posted December 31, 2008 11:13 AM         

I mean, you are taking it really hard. MOst people mastrubate. As in most people matrubate. If someomne was threatening to leave me over it, I might tell them ok ok, I won't do it, but I gaurantee, 4 times a year at least, I will be breaking my word. He doesn't mean to hurt you, nor does he want to.

I mean "a liar that broke my heart"...you have to give a little. HE should still be able to be himself in a relationship as should you, it doesn't mean he doesn'tlove you, and once or twice a week, let alone a year, is certainly not an addiction to porn.

Jealousy of ficticious women that he will never meet is silly. Your feelings aren't silly of course, but you have to realize these women are not a threat to your relationship.

to divorce over this? please reconsider your commitment and your vows.

I have been divorced and do not take it lightly once for beating, once for cheating, but it takes a huge toll on you and your family and you said for better or worse. JO to porn is what most men do on occasion. DO you have toys that you play with at times without him? private personal toys? it is normal and natural.

You should really think this through. If you major on the minors, when the majors happen, you don't have the energy to deal with them. I try to not complian about little things that don't really matter, as the big things will be along soon enough and when that happens I want to be heard.

If you really love him, you will work through this. If your marraige can't survive this, it won't survive much at all.

posted December 31, 2008 11:27 AM         

It seems so very controlling.

If he lies about everything, I understand you. If he lies about this...I see why....you shouldn't try to control another person, the only person you can control is your sELF. I would resent your demands if I were in his shoes and cling to everything about me that makes me me.... Seems some what unreasonable to me.

Every guy I work with watches porn daily on the web. I catch our accountant 4 times a day with it on his screen, let alone 4 x a year. Seroiusly, if you want a guy that doesn't look at porn, good luck, I am pretty sure 95 percent do, 3 percent wish they did, and 2 percent don't have computers.

posted December 31, 2008 12:28 PM         

He has leo predominant, and mars in libra and some aquarius in his chart which to me would suggest he is probobly going to be happier in the long run to just be able to be himself. So astrologically speaking, if she keeps doing this type of or else ultimatum, he will walk away and not look back someday and she really will lose him for good.

I can not see a chart posted nor the transits, so to say she is having moon square mars and in two days this will be over is not something I can look at.

posted December 31, 2008 12:31 PM         

Furthermore, from his placements I am going to guess, he is probobly a good provider, sacrifices for his family and tries to understand both sides to every coin. He is probobly very loyal, excepting those dam eyes, and her saturn probobly sits right on his everything.

posted December 31, 2008 01:43 PM         

I am sorry to hear that you are hurting.

Divorce is very expensive and painful

It is a major decision and my only suggestion is that if you are *seriously* contemplating it - please invest in *professional* resources for advice. It is a good idea not to expect anything from anonymous posts and a free message board, and it would not be fair to judge because anonymous posters are not knowledgeable about your situation and will not have enough context to help you.

Good Luck,

Aphrodite

posted December 31, 2008 03:42 PM         

quote:

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Seroiusly, if you want a guy that doesn't look at porn, good luck, I am pretty sure 95 percent do, 3 percent wish they did, and 2 percent don't have computers.

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posted January 02, 2009 03:42 PM         

