posted January 10, 2008 12:37 AM            

by John-Paul Sartre

French novelist, playwright, and exponent of Existentialism and became involved with Socialism in the 1950s. He declined the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1964.

Combining Existentialism with Marxism, Sartre attempted a revision of Marxist theory, stating that “Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself.” Sartre explained that the ultimate responsibility of all humans was first to form themselves; explaining that the effects of one’s environment and historical position were irrelevent next to the power any human has to take to their own path; and secondly that humans had a social responsibility to help society. This position, representing a view of life from a petty-bourgeois position, was directly opposed to Marx who wrote: “The mode of production of material life conditions the social, political and intellectual life process in general. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness.”

quote:

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EVERYTHING has been said about the United States. But a person who has once crossed the Atlantic can no longer be satisfied with even the most penetrating books; not that he does not believe what they say, but that his agreement remains abstract.

When a friend tries to explain our character and unravel our motives, when he relates all our acts to principles, prejudices, beliefs, and a conception of the world which he &rinks to find in us, we listen uneasily, unable either to deny what he says or entirely accept it. Perhaps the interpretation is true, but what is the truth that is being interpreted? We miss the intimate warmth, the life, the way one is always unpredictable to oneself and also tiresomely familiar, the decision to -get along with oneself, the perpetual deliberations and perpetual inventions about what one is, and the vow to be "that" and nothing else--in short, the liberty. Similarly, when a careful arrangement of those melting-pot notions--puritanism, realism, optimism, and so on--which we have been told are the keys to the American character is presented to us in Europe, we experience a certain intellectual satisfaction and think that, in effect, it must be so. But when we walk about New York, on Third Avenue, or Sixth Avenue, or Tenth Avenue, at that evening hour which, for Da Vinci, lends softness to the faces of men, we see the most pathetic visages in the world, uncertain, searching, intent, full of astonished good faith, with appealing eyes, and we know that the most beautiful generalizations are of very little service: they permit us to understand the system but not the people.

The system is a great external apparatus, an implacable machine which one might call the objective spirit of the United States and which over there they call Americanism-a huge complex of myths, values, recipes, slogans, figures, and rites. But one must not think that it has been deposited in the head of each American just as the God of Descartes deposited the first notions in the mind of man; one must not think that it is "refracted" into brains and hearts and at each instant determines affections or thoughts that exactly express it. Actually, it is something outside of the people, something presented to them; the most adroit propaganda does nothing else but present it to &cm continuously. It is not in them, they are in it; they struggle against it or they accept it, they stifle in it or go beyond it, they submit to it or reinvent it, they give themselves up to it or make furious efforts to escape from it; in any case it remains outside them, transcendent, because they are men and it is a thing.

There are the great myths, the myths of happiness, of progress, of liberty, of triumphant maternity; there is realism and optimism--and then there are the Americans, who, nothing at first, grow up among these colossal statues and find their way as best they can among them. There is this myth of happiness: black-magic slogans warn you to be happy at once; films that "end well" show a life of rosy ease to the exhausted crowds; the language is charged with optimistic and unrestrained expressions-"have a good time," "life is fun," and the like. But there are also these people, who, though conventionally happy, suffer from an obscure malaise to which no name can be given, who are tragic through fear of being so, through that total absence of the tragic in them and around them.

There is this collectivity which prides itself on being the least "historical" in the world, on never complicating its problems with inherited customs and acquired rights, on facing as a virgin a virgin future in which every thing is possible-and there are these blind gropings of bewildered people who seek to lean on a tradition, on a folklore. There are the films that write American history for the masses and, unable to offer them a Kentucky Jeanne d'Arc or a Kansas Charlemagne, exalt them with the history of the jazz singer, Al Jolson, or the composer, Gershwin. Along with the Monroe doctrine, isolationism, scorn for Europe, there is the sentimental attachment of each American for his country of origin, the inferiority complex of the intellectuals before the culture of the old Continent, of the critics who say, "How can you admire our novelists, you who have Flaubert?" of the painters who say, "I shall never be able to paint as long as I stay in the United States"; and there is the obscure, slow effort of an entire nation to seize universal history and assimilate it as its patrimony.

There is the myth of equality--and there is the myth of segregation, with those big beach-front hotels that post signs reading "Jews and dogs not allowed," and those lakes in Connecticut where Jews may not bathe, and that racial tchin, in which the lowest degree is assigned to the Slavs, the highest to the Dutch immigrants of 1680. There is the myth of liberty--and the dictatorship of public opinion; the myth of economic liberalism--and the big companies extending over the whole country which, in the final analysis, belong to no one and in which the employees, from top to bottom, are like functionaries in a state industry. There is respect for science and industry, positivism, an insane love of "gadgets''--and there is the somber humor of the New Yorker, which pokes bitter fun at the mechanical civilization of America and the hundred million Americans who satisfy their craving for the marvelous by reading every day in the "comics" the incredible adventures of Superman, or Wonderman, or Mandrake the Magician.

