posted April 30, 2004 09:15 AM            

But I can't help thinking that our current attitude towards breasts, or more accurately, nipples, is what continues to keep women objectified.

We see breasts all the time, albeit with their nipples barely covered, on TV, in magazines, etc.

Now, if at the Superbowl, Brad Pitt had taken the stage and done a little striptease to expose his nipples, the cat calls and applause would have been deafening.

But Janet's nipples, perhaps accidentally, was exposed briefly, and everyone is aghast.

What I don't understand is why we allow ourselves to believe that men's nipples are ok, and women's are somehow not.

These are rhetorical questions, no answers necessary, because no adequate answer seems to exist.

Natasha, I'm sorry you were treated so horribly by American salespeople. But it's not exclusive to foriegners...once I went shopping for a car, accompanied by my brother-in-law only because he too was looking. The salesman refused to talk to me or look me in the eye, directing all of his comments to the male. I left. And that's not the only time I've been treated rudely by car salesman.

But I have three Aries planets, including Merc. I usually talk back. Big time.

posted April 30, 2004 03:48 PM              

The key to this game is to have a "safty word." It's a code word that means NO. "Red" is the most popular safty word because red means stop.

posted April 30, 2004 06:14 PM            

I was very ignorant to think that only a man could be God. But why wouldn’t I think that after all that is what we woman have always been taught. In all the religions, who is God? A man of course! - Well teaching the word of God couldn’t come from a woman because too- man- is the representative of God. Isn’t he?? Oh! And what about those Gurus - men too aren’t they? Priests, Rabbis ,etc. Well, where do we woman fit in the scheme of things? Are we to be forever subservient to God and man? I think that was the plan. But wait a minute. Who made that plan God or man?

Well let’s see as far as I know God created man in his image. What image was that? Human? Spirit? What? I say that because if God was in the beginning, where and when nothing else existed, then what represents God’s image? Is it human form? Is it man not woman? What was his image anyway?

I was brought up in the Catholic Religion in an area that was also mostly of Jewish Religion. In both religions men were the go between you and God. The priests for example were God’s emissaries, nuns were their helpers. The priests where nearer to God than the nuns. You spoke to the priest and the priest in turn spoke to God on your behalf. One couldn’t possibly go direct. Only to pray of course. After all, the priests knew better than you since they studied the Bible, the so called word of God or should I say the ONLY word of God. Since we haven’t heard from God in awhile, I wonder what he has to say now? The only thing everyone else had to think about was making sure you went to Church on Sunday, followed the rituals and went to confession to confess your sins. The 10 Commandments written in the Bible were the moral rules to adhere to and if you didn’t, well you sinned against God. There were also sins if you didn’t follow some, if not all, of the rituals the church dreamed up for you.

In my early years, woman couldn’t enter church to participate in a mass unless she wore a hat to cover her head, lest her beautiful hair be exposed to entice man or man priest causing them to sin or have sinful thoughts I suppose, as if that would stop it. Woman also could not bare their shoulders and had to wear short sleeves or long sleeves. Even the poor nuns had to wear black robes, shave their hair and wear ritual head pieces. The nuns were subservient to the priests. There was even a time when woman couldn’t receive communion. They were not considered good enough to receive the "sacrament" represented by a wafer.

What a state of affairs. As far as I know of the Jewish Religion, women were not Rabbi’s and were not allowed to study the Hebrew texts (remember the movie Yentle, starring Barbra Streisand?). If fact, in the old testaments, if you read them, God was particularly partial to men. Only men were allowed to wear the special robes of God and walk with the Ark of the Covenant. Women were severely punished for the slightest of discretions. Their skin was burned off and they were forced to eat excrement when they didn’t follow the laws of God or their men. What kind of God does that? Where does mercy come in? What about the 10 commandments? All these questions? Who is there to answer them? The men seemed to have all the power, all the advantages. They wield an enormous amount of power over women. The men had harems and did basically anything they wished to do. The women were always less even considered soulless, if you will.

