posted June 20, 2004 10:59 PM         

Libra mentally bends itself around a problem, whereas Cancer is determined to follow through. You may not be "clingy" as convention describes Cancerian influences, you may just be determined to follow through on the relationship by being there, wheras the Libra sun friend could want to thrash things out mentally and that has to be done on his own.

Unfortunately for me, My Libra had a Gemini moon and so he always needed to think things out but had to have people around all the time, making it very difficult for us.

But Libras who do not have Cancer moons are much more indecisive about love, and emotions.
I know you are a Libra sun and so you feel in tune that way but from your posts I would say you are more Cancer moon than Libra Sun. Probably the water influence is strong due to your Mars.

It's good your friend has an earth moon, but he still pursued you and that's very Libra male, and then backed off a bit. It's in the backing off period that you have an opportunity to think about things too, decide if it's right for you instead of just okay.

Are you going to be okay with indecisive-ness, when your Cancer moon wants some balance? It doesn't sound like he is not as balanced and practical as you and so your moods may end up moving to accomodate.

You are a very practical and balanced woman, whether you believe it or not, is this going to make you happy? (the ultimate goal).

I am going to be honest, the Gemini makes me deliriously happy I know that I need space at some point, and he won't know when. It's good to plan ahead to take a break from each other to decide if the big picture makes sense still, especially with an air sun sign male. Air sun sign males are not alway clear about what's needed.

posted June 20, 2004 11:46 PM         

Today has been weird when it comes to matters of the heart, and I think I can blame it all on guys with Mars in Cancer because that's what Taurus guy and Libra guy have in common - and maybe you'll remember - as soon as I got together with Libra, Taurus tries to call me out of the blue, but I didn't answer the phone.

Months later, as soon as Libra and I slow things down a bit, and basically separate for a while, Taurus guy pops out from no where again, calling me. It's like they are actually karmically tied to each other!

It's forcing me to really examine what I want, as well as how far I've come. There's no way I'm getting back with Taurus. And I'm prepared to move on without Libra if that's how the cookie crumbles. I've played out my part. Ball in his court.

I appreciate your take on Libra guy, been checking back to this thread compulsively in hopes of finding a response from someone who's willing to indulge. Intuitively, I know the time for he and I is good, and I know at least one of the reasons why. He is not happy with with where he is financially, and he's careful not to drag me in and his stress cause us problems to where we lose our friendship, and maybe more.

We talked about this too, and it's what he said, but I already knew. In fact, he went out of his way to tell me he really misses me when we are apart, and it has everything to do with this, that's it's not me at all. Totally made sure to assure me of that, and I believe him because he's not going to BS me.

He's going to see another side of me now, the strong disciplined side when it comes to devotion. He was happy that I had gotten back in touch with him in March, and I'll be happy if he gets back in touch with me, when life says the timing is right, if at all. I have great faith things will work out for the best, and his faith is very strong as well, if you know what I mean.

posted June 21, 2004 03:51 AM         

You remind me of myself, in the way that you have a never ending fascination of how astrology is at work in people's lives. We just can't get enough info.

Something struck me in your last post. Both Libra and Taurus guys have Mars in Cancer.
I thought to myself, I think Mars is in "Fall" in Cancer. I was right, it is.

I don't know if you know anything about "Planetary Dignities", but I'm sure you will find it interesting if you don't already. It is a very important table to memorize when studying astrology.
As you know, each Planet has a Ruler. Sun - Leo, Moon - Cancer and so on. Each planet also has a sign in it's Detriment, Exaltation, and Fall.

In some signs the power of energy we call a planet is able to project itself without any hindrance for it is fuctioning in a field harmonious to its own nature. In other signs a planetary energy is blocked by being in a sign not compatible to its nature and its full expression is hindered.

You will find the ability to judge the power of a planet very nessasary in interpreting charts.
Like for example I believe you have the Moon in Cancer - the planet (moon) is in the sign it rules (cancer). It is said to be "dignified" there because it is powerful in its own sign, it can express itself freely.

Planets in signs opposite to their Exaltation are in the sign of their Fall. It brings disappointment to the concerns of the planet and to a certain degree to the house in which it falls.