There are the thousand taboos which proscribe love outside of marriage--and there is the litter of used contraceptives in the back yards of coeducational colleges; there are all those men and women who drink before making love in order to transgress in drunkenness and not remember. There are the neat, coquettish houses, the pure-white apartments with radio, armchair, pipe, and stand--little paradises; and there are the tenants of those apartments who, after dinner, leave their chairs, radios, wives, pipes, and children, and go to the bar across the street to get drunk alone.

Perhaps nowhere else will you find such a discrepancy between people and myth, between life and the representation of life. An American said to me at Berne: "The trouble is that we are all eaten by the fear of being less American than our neighbor." I accept this explanation: it shows that Americanism is not merely a myth that clever propaganda stuffs into people's head but something every American continually reinvents in his gropings. It is at one and the same time a great external reality rising up at the entrance to the port of New York across from the Statue of Liberty, and the daily product of anxious liberties. The anguish of the American confronted with Americanism is an ambivalent anguish; as if he were asking, "Am I American enough?" and at the same time, "How can I escape from Americanism?" In America a man's simultaneous answers to these two questions make him what he is, and each man must find his own answers.

JEAN-PAUL SARTRE is the leading French existentiaIist. His exposition of his philosophy has recently been published in this country under the title "Existentialism." He is also the author of a play, "No Exit," which was produced on Broadway last year, and of "The Age of Reason," a novel.

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posted January 10, 2008 02:23 PM            

quote:

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"The trouble is that we are all eaten by the fear of being less American than our neighbor." I accept this explanation: it shows that Americanism is not merely a myth that clever propaganda stuffs into people's head but something every American continually reinvents in his gropings. It is at one and the same time a great external reality rising up at the entrance to the port of New York across from the Statue of Liberty, and the daily product of anxious liberties. The anguish of the American confronted with Americanism is an ambivalent anguish; as if he were asking, "Am I American enough?" and at the same time, "How can I escape from Americanism?" In America a man's simultaneous answers to these two questions make him what he is, and each man must find his own answers.

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posted January 10, 2008 04:37 PM            

I will bet you had the best your caste system has to offer. So now you have allowed yourself to step off your soap box..or shall I say alter... so that you can bing you pseudo words of wisdom to those you think are lower.

Too bad for you... This is an American website.. you are nothing to us and you Bull$hit reasoning is just more of your postering from your dirt poor country.

Spend more time on your own people and make them more than what they are now instead of pointing fingers about how great America is and how deep down you want to be us.

You almost have Penis envy... America having the big dick and your country being impotent.

posted January 10, 2008 04:45 PM              

That's too bad..this would have made an interesting discussion if we could have actually responded with counterpoints in favor of a positive American image, or maybe even describe the American ideology a little better, to give people an understanding of what that means and what we (more or less in unison) believe as Americans.

On a public forum (particularly this one) I guess it's hard to avoid disagreements.

Especially though, I LOOOOOOOOOVED what thirteen had to say, because it was something that hadn't occurred to me before. Thank you! New puzzle pieces make me happy.

I think that you may be on to something.

Thanks again.

daf

posted January 10, 2008 05:20 PM            

The whole us army is ****** up.

They are confused , they don't know who are they fighting.

Pids reaction shows what horse$hit she and her boy must be made of.

Pid the next prez is calling you people back home. I think you and ur boy had enough fun out there

Daf - right. this cud have been great. But people like pid are best only in following orders. They are just pawns. They can't be kings and queens or brahmins LOL

posted January 10, 2008 06:07 PM            

The astrological implications are interesting to consider. Do American citizens represent in some way the Cancerian mindset, and the internal struggles Cancers deal with throughout their lives? That's interesting to think about. It does seem plausible that the U.S. creates a nice nest for people much like Cancers do. I can also see a correlation between American politics and Cancers own struggle between presenting a somewhat Conservative face while maintaining a rather Liberal attitude.

posted January 10, 2008 08:32 PM            

But I don't know how anyone has the gall to suggest that US soldiers are having any "fun" fighting a war. Especially a war that is only being fought by 10% of Americans while everyone else is watching American Idol and complaining about, like, why there isn't peace everywhere. Especially a war where too many people feel sorry for the terrorists who obviously "had no choice" but to commit evil acts. And few want to consider that, aside from the heavy traumas of war, some of the biggest contributors to soldiers committing suicide and/or being homeless are the Dear John letters and the constant harassment by the media and "peace lovers" who only manage to spew hatred for everything those soldiers have sacrificed themselves over for so long. But mention that and what follows is just an exercise in hand washing ala Pilate.