Even today in various countries woman are treated as little more than dogs. Women are not allowed even to show the slightest amount of skin lest they tempt man. Someone has to be blamed for the men’s sins, they don’t want to suffer for their own thoughts and deeds. They may never get to heaven. The women’s private parts mutilated, as in Afkanistan, so as not even to have the pleasure that the man keeps for himself. It seems that in China there has been an edict whereby citizens may only have one child and that the citizens are asked to abort fetuses, especially if the fetus is a girl and be sterilized afterwards. Taken from the London Sunday Telegraph is the following:

"In addition, girls in China, like girls in much of the developing world, receive far less attention and resources than boys. As a result the sex ratio of infant deaths in China averaged 114 over the 1980s (Tien et al 1996, p.16-7)."

"This low ratio suggest that girls receive less care and attention than boys in many Chinese homes, reducing the chance of survival of girls beyond their first birthday. Most importantly, this gender discrimination affects girls most adversely in the poorest areas (Tien, et al 1996, pp.16-17)."

"ABORTIONS and female infanticide have become so common in China that it will soon have a huge number of men unable to find wives, an official magazine has predicted."

What a travesty of human rights against woman but the biggest travesty of human rights I see against women has been the separation of women from God which has been perpetrated upon them for eons.

No matter what the differences are between humans, all men were created equal. I think that should have been changed to all men and women or all humans are created equal. Leaving the specific word women out of the equation continues to keep them separated and less than men as if God only created men equally, then women were created but not equal to men. Case is point. While reading The Complete Bill of Rights, The Drafts, Debates, Sources, & Origins, Edited by Neil H. Cogan, on page 349, 10.1.3.1 Connecticut ,10.1.3.1.b Declaration of Rights, 1776 it states

" [2] And be it further Enacted and Declared, by the Authority aforesaid, That no Man’s Life shall be taken away: No Man’s Honor or good Name shall be stained: No Man’s Person shall be arrested, restrained, banished, dismembered, nor any ways punished: No Man shall be deprived of his Wife or Children: No Mans’ Goods or Estate shall be taken away from him, nor any ways indamaged under the colour of Law, or countenance of Authority; unless clearly warranted by the laws of this State." (Emphasis added)

If one looks at that it seems to cover every aspect of ones possessions, Name Honor Goods, Estates, Wife, etc. Wife being the relevant word here because that would lead one to believe that this only applied to men and not woman otherwise it may have said, no man or woman and they would have left the word wife out, or simply said husband, wife or children. To me the above denotes the thinking at the time and still in today’s world. Lucky for woman the words, every person, or subject or citizen, inhabitant etc. were also used that did include woman in that case. And even in that, women were not given the right to vote until the 1900's. Weren’t we all supposed to be equal under the laws of God and men? Didn’t we, as women have the same rights as men from the beginning? What would we need an Equal Rights Amendment for when under the Constitution of the United States, women already have those rights.

If you look at the human and spiritual qualities of male and female, one of the first things you will notice is the light in their eyes that special sparkle when they are happy and the change when they are sad. Someone said, the eyes are the windows of the soul. Would that then mean that woman have souls too? Well everything else apparently is the same, I mean we each have blood running thru our veins, skin, various organs, beating heart etc. etc. Aside from the differences relating to procreation, where is the difference? If there is no difference, then why do you suppose that, if it is true that God made man in his own image, that wouldn’t apply to women also, if the image were a human body? Perhaps God’s own image wasn’t a human body but etherical in nature and that it is the spirit of God, the breathe of life breathed into human form and if fact, every form.

In the beginning God was, then came everything else. Of what did God create everything else. Night and day, stars, moons, all the cosmos, air, trees, birds, creatures of all sorts. If God was all that was, then out of what was God created. God created everything from itself. All things then, including humans, being a part of God itself. Just like procreation. The egg and the sperm developing and out of the two comes the new born. The newborn has the qualities of both parents. In the same way, everything including humans have the qualities of God. Any separation whatsoever is impossible. Just as it would be impossible to separate qualities of both parents from a newborn. In particular, the male portion entirely or the female portion entirely. Except maybe where cloning is concerned. That’s another issue.

Given the above, one would come to the conclusion that the qualities of God are also inherent in woman and that woman are not separate from God nor is man or any human, we are all Gods as quoted in the infamous Bible in John ???? "Know ye are Gods". Jesus didn’t specify only men were Gods but to a mixed crowd ‘Know ye....’ Women in ancient time were the oracals, ( i.e.Druid Tradition) the Priestesses.

