And I find that I seduce a lot of people just by mistake, I tend to wear sexy clothes a lot given to me by my ex. He bought the entire Victoria's Secret Catalog I think. I wasn't allowed to buy one thing by myself. So I look like a walking seduction sometimes, I can't ignore that. But a girl needs clothes! Oh well, Geminis are like the spark of life, we all need one in our life, I will just say hands off to myself, him I don't know, it's up to trust and how fast I can move. Natasha
Taurus IP: Logged |
Carlo
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 05:57 PM
haha Wych  Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega. ~ Brodie Bruce, Mallrats What do you expect though, I mean really...Lara Croft always does what you make her do...and when she doesn't, you shut her off and she doesn't squawk...she's ready with her guns, tight shorts, and her ponytail all intact the next time you snap her on. Thus, God made man
Man made Playstation
Playstation made Lara
An exquisite creation!  Love,
Carlo IP: Logged |
WychOfAvalon
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 05:57 PM
To me the "omg he/she seduced me I'm such a victim" tactic is about as valid as "It's McDonald's fault I'm fat even though I eat there twice a day and don't exercise."It's another victim mentality (UNLESS, of course, drugs and/or alcohol are involved). Sure someone can be enticing, spicy, delicious, with special sauce... but in the end it takes two to play. Honestly... seduction, flirting and teasing can be GREAT fun between two adults. IP: Logged |
PlayfulPonderingFishMoon
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 06:51 PM
Lol, I didn't really mean that sexy clothes was something that I wouldn't use to distract my S.O. away from something that I wanted his attention to be distracted away from for a brief while, IF he was already designated as my official S.O by that time, you know.I am just not one for beginning a whole entire relationship based on quote unquote 'seduction' methods though, because to me personally, sex is a really big step, and I certainly just want things to be 'on the up and up' between us BEFORE things get to be 'on the up and up' between us later on, lol, hehehe. I mean, I would say to the guy ahead of time, "Well, quite honestly, I want to.... tonight. I will wear some sexy stuff and bring some wine to help us relax into it, but yes, have fair warning right now, that I really do hope that things will lead right to the bedroom for us by the end of the night." Lol, it must be that Mars In Sag for me, I guess, lol. I mean, I just don't want to look back on it and feel that I and my assorted accessories just caught him in a weak moment that way, that's all, because if this is supposedly leading to something more significant for us past just this one night, then I think it's best to start all of what comes for us afterwards out on 'the right foot,' so to speak. ------------------
"Somewhere once I had read a description of eternity. 'If there were a mile high mountain of granite, and once every ten thousand years, a bird flew past and brushed it with a feather, by the time that mountain was worn away, only a fraction of a second would have passed in the context of eternity.'" IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 28, 2004 07:46 PM
You know, here's something I've wondered about before. The clothes issue. When I was in highschool there was a ban on all sorts of things that only girls would wear but no specific bans on things only boys would wear (typically). For example, tank tops (especially spaghetti), anything remotely low-cut, no mid-section could ever be exposed, along with the too short rule; ie, if with your hands by your sides your skirt or shorts was shorter than your fingertips it was not allowed. The other things in the dress code were applicable to all, like offensive messages or pictures, or stuff that mentioned drugs or alcohol, etc.I always wondered why girls couldn't wear something just because it was "provocative". By who's standards? Men's? I know, I know ... a time and a place for everything. I'm not saying a girl or a boy should wear a swimsuit to school, or a dance uniform, or whatever. The boys could still walk around with their pants half way down their booty's with their boxers exposed wearing those "A-shirts" (the Hanes tank tops that men wear as undershirts). Why is that ok? Perhaps because it is not at all provocative to a female?  But really, I can't wear something because some guy is not going to be able to pay attention in class because he's too obsessed thinking about sex? That's ridiculous.
I could be just as "provocative" in a mechanic's suit if I cared to be so. Sexiness and eroticism comes from the inside out, not the other way around. Perfumes are also arguably provocative but no one is banning those ... and there were certainly a good number of boys practically showering with their colognes to make me wish they were restricted ... not because I found them alluring but because the smell was overwhelming and gave me a headache. Certainly, no one should walk around school in their underwear or with their genitals, breasts, or buttocks exposed and that's obvious. Yes, there will always be girls that will try to flirt and dress sexy. But those same girls will still flirt and act sexy no matter if they're made to wear a monk's robe if they really feel like it. I just think it's wrong that women can't wear certain things simply because men find it to be a distraction. Women usually look at women dressed sexily and make a comment about the clothes or the woman's character, but they certainly aren't sitting there (usually) drooling over the other woman without being able to study or work. Woman will usually also not be "distracted" by the average man walking around in short shorts or a tank top unless it's to laugh ... like at Richard Simmons. If a man sees a woman as primarily a sexual creature and can't contain himself if he sees a little skin here and there then that's his problem, not hers.
