posted May 10, 2004 02:16 PM              

Anyway, this morning I open up the newspaper and see a photo of an Iraqi prisoner naked, hands behind his back,slightly bent forward and two dogs barking at him while an American soldier is shouting at him. I am sure you know what i am talking about.Perhaps it is the most shocking photo to come out exposing the american soldiers abuse towards thge Iraqi prisoner at Abu Ghraib prison over the past few weeks.Perhaps not as more photos are bound to be seen by the public.I cannot even begin to describe how i feel when I see these photos. i can't believe how people(and I am not talking only of the american soldiers) can abuse and ridiculeother people of different races and beliefs.No one has a right tooverpower another person. We are all equal.It saddens me that people think they are better than others.
I know that most of you here are Americans,but what I have to say next, I feel the need to say it.I apologise SINCERELY beforehand if I offend anyone.
There is no doubt in Iraq,America is a nation the Iraqis hate.But now it is made evenworse.Since these photos have emerged,the Iraqs now despise America even more than they have ever before. America is now seen in an extremely negative light,not only in Iraq but around the world.(I can feel the heat from some of you guys).These are trying times for America and Iraq and I sincerely pray that all these problems will be sorted out in due time. I am not taking on any sides here as I love America but also respect Iraq.But the American soldiers involved in the photos and abuse disgust me,especially Lynndie England.

posted May 10, 2004 02:26 PM            

I think everyone can agree that it was a bad thing, it shouldn't have been done, etc. Beyond that, what's there to say?

The right probably views it as heinous yet isolated incidences which shouldn't indict all soldiers, the war in Iraq, etc, and the left (from what I see in the media) wants to use it as an excuse to get rid of Rummy, the military, the war, etc. Where can that discussion go but into the toilet really fast? I'd be all for discussing it personally, not in an emotional fashion, but rather as a debate. That's not bloody likely, soo...here we are - silence...

posted May 10, 2004 02:42 PM            

quote:

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But you know "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" works miracles for the ego.

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posted May 10, 2004 06:05 PM            

Jwhop did post a thread about this: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000337.html

It is true, we are ALL reeling over those pictures. It makes us sick to our stomachs to know that a few of our good men and women turned so cruel. It is not our way to be like that - look at how the soldiers protected civilians - like the woman being shot at as she crossed the bridge during the first skirmish. That is how we train our military - to care about people, not to torture them.

I am so appalled that another human could do such a thing while there is no excuse - Under Saddam torture, rape, the murder of children was the norm and no one said anything.

posted May 10, 2004 07:12 PM              

quote:

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an eye for an eye

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posted May 10, 2004 07:51 PM              

you are not alone in this question. for one answer, please visit my post at

Much Ado and a Hullabaloo too

and i wonder how anyone in the arab world, much less the rest of the planet, can remain so seemingly calm. perhaps the key is in the word seemingly

posted May 11, 2004 01:15 AM              

Seriously? This must be a different country. You aren't talking about the US, are you?

SO, its OK to kill them....

(because you have to admit, the military is about protecting TERRITORY. That's been its essential function for most of recorded history. Its about killing.)

but torture, hey........thats so wrong, it never happens. Torture crosses the line.

I am kind of shocked at the resonse of naitivity by the public. Oh, cmon, its WAR!

What did you expect?

This is what we were told we wanted. Its not pretty. Especially when we get caught doing it. Very poor form, on the global level. I am sure we will slide our way out of any long lasting reprecussions. After all, we didn't sign that treaty with The International Court. No one is going to challenge the US militarily- not yet anyways- until enough of them band together and work their own politics as a unit.

Anyways....blah blah blah..welcome to the end, cue the "end times" screams and killer comets.....but on the better side.......

we COULD change it. We could stop the negativity of the warmongers' energies and challenge it.

Just a thought. Uhhh, is Pluto doing anything funky I should REALLY know about?
Maybe Jupiter in Sag is making me a zealot....dammit.........hehehehhe. Silly Sag, making me say the MOST tactless things, at worst possible moments.