Taken from The Golden Thread, June/July, 2001 magazine referencing The Bloodline of the Holy Grail, by Sir Laurence Gardner, it is said that

"The Grail in its chalice representation is a female symbol called the vasuterus, or womb. However, although the ancient Grail ceremony has been perpetuated in the Christian Eucharist sacrament, women have long been excluded from the priesthood. But this was not the case in Bible times, nor even in the Bible text. Indeed the Gospels themselves explain that Mary Magdalene was a priestess, while her marriage to Jesus is described in specific detail.

................It is really a question of reading what is written rather than listening to what is taught.

To understand the root of the laws and customs which applied in the Gospel era, it is necessary to step back again in time to see how and why those laws were contrived. In doing this (with the aid of firsthand documentary evidence) we can see that so much of what became religious dogma was born out of fear - hence the expression ‘God fearing’. In an attempt to forge a male dominated society from the time of Moses, such important figures as the once venerated wives of Jehovah were forsaken and this led to a loss of the earthly female ethic which caused no end of insurmountable problems for the generations to follow, even down to date."

The womb was considered sacred in those times perhaps because that is where creation begins in bringing forth children. I think that it really is a Godly act, the ability to create another human/s.

Being Gods, we have the capacity to create as God did in the beginning.

If all of this is true then how is it that we have been so misled so as to think that God is a man, in particular one man instead of all humans, including women. Perhaps the foregoing, again taken from The Golden Thread, June/July,2001, page 47 as above stated, had a lot to do with it.

"The Roman Church condemned the red capped priestesses of the Grail Church as being ‘scarlet women’, proclaiming them to be ****** and witches. Even Jesus’s mother Mary was not allowed to wear ecclesiastical colours in authorized artwork. But, in fact, it was the scarlet women who ran the schools and ministries of the original Jesus movement, in the company of those such as Lazarus and Joseph of Arimathea. In contrast, Peter and Paul are on record in the Vatican Constitutions as saying that women should ‘be in silence’ for they are not worthy of the Church!" (Emphasis added).

One of the hardest things I had to overcome in being a free willed and self empowered woman was how could a women be God, God is a man.

In the Ancient School of Wisdom, which I have attended for 17 or so years, I have come to realize that one of the greatest obstacles to creating my own destiny is the belief that only a man is God. Through experience, I realized that that attitude has been in my neuronet, from childhood, in my cellular and genetic memory passed down through the ages. In this school we are taught that God is all things, this includes humans, all humans. That being the case, then it stands to reason that all of us would have the same attributes as God and that includes the art of creation. Creating songs, books, inventions. If one thinks about it, every aspect of our lives are our creations created by our actions or inactions, choice, needs, dreams.

Everything in nature creates. The plants grow and die and grow again. The birds procreate. All breathing living entities procreate someway or another. Is this not creation? With humans though, we have something special, we have thought. With thought comes the ability to purposely create. We do create from our thoughts, which then bring on our emotions together with our inherent character/personality that allows us to make certain choices in our lives. The choices we make are the ones we then experience. We experience the outcome/consequences of those choices we make. We may not always like the experience but we always had a choice.

Isn’t that God like? Women are not excluded from this either. Some women may think that their lives are pretty much destined for them but then that is excluding free will, which we all have. The free will of making choices. Those choices we make can be easy to follow or hard to follow meaning that we may suffer the consequences of a choice which we may feel is too much to overcome. Getting out of tight situations is always hard to overcome but we can and many do. The point is that women too have the capacity to create as a God with the freedom of mind to dream and until we look deep into our souls to see what we really understand God to be, we may not know what is standing in the way of our own evolvement and creative abilities.

There are so many subtle attitudes women have regarding their true nature. These subtle attitudes come from many sources, as mentioned above, genetic, cellular memory, childhood experiences, movies, music, and probably most of all their religious persuasion, etc. All of this is retained in the brain’s neuronet which fires a memory or associative memory whenever we experience something, through our senses, such as, we may smell a particular flower, which would then remind us of an earlier experience. If the experience is a pleasant one then we react with joy. When the memory isn’t pleasant then we react with sadness. In this way, we affect the environment around us. We can make choice as to whether or not to continue to feel a certain way or not. You know that old adage, smile and the whole world smiles with you, cry and you cry alone. Well we do have a choice on whether or not we will experience the smiles of the world or be alone.

