posted February 24, 2005 01:48 AM         

I guess I should start at the beginning. It all started about 4 years ago. I was not looking for a relationship at the time, at least not with anyone outside of this sexy Scorpio who had pursued me for a long time and given up & moved on, just as I'd warmed up to the idea of a relationship with him. I then met this adorable Pisces at college and we hit it off. We had an instant rapport (it was like we'd always known each other), and though I didn't realize it at the time, he saw the potential for much more. Despite the advice of a mutual friend (who warned him that I wasn't looking for a relationship), he asked me out (i turned him down, but continued to be friendly), and he continued to be there for me in other ways, like supporting me through some very rough times in my life. My feelings for him grew over time, and a few months down the road, we'd fallen hard for each other, without ever having officially dated! He's the sweetest, most thoughtful guy I've ever met. However, my family foresaw problems if we ever got together - our religious & cultural differences were sure to break us up, if not now, then much further down the road, they said. Some of what they said got to me, and I conveyed to him that I couldn't pursue it. He kept convincing me that we would last and that we could work out any potential problems, despite the multiple times I decided that I couldn't and wouldn't see him. He'd be miserable without me, and I'd realize that I was also miserable without him. Every time, after keeping my distance for a while, I'd call him, just to stay friends at least, as I told myself, but we'd end up back in the same place: falling for each other all over again. In the meantime, I'd go on these blind dates courtesy: the family or well-meaning friends, a la 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding'. I always found reasons to reject them, and continued with my Pisces, and we spent some very happy times together, when we were together, and i wasn't consumed by qualms about keeping it from the family, or worries about our future.

A year and half ago, on one of the breaks, I met a Scorpio. He seemed nice enough to me, and try as I did, I found no big reason to reject him, or our budding long-distance relationship. My family loved him, and his loved me.. and I ended up getting engaged to him quite willingly. He too said he loved me, and couldn't wait to be married. After the engagement, however, doubts started to creep in. Most notably, there was the one that my Pisces love from college brought up -what if we'd been soulmates, and i'd thrown it all away? As if it weren't hard enough, i saw the Pisces on a daily basis at school (we weren't speaking then), and his obvious pain tore at me. Unlike a happy bride-to-be, I hesitated to wear my ring in front of him, or even sound happy. My heart was bleeding too, and I realized I had to talk to him, if only to get closure for him and for me. We both decided to do that as adults, and started talking again. The inevitable happened - we fell in love with each other all over again. By this time, I was frantic to cancel the engagement and my main concern was to make sure it was ok with my parents first (I tell you, I must have a horribly afflicted chart). Cancelling the wedding did not go over well with them, and they kept trying to talk me into staying with it. By then, it got too late to cancel the wedding and still make it out unscathed. I was unable to stop it from happening, much to my dismay. The unthinkable happened- I ended up getting married anyway and went through the motions like i was in a trance. Again, once I returned from the wedding, and saw my Piscean love, my facade crumbled, and I was plunged in deep heart-wrenching misery.

In desperation, I prayed for guidance, and got the answer that I should move in with the Scorpio, and that from there on, things would get clearer as to what I must do. So, I moved in with him, and decided to give the marriage a chance, and if it didn't work out, then I'd be fully justified in ending it and moving on. I've had a very tough few months here.. the Scorpio's turned out to be a very selfish, self-absorbed, dishonest man, an utter disappointment. In all ways, he's the opposite of the Pisces I lost. He puts very little into the marriage, which has turned out to be a real farce. I've also come to realize that I cannot live with this, that I could never get used to it and settle for anything less than the kind of love and connection I had shared with the Pisces. So, I'm contemplating the next course of action; getting it annulled.

I've also been getting these 'signs' that keep pointing to the Pisces, and vivid dreams about him. I have the strongest feeling that once I'm out of this farce of a marriage, that he and i will be united once again. Then, I get very scared... I wonder if I'm throwing away a marriage that could've been something if only I'd been in the right frame of mind, and if i were to stay and work on it. Am I subconsciously sabotaging my future by being stuck on the past?

