posted May 03, 2008 07:11 PM            

I think its pretty much over now.

You are a hard act to follow.

posted May 03, 2008 07:13 PM              

Calling character into question is so very different than calling actions into question. I'm glad you've mentioned the topic as this was, in fact, my entire point. Calling into question actions ( harsh words, name calling, etc) is understandable. I'll be the first one to say Jwhop should stop dismissing anyone he disagress with as a stupid pinko commie, but I'll also be the first to defend his essential character. Do you see the difference? Or at least see what I'm trying to express?

I'm not intent on provoking you. I do have a tendency to poke at things, if you will, in an attempt to better understand them. It's never malacious. Although, with another strong person it can be very amusing sport (hi magnus wherever you are!). In fact, this habit comes so naturally that I often don't realize I'm doing it. My point being that I'm sorry if you felt unneccesarily and painfully poked.

If you are truly so concerned with the state of our world, get out there and do something constructive about it. You are a strikingly intelligent man. You have a reservoir of literary and spiritual resources the likes of which many others can not even begin to concieve. You're young and free from obligations. Why are you wasting your gifts? Put yourself to better use than hanging around here telling jwhop he's a bully.

quote:

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But I have often seen what a persuasive chap I can be,
when I really set my mind and my words to it.

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persaude yourself

tink

posted May 03, 2008 07:42 PM            

quote:

---

HSC - I'm sure you've noticed that sometimes when we're hurt or angry and feeling defensive we see and hear things from a skewered persepctive, yes?

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Certainly, I have. And I think it is a very good reason to ban someone
who unrelentingly seeks to provoke people into that hurt, angry, and defensive place.
Not him, but his behavior, needs to be banned. If that means he goes with it, so be it.

He has expressed no remorse or desire to change, so, it is difficult to distinguish him from his behaviors.
All we can say for certain is that his behavior has alienated most people,
and very few knowflakes feel comfortable coming over to this side of the tracks.
In other words, people are intimidated and discouraged from posting.

Perhaps the alternative is to create a second forum for politics,
since this one has already been thrown to the proverbial dogs;
a jwhop-free zone, where people are free to post and share their views
without being subject to a host of malicious insults?

quote:

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I said "if I were a huddled wimpering mess". (Although "quivering mass of goo" is a lovely turn of phrase and I wish I had thought of it myself) Nevertheless, I'm curious as to why and how you might have such a strong reaction to a few words coming from me.

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I didnt think that was an important distinction to make,
but, nevertheless, thank you for correcting me.
Although, I think your words were more like,
"i I were, say, oh, i dont know... a hudled wimpering mess"
and it was plain that you intended to identify me with that mess.

It hurts for the usual reasons, I guess.
Mostly, I cant help seeing through other people's eyes.
It has always been one of my greatest gifts and curses.

quote:

---

Calling character into question is so very different than calling actions into question. I'm glad you've mentioned the topic as this was, in fact, my entire point. Calling into question actions ( harsh words, name calling, etc) is understandable. I'll be the first one to say Jwhop should stop dismissing anyone he disagress with as a stupid pinko commie, but I'll also be the first to defend his essential character. Do you see the difference? Or at least see what I'm trying to express?

---

I do see it, and I try to be careful of that.
I think many of the hurtful things you and others have said to me
were not specifically referring to any behaviors of mine,
but, to how they see me as a person, in general.
So, yes, I think it is a very good point to make,
and it would be wise to make that point to many people.

quote:

---

I'm not intent on provoking you. I do have a tendency to poke at things, if you will, in an attempt to better understand them. It's never malacious. Although, with another strong person it can be very amusing sport (hi magnus wherever you are!). In fact, this habit comes so naturally that I often don't realize I'm doing it. My point being that I'm sorry if you felt unneccesarily and painfully poked.

---

Fair enough.
I think you need to either not interact with me,
as you have suggested in the past, or,
make an effort to be less pointed.
I have the same pointed, playful method,
and sometimes I get a bit too reckless with it myself.

quote:

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If you are truly so concerned with the state of our world, get out there and do something constructive about it.

