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Author
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Topic: Plutonians: Miscarriage or Death?
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clockworkrose
Knowflake Posts: 121
From: Pa, USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 21, 2008 03:44 PM
 
hi there. this is an interesting topic. For those of you with Pluto strong in your chart (ie. Sun-Pluto, Moon-Pluto, or ASC-Pluto hard aspects), was there a miscarriage or death in the family before your birth?It's interesting, because in her book 'Healing Pluto Problems', Donna Conningham states: "Helen Wambaugh hypnotized hundreds of people, many whom did not believe in reincarnation or survival after death. Nearly all remembered events in the period before birth, including knowledge of the life task and the selection of their parents, in which they participated. There were some individuals, apparently Plutonians, who did not wish to incarnate again, who were born more or less against their will and were very angry about it. Some remembered miscarriages their mother had beforehand in which they were supposed to be born but withdrew. I ask Plutonians who evidence ambivilance about living if there was such an event in their family before they were born, and they often reply, startled, "How did you know that?" I would definately say it applies in my case. My mother gave birth to premature twins about 3 months before my conception (one was born alive, but died a few minutes later, and one was born dead). I always wonder... could this have been me, but as donna suggests, that I withdrew? I also have a sister, so I always wander if this could have been the two of us, but we were hesitant or not ready to be born yet. If not, obviously my mom was dealing with a great deal of grief while carrying me. Also, my fathers mom died a few months after I was born. I was born with Pluto smack dab on my Ascendant. So, I'm wondering, did any of you other Plutonians experience a miscarriage or death right before your birth? IP: Logged |
Quinnie
Knowflake Posts: 1193
From: on a chair beside a window
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted May 21, 2008 03:49 PM
My mum didn't experience a miscarriage or anything but she was rushed for a c-section when she started bleeding. I was born with a heart condtion though (sun conjunct Pluto in the 1st).Would this also apply to Scorpios? IP: Logged |
clockworkrose
Knowflake Posts: 121
From: Pa, USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 21, 2008 03:50 PM
hmm, maybe it would apply to scorpios. not sure, since she only mentions those with Pluto strong in their chart. was there a death right before or after your birth? IP: Logged |
taurean_scorpion
Knowflake Posts: 1451
From: santa monica, california
Registered: May 2005
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posted May 21, 2008 04:10 PM
I was supposed to have an older sister...but she died when she was two. She was born a month premature andgot really ill,but I'm not sure of th edisease.Taurus Sun/12th, Moon in Scorpio/Conjunct Pluto/6th/Cancer Rising. IP: Logged |
plutomaki
Knowflake Posts: 73
From: Puruuto
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted May 21, 2008 04:27 PM
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Astra
Knowflake Posts: 553
From:
Registered: May 2007
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posted May 21, 2008 04:30 PM
No one died right before or after my birth. My mom didn't have any unusual problems during labor. However, people in my family tend to experience violent deaths and have rough childhoods.IP: Logged |
plutomaki
Knowflake Posts: 73
From: Puruuto
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted May 21, 2008 04:51 PM
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belgz
Knowflake Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted May 21, 2008 05:34 PM
I have pluto in first house trine moon, mars and sextile venus, its funny what you wrote because my mum had a difficult labour with me and my great grandmother died just after my birth. I dont know whether to believe in reincarnation or not or whether i picked my parents but ive had a veryyyy hard life ive lived away from my parents since i was 13 and just the other day after all ive been through in my life and all the mistakes ive made and situations i was put in because of the absence of both my parents i wouldnt have had my life any other way. I asked myself just last week if i could be anyone else or if i had the chance to be someone who would i be and if i came back to this life i would want to relive all that suffering and pain again and still be living the life i have even though i always wished for a happy family and different circumstances i believe i will make that when i have children. My mum had an ectopic pregnancy after me and my brother does have pluto squaring his sun from the 6th house and trine pluto. So does this reincarnation thing you mentioned claim that we chose our lives/destiny and parents? ------------------
ASC: Virgo Sun: Cancer
Moon: Gemini
Mars: Cancer
Mercury: Cancer
Venus: Leo IP: Logged |
belgz
Knowflake Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted May 21, 2008 05:37 PM
I just had a look at my friends first borns chart and she has pluto in first square her sun and opposing her moon. There was no miscarriage before her or a death.??? ------------------
ASC: Virgo Sun: Cancer
Moon: Gemini
Mars: Cancer
Mercury: Cancer
Venus: Leo IP: Logged |
plutomaki
Knowflake Posts: 73
From: Puruuto
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted May 21, 2008 06:54 PM