I also wonder why I'm still being drawn to the Pisces, even if it is in my dreams, why I can't ever forget him and move on, and why he can't let go of me and move on either; do we have some karmic connection (is that what a "silver cord" is?) that's keeping us together? Is he my soulmate? Are we fated to be together again in this life?

posted February 24, 2005 02:01 AM         

House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Sagittarius 07°37'32
2nd House Capricorn 06°21'34
3rd House Aquarius 06°17'35
Imum Coeli Pisces 08°09'24
5th House Aries 10°24'34
6th House Taurus 10°26'15
Descendant Gemini 07°37'32
8th House Cancer 06°21'34
9th House Leo 06°17'35
Medium Coeli Virgo 08°09'24
11th House Libra 10°24'34
12th House Scorpio 10°26'15
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pisces ex' chart:
born on 13 March 1979 local time 2:30am
in Richland, WA (US) U.T. 10:30
119w17, 46n17 sid. time 13:54:43
Planetary positions
Sun Pisces 22°15'06 02 direct
Moon Virgo 17°18'24 08 direct
Mercury Aries 08°20'03 03 direct
Venus Aquarius 11°23'10 01 direct
Mars Pisces 10°42'45 02 direct
Jupiter Cancer 29°15'37 07 retrograde
Saturn Virgo 09°37'12 08 retrograde
Uranus Scorpio 20°52'21 10 retrograde
Neptune Sagittarius 20°28'12 12 direct
Pluto Libra 18°32'36 09 retrograde
True Node Virgo 17°30'18 08 direct

posted February 24, 2005 02:51 AM         

That's quite something that you could see all those aspects at a glance! When I had looked at a detailed version, I saw that he and I have aspects with the Vertex, Psyche and Cupido... do these mean anything? If i'm not mistaken, my Venus is conjunct his South Node, his South Node is conjunct my Chiron, and both our North Nodes conjunct each other's MCs. Do these indicate future ties for our relationship?

posted February 25, 2005 02:22 PM         

Almost every night, I have such vivid dreams of him; in the daytime, i keep hearing "our" songs on the radio/TV, and several other synchronous events keep pointing him out to me. I guess that's why I'm wanting to know if we have strong future ties. If anyone could tell me how to figure that out, I'd be so grateful!!

posted February 25, 2005 02:36 PM         

Thatīs a very sad story... I know how much pressure a family can put on someone... I know traditional Indian culture is much more strict that Spanish culture, a lot more... I lived in the UK for 4 years and was in touch with it... But in a smaller degree, we also have a strong family tradition and what your parents and relatives think of your choice of a partner is very important... My dad is especially snobbish regarding to that and since I was very young I was always weary of getting a boyfriend my dad wouldnīt approve... At one point, I almost become another snob, rejecting men just because their academic level or social status was less than mine... Just because my family would not approve... They never got to know anything about my love life because of that, I kept it secret...

When I went to live abroad, I started a relationship with a british man. Of course, they didnīt get to know. It was bad enough because he was foreign. But in addition to that, he was much older than me, divorced and had a child. They probably will never know now that is over. They would have suffered a lot and it was unnecesary pain. But I just didnīt say anything because we didnīt have a future. He didnīt believe in us and I didnīt want to stay with him either.

If one day I have an opportunity with my Arian, I donīt care what they think. He is Spanish, that will do with my mother. But my dad may not like him because he didnīt go to Uni. However, Iīm not 18 anymore. They wonīt intimidate me if my happiness is at risk. At the end of the day it is my life.

The same to you. Listen to your heart. You know inside yourself... And if you make a mistake, life is for making mistakes. How else will you learn?

I had a look to your charts... And... What is surprising is the Scorpio (your husband) has a better chance with you astrologically I would say... Yes, the Pisces may flow with you, with many trines and conjunctions but... For marriage, the other one may stand a better chance (as it has been proven)...

Iīm learning Magi Astrology. I think this discipline is very fascinating... But Iīm not an expert. I donīt even have the software... I just know the basics... But beware this...

Chiron is the most important planet regarding marriage. Then Venus and Neptune for long term romances. Jupiter for success...

You have to be careful with Chiron activations, which could predict an ill-fated marriage... In this case Your Piscisīs Chiron (marriage) squares Jupiter (success)... In this case, that could point to a “not successful marriage”. Your Saturn opposes his Venus, thatīs a dangerous Saturn clash...

Then, surprisingly, you have a powerful GRAND TRINE with your husband... The linkage between Chiron and Neptune form a ROMANTIC SUPER LINKAGE... His Chiron (marriage) trines your Neptune (long term relationships), both trining your Saturn (restrictions, bonds). Therefore, that could lead to a powerful bond, a long term marriage that keeps you tied.