My opinions anyway, please share yours.
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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi IP: Logged |
pixelpixie
Newflake Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 28, 2004 07:56 PM
I certainly agree with you, Eleanore!  IP: Logged |
PlayfulPonderingFishMoon
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 08:08 PM
I see what you are saying, Eleanore!I agree with you, in terms of the boy vs. girl issue with schools, that yes, the guys should have the exact same restrictions as the girls have, no doubt about all of that in my own mind either. I think you made some excellent points!
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"Somewhere once I had read a description of eternity. 'If there were a mile high mountain of granite, and once every ten thousand years, a bird flew past and brushed it with a feather, by the time that mountain was worn away, only a fraction of a second would have passed in the context of eternity.'" IP: Logged |
lioneye68
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 08:19 PM
Just be glad we don't have to wear burkahs (sp?). You know, the frocks that women in mid-east cultures have to wear? Not even their eyes are to be exposed, such a dangerous, powerful temptress a woman is capeable of being...if you accidently look at her, that is.  The onus has always been on the females to excersize restraint, because history has shown us that men aren't so good at it. It's the nature of the beast. Believe me...I'm already planning on taking that one up with the One (*edited to a non-gender specific term) when I meet himher someday. Sometimes I wonder if maybe men enjoy sex 10 times more than women do, and that's why they find it sooo hard to resist their urges. I wonder about....far too much stuff. IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 28, 2004 08:53 PM
Exactly lioneye. Think about it. Women are restricted in what they wear, for the same reasons, in many parts of the world. What does that say? At least it isn't just an American male thing.
But seriously, I can understand that things aren't as bad here as other places. That can be said about anything else at all, whether it's health, economic status, etc.
That doesn't mean progress can't still be made here. Less than 100 years ago women achieved the right to vote in this country. That's certainly a step forward, of course. Why did they have to fight? Because of a male-dominated opinion about them. Women fought to have careers. Why? A male-dominated opinion. Women fought to make equal money in the same field. Why? Male-dominated opinions. There still are many more barriers to break down and just because we're better off than a lot of other women in the world doesn't mean we have to stop fighting against age-old stereo-types or opinions that restrict our freedoms with no real relevancy other than our sex. It may seem like a silly thing to want to be allowed to do ... wear clothes that you choose to wear ... but if it's so silly then just give up and let us choose based on what we're comfortable wearing not what someone else is uncomfortable with us wearing.
It's the same kind of view that some women have to deal with when they've been raped. "What were you wearing?" "Were you dressed provocatively?" Who cares if I was running around naked? Does that give a man the right to attack me and rape me? Does nudity invite a sexual attack? We're born naked ... it's our natural state of being ... so I don't see how that flies. *Not all men are perverts with their minds in the gutter and not all men only think about sex all day or can't control themselves at the site of some cleavage. It's as much of an insult to that kind of man to think that he can't control himself over seeing some skin as it is restricting to women to not be able to wear what they choose because of that same assumption.
*Actually, to clarify, I don't know too many men who are perverted myself, nor do I know too many men who can't control themselves when a woman in a short skirt walks by. It's a big stereotype against men to think they're all like this, I think.
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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi IP: Logged |
trillian
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 28, 2004 08:54 PM
Eleanore, I'll go a step further and ask, why are a woman's breasts obscene?Why are men allowed to be topless, while a woman would be arrested for being so? Absolutely absurd.
But frankly, I don't understand how anyone can consider a nake body to be obscene.
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sthenri
unregistered
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posted April 28, 2004 09:46 PM
We are talking about men right? Real life men? I hate to break the news, but in a chemistry class where I was the ONLY woman, every geeky science guy in the class at 22 or 23 was hyperventilating if anyone showed skin, or wore a bright colour, or had breast formation. Even walking by the door!(It's the same when they are 40) I was once kicked out of a class for wearing a purple turtleneck as it was too provocative and distrubing to the "real students" as my pig professor put it. I didn't have any choice, I went home and changed as I would be giving into his impulse to bait me. A lady never loses her cool, even in a purple turtleneck when she is a moon in Cancer. and you know what that means Breasts! Big Bouncy Breasts! Yep here they come, get used to them. After that I made a big joke of it how no one could take their eyes of me. Everyone laughed but I had to make a big effort to make all the men feel comfortable. It's not up to each individual when they are already in their comfort zone, it's up to the woman to educate. There are a lot of piggy professors out there in their eighties and they are not retiring anytime soon, we have to find a way.. I found that out the hard way, and my dreams of being treated as an equal did not come true. I did get lots of other stuff in this life though, and I'm still proud of myself. I have to say being taken seriously and having any breasts at all in this society is tough. That's why my sister dyes her hair to hide that it's blonde. It's either wear fake glasses, OR
Do the laugh track routine. Oh did I mention this Gemini is very wealthy?