I won't go on and on about the definitions of the Planetary Dignities, you probably already know a little (or alot) about them.

But I did want to let you know what I found out about this Mars in Cancer 'Fall'.

"Mars in Cancer is shorn of strength where aggressiveness and combativeness are concerned. They are anemic psychologically as well as physically. They would rather run than fight and need to learn to face life with courage. Running away from conflict does not erase it. It is the postponement of an issue that must be faced later. Mars in Cancer is very sensitive. Over-emotional. There are difficulties with digestion due to emotions. Strife in home conditions. Ambitious and hard workers, but changable. Holds everything in and steams inside."

If I'm correct about your Moon in Cancer, I also find it interesting that both of these guys have their Mars in Cancer.
Your Moon being very at home in that sign, and their Mars' not. Maybe you somehow help them understand / become more comfortable with this aspect of their nature. Besides the fact that Moon - Mars aspects between the sexes are potent connections.

Hope you found these astrological nuggets interesting / helpful, or at least food for thought.

Stay positive, and keep the faith.

posted June 21, 2004 04:14 AM         

Of COURSE I found it interesting and helpful. Yes, I do know about the Dignities, although it's usually not the first thing I concentrate on. I kind of know it's there, but I don't like to tackle it head-on yet.

You're right about my Cancer Moon playing a part in this attraction, no doubt, because the guy I dated BEFORE Taurus guy ALSO had Mars in Cancer. So it's THREE GUYS IN A ROW with this placement, and I'm swearing never again, especially if things turn out bad this time around.

I do think my Moon is able to read into their true motivations, which normally, no one else is able to do because the Mars in Cancer is good at hiding/disguising them. As I expressed before somewhere, they like to throw out stuff at you just to test your reaction, although it may seem it has nothing to do with anything, rather than ask you a direct question. I guess between my Moon & my three Scorpio planets, I'm able to call them on it, which if I'm not careful, causes them to retreat even further. Even if done carefully, they never fully feel comfortable with you knowing and it may even make them angry.

It's the ONLY time I've EVER tolerated such indirectness from guys. But I make it into a little game, and I never betray them by using the information against them. I've made it into a fun little game of "hide & seek", and when I "find them out", I don't always let them know I know. This drives them crazy.

posted June 21, 2004 08:28 AM         

I would forget about the Taurus if as you said, it's over..too easy to analyze and backslide for us Cancer moons.

What I am curious about is the house that the mars is in, what does it say about shortcomings? I am guessing if it's in the 9th then he would be attracted to Sag people, and if it's in the 7th then he would be attracted to Libras? But confrontation is not his style meaning commitment?

Isn't commitment just finding someone who you can lean on? and if you can't lean on that person what's the point? Is it goals and values in mind? and if it is about shared values, where are the values of a mars in cancer? caring and nurturing? and what if you, yourself are looking for someone to lean on? I find it very difficult to be fascinated with mars in cancer anymore and I am glad, only I see how I become infatuated easily with those who are lacking what I have.

The challenge for a strong woman is to NOT find a man who finds you tough and strong, you want to be vulnerable and feminine Gloria. So you must find a man who is stronger psychologically than you, one who is not looking for you, you have to find him. What does this add up to? The same thing for me, two little words for you:

Date Around,
he doesn't need to know that you are dating around because you need to sort your feelings with other people. Write down all your feelings, sort them out, logically.

Self determination is what Cancer moons are good at, do not bend your will, values and goals to another, or you will find yourself bending to someone who has no values which is very frustrating. Self determination, ambition, follow through, these are Cancer traits.

If Mars in Cancer does not have these things, then they make better friends for you, than lovers. Guilt and Compassion are key words for Cancer , don't confuse that with Love.

The question is how are you going to confront you fear of being the tough one, the one that puts up with all the BS?

Are you looking for someone stronger than yourself, a God to make you perfect your own goals? Or are you looking for someone to lean on you? There is no balance for you, it's all or nothing, you give and give yourself away.

How are you going to confront those fears? You are good at confrontation

posted June 21, 2004 12:41 PM         

Thank you so very much for helping me along. If miss me they must, then miss me they will ...