It would be interesting to know the planetary configuration of your wedding day...

You also share another beneficial Chiron SUPER LINKAGE with your husband... Your Venus is contra-parallel his Chiron. His Chiron syncronizes your Venus, Mars, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto... WOW!!! Are you sure he is such a bad choice?

posted February 26, 2005 08:30 AM         

*best of luck hugs*

p.s. does your husband seem happy in this marriage? just wondering..

posted February 26, 2005 09:51 AM         

How are you feeling today?

I hope you didnīt take my previous post in the wrong way... Iīm not trying to say you should stay with your husband... Only yourself know that... If your heart tells you your Pisces is the one, go for it, girl... I just wanted to tell you what I saw in your charts for you to have more data and make a more informed decision.

I’m not an expert but the Grand Trine and all those Chiron aspects did get my atention. I wonder exactly the same as Qudsielf... Astorologicaly speaking is surprising you donīt feel an instant connection... Your Sun sextiles his Moon and His Sun sextiles your Moon... How does your marriage feel? How does your husband feel about it?

Maybe you feel a strong link with your Pisces because you know each other from a past life, maybe you were lovers and you carry subsconciously that memory... But maybe the stars made sure you would marry the Scorpio... Not just your parents or your culture...

posted February 27, 2005 05:57 AM         

how do you tell that the sun does that to the moon etc etc? Could you maybe have a look at my chart (posted in the soul unions forum, just look for the thread I started) and give me some similar advice?

thankyou!!

and hey sunshine, am looking forward to your response - of course everyone can only offer their perception of this 'elephant', but you can see far more than we ever could..

posted February 28, 2005 12:23 AM         

I'm baaaack! Steelrose, I do appreciate your drawing up the charts & checking them out for me! And, sweetie, don't worry, i didn't take what you said the wrong way at all; you're just reporting what you saw with the charts. Though, that was pretty puzzling, because though the Scorpio & I liked each other on first meeting, our relationship has lacked the "connection" and the oomph I've always had with the Pisces. The Scorpio and I were more like a match made in the head, based on my rational thoughts about us being a good match, etc. That sounds so sad to me now. Back then I was foolish enough to try to work things out in my head, ignoring the cries of my heart about what She wanted for me. I read somewhere that the soul speaks in feelings. Perhaps this is my big "lesson", to learn to listen to my feelings more, and stop being the rational Cappy that I am, with that Cappy Sun/Cappy Moon/Cappy Mars.

Now, I'm even more embarassed to say that I just found out that the Scorpio's birthtime might be off for that chart - he says he was born in the evening, while i'd estimated an early AM birth time. My apologies to Steel & anyone else who put work into looking at the charts! This time, I'm going to just copy the revised data in the form of a synastry image (with the Scorpio; i estimated a 6 PM birth time) here, to make it easier to see:
http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=achart_rd6fileXNgly a-u987020554.18968.18201.gif&res=100&va=

posted February 28, 2005 12:56 AM         

Mama Mia, thank you so much, for those sweet words.. I've been feeling lately that the Pisces and I can't not be meant to be, after everything we've been through.. Whenever we had something keeping us apart in the past, events always turned out to put us back together again. We could never be away from each other for too long. Perhaps I shouldn't be saying this, but maybe this time too, now that I've learned my lesson (about following my heart, and BOY, have I paid for not heeding it before!), we'll have our chance again, after I settle things.

I did want to post the synastry chart again, between the Pisces & me; I included some of those asteroids here too - they seem SO fascinating, but there isn't much out there that talks about those aspects. Like, we have both our Saturns conjunct each other's Vertex, or Vertices, as the case may be; curious as to what those mean. Anyhoo, here's the synastry chart:
http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=achart_rd6fileXNglya -u987020554.17712.6264.gif&res=100&va=

Steel, I wasn't able to spot the Chiron-Jupiter square, but then again, I'm very new to all this. Was that in the Magi chart? Please peek at this one and tell me?!! This chart, I noticed, has a TON of aspect lines, compared to the previous one, both red & blue. Like you were saying, our Saturns oppose each other's Venuses - ouch! And I know there are squares involving his Mercury, which surprises me, because he & i have always communicated VERY well. We've had some, nice, looong talks whenever I'd tried to convince him that I couldn't be with him, and he tried to convince me that we could and would work, and that I was underestimating what he'd do for love!

