posted October 16, 2008 02:47 PM         

i left there in '95 and it DOES tend to be older people, and especially working class older people, but they are still around. the melting pot that was england in the latter half of the 20th century happened very fast (as compared to the 200 years we have been going through it here) and left a lot of the older ones behind wondering what had happened. "black" was a very common term for all people of colour, especially indians, who you know can be very dark, my point being that distinctions were not made between one brown person and another. i am certainly not saying that everyone uses this terminology in the same way. most people under 45 have grown up in a multiracial england, though i'm sure there are plenty of villages where they are still a very small minority...my inlaws are still not sure it wasn't the influx of (darkskinned) colonials who "ruined" the country! and my ex husband is trying but he is basically quite racist too. fortunately for them my grandson has a black father, so in the name of family their horizons are being forced to stretch!

but my main point was that england, and europe, are not free of racism either. many are trying, as here, but it is not a done deal yet.

posted October 16, 2008 06:59 PM         

I had a feeling it was people from the older generation, I have come a cross a few like you mentioned. Of course not all are like this but I know of a few.

You're right there are some who feel that Great Britain was ruined by economic migration of Black & Asians in the 40's onwards. What's forgotten by these few is most of the people who immigrated were "citzens" of the colonies, they helped rebuild Britain & its industries after the war (Windrush settlers).
The new complaint is that refugees & asylum seekers are taking all the jobs...bloody ignorance! Most asylum seekers are not even allowed to work! Don't they realise they have come to the country to flee persecution or death?? Where's the compassion?!

I'm gonna shut up now LOL

You are right, there is racism in Europe. Having travelled to a few counties in Europe, I thing England is tolerant in comparison, there's a lot more multiculturalism here.

Not sure if I would go as far as calling it a melting pot - I think the analogy of salad bowl is more appropriate. People still retain their cultural identities but they integrate with other groups.

posted October 16, 2008 07:35 PM         

Lets face it,there are a lot of people both black and white that don't like the idea of interracial relationships and what many of us who are born from those stand for.

I get just as annoyed with racist blacks just as much as I get annoyed with racist whites.

I once lost my temper with a black guy because he believed that white women get with black men because of sexual stuff. I was so angry,it took 3 people to get me away from him. He and other blacks that I knew in the navy were totally against interracial relationships as well as mixed people acknowledging their mixed heritage and not just their black heritage.

NAACP wanted all mixed people with black in them to mark down only Black for 2000 Census which was the first Census that mixed people were allowed to mark down multiple boxes for race. I was one of the 2.4 percent of the US population that marked down multiple boxes for race for 2000 Census. A lot of us mixed are tired of the one drop rule.

btw...I don't like using the n'word in any shape or form. I don't like calling blacks that nor do I want blacks calling me that. Of course,I want nobody of any race calling me the n'word.

here is a website for mulattoes http://www.mulatto.org/

Mulattoes was the word that was written in Rex. E Bill's Rulership book

Some get offended with the word,Negro, but that's just Spanish and Portuguese for Black.

any ways...I am staying out of ideological arguments....especially racism. I already got slammed by a few people in lindaland for daring to discuss the realities of racism here in USA.

imho when it all comes down to, we are all equal to each other because all of us are human beings regardless of race,nationality,gender,sexual orientation,etc. I will die with that belief.

I am a believer in reincarnation, and I believe that we have had pastlives of being every race,many nationalities, and both genders. I believe that all those things are temporary, but our souls are eternal.

posted October 16, 2008 08:17 PM         

I do think people have reclaimed the term to take the derogatory sting out of it much the same as many black people use the N word. There's no difference really, both terms have strong connotations of slavery

As for Rex E Bill rulership book, I don't know much about it, its it an old astrology book? Was he of mixed race heritage?

Your race-relations/PL thread sounds interesting. It would be fascinating to hear a multi-ethnic perspective. I've often wondered about my past lives. I've has a couple of regressions where I remembered a life as a European.

posted October 17, 2008 04:18 AM         

quote:

---

They've stopped making that Alf Garnet nonsense

---

Not sure if I'd call it nonsense, it was Jewish man's satire on anti-semitism and racism. It was of it's time.

If I recall correctly, Warren Mitchell gave an interview where he said people sometimes came up to him on the street and slapped him on the back saying: well done, Alf! Maybe that was a compliment to his acting skills but it must also have been a little depressing. (And this is a good hundred years after Benjamin D'Israeli.)

Prejudice will always exist in some form, anywhere you go. One of those is that someone, somewhere will judge you for how you look and how you sound. It's happened to me, and all of us I guess. Much as it nice if we could all move on I don't think it will never happen. I just hope the electorate will look past these distracting and irrelevant issues and elect the most competent person for the post.