The effects of the subtleties and the not so subtleties of women’s place in religion and their place with God is similar to the above example. For instance, there is a place in the brain that stores certain symbols and the meaning of what those symbols represent. Example is, the well known cross. The symbol of Jesus being crucified for our sins. I haven’t figured out yet which sins they were, the ones after I was born or the ones I had before I was born, that were just forgiven with the crucifixion of Jesus. Anyway, what and how we feel about the symbols we see is very subtle indeed since most of the time we are not even aware of seeing them or conscious of how we feel about them. They can cause us to feel guilty about something in particular ie. eating meat on a day of fast. Having sexual thoughts. Not making the sign of the cross while passing a church. Having a great time on Sunday, or Sabbath even though you didn’t attend church that day or synagogue. Subconsciously one might feel guilty about doing that.

If any of this is true and we do indeed have these subtle emotions regarding certain symbols, where did we get them from and how then does it effect our relationship to God and/or our ability to be God and imitate the creative aspect of God? How can one fully realize their potentials of free will and thought and the different outcomes of the various choices made in life based on those same emotions.

Women being ostracized is not new, even in this day and age women continue to be treated less than men and therefore less than God. Woman are still being paid less in wages for the same job. They still, in most cases, work two jobs, that of a mother and home keeper and wage earner. In my observations, in order for women to be accepted into the world of men, they have to act like men. Case in point. The movie G.I. Jane. If anyone saw it, it seems to be about a woman struggling to be treated equal to men. I didn’t see it that way. The way I saw it was that there she was, in a man’s world, trying to accomplish the same thing the men did by going through the same basic training. She was treated very roughly by both the men and the people in charge. Of course they didn’t accept her right away. First she had to show them she was just like them. Rough, tough, could take a beating, could drink down those beers like them, walk like them and talk like them. Sleep in their quarters. Shave her hair like them. Then and only then, did they accept her as one of them. Well why not? She changed her female qualities to be as they were in order to be accepted. Was she really accepted as a female? I don’t think so. Why? Because she wasn’t who she was as a female. Long hair or short because it suited her. Sleeping and living in her own quarters because of her desire for privacy. Refusing to be boisterous in bars and drinking beers simply to be accepted. What was proven there, that women can be equal to men? Women are already equal to men but somewhere, somehow, there is a need to prove it. I don’t think proving it means women need to change themselves and act like men but continue to act like the beautiful people women are with the capacity to create, procreate and recreate.

Well, now you might say, oh! but women are treated fairly now, times have changed. Have they? Look at the sexual revolution. Who has to be thin, young, strong and always ready sexually. Women. Do men have to be thin? Pot bellies are expected in men. How many women with pot bellies get picked up. What about weight? Woman who are overweight do not get the same treatment as woman who are thin.

Just recently, in August, 2001, a Washington tv station, did a report regarding, the body female titled, "The "Body Trap," the second in "The Body Female" series of specials on women’s health." It discussed the issue of dieting in America and why women in particular felt the need to diet. Most stated that they felt unworthy and unwanted if they were overweight. The question I asked myself was, who did we need to feel worthy and wanted for. The answer was quite clear. Men. It was because of men that we dieted and the judgements of other women. The dieting is perpetuated by the fact that it is a 40 billion dollar a year business with only about a 3% success rate. This figure was given by a woman spokesperson involved in the Real Woman Project, in that report. The report also cited that teens diet because they want to have a boyfriend. If they don’t look like what they perceive the boys or men want, then the teens and women develop low self esteem. They see these ads on TV with long legged woman 5'10 in height. They don’t know, however, per that report that, "the average model is 5’11" and 110 pounds – a body weight below the guidelines for malnutrition" Many women have eating disorders and the dieting is starting at around the age of 10 and 12 years. "42% of fourth-grade girls want to be thinner,"and "7 million American girls and women are battling potentially life-threatening eating disorders".

How can women perceive or believe themselves to be Gods when they are so programmed to believe otherwise ie. unworthy, unwanted, sinful and not complete unless there is a man in their life.

Yes, we can say women have come a long way but we are not there yet. Women are still the most prejudiced people in history. Sure there are some who would say they are treated equally by their families but what about in their neighborhood, their town, city, state, country, world. Do we still have to look slim and wear great clothes to feel good about ourselves. Do we still have to look sexy, be sexy, talk sexy and do the things we would rather not do but society says "everybody does" so we should too in order to be first wanted then kept. "I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never, never let you forget you’re a man" syndrome. What’s that???