What a slippery slope:>
What do you think the Universe/God/Fate is trying to tell me right now? NO, I will not throw away my sexy clothes, I will not sacrifice my savings for principles. Besides I have no confidence in baggy outfits. Natasha
Taurus IP: Logged |
pixelpixie
Newflake Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 28, 2004 10:23 PM
In Ontario, women can legally go topless... though it isn't done much. But we can.
I don't know about elsewhere in Canada, though..
Lioneye? How about where you are?IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 28, 2004 10:46 PM
trillian
Actually, I never meant to imply that breasts were obscene, nor any other part of a woman's or a man's anatomy. I just didn't want to throw out such an apparantly revolutionary concept as being naked ... you know, natural ... all the time, seeing as how clothes, for whatever reason, are designed to cover so much. I think as great a concept as nudity might be, I'm not sure if everyone's ready for such a big step in light of dress codes as they currently stand. Besides, some people still consider the statue of David obscene. 
I don't agree with nudity as obscene, but I'm certainly not going to ask to expose a whole lot of people to something they find offensive. Asking for less stringent rules about clothes is a baby step in the right direction. Nevertheless, clothes still have purpose as far as cold climates and such.
Really, it isn't that I necessarily want all the people of the world to throw off their clothes in unison and chant to the God/dess while giving thanks for their lives. (Though perhaps not a bad idea either. )
I just would like to see less of a stigma about women and sexuality, and also the naked body. Nude does not equal sex. Showing a little skin also does not equal sex.
In a lot of ways, it's the guilt and "naughtiness" associated with nudity that leads to sexual marketing campaigns, etc. It's a completely base understanding of our bodies. Sure, they are great for *sex as well, but that isn't their only purpose. They are our temples, and they should be thought of as pure and beautiful, at least in my opinion anyway.*Also great, btw.
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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi
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PlayfulPonderingFishMoon
unregistered
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posted April 29, 2004 12:51 AM
Incidentally, it isn't because some women feel their bodies are obscene that they choose to keep them more covered than other women do. It's really quite the opposite feeling they have about their bodies which keeps them from shedding their clothes. I like the way that one woman phrased it on an Internet message board awhile back when she said that.... "To me, my naked body is something which is so great that it is meant to be shared only with someone whom I have special feelings for, and not something that is supposed to be used as a tool for people to look at while they touch themselves
as they look at it in a magazine or over the Internet."
Obviously, she was discussing actual nude centerfolds right then, and not mere clothing that women can wear which only suggests some nudity instead.
I know that I seem to be more conservative where sexual etc.... issues are concerned than at least some of you are, but I still just thought that I'd throw that idea out there anyway, since it's kind of contrary to the way that some people conceive of other people being when those other people are not so into exposing themselves to the public in that sort of way. Some people just assume that people who don't walk around naked don't do so because they might feel that their naked bodies are too 'evil' of a sight for them to share with the general public, but actually.... some people just feel that their bodies are really too 'good' of a thing to warrant simply showing them off without a special reason for doing it, you know.
It's similiar to the way that some people save sex for only their spouse etc.... because they feel that that act is such a sacred thing, and not something that they wish to waste by having it with just anyone.