At least you aren't pretending that you actually care about our soldiers, though, Mannu. If you have a problem with our military then you have a problem with our Constitution. We've always had both and we always will as long as we are the United States of America. But we are not bound to live other people's lives for them ... ie, provide people with all the things they need to live for "free", here or abroad.

And why should we when all we get is ingratitude? There is nothing that America can do right in the eyes of the whole world. Imo, there is a greater reason why we do these things and why we are also in such a position. But the minute anyone seriously wishes to discuss these things people lose their manners.

Which brings me back to what thirteen said. I actually agree and have said much the same in the past. I, for one, don't think that God or the Universe or whatever-you-want-to-call-it is an idiot. I believe everything that exists as it is exists for a reason. The wealthy must learn to give charity and the poor must learn to accept it, for example. These are lessons that individuals have chosen to learn for their own progress, imo. But it must be a choice, it cannot be forced ... which is where many modern sentimentalists make their errors. What exactly are the lessons one should learn in life if there is no actual school? Where there is no pass or fail? Where there are no assignments at all other than show up and expect everyone around you to take care of your needs for you? A world where everyone is great at everything is a world where no one is great at all. Hmm, that sounds familiar ....

What kinds of books would we have written without hard work and sacrifice? The Iliad, rewritten ... some people lived in a world where everyone was rich even though nobody ever worked because everything was just there and who had nothing to do because there was no great cause, no people or ideologies or Gods to obey or rebel against, no real reason to exist other than to simply exist and certainly no progress to be made or evolution to be had. Then they died.

Maybe that sounds like some kind of ideal life to the apathetic but sadly for them that is not our reality. Buddha said (paraphrasing here) that when you finally understand just how perfect our world really IS then you will throw your head back in laughter and delight. Yet still I mostly see people staring at their shoes and complaining about the mud. And even that makes me laugh.

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And great Goethe, accepting the inevitable truth that human growth does not proceed in a straight line to its goal, had compared the development and progress of mankind to the reelings of a drunken beggar on horseback.
What was important, perhaps, was not that the beggar was drunk and reeling, but that he was mounted on his horse, and, however unsteadily, was going somewhere.

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posted January 10, 2008 08:54 PM            

quote:

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Especially a war where too many people feel sorry for the terrorists who obviously "had no choice" but to commit evil acts.

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posted January 10, 2008 09:30 PM            

And of course fighting a war cud be fun for some american or any western mind.

Where will all the male agression be directed towards? Rape is getting increasingly difficult, so is paedophile, and spouse beating...

Look at the stats of suicide rate amongst the army people and you will know what i am talking about. Some soldiers were going insane before war and the situation has not improved. Theres one confusion after another. Poor soldiers . I feel sorry for the those who are in to it just to make a living. There are so many lands in America. Go become farmers. Cultivate and be happy.
Missiles could hit America's buildings, but it cannot penetrate their hearts. The whole nation is being led in to believing this is a just war. Even the church is frustrated and supports it i think. Poor church. Destroy all those precious buildings and make it a refuge for the needy. Who needs those tall scary cathedral ceilings ? Who is afraid of hell any more.

Geez.

posted January 10, 2008 09:45 PM            

* Make all the church and other religious places be financially accountable (annual statements mandatory) to government. No exceptions. Be they Benny Hill or other leaders who thinks they are talking to Jesus.

* Bring back all soldiers home.
Stop the vicious circle. Make the soldiers well rounded. Don't make them killing machines.

posted January 11, 2008 03:50 AM            

Jan 10 1984 - The US and the Vatican reestablish diplomatic relations after a 117-year break.

posted January 11, 2008 04:04 AM            

Theres this temple in southern india very famous called Tirupati and people have to pay bribes to get a glimpse of the main idol installed there.

Geez. All this is happening under the government's nose.

Wake up. Enough of religious exploitation of people all over the world. Not just in America.

And farming will help US soldiers (or soldiers of any nations) to be in touch with nature and fight responsibly. Just teaching them how gadgets works is not enough.

Nuff said .

posted January 11, 2008 04:25 AM            

Look at Nixon and his support of nations against Russia at his time.
The bushes are a continuation of his tactics.