Natasha -

As always, thank you for your Cancer Moon insight. You brought up some excellent points, and I know you are definately watching my back.

I know what you mean about strong women needing to be feminine. That's why you've seen me be sarcastic about "armchair feminists"... I think all that propaganda about "having it all" (the myth) got to me when I was quite young, and I was pushed and pushed to be that way. I've said so many times that all my life, I've been going against the grain. But in later life, it's become difficult to allow myself to JUST BE. The progress I've been making the last year, and especially the last few months has been good. I can be a lazy azzhole if that's who I am!

I've thought for many years one of the reasons why I've not had luck in romance is because I seem to have it all, and have it all together. Guys can NEVER believe I don't have a boyfriend or never been married.

As for the House placements for those Mars in Cancer's, Taurus' is in his 11th and in my 2nd. My Moon is in my 3rd House, and in Taurus' 11th.

Libra's is in his 7th, exactly Conjunct my Moon (in his 7th). Earlier I had posted that our respective Moons were in each other's 8th, but for some reason, astro.com has moved the positions of a couple of Houses in our Synastry. Weird, but it only changed a few things. My Moon is in his 7th, his Moon is in my 8th.

Maybe it helps to know their Pallas' since it represents "battle style". Taurus' is in Aqua in his 6th.

Libra's is in Libra in his 9th. And as for his possible attraction to Sag's, I've kept that in the back of my mind from the start, since he has his Sun, Merc, Venus, Pluto, Pallas in his 9th, and Neptune & Juno in Sag. But my Sun is in his 9th too...

My Mars is in Scorpio in my 6th, my Pallas in Pisces in my 10th.

Thanks you guys, for your continued help. It's very much appreciated.

posted June 21, 2004 07:55 PM         

Mars in the 7th is a very sweet position, it gives you the gift of gab,

posted June 21, 2004 08:17 PM         

Libra has no planets in his 6th. My Vesta in Gemini is in his 6th.

Ruler of his 6th House is Mercury, his Mercury in Libra in the 9th.

GIFT OF GAB YOU SAY? Don't I KNOW it. Un-f'g-believable!!

posted June 21, 2004 08:34 PM         

Mercury in Libra? That's a good conjunction, I hope it's working for you, the financial thing could be a case of too much honesty. How bad is it really, do you know?

posted June 21, 2004 11:33 PM         

I read up on the Moon in the 6th, and now I see why you said it would not be easy for me. One of the aspects we have came down to always feeling like warmth was lacking, and that's how it was. Plus that Aqua Moon, and Mercury in Gemini.

Well, enough of him. He's trying to wedge his way back in my life. I'm almost 100% sure that what I predicted to you guys a long time ago, regarding him and the Pisces, came to pass... he totally sounded like a wounded animal... case closed.

Back to Libra guy, he's got Sun & Merc Conjunct in Libra. Plus a TON of aspects which illuminate his Mercury even more, in positive ways.

As for his financial situation... let me put it this way. Think about his Singleton Cappy Moon in his 1st House, and that will say it all. He's very close to his family and cares about them very much, makes sure everyone is OK financially too, which would include his mother & his young daughter (she's adorable).

When I saw him in March for the first time in a while, and we talked and talked for hours, I told him right away that I could sense that something was weighing very heavy on him. And when I said that, his head like snapped up and he looked at me like "how did you know?" Cause he's the one in control and in charge w/ the Mars in Cancer to boot, right?

I mean, it was just saturating his aura.

He spoke very briefly about needing to hire an attorney. The way it went in the conversation sounded like it had something to do with his daughter, and/or his daughter's mother (he's never been married), and he kind of waived it off like he didn't want to get into it. I'm the type who doesn't press and I respect people's privacy a great deal, and I trust his reasons for not bogging me with details.

So he's been taking care of his own needs as an independent guy, his family's needs, and trying to save a few thousand dollars for an attorney all at the same time. He's been good at controlling his inevitable irratability in front of me, but I can still sense it. That's why the last time I saw him, I said to him, "You want things to go smoothly, and you want me to be ok," and he nodded glad I understood what was happening. Right now, he feels he's incapable of treating me the way I deserve to be treated. He feels it wouldn't be fair for me to hang in there with him right now, even though he knows I would. He knows he cannot make things go smoothly, AND for me to be ok, at the same time.