I wish his Venus & Mercury had been nice enough to fall in the Earth/Water signs NEXT to them, so we wouldn't have those squares involving them. But then again, going by our actual relationship, I'd have to say that maybe these astro charts really represent only the potential of a relationship, both positive and negative... And, like you were saying, Mama Mia, the reality won't always be as the charts predict. It's up to us, the individuals involved, to work out the clashes that arise, and make a success out of it. The Pisces has always indicated his willingness to work hard to overcome any conflicts or hardships that might come up in the course of our relationship.

posted February 28, 2005 01:20 AM         

Those cultural pressures are quite tough to handle - normally, my parents are VERY liberal and open-minded, and they'd do just about anything for my happiness - but, when it came down to my choice of mate, they'd get all over-protective, like i'm a 6 year-old or something! It takes work to get through to them and have them see your POV; if you've got that done, then I say WAY to go, girl!

And now I can also say, from experience, that regardless of who you choose to marry, it's all about the willingness to work at it, and stick by each other through thick & thin. In my case, ironically, my Piscean sweetie did that for me (even though we'd never officially been a couple), while the Scorpio would rather coast and do just enough to get by. Does he seem happy?- To answer your question, I'd say that he'd be happy if he could sit back while I do all the work, and would like it very much if I did it all without complaining or asking for his participation! Alas, for him, I turned out to be a "feisty" one. *more *

Now, though I'm a newb at this too, I do have a few suggestions to get you started. I'll go put those in your thread.

posted March 09, 2005 01:55 AM         

That's an interesting thought (and no one's mentioned it so far; thank you for that! How do you find the Saturn return? Now that you mention it, I wonder if this is why my whole last year felt completely & totally crappy, and I'm still struggling to get out of everything that came out of that dark period.

Sue, how did you get over always wanting to please the family? That's a tough one for me, cause I'm always torn b/w doing things to keep my family happy, and following my heart. I ended up in this situation because of that; I figured my unhappiness << family harmony/happiness, so I quietly swallowed my feelings when it came down to it. Looking back, i always feel stoopid, but when i'm in the thick of it, I just can't help it! ARGH! It's SO frustrating!! I guess it'll be the lesson of a lifetime for me: how not to go down as a foolish martyr-type.

posted March 09, 2005 02:27 AM         

My mom pressured me into getting married when I was 18 (not a good idea!). I was repulsed by the idea of sex with my husband who I didnt find attractive or unattractive, just a normal person. It was exceedingly difficult. He was a stormy person too and abusive at times. The marriage ended in divorce recently.

Now my mother has been on my case again to get married by next June. I don't know when these difficult aspects will finally let me loose! But for the past four years, I've been in horribly difficult times--lost the person I loved most, forced into marriage, and now forced into it again.

I cannot say 'no' because she had supported me financially when I was stuck in a situation in which I could not support myself. She bought me everything without my even asking. Now there is a huge huge burden on my shoulders. I can't see her tears (or anyones for that matter, I become a violent crusader on a mission for blood when I see anyones tears!), and I feel that a formal 'union' wouldn't hurt anyone; I am beginning to slowly lose the sacred feel I had for marriage. Maybe its selfishness? In fact I'm sure its probably selfishness!

This is a huge tangent!

Sunshine I wanderd in here and was caught off guard. You story was truly heart wrenching probably because it is in some ways so close to mine. However, my love got married as well, and now he can never be mine again. This is so much more painful. Go--pursue your Pisces, before it is too late, before you lose him and live the life of what if that I've been living for four years now!

I would not recommend, however, that you throw down everything and break all barriers and go run back to him. A purely emotional decision is the last thing you need at the moment I feel. You need to reach the reason-emotion equilibrium that your mind is not finding at the moment.

Steelrose--thats so fascinating...Im absolutely and totally enthralled...

posted March 09, 2005 03:15 PM         

Sorry, I have been missing for a while... I just got a new job and I’m extremely busy right now... And pretty much stressed...

Sunshine, those images expired... I got to see them too late, sorry... The Magi chart is just a normal chart with declinations... What is different is the interpretation... Chiron is VERY important for relationships, for example... And the planet geometry is decisive...