Now that Russia is no longer a threat and the biggest threat to US economy being oil. America is really interested in peace in the region for their own stability. They always were and will for next 10 years. I don't blame them for that. But there presense in a foreign country will surely ruffle feathers. there are anti-american people in the middle east. Another major attack is bound to happen somewhere.
This is not an ideal world we live in.
The biggest threat to any nation is from people with in the nation. And america is not a nation but nation of nations. There can be more trouble from inside actually. Imagine - people are always willing to leave USA and enjoy rest of their life in a beach town and they will be ready to sell secrets to any one for money. And question the allegiance of first and recent generations chinese- american, arab-americans, indian-americans, paki-americans, so on. whose allegiance are still with their motherland. Or come to think of ordinary naturally born americans must be fed up with their economy. Theres a possibility one of the scientist/researcher has already leaked a great secret to outside long ago. Sounds fiction. But time will tell. Hope it does not happen.

posted January 11, 2008 04:38 AM            

Let UN or other such global org send their own peace keepers if theres a conflict.
Bush's assessment of Iraq was dead wrong. His actions will backfire someday.

I am hoping iraq will go the way Japan and Germany has gone. The latter woke up from their sleep and American's presense in the war really helped.
The middle east is little different because their psychology is different. People are still executed in the name of God in that country. And people are still ready to die for God.

posted January 11, 2008 05:49 AM            

Lets for assumtion's sake say that we eliminated all the religions and countries of this world and we have a soley secular based world. Human nature still kicks in ma man. Prejudece would take a whole new meaning. If it ain't nationalism, or religion, the it would take the form of genetic segrigation (i.e. my genetic makeup is better then yours Lol!) So we might see a society where those with a... "desirable" genetic makeup would be chosen for those prestegious fields of work and opportunity where as those who don't will end up in the slums; Sort your average highschool stuggle between the Stud and the so called dweeb Lol!

Afterall, isn't it Darwin who introduced the concept of natural selection? Religious free mind you Lol! And you would ask why human kind does this? Well man, like it or not, we ARE in a competing position upon this world where resources are stretched thin and it is everyone for him/herself.

Its unfortunate that originized religion has ended up being the image of corrupt orginizations that exploit for their own personal gain but if you look closely, religion tries to LIMIT the possibility of carnal competition between people and tries to show that resources can be shared for the greater good.

posted January 11, 2008 09:04 PM            

You are spot on but let me add that I do not intend to change the world. It will be a waste of my time and any enlightenened
person who will dare to take such an arduous task. What I posted is the points I live by - I do not expect people to follow or groups to follow.
I am getting much peace these days because eveything seems to fall in proper place.
There is this perfect harmony of Me, World and God in me listening to real life higher conscious persons.

The ancient forefathers had that realization of a bountiful soul in mind when they drafted those statements in the constitution.
Over the years some lousy politicans has given different connotation to ultimate freedom of a man.
The rightists are not totally wrong. Why must the government control too many things in the US.
Conservative means the government must have least control over what it governs.

I am not saying abolish religion. I am for living the true religion. And in reality there is no true religion existing
in this world at the moment save one. Instead of I telling what it is , I think people must come to a discovery oneself. Pick up a book you were led to.
Did some posts referencing those teachers draw you towards them. Empty your self of absurdities and be spontaneous.
Ok topics on religion will never come to an end and I am short on time right now.

>>>>So we might see a society where those with a... "desirable" genetic makeup would be chosen for those prestegious fields of work and opportunity where as those who don't will end up in the slums; Sort your average highschool stuggle between the Stud and the so called dweeb Lol!

Yes the way America and other western society is going, this will happen. Not on earth very soon but yes it will happen eventually.
People will loose their simplicity and innocense and enlightenment will become more difficult for people.

>>>Afterall, isn't it Darwin who introduced the concept of natural selection?
And he is hell of a guy. My God is not a dead God. My God is creative energy. He is verb and he is noun. He is movement and he is rest.
Man has evolved from a worm. It is fact. The bible is just a book. Book of 'faith' based people whose followers took every opportunity to kill 'doubt' based people (Scientists)
Because the bible is book it is inadequate. I can't call it text book because it is not perfect.

>>>>Its unfortunate that originized religion has ended up being the image of corrupt orginizations that exploit for
their own personal gain but if you look closely, religion tries to LIMIT the possibility of carnal
competition between people and tries to show that resources can be shared for the greater good.

Yes, the limiting force worked for 2000 years. Its time to change some things. Again I don't care who makes that change possible.
Perhaps I thinking about it, will set in to action forces in the cosmos that will make that possible
Government makes church organizations obsolete. One of the greatest mistakes the Americans did was to divide state and church.
I am saying this moment those words. And I it makes sense to me. This is what I meant by making those church orgs declare financial statements
to governments or become non-profits corps. Nothing must be hidden from the governments eyes. Practise religion in your homes. Or if you want to practise in group
do so in peace with out hurting other communities.

