posted December 11, 2008 10:04 AM         

im disappointed people are picking and criticizing the "kids" and making it there fault.

the kids were given this world and society they didn't create it the way it is, so its not there fault.

its forces out of the younger generations control that molds them the way they are, i think its to do with the parents, media, education and other things i can't think of, off the top of my head. and yet all those 3 things have been molded by the previous generation too.

its unfair to compare todays kids with the kids from 20 or 30 years ago (some of you guys) society changed, and in the next 10 years, us kids (me) will be in your positions looking at how bad the "kids" are.

its always been getting worse in my eyes, its only that its got to a point where people are noticing it because its now a problem.

kids are not responsible for society or adults, its the other way round.

there are still good kids and young people out here, its just theres probably not as more as there used to be.

oh and how could i forget, money 1 of the reasons, money is the root of all evil, and inevitability, there is allways been things that people want, but need money for, its the root of a lot of crime, people being robbed, for - mobile phones, ipods, etc etc, or even killed for them (like how it is over here in the uk..)

20 years ago, these products werent half as big as they are now, and whats responsible for the exposure of wanting them? media.

thats my opinion, Do not flame me or try to convince me otherwise, just respect it, and agree or agree to disagree.

posted December 11, 2008 10:50 AM         

"But, like I say, it's not just kids lack basic manners. Some older people can be plain rude"
I absolutely agree. And it`s a shame, older people should be a good example for the youth.

Libralove,

"kids are not responsible for society or adults, its the other way round."
That is true. They are not responsible for the way society is now. Right.
BUT that doesn`t mean anyone should have to endure any kind of disrespect, neither from kids nor from their parents.

But I think it has to start with us adults, giving good examples; not just their parents, but all adults they have contact with.

And I think wè`d need to invest more time in those kids, show them we care for them, but also show them that there are rules and that if they break those rules, there will be consequences.

I`m not talking about putting up silly rules just to exert some kind of power over someone; I am talking of rules that make living and working together possible and relatively smoothly.

Example:
You have a class of 30 15 years old ones. Each of them has a goal, going to university maybe.
But some of them actually want to work for this goal, while others only want to have a "party-time". Now I agree there is a time and place for party-time. But it`s not in school during the lessons.

This needs to be such a rule: Behave in a way, that everyone would at least have the POSSIBILITY to learn and make the best out of themselves, and learn the things needed to reach good levels in the exam.

To reach that goal, there has to be a certain discipline in the classroom.
Us teachers are there to see that those rules are being followed, but the pupils also need to do their part. If they don`t, there have to be consequences.
And I think that is where the system breaks down easily. We are not consequent enough; neither individual teacher nor the principipal nor the government (who has advised us teachers that we MUST carry through every pupil, even if he hasn`t learned anything nor has shown any interest in doing so).

I really think that pupils and our generation, too, and everyone actually needs some values that are valid for everyone. Like respect for others.
And I feel that there is a lack of such common values.

posted December 11, 2008 11:13 AM         

simply trying to show another angle of the argument.

im sick of everyone here barking at the kids, what about me? does anyone here even know me? no, so its unfair to just label me a rotten apple before you even take a look at me.

i don't like it when people decide to look at a problem or situation from one view, or one angle, or be narrow minded about it.

theres always 2 sides to an argument they say, but theres actually always more.

one of the worlds biggest ill's is everyones lack of understanding for eachother - people only understand them selfs based on there own situation and how life has them.

posted December 11, 2008 11:44 AM         

I think you`re absolutely right. There are always more sides to consider.
And it`s not an easy problem with an easy solution; there are many factors weighing in.

AND of course we shouldn`t generalize.
After all we are dealing with INDIVIDUALS.

But some of us have noticed a certain trend and just describing that trend.
That doesn`t mean that there aren`t other people who are different.

AS I said in my first post there are still kids who are very respectful, polite and social towards others, and I don`t only respect them, but APPRECIATE this kind of behaviour very much.

But on a daily basis it`s really difficult to deal with children who don`t respect anyone, not even their parents or their friends.

posted December 11, 2008 12:08 PM         

get rid of silly things that can be done outside school like physical education.

posted December 11, 2008 12:19 PM         

Who do they think they are not to raise a bunch of ass kissing robots that blindly do as they are told. How dare these lying rotten kids to have opinions! Huh.

Do you guys even like people at all?

my generation - these dam kids and thier rock and roll, long hair, tight jeans

my moms generation- these kids - teased hair, did you see that elvis dancing? ye gads?

my grandparents - look at those kids, smoking and those girls actually wearing pants? geez.

my kids- pull your pants up son, I am sick of looking at your boxers.

see a theme? nothing new under the sun.

posted December 11, 2008 12:27 PM         

Now class.........

I teach because for the most part it is rewarding. There are some bad apples that do ruin the class for those trying to learn. I am not in it for the money, I work in the poorest school district in the 3rd poorest paying state in the nation, I actually have 3 jobs and my husband has 2. I have empathy for the kids and they know I care, the good ones will stand up to the bad ones for me.

