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Author Topic:   Is a square in horary a big fat no?
Aurorablue
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posted February 14, 2014 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aurorablue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Been advised that it was best to ask here

Ok so I did a horary for a relationship question I have and as I understand it as the first is in cancer I'd be the moon and he would be saturn? They are making a square aspect. Is this a no? am I missing looking at anything else?

Thanks lovelies xx

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filleaspirant
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posted February 14, 2014 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No aspect means no. Applying aspects mean a future ocurrence, something to come, etc; separating aspects mean a past encounter, something that has already happened. Flowing aspects means a nice, calm, easy answer/meeting, while hard aspects (square in your case) stand for a difficult encounter, a fight, some trouble.

I'm on my phone so this is a quick overview of things. Sometimes this thing won't load the pictures, otherwise I'd take a look at your horary.

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Aurorablue
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posted February 15, 2014 01:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aurorablue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, I just wanted to be sure I read it right as what is interesting is my moon is in leo which I'm entering this year in my next solar return and his saturn is in Virgo which is his sun sign. Although they make a square aspect, and my moon is in 2nd and his in 5th

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pocaloca
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posted February 15, 2014 02:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you 2 in love with the love more then in each other?...its a strange horary, Both of you are in each others "bad feel " house and peregrine..you in his house of detriment, he in the house of your fall...better i dont say anything cos if I am wrong I would just make you unhappy dear and this is the last thing I want..*

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Aurorablue
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posted February 15, 2014 02:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aurorablue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No not in love. I know him more than he knows me

I take it as a no then haha x

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pocaloca
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posted February 15, 2014 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What was the question sugar pie ?...no love yes, but what i see is your venus, your sex and femininity in cadent house- house of fear and secret, your 6 his 12th in his domicile and your triplicity..well I would say in secret he wants to nail you , finds you sexy and you kinda know it..

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Aurorablue
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posted February 15, 2014 03:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aurorablue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My question was 'will I have a relationship with him?'

He doesn't know me that well, so there is no love as such but very much a love interest from my part.

I'm coming out of a long hurtful relationship at the moment with someone else.


Thanks lovely

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pocaloca
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posted February 15, 2014 04:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
for the time being, no..I would say no but if someone disagrees with me I would be more then glad to be in wrong as long thats, the relation, is what you desire..xx

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Aurorablue
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posted February 15, 2014 04:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aurorablue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, I will go with that


Thank you again x

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filleaspirant
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posted February 15, 2014 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, I'm back.

Er, I don't see this as a no. It's an applying square, so it would mean a problematic yes, but a yes nonetheless. A bumpy-road-towards-relationship yes.

You're both in fixed signs and in succedant houses, so timing is in years. This says the relationship is possible in more or less 2 years.

You're peregrine in this chart, yes, but you're being received by triplicity, so there are feelings for you on his part. He's peregrine, but also being received by triplicity, which points to you having some feelings for him. The fact that he's in the sign of your fall, to me, means that his opinion of you might be a little skewed. Perhaps you had a fight or will have one, and he's going to think you've done him some wrong.

He's in your 5th house, so he is definitely a love interest. You're in your 2nd, so you're focused on possessions, property and matters of the 2nd. Turning the chart, he's in his 11th, so he's focused on his friendships, most likely wanting to keep your friendship going. You're in his 8th, and this could go either way: if you fought, perhaps he might want things to end, if everything's okay, then, well, this IS the house of sex.

A lot has to happen before you guys can enter into a relationship though, as Moon has a lot of applying aspects. Nevertheless, you're both in passionate signs which would suggest - passion!

Overall, looks good to me.

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start6030
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posted February 15, 2014 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for start6030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hehhe... see, u got ur answer

and @ filleaspirant ... i lv reading ur readings i tried it for her before bt coz i rarely know nothng , soknew she would get a perfect ans here..and here u gave it ! jst a question from my side to LEARN smthng ... i could make out how he is in her 5th house... but i thought she was in his 10th ( counted clockwise from her sign to him... taking her as 1 and so on..) . after reading wt u wrote , i saw i was wrong about this 10th... plz guide me how is it 2nd thxxx

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filleaspirant
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posted February 15, 2014 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey @start, thanks for the compliment. :')

Well, you actually count the houses counterclockwise. So, as he is signified by the 7th house, the 7th becomes his 1st house and his 2nd becomes her 8th, and so on and so forth.