Just wondering, if Obama wins, will anyone lose their faith in astrology? I haven't seen anyone on LL say they think he will win based on astrological factors, the opposite, in fact.

posted October 17, 2008 04:37 AM         

quote:

---

any ways...I am staying out of ideological arguments....especially racism. I already got slammed by a few people in lindaland for daring to discuss the realities of racism here in USA.

imho when it all comes down to, we are all equal to each other because all of us are human beings regardless of race,nationality,gender,sexual orientation,etc. I will die with that belief.

---

Mars in Aqua. Nicely matured vintage, a fine flavour.

I think if there is a Joker in the Pack that will swing things back to McCain I think maybe it is going to be a sudden event. Any Uranus influences around at the time?

Or that other classic, opinion polls being inaccurate.

posted October 17, 2008 10:06 AM         

Not me...I wouldn't lose faith in Astrology if Obama wins. I would be very happy if I was wrong about Obama.

Besides,I used Magi Astrology to predict a McCain win. That's an unconventional astrological system. My forte is with regular astrology..even with the use of midpoints and asteroids.

I don't even use Magi Astrology for natal analysis nor synastry. I only found a good use for it for political election charts. The financial astrological aspect of it seems very interesting.

If Obama wins, I would gladly give up Magi Astrology and just stick with regular Astrology for all things.

It's also possible that I could have overlooked some things in Magi Astrology, but I feel that McCain's 2 Super Cinderella Transits to Obama having not any Cinderella transits seems like a dominant Magi Astrology transit mismatch in McCain's favor.

The thing is that transiting Neptune is retrograde right now...the Election could swing McCain's way after Neptune goes direct day before the Election. Then transiting direct Neptune forms a Super Cinderella transit to McCain's Venus square Chiron and quincunxes Obama's Mars. There could be election fraud as well as many voters changing their minds at the actual voting polls with Mars square Neptune.

but yeah...I wouldn't lose faith in Astrology in general....just in Magi Astrology.

posted October 17, 2008 12:38 PM         

quote:

---

Just wondering, if Obama wins, will anyone lose their faith in astrology?

---

posted October 17, 2008 02:32 PM         

AG- I agree on historical significance. Hmm, assassination seems too much to me. There is way more anger against Bush. But, he has been fine

Enjoy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK1ekhovFeU

Mama - Aside astrology, yep, its all locked in. Amazing journey the man is making. I do feel though that Hillary would have made even bigger impact if she would have won. I wonder how many years we will wait for another qualified woman to run for president.

Glaucus - Thank you for your views. You are able to provide much deeper and fascinating answers. I am thinking of putting money into McCain. Ride through next three weeks.. The old man deserves atleast a jump from 15% chance to 25% chance with some small changes or mistakes that Obama could make as soon as we shift into next week. Well, 15 to 25% jump would be a very nice 70% return I hope I make it.

haybelly - lol.

katatonic - interesting and thought provoking views.. I will need to reread to write more to you.. but appreciate your taking open approach.

posted October 17, 2008 02:33 PM         

blue moon - Do you really think a president or cabinet can really can make an impact on economy. Up and Down cycles continue to come regardless of govt policies. Republican's Lower rates was indeed a policy that took us out of 2001/02 recession. And, Dow was at 14000 last year. Nobody gave credits to politicians or at that time!

Unmoved - Thinking that Obama's policies will benefit and increase quality of life is over optimistic view. We could very well go into deep depression regardless of party/president. Economic cycles always run through Ups and Down cycles. Creative destructions are part of Economies.

Deliverance - Thank you for your views. Enlightening they are.

Azul - LOL. Welcome to Earth

posted October 17, 2008 05:41 PM         

I was thinking more along the lines of what the candidates have to say about the tax that comes out of our salaries, the policies that dictate what they plan to spend it on, and the legislation they are going to introduce to help new enterprises, or can they at least try and be less obstructive.

That kind of thing.

Oh, and right now, our government (or the nation more correctly) also own about 50% shares in the bank with all my money in. "All" being a bit of a dramatic term in this case.

They can't be held responsible for the conduct of commercial enterprises such as South Sea Bubble Merchant Bank and Brothers. They just have to scoop up the mess they leave behind when it spreads in the paths of the General Public. They get to persaude us to vote for them by telling us how they are going to do this by shoring up the economy.

Moon Void of Course

Something Null and Void about the election?