Nightjar,

I think its realistic to expect people on a public messageboard to inject (delicately or forcefully) their own value systems for consideration, and not to simply interpret this situation according to katkins' value system, and what she wants to hear. If people think the issue is with her value system, then, even if they limit their responses to an interpretion of the transits in her chart, they are going to find a way to interpret those transits and interaspects in terms of a challenge to her value-system, lol. You made an interesting point about how, "if it is a problem for her, it is a problem." To a certain extent this is true, and we have a right to set boundaries we are comfortable with, and seek people who can respect them. However, some boundaries are just walls "protecting" us from uncomfortable truths about life, and about ourselves, and some comfort zones are worth stepping outside of. Likewise, we may have acquired the view that something is a priority, when, really, if we were shown an alternate perspective, we might not accord it that importance. For one thing, our standards/expectations may be unrealistic. Let's say that I want a woman who weighs -120lbs, is 5'4", has an I.Q. over 150, is always sweet and selfless, and has great big orgasms every time we make love. Suppose I post a topic, saying that I am going to divorce my wife because she meets all but one of these criterea. She's not having huge orgasms when we do it. But thats not what bothers me.. no, what bothers me is that she "lied" about it! She said she would never fake an orgasm, but then we had sex and, for once, she didnt come like a freight train, and (of course) I got all morose and withrawn, -- then, the next time we did it, she faked it, just so I wouldnt be upset. That was the last straw; now I want a divorce. How should people respond to me in that thread? By telling me I ought to move on and find my ideal fantasy girl? Or by suggesting that I am, perhaps, demanding too much, and maybe, just maybe, the problem is more with my expectations, and with a lack of communication and compromise within the relationship? We are not here to tell people they are always right, that everything should go their way, and, if it doesnt, they should end a seven year marriage (without even bothering to consider other points of view) and just move on. I see that as a form of enabling; encouraging them to remain within their comfort zones, and not to even consider the situation in a different light (like, from the point of view of the other person in the marriage).

Melody wrote:

quote:

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because men are visual, their enjoyment of porn is equivalent to a woman's enjoyment of romance novels and romance movies. Imagine if men felt as if we were cheating on them because we wanted to watch When Harry Met Sally or Pretty Woman.

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This is Melody's point of view. Perhaps Katkins never heard anything like it. Perhaps when she reads it, she begins to think of the entire situation in a very different light. Suddenly, what she thought was a deal-breaker, doenst seem like such a big deal after all. Maybe she continues to read, and discovers that the overwhelming majority of posters think this is not a big deal, and maybe that also has a profound influence on what she thinks is "normal". Maybe she grew up in an environment where the puritanical vein was strong, and this is an opportunity for her to open her mind and relax some of her more rigid moralistic codes, rather than an opportunity to go on with business as usual, abandoning anyone or anything that poses a challenge to those codes. You may say that our business here is not to try to diagnose pathologies and provoke realizations in people, but I think that is precisely our business, and that, even when we do it clumsily and rudely, we still accomplish more than we would by just telling people what they want to hear, and helping them along the primrose path.

bunnies wrote:

quote:

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when you open that door and allow that part of your brain to get stimulated the way his is becoming, there is no going back.
It's a bad habit.
Like all bad habits, stop it now or get used to seeing your man stuck for hours every night in front of a screen j***ing off.

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Hours every night? Really? How about fifteen minutes, three or four times a week (when I'm not "getting it" with someone)? Thats how much time it takes out of my life, and I've had that door open for years. You say you've seen the damage it does, but maybe you've just seen the damage that was blamed on it? Like most posters here, I think it can become a problem, not because it already is a problem, but, only when there are other, real, problems that go unacknowledged and unconfronted. But trust me, for most men, that door was opened when they were thirteen, -- not by porn, but by imagination, fueled by the natural instincts of men. And if you take away the porn, the only thing that happens is we will start to develop more vivid imaginations, lol. And if you think you can play thought-police to our imaginations... haha!!!! For that, you would, at the very least, have to make all the gorgeous, sexy women in the world disappear. But if it really upsets you, I suppose you can either go to a gym several times a week, and try to make yourself look as fine as the women in our fantasies, or consider coming to terms with reality. You know what is far more likely to create the sort of problems you are talking about? A woman's addiction to rose-colored love stories (the ones they spend hours watching and reading every week, and which we often have to watch with them), because they almost all show men as these ideal heroic types who will desire her more than any other woman in the world and would never watch porn; and once a woman opens that door and stimulates that part of her brain, lol, watch out! She will never be satisfied with an actual man ever again, lol. And not just in the bedroom. But thats life. The answer is not to quash anyone's fantasies, but, to allow them a place, while manitaining a healthy respect for reality, and a willingness to dialogue with our partners about uncomfortable issues.

'Zala wrote:

quote:

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...threats and ultimatums probably aren't the best way to deal with a problem, especially an addiction.
It sounds to me like there might be a failure to communicate needs and expectations...