When I said she's in her 2nd and he's in her 5th, we get to see what she's focusing on and how she sees him. As we "turn the chart", we get to see his perspective: he's in his 11th and she's in his 8th, therefore he's focused on 11th house matters and sees her in 8th house ways.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear. This was a bit tricky to learn at first, lol. Don't get discouraged!

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start6030
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posted February 15, 2014 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for start6030     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fllieaspirant , thank u sooooooo much!

sorry , i also was checkng counterclockwise (Wrote clockws by mistake) but was still getting it wrong.

the explanation u gave , was perfect...thank u for explaining it so nicely!!! lolz, am gonna pull out all my horaries i did for myself and check from this point heheh..yeah , they r the things of the past ..but would like to see wht exactly they meant! ..

thank u !

n yup... lv it wn ithorary) comes from u , Hera , Ceri and a couple of other members ! am usually a silent reader .

astrol is a gift... u guys r lucky! thnk u once again!

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filleaspirant
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posted February 15, 2014 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, thanks! My ego thanks you for putting me up alongside Hera and Ceri. I still have a lot to learn to get to their level, but thanks anyway.

And I'm happy to help out any way I can. I've always found help here, so I'm glad to return some of the goodwill that comes my way.

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filleaspirant
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posted February 17, 2014 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump for Aurora. Not sure she saw the reading I did for her.

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pocaloca
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posted February 17, 2014 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by filleaspirant:

Okay, I'm back.
Er, I don't see this as a no. It's an applying square, so it would mean a problematic yes, but a yes nonetheless. A bumpy-road-towards-relationship yes.


Dear, I like your interpretation way better then mine we must be clear about that one but I dont understand some of your points..Applying square seldom or never brings positive result without essential dignities involved, reception...right? Problem can be solved only if involved rae willing..if not then there is no solution...
quote:

You're peregrine in this chart, yes, but you're being received by triplicity,


Triplicity? Saturn is in detriment in LEO, has the Term rulership the first 6 degrees of Leo and Face the first 10 degrees..She, Moon is at 21° Leo and there Saturn has no dignity except detriment and She-Moon is peregrine..So let me try to picture it. She is in the house where she does not have any power to act and he, Saturn does not want to assist her at all, actually he does not like her being there at all..
quote:

so there are feelings for you on his part

.
Please, if you can explain how you saw that I would be rally glad cos I see exactly the opposite actually..and that not, trust me, because I am mean, evil or agains love
quote:

He's peregrine, but also being received by triplicity, which points to you having some feelings for him.

Moon does not have rulership by Triplicity in Scorpio by any means, its actually in fall?! and Saturn has no dignity there , is peregrine as well..

quote:

The fact that he's in the sign of your fall, to me, means that his opinion of you might be a little skewed. Perhaps you had a fight or will have one, and he's going to think you've done him some wrong.


There is no mutual reception at all and arguments, fights as we all know , demand emotional Involvement..right? I would say the scenario would be likely here that they dont give attention/time/ interest etc. to each other and that causes maybe a bit more bad feel at her site..I dont know really..I would love if you can explain how did you came to that what you saw. I also learn horary and am open to all suggestions dear..
quote:

He's in your 5th house, so he is definitely a love interest. You're in your 2nd, so you're focused on possessions, property and matters of the 2nd. Turning the chart, he's in his 11th, so he's focused on his friendships, most likely wanting to keep your friendship going. You're in his 8th, and this could go either way: if you fought, perhaps he might want things to end, if everything's okay, then, well, this IS the house of sex.

I agree with most especially that she is actually a sex interest for him rather then love interest. Venus is in a cadent house of secrets and maybe fears in his domicile..Or he is afraid to tell her the truth , or he wants her to be his secret mistress and he welcomes her as such, and only such in his home..thats why I said I think he wants to " nail " her lol..

quote:

A lot has to happen before you guys can enter into a relationship though, as Moon has a lot of applying aspects. Nevertheless, you're both in passionate signs which would suggest - passion!


His sexual being-SUN is in her 8th house but only in her dignity by Face which is weak actually ..I dont think that she even likes him sexually that much..She maybe feels , her subconscious mind, tha thats what he probable wants from her ( and she is right) ..possible that this dude evan has some physical problems btw..look at his Sun in aqua, its in fall..weak as hell..
quote:
Overall, looks good to me.