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belgz
Knowflake Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted May 21, 2008 07:48 PM
Well its a 8 degree orb. Her fathers actually a genius. Both parents are science professors but are very aggressive type people. Her mother is a very dedicated mother who lives only for her children and the father isnt a very hands on dad but loves his children also. Theyre parents fight quite a bit and usually ends in violence and shes 4 yrs old but you can tell already shes unforgiving and never forgets. Shes a bit evil for a 4 yr old pisces girl as well. Shes jealous and always trying to hurt her little sister------------------
ASC: Virgo Sun: Cancer
Moon: Gemini
Mars: Cancer
Mercury: Cancer
Venus: Leo IP: Logged |
plutomaki
Knowflake Posts: 73
From: Puruuto
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted May 21, 2008 08:23 PM
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wild sheep
Knowflake Posts: 289
From: Oregon (USA)
Registered: Dec 2007
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posted May 21, 2008 09:10 PM
I have Scorpio on the Ascendant and its ruler Pluto in H12, opposing Mars and Venus in House 6. There weren't any deaths in my family proceeding my birth, I don't think, but my mother chose to end several pregnancies before conceiving me, because of ambivalence about the idea of children and because of the instability of the relationship she had before meeting my father.------------------
"You stay young as long as you can learn, acquire new habits and suffer contradiction." (Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach) IP: Logged |
libraschoice7
Knowflake Posts: 2085
From: Arizona
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted May 21, 2008 10:41 PM
I have Sun conjunction Pluto, Moon square Pluto, and Pluto square ascendant...as far as death or miscarriage none of these factors have ever been brought up, at least not to my knowledge I might ask though just in case to find out.------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer "I seem to have the blind self-acceptance of the eccentric who can't conceive that his eccentricities are not clearly understood" IP: Logged |
Scorpio Chick
Knowflake Posts: 147
From:
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted May 21, 2008 10:58 PM
Linda made the observation that anyone born with a Sun in Scorpio either had a loved one die a year prior or after thier birth.That is true for me. My real grand-father died within a year of my birth. It also holds true for all the Scorps I know that are living. They have had a loved oned die +- (plus or minus) one year of a Scorpio being born. Weird but true. SC IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 2160
From: Born in S.Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted May 21, 2008 11:17 PM
Dude... this is fascinating.Yeah, Pluto is my chart Ruler so...
Asc Scorpio
Mars Scorpio
Jupiter Scorpio
Eros Scorpio also... and this touches almost my entire chart in some way. Before my older sister, my mom had two miscarriages. Nothing immediately before me (that I know of) and then my mom had me 6 years after my sis. And I was a premature baby. IP: Logged |
IXIEveryTimeIDie
Knowflake Posts: 61
From: Milpitas, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted May 22, 2008 01:20 AM
My Sun, Mercury, & Pluto are all tightly conjunct in Scorpio. Sun & Pluto at 15 degrees, Mercury at 13. All in the 6th house. I have Mars in Scorpio in the 6th house too, but its only at 2 degrees.Pluto also trines my Moon in Pisces & Jupiter in Cancer. It opposes my Ascendant in Taurus. I was a premature baby. I had a brother before me who died of leukemia. About 3 years before I was born. He looks exactly like me. When I was younger, my mother believed I was his reincarnation but I think she's let go of that idea. His death has emotionally scarred my family pretty bad. Not really a family anyone would want to live with. I feel like I was born into a cursed family. I've even been told by my family that I'm a curse. IP: Logged |
Scorpio Chick
Knowflake Posts: 147
From:
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted May 22, 2008 02:19 AM
Every Time,I know it's no consolation, but when a mother loses her child, it's one the the most painful things imaginable. The fact that you resemble the dead must bring back very raw feelings for your family. I know it is not your fault. Just the fact that you look exactly like your brother, well it pains your mother... (I would venture to say that she projects the resemblance on you...) In this lifetime, your family must realize that your brothers time is gone. He came into your lives for a reason and he left for a reason. Mothers often blame the living child when one child has died. A mothers love is very deep. Chalk this up as a lesson your
mother has to learn, as hard as it is though. Please be patient with her. I know the comments hurt, but the pain she has experienced is unimaginable. Maybe it is your duty in life to make her proud. Love her, even though she may have trouble expressing her love for you. You are not a curse. You are a reminder of her lost love. She should embrace you, and be thankful that such a soul is in her life. It may be difficult for her to realize, but you truly are a blessing in disguise. Love and light, SC. IP: Logged |
robyn.c
Knowflake Posts: 207
From: england
Registered: Dec 2007
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posted May 22, 2008 05:03 AM
true true the scorpio death with every instance i can think of. i have a baby due 24/10, boyfs grandfather died last year.
