posted December 10, 2008 10:27 AM         

im definitely not how you described, i get along with adults as friends as much as people my age..

posted December 10, 2008 11:59 AM         

when i see them outside, in cafés or in the street, i actually find them respectful of others. some are obviously trying to exaggerate and impress but most are very careful of their impact on others. this is more obvious when they are treated with respect.

but in a school, i don't know how to deal with them. i've got no authority. may be they expect their teachers to be enlightened and anything less doesn't impress them. may be they actually need to realise that if their teachers are just normal, not-yet-enlightened beings it's ok. that could be useful for them in the future too. when they'll realise how much work they still have to do on themselves.

posted December 10, 2008 03:35 PM         

You say the things I really feel but dare not to say as it might offend someone.

I am just a wimpy pisces I worry too much about people liking me when I really want to be someone like Professor Snape.

posted December 10, 2008 03:44 PM         

It's just hard to impress us, I guess. We're not going to blindly follow what an authority figure has to say unless they earn our respect.

posted December 10, 2008 04:16 PM         

***too much TV and other technology
***lack of parenting skills - children having children
***rights taken away from parents - crime to smack
***morbidly obese children - too many, that's the crime!!!
***teacher-bashing in newspapers (in this country)

I know teaching has stresses and getting a smarty pants in the class makes you wonder if it's worth it.

Hang in there haybelly. Not everyone could do this job!!! You have amazing skills and talents that have kept you going for 16 years - Congratulations!!!!!

posted December 10, 2008 05:56 PM         

In a nutshell - what's wrong:
poverty
parents poorly educated
drugs
too much time not interacting with others
less responsibility
parents divorced
parents on drugs
parents not valuing education
parents not able to handle their own lives much less their kids
parents too young
drug babies
extecting something for nothing
arrogance at their own limitations
laziness
lack of exposure to life options
poor/low expectations by parents, themselves, teachers, society
A lack of willingness to work towards a better way
Trying to fit in and neglecting their own self improvement
materialism valued over people
poor nutrition
kid's left home alone
A lone mother unable to handle work, and homelife
No father
Poor values

The behavior is extreme. Part of it (most)has to do with poverty. Children in wealthier school districts behave better. At one point in time I was a sub at a middle to wealthy SES district (primarily white) and let me tell you - I walked into the room and I had their full attention and respect. I also was a sub at a lower middle class (racially 50/50) and the kids threw a jelly bean at me when I walked through the door. They were less trusting, poorly behaved and it took some time for them to accept me, but eventually they did. My regular teaching position -inner city and lower middle class suburban( a step up from the innercity) The kids were bad. Poverty not race is the biggest factor in poor behavior.

I also came in contact with thousands of kids and found that I could predict what type of behavior would come from certain types of kids. I eventually was able to quickly spot ADD by scanning the room. Strangely I was listening to Howard Stern one morning and he told of his experiences of growing up in inner city schools. He explained types of kids and how they behaved and which types you could rationalize with and not. I listened with my jaw to the floor because he was dead on! So some of it may be biological or the way that they are brought up. Some were drug babies.

If you get a chance to read the test scores published in the newspaper. Socioeconomic status is the absolute biggest factor in determining the success of a child - absolutely. The best districts are the wealthiest. I think wealthier people value education and are naturally open to learning. Poorer people are generally less educated and less willing to being open to making changes in their lives. They continue on with how they were raised and find it difficult to shifting their lives toward a new way of being. Wealthier people have a sense of expectancy and higher expectations. I recall a 16 year old boy putting together his resume. It seemed professionally done. He was debating on Yale. He had no limitations in and had high expectations. Poorer kids do not realize what is possible and tend to think of themselves higher that what they really are. They are self-contained with other poorer kids and do not realize that yes they got a "B" or an "A" but their grade is really more equivalent to a "C" at a different school district.

posted December 10, 2008 07:00 PM         

as for discipline it doesn't take a smack to bring a kid into line. my mother never even raised her voice, but she MADE US LISTEN!

while i have to agree that inner city schools are full of kids all but abandoned by their parents, and most will act out in such a case, it is by no means a GIVEN. single moms have raised plenty of great kids, and rich achievers plenty of wastrels!

i do agree that a parent's love is all important and all too many people have kids either mindlessly or selfishly. even rats do not thrive without adequate mothering! and it is made very difficult for single mothers to have time and energy left for their kids. i was one myself, and chose poverty over daycare, which was how i saw my choices at the time! but i have seen time and again that it is the love that matters, not the money or "belief in education" or values that match yours...i know people born to completely uneducated, uninterested (in education) families who went on to receive great educations and/or lives.