Shucks.

posted May 11, 2004 01:42 AM              

George Bush started to withdraw the US from the international community at the beginning of his presidency. Earlier this year he dismissed foreign objections to his policies by insisting that the US needed no permission slip from the rest of the world to defend itself. At home, he has evaded oversight by Congress on matters of finance, intelligence operations and foreign relations. He sidestepped questioning by the press by holding fewer news conferences than any other modern president.

--------------------------------------------

If you read this was happening to another country somewhere in the world, don't you think something shady is going on?

Don't Americans feel threatened we are successfully pi$$ing off EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD?? May I repeat.. the WHOLE GLOBE.

Do we enjoy having to HAVE such a huge military that we are sucking the economy and the souls of the people who make this country?

Our huge military arsenal didn't protect us from the the BIG EVENT that CHANGED THE WORLD..........must I repeat it?

Nope, no matter what they say, that military didn't save us from an attack. And yet, a clumsy, stupid plan that should never have worked outside the cineplex....did work.

Please tell me how MORE military is going to work...how many more American men and women are going to die, how many more Iraq civilians are murdered by everyone, before we conceed this is SOOOOOOOOOO NOT WORKING.

Sorry folks, my baby brother is going off to war in two weeks. Yes, overseas.

Don't give me the usually spiel... "its volunteer........hes a grown man, he made a commitment." Whatever. My little brother, whom I always see as a 3 year old, could die for bunch of lies.

He turned into a wonderful person, and a real man.

How can any woman who has borne children suffer even more than this? I mean, this guy is my brother, not my child, and everyone tells me that you love your children more than breathing. Why do mothers tolerate that kind of pain?

Mothers control just about everything, so why don't we......mothers and females....stop letting the boys call all the shots... this country still takes issue with "powerful wimmenfolk" no matter how much lip service is given otherwise.

posted May 11, 2004 07:21 AM            

quote:

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We need a military draft, yesterday! Not because we need a bigger military force but to make men out of some who seem to have one too many X chromosomes.

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Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

posted May 11, 2004 12:31 PM            

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.


At the time Kerry was giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy of the United States, North Viet Nam, Kerry was an officer in the Naval Reserve. Upon becoming an officer in the Navy, Kerry swore an oath to protect and defend the United States. A false oath as it has become abundantly clear. His discharge from the Naval Reserve of the United States is dated July 13, 1978.

We have the very words of the General of North Vietnam's military forces to see the effect Kerry's efforts produced and they produced additional dead men and women from America.

Tuesday, Feb. 10, 2004 10:25 p.m. EST
Gen. Giap:
Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity."The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

posted May 11, 2004 12:43 PM            

Section. 8. USC

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To
lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies,
but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia,
and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

posted May 11, 2004 02:17 PM              

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540 &ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded

posted May 11, 2004 09:10 PM              

i am sorry that your question was answered in such a manner

quote:

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First of all, i would like to ask why there are no discussions about the abused Iraqis in Abu Ghraib prison by the American soldiers on this site?

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the plight of these human beings seems to have been forgotten in the midst of all of this fiery, martian energy

only feminine water energy can douse the flames and return sanity to the planet

the energy of love :compassion:

sixness

if we do not find it as individuals, our egos will kill us off just as in atlantis

would you care to join me in meditating about this? in my absence i will be sending some positive energies toward "global unity"

posted May 11, 2004 10:43 PM            

So long as the solders keep going from door to door,house to house and doing raids and taking in prisoners(for the only reasons of being Iraqis)...

So long as we continue on doing the same things to the prisoners like Saddam did to prisoners,for no reason(with the abuse the MPs give to them,even to the death)...

The terrorists will not stop and I'm sorry to say,but I think that all the damage has been done to almost every aspect possible...

I believe that the US will soon come to an end...