I strongly disagree but I love your positive attitude and I hope I dont understand horary at all!! Again, your answer is way better..Please filleaspirant, other horary expats, HELP...I am really willing, eager to learn!

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filleaspirant
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posted February 17, 2014 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey poca,

Well, I have to disagree on applying hard aspects never bringing positive results. I've only started reading horary a few months ago but I've seen applying squares and oppositions working out. I myself did a horary on a simple yes/no question, got an applying opposition and, yup, after a few days of angsty fretting, I got my reply back (the question was "is he going to email me back?"). In that instance, it meant delay on his part and annoyance/regret on mine. There's the friction between us.

So, I use this table here:

Here's a link to a great astrologer: http://boroveshengra.blogspot.com.br/2013_08_01_archive.html He also says this about triplicity:

quote:
The four triplicities are the four elements, and each has a ruler by day and night and a third participating:

Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius, day charts: Sun, Jupiter, Saturn.
Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius, night charts: Jupiter, Sun, Saturn.

Taurus, Virgo, and Capricorn, day charts: Venus, Moon, Mars.
Taurus, Virgo, and Capricorn, night charts: Moon, Venus, Mars.

Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius, day charts: Saturn, Mercury, Jupiter.
Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius, night charts: Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter.

Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces, day charts: Venus, Mars, Moon.
Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces, night charts: Mars, Venus, Moon.


Therefore, She-Moon's received by triplicity by partipating Saturn and He-Saturn's received by triplicity by participating Moon. There's the mutual reception you said wasn't there. What I said about him having feelings was based on the mutual reception, btw.

Venus in 12th could also mean a love interest of his that he's hiding from the querent, as it rules his 5th house. It could also mean, like you said, that he wants the physical connection and wants to keep it a secret. Or even that he's hiding his sexual attraction to the querent from her and/or from himself.

Sun in Aqua is not in fall as he's saved by being dignified by face. He would be in fall if he's been placed in the first 20 degrees but he's not, so he's actually dignified. Fall and Detriment are weak positions, peregrine usually stands for imobility and Face, Term, Triplicity and Rulership are strong positions (from lesser strong to stronger).

quote:
Originally posted by pocaloca:
I strongly disagree but I love your positive attitude


Have you ever read any horary readings I've done here? They aren't positive if I don't see positivity in them. I've actually given pretty gloom reads that turned out to be true. Here, if you wanna check them out (just don't reply to any of them; if you wanna discuss something, just write it here, ok?):
- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009227.html
- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009229.html
- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009015.html
- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009565.html
- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009545.html
- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009621.html
- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009870.html

Let me know if I've left something out and not responded to, poca.

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pocaloca
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posted February 17, 2014 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi abby...sorry for waiting but i was distracted for a while...

well I always use the classic Table of Dignities according to Ptolemy ..this one

and I did not know anything about Participation in Triplicity...So how does that play out? Can you bring some light there..Obviously Ptolemy did not consider it as influence..

When it comes to applying aspects by square or opposition I dont say that it is not possible to overcome the issues of the conflict, problem...no! But in order to do it you need the support and will from the other, thats why mutual reception plays such a big role..Without mutual reception, willingness from both parties, its really hard and almost impossible that the hard application would have an happy end..I hope you agree on that one..

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filleaspirant
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posted February 17, 2014 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're interested to read on the backstory of triplicity: http://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/triplicity-the-third-essential-dignity/

I find that having a third planet, the participating planet, makes sense, as the dignity is called triplicity. Which clearly derives from the word triple and would imply that there should be a 3rd planet there. I don't know, call me crazy, but triplicity just brings to my mind the number 3.

As I've explained above, the system I use allows for a third planet in triplicity, so I do see this as a yes, a possibility. Free will will always play out in the end, whether both parties are dignified or not. *shrug* I stand by everything I said in my reading. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

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pocaloca
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posted February 17, 2014 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
love the way you laugh ( but not!)