I think I hate lying more than anything, especially when I catch students in the act and they try to lie their way out of it and their parents beleive them over a teacher. That is frustrating. Not everyone is like that, I know. Make sure you walk a mile in someone's shoes before saying something. I would never judge another person's career if I did not work in that profession.

posted December 11, 2008 12:33 PM         

"
On the parents, they all must just be horrible, single parents, drugs, bad nurtition, violence on tv....geeshkas."
"I never said that.

"How dare these lying rotton kids to have opinions! Huh."
I never said kids were either "lying" nor "rotten". I also didn`t say they should not be allowed to have an opinion.
I do appreciate it, if people have their opinions, as long as they respect and value other`s opinion, too.

"Try actually LISTENING to what they are saying."
I do. That`s where I started forming MY opinion on INDIVIDUAL beings.
For example: I listened very closely when one pupil said he didn`t want to join the school in a charity walk (we were collecting money for kids in Cairo so they could actually go to school and have a warm lunch a day and we also collected money for our school, so our kids could work with a computer instead of always having to look at the billboard).
Well, that boy didn`t want to join us in that walk, and his reasoning about this was: "Why should I do something for other kids? What does their lives have to do with me? I don`t care about them. There`s nothing in it for ME, so I will not walk."
His parents agreed with him on that matter. Why should their son be collecting money for someone else?

It`s an opinion you can have, sure, but I am allowed to have an opinion on that, too.

posted December 11, 2008 12:35 PM         

The greatest motivation for a baby/child is to impress daddy.
The hurt felt at being ignored by dad probably manifests as rudeness to authority figures later on.

posted December 11, 2008 12:44 PM         

I thought you loved kids haybelly.

gees, someone so evolved still name calling and looking down a pointed nose pointing fingers in every direction.

kids are people.

those post made me think wow, a self inflated ego who only feels good about themself when they are putting others down, how nice. again, kids are people.

and then some peole actually posted, they should be beat? (thats what corporal punishment is right?) wtf.

It wasn't as much your comments. we invest in our future, we invest in our 401k, invest in our kids! Noboby ever got to the top of anything being held down and talked to like that (you are an idiot and thats what you will evermore be), a hand up and a sense of actually making a difference in one life would sure gain more of my respect.

I am not talking about you haybelly, because I do think you try.

posted December 11, 2008 12:48 PM         

YOu actually used the word individuals.

That is a good word.

posted December 11, 2008 01:11 PM         

I think I may have accidentally (or subconsciously intentionally?) skipped that post you quoted. That is really a horrible thing to say. I agree.

I stand by what I said (and I think we agree on this); we are talking about individuals, and there are good ones and bad ones in every generation (even though what is good or bad may differ according to the speaker`s perspective).

posted December 11, 2008 01:26 PM         

I pointed out the two posts that I thought were just outrageous. It really hurts me, in a way, that someone would talk that way to anyone. Even thoguh it is just a group of people unknown to each other, talking about topics they may find interesting. We do build relationships over time. Some that matter to us.

I wouldn't like to see anybody talked to like that. anybody. Whether they live in a trailer or a palace. It is just mean.

violence begets violence, so beating them teaches them what?

consequences for wrong doings, oh yes, but how can we teach them a standard we can't adhere to.

manners
non violence
tolerance
patience
compassion
empathy

we can not pass on to others what we do not posess ourselves.

and what is salon hair stupid?

where does a smart person get their hair cut? ace hardware?

posted December 11, 2008 02:07 PM         

quote:

---

I rest my case. I said nothing about authority figures whatsoever. And dream on. Nobody cares if you're impressed. I said you're idiots. Stupid as stumps. Not the innocent youthful kind of stupid. Terminal stupid. Trailer trash with dental work and salon hair stupid. Moronic. Embicilic. Dumb as dirt. Insensitive, vapid, dense,sociopathic, and irredeemable.
This is not the usual cocky, know-it-all, angst of youth stuff that all our parents used to shake their head over.

---

quote:

---

The teachers that got the most respect out of students were the ones who weren't afraid of us and were kind of dicks right back.

---

posted December 11, 2008 03:42 PM         

Teachers should also be better compensated and have on going pertinent education to maintian fresh perspectives, less burnout and new techniques, annual credentailing, inservicing and such.

People who work with kids have a very important job and with large class sizes and stringent cirriculum and mandates in place, sometimes connecting with each child is not possible and kids that fall behind never really catch up without individual guidance. The no child left behind thing doesn't get it, those kids do not have the option of formal higher eduation if they receive a certifiacate instead of a diploma.

posted December 11, 2008 03:50 PM         

well, might as well beat old people too, so maybe when you are old and don't want to go to bed when you are told, WHAP! upside the head! Right? I mean if we want to beat the kids, we should make it fair and beat the old people too right?

while we are at it, lets beat the handicap, they just don't listen so good either.

or maybe when you step out of line your husband should beat you...no?

well, if teachers should be allowed to beat children I don't see why not.

matter of fact lets just beat up everybody that doesn't do what we want them to.

Does anyone see why I got so angry at this thread and the opinions expressed?