>>>>Human tendencies unfortunately win out the greater idea of what a religion actually stands for in the end.
Fantastic. You are genius LOL
Once we understand what humanity really means and its futilities we are ready to go back home from when we arrived.
Again this is such a huge topic by itself.
Even the laws that the british and americans feel pride about is absurd. They want to make man responsible for their mistakes.
Punish them and correct them. These jerks have created monsters in that very process. I have personal examples, again I can't go in to details because I have to stay here all nite LOL

And please my message is not for Americans but any nation wishing to be beacon of light to others.

Off my rant podium

posted January 11, 2008 10:04 PM              

i think that also applies to India in many ways.
i have had friends ( americans, europeans etc. ) who were here on a student exchange program tell me wide eyed that not one thing they believed about India or Indians has of yet proved to be true.
even Thomas Friedman who wrote ‘ The world is flat ‘ said on his last visit here.. " I actually came here to interact with the Indian Youth for research for my next book , but instead all i found were Americans "

that one had me laughing for a long time, indeed the flattening of the world seems to shed light on a lot of myths and not all of them are American.

i had joined a Sangha , spiritual organisation run by the main disciple of Paramahamsa Yogananda, who is an American,
the tutors who gave us diksha- Initiaiton were all American, and many of the students had come from across the world.
i went to the prayer meeting in a crisp white designer outfit, rounded off by $ 2000 diamond studs , $500 shoes only to find an American in the simple flowing orange clothes of an Indian hermit, with a beard to beat Osama's , teaching a group of sudents the basics of meditation.

suddenly i felt like i was the American in the room

" An American said to me at Berne: "The trouble is that we are all eaten by the fear of being less American than our neighbor."

if only all Indians thought that
imagine a country with all major world religions, 5000 languages and dialects ,30 states each having their own culture, clothes food, lifestyle....
the only thing that unites all citizens of my country as Indians is Cricket and Movies.

posted January 12, 2008 01:23 AM              

if there is one thing to be learnt from American culture it is the spirit of the Individual Ego , the power of the ego, which is as important as the Indian ideal of egolessness. combining the two extremes has been my path for a while now.

but the fact is America like India too is a melting pot of so many cultures , influences and communities from across the world, there is a strong need to have a myth, just so u can deal with it, the need for a collective Ego identity is universal, the need to conform to that Collective Ego Identity balances the strong personal identity that every American has, which can get very lonely if u go too far

thirteen ,
if only all americans think like that .indeed 10 % of the world population owns 90% of the money.
with power comes responsibility.

PIDAUA

"I will bet you had the best your caste system has to offer. So now you have allowed yourself to step off your soap box..or shall I say alter... so that you can bing you pseudo words of wisdom to those you think are lower."

bet all u want , as much as u and JW want to imagine, the caste system ended the day we became a democracy in 1947, ours is the only constitution that gives all its citizens, irrespective of gender, age, caste, religion, etc. equal rights. The caste sytem today is opposite in reality, we have 50 % reservations in eduation and employment for lower castes so they can progress economically but not a single privilege for the higher ones.

compare that to the fact that a black man earned his right to vote before any American woman of any color was allowed in America , until a century ago.

or the fact that the economic disparities between colored communities and whites in america beats even our Lower caste victims.
are there any economic programmes for the colored ex- slaves so they can catch up with the upper caste whites after 2 centuries of slavery ??

posted January 12, 2008 01:32 AM              

too bad for U Pid,
Mannu is an American citizen
his ******** reasoning comes from a Frenchie, damn all of them

as for Mannu being nothing to “US ALL “ there is no approval of your racist er.. sensibilities by a SINGLE member on this thread not counting the Plato of ghetto sophistication Jw,
neither has anyone posted his/ her affidivat to being a part of UR " US ALL "

Too bad indeed…...... LOL

But Mannu , what u have said about Pid reeks of intolerance and lack of understanding

don’t u even have an idea of how boring it is to be an Army Wife in a far away land,
there is only a net forum and its international, interracial members u can vent ur spleen on , for any excitement.

U men will never know how hard it is to be a woman

"Spend more time on your own people and make them more than what they are now instead of pointing fingers about how great America is and how deep down you want to be us."

uh just to be clear, how does speaking of a country's greatness or the complexites of life tantamount to pointing fingers ???

and i didnt know this freedom of expression - public forum was actually an intervention helpline, with members coming to rescue other members and countries