Geocosmic Valentine, if I recall correctly, mentioned a forthcoming aspect indicating something embarrassing or shameful for the U.S as a country. I'm sorry, I can't remember exactly what she said. Apologies if I have misquoted her ~ I shall try and dig up her post if I have time.

posted October 17, 2008 09:21 PM         

I say that each individual should essentially think of how the proposed policies would benefit their lives and vote according to that. I think people must try to change what they can change even though some or both parties could be promising more than they should. If McCain's proposal makes your life better, regardless of the colour of his skin, vote for him. I can definitely see that race is hot news but black or white, you're an idiot if you vote due to race, personality or even their past. Yes. Look at what is said NOW and make sure they deliver.

Say I was a lower middleclass American, I'd ask myself whether McCain will allow for my standard of life to improve by voting for him. If it does, then he's the guy to vote for. That's why I don't see what race has to do with anything.

The fact is, regardless of the colour of my skin, if I pocket more financial freedom and if I feel that McCain will protect the security of my country, my neighbourhood, my home, and the security of the people in my home. Then, vote for him.

The upper middleclass and upperclass should vote for Obama if they feel that he will sustain their level of income but more importantly if Obama can create more opportunities for these people to expand their field of trade, making it easier for them to acquire more wealth, then Obama is your man.

This election is a battle of the classes, not races. Politicians don't care about you, you just happened to be on the side which also benefits them.

posted October 17, 2008 09:59 PM         

I know racism and prejudice, but regardless of that, I've chosen that the best way for me to win over it is by empowering myself, not these politicians who don't lose sleep over my struggles. Most governments are corrupt, black or white.

Yes. Someone is voting based on a person's color. I'm aware of this. Some poor person really thinks that a politician will solve all their problems. I'm aware that a politician can not change my life, I'm hoping though that the one who increases my chances of changing my life gets elected.

I know this is not the entire story but our currency in South Africa, before the new regime, was almost equal in value as England's then. When racism and oppression was decreased- it never left but it went underground- the election of Nelson Mandela as president crippled our economy, making it like Brazil today. But, he liberated the people of colour and created more opportunities for them. The economy suffered and it's still debated whether it was the aftermath from the corruption of the old government that caused the crash or whether it was the corruption of his own government that messed it up.

The truth is, and black people can be as angry as they like when I say, Nelson Mandela's regime is just as messed up as the oppressors. What makes it worse is that the color card is void now since blacks are now oppressing blacks.

posted October 17, 2008 10:42 PM         

In the old days, I was oppressed because of my race, regardless of my mix. I havefamily who are/were of English, Dutch, African and Eastern descent. Now, there's a box with OTHER which I can tick. There's no name for what I am. I was raised as Zulu, but I speak with an English accent. And, in South Africa, whether you're black or white, if you're born in South Africa, you are South African. And I will fight tooth and nail, defending a "white" friend being told she isn't African when she has Africa running through her like me.

Maybe my circle of friends and I are passed that stage and we are just trying to live. That goes back to my point-

While I still have the welfare of my family is my priority, I don't have the will to vote for people due to color. I will vote for the person who allows me to live another day. The only way to protect my loved ones is with money. My race or a polititician's race doesn't protect me. What the polititician does with my money, the opportunities the polititician opens for me and how the politician keeps my family safe is what will make me vote for him.

The race drama is doing exactly what it's meant to do. It's meant to distract you from looking at your rights and your freedoms which could be toyed with by the very same guy you're voting for.

I don't know. I feel that my personal life is more important than history being written so I'd try to make the racist people see that, more than anything. That's how I fight racism, by showing the person that I'm not the enemy nor the issue. I think that's more constructive than criticizing a racist.

posted October 18, 2008 01:24 PM         

i don't care what colour they are either but i do think obama being out there at all indicates a) that people of colour are more involved than usual this time round and b) that white people are not as racist as a lot of blacks like to think. i think obama will win because we need a democrat right now...so the ravages of the republican ethic can be clawed back.

i also think that regardless of the irrelevance of race in real terms, this country will get a good shot in the arm from making it official that a black man can hold the top job. the fact that he is far away the smarter candidate is why i will vote for him, but i am glad he had the balls to go for it in the first place! proves he's no moaning minnie and willing to face down the odds.

posted October 18, 2008 05:32 PM         

He very much deserves it and has shown that he will do whatever possible to make sure he gets what he deserves.

This is man who doesnt seem to care if he would be assasinated, should he get there (and even not) otherwise he wouldnt be running. Obviously he might not like it
but he has come a long way,, with nothing to lose. Pay attention people. They know he is better than most and you cant have the little person being better, can you?

Just because he seems different from the other candidates in times gone by is no reason to ignore what he has to offer.

Been there, done that, still doing it.