---

I'm doing what I can.
The first step, I think, is to do no harm.
I've tried to be mindful, at least, of this much.
The next step is to educate the people.
I'm working on that, too.

quote:

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You are a strikingly intelligent man. You have a reservoir of literary and spiritual resources the likes of which many others can not even begin to concieve.

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All true, and much more believable when you say it.

quote:

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You're young and free from obligations. Why are you wasting your gifts?

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I'm not wasting them.
I'm doing the best with them that I can.

The thing is,
along with those gifts,
I also inherited a lot of faults,
which you seem to overlook,
or else, to blame me for.
Do you credit me for my gifts,
in the same way you blame me for my faults?

quote:

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Put yourself to better use than hanging around here telling jwhop he's a bully.

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Thanks for the advice.
But it seemed to me, and still seems,
a good idea to clean up Global Unity a bit.
You know.. "think globally, act locally".

quote:

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persuade yourself

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I am, and I do.

But, understanding, accepting, and being patient with myself has proven far more challenging.

quote:

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I've been called many things, but I must say "complex" is probably my favorite.

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Mine too.

take care
hsc

posted May 03, 2008 11:40 PM            

quote:

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I think jwhop should be banned.

Its the least we can do to show that this site
does not condone and endorse that sort of behavior.

He may be old and stuck in his ways, but that's no excuse.

We are not his family,
and we are not here to babysit him,
and to put up with all of his mental problems

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Speak for yourself man...Your "we" is a very limited number of people...Plenty feel otherwise...

quote:

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He needs help. Medication may be necessary.

Does he have any family to look after him?

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You are so condescending...before you attack anyone please care for yourself....

quote:

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I also find words like "Leftist twit" and "braindead commie" both unnecessary and unpleasant. Sometimes his posts are so outrageous - the Liberals have a mental disorder one comes to mind - I can't help but to think them anything besides amusing. I've asked him to be civil so many times I'm sure I sound like a broken record. For me, none of this is an issue. I don't for a minute think that Jwhop is a morally deficient man. Politics just isn't pretty. I say what I say and if he thinks I'm right or if he thinks I'm crazy, whatever.

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Precisely...while those words are unpleasant I cannot help but feel they are sometimes justified because there have been a number of occasions when people with opposing views have stated similar things to others without any provocation. Jwhop provides a balance. I don't always agree but he has the right to say as he wishes. He is one of the few people who back up his words with pretty good sources. And even the ones that disagree with him would have to admit that he is a man of a lot of knowledge.

quote:

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Here's what I do take issue with - accusations of evil. Throwing up pictures of dying children and wondering how many it will take to get through to our hard cold hearts. Claiming that some of us wish for a more violent world or more polluted environment. That I am playing a part "in the burning and maiming of innocent children". The fact that I don't swallow whole "Ring of Power" somehow makes me complacent in a host of the world's horrors.

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Props! All i can say is props!

posted May 04, 2008 01:34 AM            

Cheers to Jwhop! "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall (wrongly attributed to Voltaire)

posted May 04, 2008 02:23 AM            

quote:

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HSC, I think you're the one who needs medication. And I mean that in all sincerity. Get some help, dude.

---

Bless your heart, Randall.

posted May 04, 2008 02:45 AM            

Randumb,

I thought you should know...

You are a braindead twit.

Now, if anyone takes offense to that, I expect you to defend me to the death.

Because, after all, we know you are an impartial man, and a man of your word.

And not some hurt wittle whiney wittle sniffwing whiner with feeeeewings.

Testing 1, 2, 3, testing...

Is this on?

posted May 04, 2008 02:48 AM            

Of course, you realize...

You are still a braindead leftist commie twit.

posted May 04, 2008 03:01 AM            

I mean, would it convince you of my sanity
if I just responded to every single post I disagree with
by calling the poster a braindead leftist commie twit?

Would you stop accusing me of arrogance,
and of thinking that I am smarter than you,
if I called you a braindead twit a thousand times?
Do I have to desensitize you, or something?

