posted January 03, 2006 08:58 AM              

Anyway, I’ve been looking at the charts of these “all men are ( insert something negative ) “ women…and I’ve found they all have aspects between Venus and Pluto ( usually negative ).

Coincidence?

I think so …but what do you think?

Also what about Men who hate women??

*edited to add

posted January 03, 2006 09:45 AM              

.. just being curious ... ... what signs was venus found in ...
was it a majority of earth signs ???
.. i ask as 'earth' has a tendency to 'externalize' problems ..
..
did Saturn show up in the natals as being afflicted ??
.. Saturn in Cancer or the 4th house .. can lead to a fear of men ..
( as in .. fear and hate be connected )
re Venus and Pluto: ... intense feelings .. in both love and hate ..

**** what about Men who hate women??****
.. aspects between their moon and an outer planet ..
e.g. Saturn / Pluto ... .... ??

.. one less to deal with in the competition stakes ..

.. although ... ... i reckon one would have to look much futher than astrology to find the source / reason / motivation .. ... for someones feelings of hatred towards whomever or whatever ...

posted January 03, 2006 10:10 AM              

Well, I for one don't think ALL men are (), just quite a few of the ones I come across. It's like friends in general. You have to open a lot of oysters

Some people make friends or get boyfriends wherever they are and that is just fine. Others are maybe a little more choosy

posted January 03, 2006 10:10 AM              

I call these gay men who have sex. They hate women except for one thing. They are catty and put down women but will make an exception for one who is useful.

That is like being gay but will tolerate someone of the opposite sex once in a while.

Venus conjunct Pluto in a man is VERY picky.

Maybe it is a very picky quality that we view as hate?

Women who hate men? I find Gemini rising to be very independent, but that could be for reasons I know nothing about.

posted January 03, 2006 10:56 AM              

My husband has his Moon in an out-of-sign opp. with his Pluto (P=29.30d Libra, M=2d Taurus) opp. his Saturn (S=4.03d Scorp)...

I can't say that he hates women, but I can say that he has a very...complicated...relationship with his mother.

It seems that most of his friends growing up were female, that he felt more comfortable around females (especially as a teenager).

posted January 03, 2006 12:49 PM              

Effectively what any guy is looking for is a nurturer, someone who will fit in with his friends, and someone to have sex with, and anything else is relatively unimportant.

posted January 03, 2006 01:06 PM              

“did Saturn show up in the natals as being afflicted ??
.. Saturn in Cancer or the 4th house .. can lead to a fear of men ..”

At first I didn’t look at Saturn - it’s not well aspected. Two of them have no positive aspects, all negative.
Some just have bad aspects between Saturn and the Sun, Moon or Venus.

I didn’t think of Saturn I’ll edit my first post.

“.. aspects between their moon and an outer planet ..
e.g. Saturn / Pluto ... .... ??”
Interesting : ) thanks for that

Both Pluto and saturn are well aspected in my chart.

AT you don’t seem to be that type. And you’re post shows it.

I’m pretty choosy, but I could never say I hate men. I’ve had strong male role models when I was younger ( which made up for my dad’s absence ).

Perhaps I should explain what I mean by hate - or at least, what seems like hate to me.

If a woman says:
Men are all b@stards
God I hate men, they’re all the same
Typical man, all he thinks about is himself
Blah blah blah

posted January 03, 2006 01:14 PM              

She'll do it with the biggest grin on her face she'll seem so elated, it’s scary

posted January 03, 2006 03:42 PM            

I actually haven't been lucky with men, they haven't treated me well in the past, even when they weren't the bad-boy type... It's not out of cruelty they hurt me... it was often due to insecurity and cowardice because they loved me too much and weren't prepared for it.

Apparently my Venus-Saturn conjunction in Leo makes me prone to suffering in love in the early years so I can learn a lesson and have a lovely relationship later. Also, a Mars-Pluto square reflects a possible karmic debt involving anger towards men coming from past lifetimes where I could have been abused...

I do remember fearing men in my teens but that feeling eased through my twenties.

Now I don't think they are worse than we, women, are. What is bad is a particular person, man or woman. It's the conflict of interests treated with selfishness what leads to pain.

posted January 03, 2006 03:55 PM              

I had bad luck with men in my life, but never as bad as some. Never the type to burn me, steal my car, that kind of thing that you hear about. Once the dust settled I always came out okay or better.

I agree with your sentiments regarding the future:>

posted January 03, 2006 03:59 PM              

I think men also have that silly rule, three dates and no contact and she's out! I have even asked men this and they admit, if they are goofy and honest that they are waiting for some kind of contact.

posted January 03, 2006 04:42 PM              

Also, I didn't know about the "three dates" rule. Seems there is so much expectation on dates, makes ya wonder how much men have been conditioned as well as women.