posted December 10, 2008 08:01 PM         

quote:

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Socioeconomic status is the absolute biggest factor in determining the success of a child - absolutely. The best districts are the wealthiest. I think wealthier people value education and are naturally open to learning. Poorer people are generally less educated and less willing to being open to making changes in their lives. They continue on with how they were raised and find it difficult to shifting their lives toward a new way of being. Wealthier people have a sense of expectancy and higher expectations

---

There is a big percentage of wealthy people that don't really value education and only they see it as a mean to impress. Occasionally it'a the people with limited options that cherish the notion of having the opportunity to improve their lives and their children's lives through higher education.

Two fine examples are Paris Hilton and Aristotle Onassis.

posted December 10, 2008 08:12 PM         

quote:

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stillatlarge: I graduated high school in 2006, and I was always respectful of my teachers (even when I thought they were idiots). Sweeping generalizations aren't cool. You aren't being "bluntly honest", you're being a blind fool.
It's just hard to impress us, I guess. We're not going to blindly follow what an authority figure has to say unless they earn our respect.

The teachers that got the most respect out of students were the ones who weren't afraid of us and were kind of dicks right back.

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posted December 10, 2008 08:26 PM         

and kat - yes poverty is a major factor. in fact the SCHOOLS in poor inner city districts are not up to scratch. no rich suburbanite would let their child go there.

posted December 11, 2008 02:59 AM         

quote:

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well dont the 1993-1994 kids have the jupiter in scopio conjunct pluto in scorpio my cousin does she was born in 1994 and she has the biggest attitude ever. plus i read somewhere that jupiter in scorpio is the bad girl bad boy placements and when conjunct pluto in scorpio wow that could be bad. maybe thats why kids in hisghschool are so out of control. i was in hisghschool last year and i saw the 1993 year kids who have jupiter and pluto in scoprio and they are the worst thing ever i wanted to kick all there ***** . i dont ever remeber being like that when i was in grade 9.

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What an interesting astro-observation, DepT.

If a teacher has a class full of people from a year where such a clash occured, it makes sense that she could come home feeling disillusioned after a bad day.

Some stuff on generations is on:
http://www.wstardesigns.com/Horoscopes/generations.html

quote:

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"The committed ones," 1988-1995 (Generation Y-b) (Uranus conjunct Neptune in Capricorn, Pluto in Scorpio) This is a group with outstanding potential. It is a very precocious generation, but won't burn itself out in youth. They are steady, persistent, determined, ambitious and passionate. They have great talent in the arts, politics and organization, and they may be the great leaders who lay down lasting foundations for a new age of civilization. On the other hand, some might consider them too cold, calculating, rigid, worldly or obsessed with their own goals.

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posted December 11, 2008 06:31 AM         

"unless they earn our respect."
Respect doesn`t have to be earned; it has to be given to EVERY person,just because she or he is a human being.

I`m not talking about appreciation; that one has to be earned. But to respect each other is a very basic requirement for any kind of interaction.

"The teachers that got the most respect out of students were the ones who weren't afraid of us and were kind of dicks right back."

So you`re saying you want to have a teacher who will establish an athmosphere of fear and rudeness?

On the subject:
I also notice those problems in daily interaction with pupils that you mentioned.
But I also want to mention that there are still pupils, who are very respectful towards teachers as well as their classmates.

It often works to make pupils aware of the fact that they are part of a social group and that teamwork is required so that everyone can reach their goals (usually moving to the next higher class).

But sometimes there are pupils, whose Ego`s are so inflated that they just don`t care if others will succeed or fail or if they generally feel uncomfortable.

posted December 11, 2008 09:18 AM         

I stand by my view, money is not the most important factor.

quote:

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That is the thing that really gets me upset. A lack of respect for other people (no matter if for teachers, parents or even other pupils).

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quote:

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"The benevolent entrepreneurs," 1984-88 (Generation Y-a) (Uranus in Sagittarius, Neptune in Capricorn, Pluto in Scorpio) This is a more ambitious and well-disciplined group. It will include many far-seeing and important leaders and entrepreneurs. Though most will probably be on the conservative side, many will organize great projects for the public benefit. They feel a great duty to society and Humanity.

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posted December 11, 2008 09:50 AM         

I expect my sons to be polite to the teacher and kind to the other children. This is not a matter for negotiation.

I also like to hear please and thank you if they ask for something in a shop. They will get prodded if they forget. I can manage it, so can they.