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Katkins,

People lie for various reasons.
It is not the most mature response to a problem,
but it is more common, I think, than you may know.
It is said the philosopher Diogenes carried a lantern in the daytime,
and told everyone that he was "looking for an honest man".
Apparently, he never found one.

posted January 02, 2009 03:46 PM         

and not a bad writer either.

posted January 02, 2009 03:47 PM         

quote:

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but.....a woman lie about an orgasm? never...you are way off the mark. (smiley thing)

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posted January 02, 2009 07:38 PM         

Did you ever stop to think you were violating his freedom by ordering him around like a child and almost forcing him to lie about that one thing? Probably not. You should call him, apologize, and ask for him to come back.

posted January 03, 2009 03:24 AM         

quote:

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My response

Aside from the fact he has admitted to a porn addiction and refused counseling because he can quit on his own (Sorry that was omitted, I was worked up in a frenzy),
the issue is really about his lying.
Is Pluto entering my 7th house and Saturn squaring my Sagittarius planets bring negative news?

---

I used to post on a relationship forum. This was a theme that cropped up in regular cycles. Porn addiction, that is, the type where your sex life as a couple is killed off, and with it any productive dialogue or trust. If it is that bad, then that would be why you are so angry that he is lying to you and refusing to deal with the situation.

Please tell me if I misunderstood you.

Oh, and on that forum, there did seem to be many women who seemed to be upset at the idea of their boyfriends having any sexual expression outside of their relationship - looking, thinking, or indeed cracking off a sneaky one (as blokes tend to do). I think it's a reasonable summary to say most responders to this thread think that might be a little extreme as a view. But I'm not sure that is where you are arriving from, but it is hard to be sure by reading one short post.

posted January 03, 2009 05:31 AM         

There are many good reasons for people to keep their messages compact: it doesn't mean they don't have the capacity to consider the matter from all angles and need guidance.

posted January 03, 2009 12:54 PM         

- If a relationship is healthy and great in every aspect, as well as in the bedroom, porn (introduced into the relation openly) can be something to share together in a great way.

- However, if the sexual relation is already bad, the porn can of course feel like a threat and betrayal - especially if it's hidden and lied about.

The damage done can be difficult to heal because the person who has been secretly watching porn may feel "dirty" and ashamed because of the other persons reaction to it, and the other person may feel betrayed by the lie but also disgusted by the action itself. This ofcourse, is not the best place to be if you want to heal a relationship...

posted January 03, 2009 05:57 PM         

I apologize if my tone was somewhat patronizing. I'll try to keep an eye on that. I think, for the most part, I am just trying to express my take on things as clearly as possible. I can be brief, but verbosity is a by-product of precision; and I'd rather compromise brevity. Maybe its unnecessary for you, but I don't know you, and plenty of readers do make assumptions and misunderstand me when I dont spell things out to some degree. I dont think thats being patronizing towards them or insulting their intelligence, I just think some people dont relate to, or understand, each other as well as others, and I want to reach as many people as possible. If I state the obvious, it is often given as a reference point; a point of departure, a landmark, on the way to a more obscure position. I like to "show my math" for those who want to see, not just where I stand, but, how I got there. I don't mean to imply that you must be in disagreement with every single thing I am saying. You may be seeing things as deeply, and from as many angles, but you dont seem to want to invest your time and energy (yourself) in it as much as I do. And thats fine. Maybe, to you, its just a messageboard. If so, thats cool. I dont know what your thinking is. But thats my point. I may say too much, but how do you know you've said enough, until you've said too much? I just put it all out there, figuring that everyone can take it or leave it. I think it gives it a more personal stamp when the writing is loose and comprehensive, and thats a priority for me. And, yes, I like to hear myself talk; I like how I say things; I think I'm witty and worthy of your time, lol. Apparently sunshine_lion thought I was "pretty damn smart" and "not a bad writer", and I doubt someone as intelligent as her would say that if the key notes were "obvious and patronizing". But I think I hear what you're saying.

Anyway, hope that clarifies my perspective somewhat. Take care.