But a lot of people would think that they were holding back on it because they feel that sex is an 'evil' or 'dirty' thing, which is absolutely not the true case for them at all. They merely feel that it is a sacred thing which is only meant to be shared with the person that they feel they will be with for the rest of their lives, that's all. They don't think it's 'bad' or something like that in the least at all. They have quite the opposite sentiment about all of it instead. ------------------
"Somewhere once I had read a description of eternity. 'If there were a mile high mountain of granite, and once every ten thousand years, a bird flew past and brushed it with a feather, by the time that mountain was worn away, only a fraction of a second would have passed in the context of eternity.'" IP: Logged |
WychOfAvalon
unregistered
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posted April 29, 2004 03:44 AM
Carlo ~
sorry didn't see your post before Truthfully, I don't have to pry my husband away from the video games because he's a 17 year old trapped in a 35 year old body. He's a horny pervert. Sometimes Playstation saves me. LOL
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Carlo
unregistered
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posted April 29, 2004 09:06 AM
lol...guys feel the same way, about being saved by the Playstation and all...it's quite a decent and inexpensive relationship aid Give me a new Tombraider CD over watching a Lifetime movie with the missus any day I've been playing it since '95, yep, me and Lara are going on ten years...sniff...it's just so wonderful...haha, just to think, a guy's relationship with a video game character can outlast one with a real chick...how truly sublime...or is it?  Here's my baby at the beach...ain't she a looker! IP: Logged |
pixelpixie
Newflake Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2004 09:21 AM
For mindless bashing fun, "Fight Night 2004" is great. (Boxing) You can customize the characters to look like you. My husband played it so long on the weekend, he had blisters.(On callouses)
Just a suggestion.IP: Logged |
Carlo
unregistered
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posted April 29, 2004 09:23 AM
Sirius, blisters?? Cool...how bad were they, and what do you do in the game?IP: Logged |
pixelpixie
Newflake Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2004 09:27 AM
Oh, it's only for dysfunctional people, you wouldn't be interested. It's a boxing game.. very realistic. You customize details as tiny as nose width/height/breadth, jawline, every detail about your face and body, so the perspective is unique to you... complete with your name and title....and box. Be sure to take your vitamins.. even hook yourself up to an IV, it'll be a long, couch filled day. *Sorry, don't want to take over seduction with gaming* IP: Logged |
Carlo
unregistered
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posted April 29, 2004 09:42 AM
Gaming is seduction and dysfunction, it's all good Or maybe that would be dyseduction??Ode #67 to Lara Croft Honey, I'm home! Mmmm... Guess what I got at the store?! Mmmm...? You'll never guess...c'mon take one guess... Grrr..MMMMM... Wrong! I'll give you one more guess! mmm... Nope...one more guess! (And then I shot her.
Or my babygirl did...
Least we always pretend) IP: Logged |
trillian
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2004 09:45 AM
Eleanore, I know that's not what you meant.  The economy is shaky, we're at war...and Janet Jackson's lovely nipple has people horrified. That was pretty much my point. Love to the lovelies. IP: Logged |
PlayfulPonderingFishMoon
unregistered
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posted April 29, 2004 11:52 AM
It wasn't the fact that Janet exposed her nipple in and of itself that had people ticked off about her doing it.Instead, it was really because she did it at The Super Bowl, of all places. You know, all of that exposure is well and fine if it's done over the PlayBoy Channel or something, but.... when you hear the stories about how grandparents were watching that event with their grandkids and had to handle the whole Q&A about it with the kids afterwards, I can certainly see why people were ticked off about her exposure of herself right then. That's just not what you plan to see when you watch halftime at the Super Bowl with your children at all, and, due to the rather overt sexual lyrics and movements which accompanied them during their concert, I personally found the whole halftime show to be done in poor taste, just as many other viewers found it to be done that day. Janet's nipple was only the icing on the cake anyway. I always come across as sounding so conservative in these discussions, but I can't help it though. I believe in fostering discussions about sex with your children, but that doesn't mean that I really want to have to have a discussion about things with them during the Super Bowl halftime show though. ------------------
"Somewhere once I had read a description of eternity. 'If there were a mile high mountain of granite, and once every ten thousand years, a bird flew past and brushed it with a feather, by the time that mountain was worn away, only a fraction of a second would have passed in the context of eternity.'" IP: Logged |
pixelpixie
Newflake Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2004 12:18 PM
If there was more natural exposure to nudity, it wouldn't be as shocking. I don't find all the grandparents watching it with their grandkids, and having to explain it, to be such a big deal. It is all the brou-ha-ha ( did I just use that term?)surrounding it. All they have to say is...
"Oh.. she exposed her breast." or "She has a decoration on her nipple." The kids would go "Ewww!" and they'd move on. It is a half time show... a 'show'. They wouldn't have explicit lyrics or movements if they didn't sell records. Majority ruled, in this case.I'd be more concerned if little Suzy or Ken saw a nasty tackle, and a leg bent the wrong way at the wrong time, as happens alot. You'd have to explain that..
"Oh, that's a tibia cracking in two places and needing traction and physiotherapy to fix. He'll walk again, but he'll never be the same"
That is a risk they take upon themselves in the sports field.
The *ahem* exposure to suggestive lyrics is something you are aware of before you allow your children to watch the half-time show. So be prepared to field questions.. Titillating or not. IP: Logged | |
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