With all of this, where could God be in us? Somewhere inside of us there is a creative power, intuitiveness and strength that we don’t recognize in ourselves because we have never looked, are discouraged to look or simply programmed to focus elsewhere. If woman were the great Priestesses, Goddesses, Rulers etc. such as Ishtar, Inanna, Nuit, Nefertiti, Mary, mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalane, Cleopatra, Queen Isabelle, Queen Elizabeth I, and many more, the power was there and still is for many woman, then we know it must be still there not only for those women but for all women. What is the difference between us and those great women of history. Is there a difference?

Perhaps if we went deeper into ourselves such as what we are actually made of, we could find the creative powers of God in us after all. Let’s take a quantum leap into quantum mechanics to study the very small of us, the cells, molecules atoms that all things are made up off, including our human bodies men and women alike.

Through the study of quantum mechanics, I found that in order for an atom to coagulate into molecules, then to mass, they have to have an intention and program. Quantum physics says that it is the observer of the atom or particle that determines what the particles become. I say, if that is so, and I think it is, then we are pretty powerful beings aren’t we. Take the example of Schrodingers Cat experiment that indicates that if you put a cat in a box and sometime later look in the box to see if the cat is alive or dead, that you will see the cat alive or dead according to your observation of your expectation. This quite simply means according to quantum theory that the observer creates reality according to their expectation. The experiment mentioned here does not separate men from women but includes both. Science tells us that everything is made up of particles. Everything.

Taken from Doug Craigen at http://www.escape.ca/~dcc/eureka/short/cat.html

"Two very famous scientists who couldn't agree on the answer were Einstein and Schroedinger. One day Schroedinger explained his opinion to Einstein by talking about his cat. He suggested that you put a cat in a box with a bottle of poison, and the bottle will open and kill the cat at some time that you don't know. Then at some later time is the cat dead or alive? Einstein says that it is one or the other, but we can't know which until we open the box. Shroedinger says that it is neither - the cat is a mixture of dead and alive, and only becomes one or the other when we open the box."

Who is it that gives the intention to a particle to become something. The thinker, the observer of the particle with the thoughts intended. Schrodinger won the 1933 Nobel prize in physics.

Women really need to look into the dynamics of the neuronet in the areas of the brain and find out what attitudes have been attained and retained with regards to ourselves, our past, our environment, our culture, family history, associative memories, etc, to find out who we really are in order to allow the God within us to come forward and be who we really are without the limitations of the patterns of old program.

Yes, I am woman, I am a God. As God is becoming, I am becoming and it is proven to me every moment of my life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Louise Oliverio
16416 Bald Hill Road
Yelm, Washington 98597
Ph. 360-894-3218 or 360-895-2009
All rights reserved

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posted April 30, 2004 06:37 PM              

"I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never, never let you forget you’re a man" syndrome. What’s that??

That ad really sucked it's true and brainwashed a lot of women including my sister. I always hated that song anyway.

Who needs to buy the pig when you can get a lttle bacon for free anyway???

(Just a joke)

I agree women with advanced degrees still have trouble figuring out that they are equal to men. They still act as if Men are Gods and give them more respect than they do women, their peers. It's sad to see so many women sucking up to men around them who don't even care. Men are just men, they are boys grown up. I do not think they are Gods and never did.

But then I had a Scorpio mother and Grandmother with Leo ascendants and lots of fire, and they didn't let any man backtalk them unless it was to say Yes Ma'am. Men adore women like that, at least the ones I like. They were pretty tough.

That's why I loved them. I'm so sappy.

posted April 30, 2004 06:42 PM              

On TV, in the movies, there are only sanitized versions of real men. It's been that way since the start of media in the USA. Real men were cowboys who never looked at women. Women could be sexier. It's really perverse. It's as if all the men got together and expected the women to look at each other only. How can we care about a man's mind if we do not see him honestly?

We need more free and honest images of men which include their sexuality. A person is like an oreo, and sex is the filling, you need a healthy sexuality to be a whole person.

Women don't see that now in the men who inspire us for love. It's really sad.

Instead they get romance novels which are sanitized emotionally.

In France it's different, I saw a billboard of a man in a speedo with a women pulling it out to look down and she was saying Ooh la la. Sure it was an ad and he was half nude, but it was nice to see a man and a woman interacting that way, with honesty and to see a man exude sexuality in a positive way.