his brother born 27/10, they lost their grandmother around the time he was born.
dear friend lost a baby at 20 weeks (it wasnt forming properly) and went on to have a scorp a year later.IP: Logged |
blue moon
Moderator Posts: 4700
From: U.K
Registered: Dec 2007
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posted May 22, 2008 05:42 AM
No. She didn't have a miscarriage before I was born. No-one died recently before, my one sibling was a live birth and he is still in the material world. At birth I had the Moon tightly conjunct BML seperating from Pluto. It was far in the past and in the future that such unpleasant things happened. So I feel like I am a conduit in the middle of such happenings.
This has only reinforced how much I identify with the Karmic Moon as written about on here:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/017401.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/017424.html
Everytime's post sounded familiar, and it was only when I re-read it that I noticed you say you have Sun/Mercury/Pluto. Snap, she does too.
Given what he has been through so far my elder son's Pluto 11 degrees in front of his Moon should be tighter. Yes, his great-grandfather passed whilst I carried him, but a little more pert is the fact he is a surviving twin. IP: Logged |
clockworkrose
Knowflake Posts: 121
From: Pa, USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 22, 2008 10:46 AM
thanks guys for your responses. so, there a few that have had deaths/miscarriages before birth, and a few who haven't. (I would also include abortions as well) Also, I wanted to point out, that donna mentioned that this particularly applied to Plutonians who carried deep resentment and "ambivilance toward living", like wishing they weren't born. quote:
By the way, how do you feel about Pluto being on the ASC? I think the placement is awesome.
Also, nice handle. Is clockworkrose in reference to a clockwork orange? Mechanical thing masquerading as an organic being? Something like that.
Wow, I don't really know how I feel about it lol! Sometimes I like it, sometimes I hate it... mainly I hate it lol. It brings so much sh*t into my life... emotional crisis, intense transformation... it's like you can never live superficially... pluto won't let you! bleh, I'm over it. yeah, I got the name from a clockwork orange.  IP: Logged |
clockworkrose
Knowflake Posts: 121
From: Pa, USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 22, 2008 10:50 AM
quote:
Linda made the observation that anyone born with a Sun in Scorpio either had a loved one die a year prior or after thier birth.
That's funny, I think this may also apply to Scorpio Moon and Scorpio Rising people as well.... I have Scorpio Rising, and the twins died almost exactly 1 year before I was born, my dad's mother died a few months AFTER I was born, and my mom's father died about 2 years after I was born. oh, and also my mom's brother died when I was 4... so I was pretty much constantly surrounded by death as a child. yikes. IP: Logged |
Got Gemini?
Knowflake Posts: 1037
From: Mercury
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted May 22, 2008 05:06 PM
I am the third child of 4 and yes, there were miscarriages before my oldest sister. I don't know about right before me though. And I think my grandfather on my father's side died shortly before I was born. Im going to ask to make sure.I have an exact moon/pluto conjunction in my 2nd house. ------------------
Virgo Asc & Mars
Gemini Sun
Libra Moon
Gemini Mercury
Cancer Venus IP: Logged |
seveneieghtorange
Knowflake Posts: 410
From: atlanta, georgia
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted May 23, 2008 06:56 PM
My mother had a few miscarriages before she had my brother....he is not Plutonian at all. My mom however, was pregnant with me within 3 months and I have a lot of aspects with my natal Pluto. Does this count?IP: Logged |
clockworkrose
Knowflake Posts: 121
From: Pa, USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 23, 2008 09:33 PM
I don't think it has to be right before you were born... imo there could be a miscarriage several years before your birth. just in my case, it was pretty close - a year later. but my sister, who has Moon square Pluto, was born 5 years after the twins death.IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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