Missed you for a while, how have you been doing?

posted January 03, 2006 06:46 PM            

quote:

---

I call these gay men who have sex. They hate women except for one thing. They are catty and put down women but will make an exception for one who is useful.

That is like being gay but will tolerate someone of the opposite sex once in a while.

---

What the hell? How does being gay make you hate the opposite sex? That makes no sense. At all.

That being said...I don't hate women. I just hate certain attitudes that some women seem to be prone to. The idea that they should be treated specially really ticks me off. I treat women the same way I treat other guys. I see no reason that I should go out of my way to try to please a woman (ie, pulling out her chair, opening doors, etc.) when it's not even my objective to please them. I'm not attracted to women physically. That doesn't mean I hate them, I just don't see any reason to treat them differently than I would another guy.

I can't stand it when women think they're something so special that it should be a treat for any random guy to do stuff for them. Run errands for them, open doors, pull out chairs, etc, etc, and then the girl doesn't actually want anything to do with them anyway. What's the point?

I don't know. I do have a certain problem with a lot of women, but I can't articulate it very well. It's just a sort of attitude or expectation that a good deal of women seem to have. Especially little girls and teenage girls.

For the record, I have my Moon (Sag) square Venus (Pisces). That's the only aspect my Moon makes other than an quincunx to Jupiter (Cancer).

posted January 03, 2006 08:37 PM              

I understand what you are saying. That attitude you talk about is not something you observe because you are partial to guys. It really IS annoying the way they act. When straight women act that way around each other, it gets really competitive, and usually over superficial things. When there's a bi or gay woman around, they'll basically have the same outlook as you and many other men. It's like, get over yourself... especially when they are the type of women who lie, gossip and use people. Just because a woman acts like she's the shyte doesn't make it so, and it really doesn't inspire people. It just brings the true sucka's to their knees. That type of game doesn't sound like fun to me.

posted January 03, 2006 11:23 PM            

I love men.. I do not think of them at all in one catagory or another. That is just too lame for words. Both sexes can be cruel, not just those with the Y chromosome.

Then again I have Sun trine Saturn (with my Saturn being in the 8th house.. which people think is all ohhhh...scary).

In reality, I am a bit of a commitment phobe, but once I do commit, I give my all. I adore men and have mostly male friends.

Most women on the other hand annoy the living poop out of me. I hate the gossiping and conniving crap.

posted January 03, 2006 11:49 PM              

Anyway if I don't want someone's company, I let him or her know in subtle ways that I prefer to work or be alone and that's enough.

Most of the time men are much more catty, and I never met a man who opened a door for me unless I was carrying something heavy, usually for him.

I can't imagine why I would think gay men are catty and like to criticize the women they see???
Right.

Got lots of gay male friends here and they can be a huge pain sometimes too!

God I can't stand it when someone quotes me without asking me for an explanation first.
The reason I said Gay is because it's usual that gay men don't have sex with women, unless of course one is married to a woman-happens all the time.

So, the men I have met who honestly I didn't analyze further, who hated women, would stoop to having sex with a woman but wouldn't associate with her in any other way. They preferred to spend their free time at games, bars, with the guys, and any time with the girl had to be for sexual, or financial purposes only.

I once thought only gay men were disinterested in women sexually but I was wrong.

There are men who are so disinterested in women in any way shape or form, as people, it's a wonder they can talk to us at all.

Likewise, I have met women who have zero interest in talking to men.

Again, I have no knowlege of these women who expect men to open doors, because I don't ask them, and they don't do this in front of me.

The other day, I did see a man slam a door in an older woman's face, bringing her to tears. She turned to me and said "he works in the parking lot, that's why he's mean.

"You should see the other one"

If I saw the other parking lot attendant, and he did that to me, I'd probably kick his ass.

real hate isn't angry, it's impersonal.

posted January 04, 2006 01:11 AM              

I have had four EXTREMELY HORRIBLE experiences with men, one including a physically abusive epileptic ex-husband (divorced). And im only 20...

but i still love men. Im so darn heterosexual its unbelievable. When I see a man I like I am very unbelievably flirty. But never aggressive. I love everything about men, their adams apple, sense of humor (every man has one, its just one of a variety of kinds), their stronger arms and big hands (guys with small hands--big no-no).

Anyways I have Mars conj my Sun and square my AC, also Venus in Aries (Libra rising) make me both fiery and feminine at the same time. I totally love the macho buff guys (sorry) but I do, and have fallen for several.

I think the ninth house stellium, and knowing that Pidaua is a Sagittarius too, makes me ever optimistic about relationships. Even if Im not in one, Im sure there will be a great one coming up sometime. And sometimes when I dont want to be in one, Im happy like that too. Just happy having my guy friends posse you know A gem woman is never alone.

I don't know a single Gemini woman anyway who doesn't have guy friends, or more guy friends than girl friends.