What do you think?

posted May 01, 2004 12:55 AM            

quote:

---

"I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never, never let you forget you’re a man". syndrome. What’s that??

That ad really sucked it's true and brainwashed a lot of women including my sister. I always hated that song anyway.

---

Hmmm, I really liked that song by Peggy Lee.
Really a celebration of the strength and versitility of women.

Now if a woman can manage to do all that and be sweet at the same time, well we're talking about a different song---"So Rare"

posted May 01, 2004 08:51 AM              

I know women that try though, they really do, but their tempers are at odds with their appearance until something snaps.

I am only sweet to those who really count, I save up my real self for those that really care.
I forget who said spend your superficialty on those who who wouldn't respect your true self.

Playing Fish,
I think you are coming to the point in your life when you realize that men have really unhealthy attitudes about sex in childhood and have to work out their issues individually. Men are even more disturbed by sexuality than women. It's like a bubble bursts when you realize this:

If you read a list of behaviors that include
Healthy sense of self,
Healthy sense of sexuality
good self esteem..
things needed for life..

Many men (not all) just don't fit this category and know it and blame sexuality.

I knew a man who told me once he felt like women used him for sex and never wanted to know him and he hated sex. He felt like a human ........can't say it here. I was shocked because he appeared to have the perfect life and was a really nice guy.

But he couldn't separate shame from sex with women, and hated them for making him feel that way. It's a good thing he told me this but it made me so so sad. He was an Aqua with many planets in Capricorn. He was sad a lot underneath.

We as women, do look up to men a little, and always will due too our parenting. You can't really undo conditioning. You can evolve slowly. Forgiving men for being human is the trick.

Then you can work on finding one who can forgive you. It takes good parenting and lots of love and experience.

Good insight about the Venus comes off to men as Mars. Maybe when Venus in Aries wants to be friendly it comes off as Mars driven and scares men, who then objectify the experience. I know Venus in Aries and Scorpio can make people insecure since it's very direct. I believe making men feel more comfortable with their Mars is a way to overcome the objectifying.

If a man wants to be a man around me that's fine. And if he wants to do nothing that's fine too, he can lay in a hammock all day if he wants. As long as he makes me feel happy to be a woman.

To me a woman can't feel happy and do everything at once, I have to feel joyful.
That must be why I like air signs, they are attracted to joy and light. However they can be sad sometimes too.

The search continues for a man who feels good about himself during seduction.

posted May 01, 2004 10:56 PM              

I can only wear my 'sexy' clothes when she's not around. I can only kiss my boyfriend when she's not around. I can only have loud crazy sex when she's not around. If I seem repressed, it's only because I have to. It's where I am in my life right now. The sacrifices one makes for their offspring.

But, every female is somebody's daughter. Every female could potentially be somebody's mom someday. We're PEOPLE, for pete sake, not just FEMALES. Sure, it's great to be beaming with pride about being female, but I'm more proud to be a decent person, non-gender specific, than I am about being female. Sometimes it's like I feel like...Big whoop. I'm female. So does that entitle me to special consideration? In most circumstances, no....I feel the same way about males.

But I don't want my 13 year old daughter running through town with no top on either. If people want boobie shows 24/7, they should to go Mardi Gras, or become members of a Pygmy tribe.

Why are we so uptight about boobs? BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY NICE. AND NOT ALL BOOBS ARE CREATED EQUAL. If a person is rather well endowed, they will stand out and be objectified. Geez, this is so obviously true in our society, even WITH our tops on. I'd never go to a nudist coloney, because I still think I would stand out and get ogled. All the dirty old men would be staring. Why can't men run around with their weiners hanging out? BECAUSE NOT ALL WEINERS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Some are really really nice, while others, well ...you get the idea. Not all Boobies, or all Weiners are created equal. Since we clearly have preferrences about size, this makes some people feel like freek shows, while others feel inadequate. Best to keep it covered, in general, unless you're just mediocre and feel normal about it. We're not all mediocre.

I've got Saturn transiting my 8th house right now, about to conjuct my Mars in early Leo, and soon to conjunct my sun and Mercury. It's like Mae West meets the school teacher cronie from the 'Pink Floyde - The Wall' movie.

posted May 01, 2004 11:21 PM              

But, speaking for myself, I am just trying to fall into more of a balance with all of it right now though. I was starting to feel way too tense about all of these things, and so, I realized that I needed to try to find more of a center from the middle of it all that I could work from than what I was experiencing when these conversations started.