His MC is Conjunct his Sun as well. His Merc, Venus, NN & Pallas are also in Libra, w/his Vesta conjunct my Sun. His Par Fortune is in Pisces in his 2nd House and in MY 10th. His Par is Conjunct my Chiron, which is in my 10th and in HIS 2nd.

His Saturn is in Leo in his 8th, Conjunct my Uranus & NN.

Maybe that info helps...

posted June 22, 2004 01:08 PM         

Maybe he is too honest with others in his life too, and too open, if that's the case then he needs to retreat and think about things for a while. With mercury in libra he does not do that as much as he would like. He could be taking care of things he doesn't need to, that's all. His mars is not optimal for finances, and the moon in the 1st is not either, it's impulsive. And plus he has added reponsibilities.

Moon in the 1st and Mars in the 7th makes it difficult for him to break away from his family, financially. They will always have a huge part of him, about 3/4 of him. How does that feel? Do you get along with his family? Do you feel it's strange or do you relate?

That Taurus! Amazing how you can see things coming. He sounds very insecure.

posted June 22, 2004 01:18 PM         

Since his Cancer is in detriment, this tendency is even more pronounced. It's vital that you read up on the 7th house, and how it affects Mars. Without harmony, marriage, partnership in his life he will always feel at odds with himself, but this harmony has to come from outside. Possibly you see yourself as that missing piece of the puzzle, but Cancer moon is not optimal for Mars in the 7th because the Cancer already feels part of a family, and does not have a need to be respected by one, you will not be able to fill that need and you need to be respected by him.

I recommend spending time away from his family, not being with them, even if it means not discussing the various members as hard as that is. It will only cause more hardship.

That's what I see, you may end trying to create a peaceful place for him, emotionally but you can't do that. he has to learn how to do that himself, if you ever marry he will have to do the household organizing, decisions will have to be made by him to encourage his masculine energy.

He will decide where you live, what you purchase and how the household will be run. This may be counter to what you believe but he is insecure in this way, setting up a household and running it without help, interference or someone to lean on is vital. In fact he needs more of a push than someone to lean on.

The conflict is that Cancer needs to nurture, and you can only do that emotionally. Mentally, he needs to work on himself, and get in touch with his masculine energy. You can't always help, and if you are living together it may mean you have to spend time alone without him, while he works on himself, or at least does things for himself. You may want to cook for example, but must make an effort to allow him to order in, to take charge.

He needs to feel like the man.

I don't see this as a problem except if you live together then it may be tough. However, if you are married and living together it will be easier for him to handle because he will actually feel less dominated, since he will have a place and position as husband in the household. He really needs to be secure in a position in a household.

Do you think if he asked you to marry him you would say yes in a heartbeat? He won't ask until you do feel that way since he is afraid of being rejected in a serious moment. You may have to urge him on or even ask him, but you must be ready to live with him.

That's the tough part.

posted June 22, 2004 03:47 PM         

Thank you so much for taking the time.

So much of what you said is so insightful, you really amaze me sometimes. It's true Libra guy needs to solve all this on his own, and that's one of the things I sensed, as I very gently tried to make things better for him. Most guys I've been that way with just drink it in for all it's worth. But Libra cut me off at the pass relatively quickly. In a gentle way, telling me that if he's having a bad day, there's no woman in the world who can make it better, it won't change the fact he's having a bad day.

He amazes me.

I just think the fact we've known each other as friends for so long makes it so much easier to understand each other, because he'd always say to me, "You don't have a boyfriend? What's the MATTER with guys!!"

And so he already knew a little bit about how I am in relationships, and he's been very conscious of never mistreating me in any way, even if he knows it would be all to easy to take advantage.

To this extent, I've known that he needs to feel like he's doing something important, and I'd be the last one to take that from him because it's when he's his best. Like I said a while ago, I'm concerned with how he's investing his time, and that's what you reiterated to me just now.

As for dealing with his family, I'm only concerned with anything taxing to himself which would affect his health. I think he's realized he needs to move on.