Qudsielf, I’ll have a look to your synastry, sorry if I never did it before... When I was unemployed I was all day dedicated to Astrology... Nowadays I’m lucky to scrap half an hour to check my emails and the new threads in this site... But if you are patient, I may have a few hours over the weekend... I’ll add my analysis to your thread (not to invade Sunshine’s...).

The same to you, Secret Garden... Can you post your and your ex’s charts? Don’t forget to include Chiron and the nodes... The declinations would be helpful... If you don’t know where to get the data from, just post your birth date, time and place... You can also start a new thread for it and I’ll add my comments in there...

Just beware I’m a just an amateur, only a step further from a beginner. I’d love your feedback!!! Just see if what I say makes sense to you in your own experience...

posted March 10, 2005 01:32 AM         

My heart goes out to you for all the hardships you've had to face! *hugs* And, I don't think you're selfish for feeling the way you do. I think it's totally normal, because when you go through such tough times, esp. the breakup of a marriage, it's completely natural to feel disillusioned with it. We all start out with such romantic ideas of life, even someone such as me, who's thought by most people to be a unromantic realist! I'd always thought that marriage is forever, and that i'd want to marry a soulmate, and we'd stay together no matter what, but life's taught me that it's not always that simple. Don't let yourself get pressured into anything you're not willing to go into! You have your whole life ahead of you, and hopefully you've made it through the hardest parts. Stay strong (you obviously are, for having made it through all that and come out alive & kicking!)

You're totally right about me needing to be able to make a firm decision from a place where I'm not emotional. I've been meditating and trying to find my balance, so hopefully I can draw on that strength to do that.

posted March 10, 2005 01:42 AM         

Welcome back, girl!! I did wonder where you'd gotten to. Congrats on the new job; how is it going so far? It's almost time you got in touch with your old flame again, right? How is that situation going?

Not to worry about those expired charts; I'll post them again here, for whenever you have a spare minute. Here's my synastry chart with the Pisces, for a birth time (for him) that is correct to the half hour: http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=achart_rd6fileXNgly a-u987020554.23835.10874.gif&res=100&va=

And here's the one with the Scorpion: http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=achart_rd6fileXNgly a-u987020554.23952.12349.gif&res=100&va= As I was saying earlier, for this one, i just estimated his birth time since I only know that it was in the evening sometime.

posted March 12, 2005 11:53 AM         

My new job is going well... These first 10 days have been exhausting... I’m already working full blast!!! But I like it... I’m very happy because now I have a new life again... I would have never dreamt of this three months ago, right after returning from the UK... It’s like a new chance, to be reborn again... I just need my old flame *fingers crossed* wants something to do with me now... Oh, yes, I’m very excited about it!!! Only a week left... I wish everything was fine...

posted March 12, 2005 05:54 PM         

Sunshine: Thanks so much for your kind words, I think we all don't realize how kind we can be with just a few sympathetic words! But sometimes, like everyone else, I have my very difficult times when its hard to face the world, with my past since I have so much emotional baggage. But then I bounce back thankfully, after much thinking and consideration, I think I am very glad I have an Air Sun because at those times when I'm really emotional, or about to cry even, I will hear this voice in my head say, Oh stop now, look at so and so, whos so much worse than you! or something else of a rational nature, and I will force myself to be normalized again. I think it actually helps because even thought theres so much turmoil between my heart and brain, I really need that contrast to bring me back to equilibrium hehehe

I totally hear you about starting out as a romantic. Although Im totally practical and pragmatic so far as finances, status, living life in general goes, relationships break me up because I get so self sacrificial in them; I want to give it my all I believe they are really something beyond normal, very spiritual, etc. So I have to put myself all into them and end up coming back exhausted! And most of the time, disappointed and disillusioned too!

I wish you best of luck on finding the balance, I think everyone has that struggle to face. Thanks again for your love!

posted March 12, 2005 06:12 PM         

House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Libra 06°55'58
2nd House Scorpio 04°29'32
3rd House Sagittarius 05°06'18
Imum Coeli Capricorn 07°33'35
5th House Aquarius 09°57'32
6th House Pisces 10°13'43
Descendant Aries 06°55'58
8th House Taurus 04°29'32
9th House Gemini 05°06'18
Medium Coeli Cancer 07°33'35
11th House Leo 09°57'32
12th House Virgo 10°13'43