But no, it's not really just so easy for me to experience that said balance all of the time though, especially when we are talking about the subject of young people like your daughter, I know that.

I ain't no Libra talking here in the first place anyway, trust me, lol. And in the last several years, I have discovered that finding balance in all sorts of ways is one of my greatest challenges in life, lol.

posted May 02, 2004 01:08 PM            

just a side note: I was always told that it's legal for a woman to go topless in Portland, Oregon. I don't think it's just Canada..I've heard there are cities in the US that have similar policy.

posted May 02, 2004 01:15 PM            

I am speechless. I had a really hard time believing that at one time in history this was the norm! Talk about a fast track to dysfunction and some nasty repression that would no doubt eat away at a person from the inside. *shudder*

posted May 02, 2004 04:30 PM              

Lol, I agree with Harpyr, that is one freaked up document. Yipes, that's a horrific thing to read, I do know what you both mean.

I'll most likely show up on their message boards sometime too, since as you can tell, I need some help working all of these female issues out for myself, lol.

Thanks for the link!

posted May 04, 2004 07:52 AM            

Beauty of a Woman ~~

> >The beauty of a woman is not in the clothes she wears,
> >The figure she carries, or the way she combs her hair.
> >The beauty of a woman must be seen from her eyes,
> >Because that is the doorway to her heart,
> >The place where love resides.
> >The beauty of a woman is not in a facial mole,
> >But true beauty in a woman is reflected in her soul.
> >It is the caring that she lovingly gives,
> >The passion that she shows.
> >The beauty of a woman
> >With time, only grows..

posted May 06, 2004 08:30 PM              

That's so interesting that you should mention that about the kids having more developed bodies these days due to their Pluto / Scorp placement, because I was watching one of the late night talk shows again the other night and he had some sex therapist on that said about the exact same thing as what you did, minus the astro explanation for it of course though, lol.

She said that young people, while not anymore emotionally prepared for their sexual activities at their age, ARE however now more developed on a physical level for their ages, which makes them pursue their activities at a younger rate than what they have done in the past.

She also mentioned the sex in the media having a great deal to do with it too.

Couldn't resist pointing that one out again, I guess, lol.

But I hadn't realized that this generation was undergoing such a severe change in their development that it might have such a serious effect upon their behavior this way until you and this woman mentioned all of it to us though.

It kind of all falls in with what I was saying about the girls having their periods at younger and younger ages too, I think.

We shall see where it all leads to from here....

posted May 07, 2004 07:34 AM              

There didn't seem to be much emotion behind it.
I found the best way to be happy was to hang out with older boys and girls, and My Sag Mars liked to travel and explore other cultures. I spent a lot of time on the "road" at cousins, friends houses, and visiting other countries. That's how I dealt with the physical side, I was into sports too.

I have noticed girls into sports were happier, but mothers are so down on their daughters getting into sports (compared to their sons) it's sad. I had to fight my mother to play tennis! I encourage girls and women to play competitive sports with men,
It can be fun.
And it's a new perspective.

posted May 07, 2004 07:21 PM              

Lol, I guess I missed a lot of that when I was back in school.

No way did I or any of my friends at that time have any of the stuff that you're mentioning going on at that age, but then again, we were the real 'freaks and geeks' of the place after all anyway though, lol.

My Pluto is in Libra, BTW.

posted May 08, 2004 01:44 PM              

My brother is 14 and is really tall for his age, but he has no desire for romance yet. A girl slapped him when he was 12 so he is still recovering.

He does want a wife but he wants her to be special. He is more likely to do things out of curiousity than emotional need as long as he's happy. He is an Aquarius with Mars and Neptune in Capricorn, and moon in Leo, Virgo Ascendant. So far zero interest in actually touching a girl, he likes dogs and horses more.

I still feel like a predator though. I am starting to believe love is too powerful and I would rather love many than a few. That must be my Cancer Moon. I don't want to own anyone. It would hurt me too much to harm anyone in the name of love,

posted May 08, 2004 04:50 PM              

Here's some rules if you want to swim in the pool of love (which applies to EVERYONE):

Swim at your own risk
No diving allowed
No inflatable non-organic toys
No running
and finally...