Triplicity comes from triple, tree etc, sure but what about if we imagine the planetary rulership as house..
There we have a house owner (rulership), the beloved best friend who can be there when ever he wants with all the privilege , key ( exaltation), the 2 good friends (Triplicity 1+1+house owner an not, 1+1+1 plus who the fuxx gives a shix about house owner and his rules) and then all the other not so beloved and respected guests....
Did you think about that? Well thats how I saw-see triplicity and thats why i ask you to explain better.Looks like Ptolemy thought also like that otherwise he would of have 3 planets under triplicity rulership as well!
I wanted to know how that "third" one behaves and which " rights the planets has i the house, how strong..
If you are, your planet for example is, in the Face of another planet you would need the Term as well in order to be-have meaning, be able to perform otherwise the reception is too weak .

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filleaspirant
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posted February 17, 2014 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pocaloca:
love the way you laugh ( but not!)

Triplicity comes from triple, tree etc, sure but what about if we imagine the planetary rulership as house..
There we have a house owner (rulership), the beloved best friend who can be there when ever he wants with all the privilege , key ( exaltation), the 2 good friends (Triplicity 1+1+house owner an not, 1+1+1 plus who the fuxx gives a shix about house owner and his rules) and then all the other not so beloved and respected guests....
Did you think about that? Well thats how I saw-see triplicity and thats why i ask you to explain better.Looks like Ptolemy thought also like that otherwise he would of have 3 planets under triplicity rulership as well!
I wanted to know how that "third" one behaves and which " rights the planets has i the house, how strong..


Face reception, weak as it is, is still reception.

Did you read the link I pasted above? I'm not an astrology teacher and I make no money out of this - it's very much a hobby for me -, so I can only point you in the direction of things that helped me learn horary. I don't get why, when I just told you I use a different method, you seem to be trying to prove me wrong, when even professional astrologers disagree on stuff like this.

Anyhow, Ptolomy also thought the Earth was at the center of the Universe, and I think this has been exhaustively established that the Sun is at the center of our galaxy and that the Universe is bigger than the Milky Way galaxy. Is he wrong on anything else he's written about astrology and astronomy? I don't think so, but he could be.

quote:
If you are, your planet for example is, in the Face of another planet you would need the Term as well in order to be-have meaning, be able to perform otherwise the reception is too weak .

Where did you read this? ^^ I've never come accross anything like that.

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pocaloca
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posted February 17, 2014 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read that in many examples...If I remeber where I can find a good example I would let you know, post that here.
Okay let me say like this. Not every planet has the same strength, condition in the house where it is found? Right? So a planet in exaltation is way stronger and able to perform then the one which is only in the face or term...Also the quality is different..Let us say we have PURE LOVE ( rulership), IN LOVE-CRAZY ABOUT ( exaltation), LIKE (triplicity), MAYBE LIKE- MAYBE NOT SO (term), OKAY (face), DISLIKE (detriment), HATE (fall).
So you take MAYBE LIKE-MAYBE NOT and add OKAY and you kinda get LIKE..hope you understand.

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filleaspirant
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posted February 17, 2014 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Exactly. I don't disagree on the hierarchy of dignities and debilities. What I suggested for us to agree to disagree was on the mutual reception, which I see as existing (as I use the triplicity with 3 planets table) and you don't (as you use the triplicity with 2 planets table).

In my reading, I pointed out mutual reception by triplicity. So by your own words, we have a LIKE here from both sides, if we adopt the system I use. Right?

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pocaloca
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posted February 17, 2014 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pocaloca     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ahaha...YES but NO cos those two LIKES come from those who are not in my Ptolemy list! and also actually in detriment Saturn and fall Moon...And also the question..Do we want to see lukewarm LIKEs in love horary with a big touch of DISLIKE AND HATE? mixed with peregrine condition of a guest ( cant do nothing and I am not really welcome...)...hmmm....and then wait 2 years for maybe!! ahaha..sorry I make jokes but really?..I see that square as disappointment and one big "back to reality" bang for both of them ...now I really want to know more about situation!

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filleaspirant
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posted February 17, 2014 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for filleaspirant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And your Ptolomy list is the absolute truth of the matter? You're basically saying I'm wrong because I don't use the system you do. I'm happy to agree to disagree but you seem to want to convince me I'm wrong - which you won't succeed in, because so far the system I use for my readings are working, as you can see by the posts I pasted in an earlier reply.

You see things one way, I see them differently. I don't see why you so fervently want to impose your vision upon mine.

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