Men are irresistable. I donno what yall are talkin about.

posted January 04, 2006 01:12 AM              

However, I don't think men are meant to be thinking or making decisions, but are instead meant to execute the decisions that women should be passively making for them in a matriarichal society. Men left to their own devices and in "control" tend to end in destruction, without a woman there to guide them.

posted January 04, 2006 02:52 AM            

I do have a problem with certain people, whether they are male or female.. This is usually if they are being mean/rude.. or if they treat others badly.. something like what Nove described.. except it isn't confined to girls.. I know both women and men like that, people who think they are above others due to some superficial reason and will treat others badly based on this. I keep away lol..

Someone hurting me I can deal with very well, because a lot of things don't affect me.. That’s partly because I criticize myself to an extent that, the bitchiest person in the world.. would still sound like they are complimenting me in comparison. I expect a lot of negative things of people, and I’m extremely surprised when I get something positive.. Even when I go through periods when this happens often, I’ll never actually “expect” it. I’ll always expect the opposite and I’ll always be so completely relieved and pleasantly surprised when something positive happens, even something little.. because usually I’m very tense and prepared for the *bad* version of events. Thank u Cappy moon ..

posted January 04, 2006 03:52 AM            

I also love treating those men as gentlemen, as some kind of medieval knights. It’s lovely.

I have tons of male friends and most of them don’t do it. I still like them a lot the way they are. I even prefer male company and I enjoy being treated as a mate, diluted in the background, when they feel so at ease with you that wouldn’t act any different if you weren’t there. But there are times for everything.

I must say that I am an independent and strong woman used to fight the world on her own two feet. I’m used to deal with men at the same level. What I have, I have earned. No man has given me a thing or has ever solved any problem for me.

I don’t think there’s nothing wrong with behaving differently in front of a lady or a gentleman. We must have the same rights but we are not exactly the same animal… I think that is wrong. We are losing our identities, amalgamating in a kind of asexual indefinite beings. I personally like men who are very manly and behave like men in all aspects, also treating me and regarding as what I’m, a lady. I like gentlemen behaving as gentlemen… at least some of them. I may sound old-fashioned, but hey, it’s what I like…

In some aspects of our lives, for example at work, we are only persons. So it’s fair to dress similarly (Personally, I don’t wear make up for work, I usually wear trousers and look elegant but plain) and be treated the same way (no opening doors or pulling up chairs!!!). But in your personal life, what is wrong with showing the difference? Don’t we make an effort going to the hairdressers, wearing sexy clothing and red lipstick??? I do… And it’s not always to get men sexually interested; sometimes I just do it for myself. Because I’m a woman and I like to look different from men.

Of course, to be treated as a lady you have to be one and behave like one… I agree that some girls just want to be treated that way when they behave as cheap and not-classy stuff… That treatment is not a birthright… Some women expect favours from men just because they were born with two X cromosomes; they only try to get advantage (as if it was their birth right to be given a lift or to be invited to all drinks…).

posted January 04, 2006 04:53 AM              

Some men (and women) do actually try to buy people through paying for everything and then getting upset because they're not getting sex etc. back from it because "I bought you all this stuff" "I did all this for you" - even if it's only just one date!!They have no patience with letting things develop, they expect a quick fix. It's a trade-off, in monetary terms, which leads one to question the motives behind the action. It's "what one does (dahling)". I never expect people to pay for me and am actually surprised when they offer!! What I'm saying here is that the FACT that one loves is enough for me, the good feeling is what turns me on, I feel uncomfortable having things bought for me, it doesn't really mean much unless it's something I really love (and even then it needn't cost the earth). But I do appreciate it when I and my friends can share our work with each other and exchange opinions. That, to me, is the best thing ever. AND that comes for free.

I have a very dear Aries friend who I go to visit periodically, who has never phoned me personally or visited me (although she will write). If one was looking at this situation in terms of exchange one might interpret it as being one-sided. Yet this has NEVER been an issue, because I value her friendship. Likewise, I love someone I can't have, because they are unavailable. But because I love them (and can't currently envisage loving someone else) I woudl rather be friends with them and enjoy all that our friendship can bring, because to me that sort of devotion is a purer sort of love than if I just dated guys I didn't really care to have a permanent relationship with, but went out with anyway.

I have come to the happy realization (and it took long enough) that I don't need to measure my success by the amount of friends I have, the amount of guys I attract etc.; that seemed important in my teens and twenties, not now. I don't hate guys, I'm just interested in my work most of the time now and, of course, they would rather I devoted my attention to them...

There are many ways of looking at a situation but I think too many people look at things from an exclusively sexual point of view (ie all the question posed boils down to in the end is sex). Sex becomes a competition, whereas it should be something very precious...and go beyond mere surface attraction.

If all this seems eccentric, it's because I am - apparently though I don't personally see myself as such. (See my thread on "Effects of Saturn in Leo", further down the page).