Regarding this that you wrote:::

"...Cancer moon is not optimal for Mars in the 7th because the Cancer already feels part of a family, and does not have a need to be respected by one, you will not be able to fill that need and you need to be respected by him..."

Remember when in the past I've brought up the fact that my 4th House has always been cursed? I'm literally divorced from my entire family. All my life I've looked for my surrogate family. So in regards to HIS family, I'm not that typical Cancer Moon who feels she already has that family.

I read these two things about Mars in the 7th, and now I see what you mean even more. Such a good thing for me to keep in mind - and between this & his Cappy Moon, just contributes to my swooning Virgo influences, if you know what I mean.:::

"Mars in 7th House

Native would make a good general, leading successful military campaigns in later years. There is a decidedly competitive tone as even under the best of circumstances this tends to produce rivalry and one-upsmanship."

AND

"Gives an active, aggressive partner. Watch out for arguments. As long as they have plenty to do, everything tends to be fine. It they get bored, well, Mars will create a diversion. Conversely, you yourself may become more active and aggressive after marriage."

As far as if I see myself filling that place in his life, I really do feel we would be just about perfect for each other. But I'm not going to wait for him, I'm not, and he'd be very angry if he thought I was. I know he's doing his best, and needless to say, my absence may be providing him a certain motivation which works for him.

posted June 22, 2004 07:11 PM         

Just keep it mind because you do have Mars in Scorpio and a strong presence. You won't be able to control his insecurities. His work or what ever contributes to his self esteem has to be all consuming, Mars in 7th needs that. If his work suffers he will be a moody mate.

Honestly, I would hold from living together for at least a year,

posted June 22, 2004 07:29 PM         

But he knows that I don't want to make anything more difficult for him, and he's the type that if you do right by him, he rewards you tenfold.

I've never really thought of myself as being "single" and fully living with him, or marrying him, either way we're sure to give each other space.

But for now, I've got to look forward and think about the next step in my life. As far as I'm concerned, it's over unless or until he gets back to me. This decision feels right to me and I have no regrets because I know we did the best we could. But I really really doubt I'll have any desire to have sex with anyone else for a VERY long time.

I'll just regret if we lose our friendship because of this. Before we separated, I gently tried to tell him we can get through it while still seeing each other. But he was convinced it couldn't be done. So if I do talk to him again, he's gonna get his azz whipped over that, for not trusting me.

posted June 22, 2004 08:53 PM         

My opinion stands on the Taurus,
There's a Brazilian music festival going on tonight, there are lots of dance partners out there,
and you have to go with the music,

posted June 22, 2004 09:23 PM         

You know?

Like with Taurus, back then when I told you guys, I just know this Pisces girl is sneaky and dishonest, and that she's going to hurt him, but maybe he needs that karmically. So I let him go, and sure enough, he's back with all his scrapes and bruises.

Same with Libra guy. I KNOW he's hurting right now. Not from another woman (necessarily), but just feels compelled to fall on his face on his own, clearing me away so there's nothing he can blame me for.

And I know guys are not the only ones who do this. I've done the same on MANY occasions. There's a few things I share with men. I don't like to stop and ask for directions, I don't like to read instructions, and I like Andrew Dice Clay.

Maybe this is why I've been destined to hook up with rough & tumble kind of guys. The eccentric complicated guys. There's some things no one else but me has been able to beat them at, in a psychic warrior kind of way.

But as you knew me back when, so I am now. Nothing has changed! I'm sleeping alone again. %&%$#!@!!!

posted June 24, 2004 06:24 PM         

I miss him!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every cell in my body misses him.

[I'm not going to call]
[I'm not going to call]
[I'm not going to call]
[I'm not going to call]

posted June 25, 2004 06:35 PM         

I'm holding on for dear life... (I wonder if he is too...)

posted June 27, 2004 06:23 PM         

It sounds like your relationship is going through a change right now, what are your expectations? Have you made them clear to him? What does he expect from you right now?

In any case I hope that you haven't given up on dating others because I know that you are very unique, plus he may need to be left alone for a while, or quite a while.

Not that I'm advocating leaving him, not that I'm doing that, I am only saying check out your expectations in the world right now, and see where your source of strength comes from.