Or is it okay as long as it is directed at somebody else?

Or is it only okay if jwhop does it, because he's Randall's golden boy?

I'm honestly confused as to how logic works in the LL universe.

You think maybe I just need some medication?

I'm so confooosed.

What are you smoking, Randall, thats what I want to know.

I want some of that good sh--.

Turn everything upside down.

Right is wrong, wrong is right.

Groovy man, groovy.

posted May 04, 2008 03:05 AM            

For the wittle baby who doesnt like what I have to say.

posted May 04, 2008 05:33 AM            

quote:

---

He has expressed no remorse or desire to change,
so it is difficult to distinguish him from his behaviors.

All we can say for certain is that his behavior has alienated most people,
and very few knowflakes feel comfortable coming over to this side of the tracks.
In other words, people are intimidated and discouraged from posting.

Perhaps the sad alternative is to create a second forum for politics,
since this one has already been thrown to the proverbial dogs;
a jwhop-free zone, where people are free to post and share their views
without being subject to a host of malicious insults?

---

I think that is a great idea, HSC.

A Global Unity for the people who are "too sensitive",
and a Global Unity for the people who dont mind the rough stuff.

That would be a win-win situation, yes?

That way, the "too sensitive" people are not run out of town,
and the rest of you can keep things just the way they are.

Or, you can just say "F--- You" to the "too sensitive" people,
and think only of yourselves and what works for you.

posted May 04, 2008 06:25 AM            

quote:

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I'm sorry if I don't buy this act of holiness and false humility, all I see is that you both are too cowardly to get involved in real discussions, and prefer to act as if you're above them, coming in to drop a lofty statement that shows how wonderful your perspective is. Anyone that supports Jwhop's behavior has limited perspective.

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quote:

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Many of us here at lindaland are capable of spitting some pretty toxic venom, but I believe that the problem with Jwhop is that his venom comes so freely and so openly. He's an equal opportunity serpent. With Jwhop the only requirement you have to fulfill to be a receptacle for his biowaste is to disagree with his remarkably biased politics. Almost everyone meets this critera.

---

posted May 04, 2008 06:26 AM            

quote:

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For my part, in simple terms:

No one can justify saying that Jwhop acts this way because he's been provoked... No one can justify saying Jwhop is simply mirroring what people give him. No one can justify that everyone else acts equally as offensively as Jwhop.

Want to take a stab at it?

---

posted May 04, 2008 08:28 AM            

quote:

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No one can justify saying that Jwhop acts this way because he's been provoked... No one can justify saying Jwhop is simply mirroring what people give him. No one can justify that everyone else acts equally as offensively as Jwhop.

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You forgot the operative words, AG. No one can justify it to you ... or those who "agree" with you. If some omniscient eternal being brought itself down to your perspective and revealed it to you as some great mystery of humanity in the last moments of your life, you'd likely leap into the abyss assured you knew better. As in, there is no amount of logic or reasoning that can permeate your mental blockade because you simply refuse to accept (1) other people's feelings as valid and (2) that anyone who sees things "your way" should be responsible for their own words. How about, it's the little things that kill ... the snowball effect ... words and deeds as cumulative in relationships? Make any sense at all? Like those people who swear up and down that killing animals is murder (hand up) and who then proceed to call all meat eaters murderers, to their face or indirectly in their presence, at every single opportunity (hand down) ... and who are then absolutely horrified at the nasty, evil people who would call them closed minded or judgemental or just plain idiotic. Surely, their actions are clean as snow and it's everyone else's unevolved stupidity at fault. Wait! I think I'm having a premonition ... of a giant brick wall with sound waves bouncing off it in all directions.

******

quote:

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Is it okay if I just say that once or twice, or do I need to say it a few thousand times before I earn everyone's respect?

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Oh, HSC, if only you could open your soul to the TRUTH. If only you were not BLINDED by your egoic ways. One day you will surely understand the errors of your ways, when you achieve a REAL spiritual perspective and leave the chains of this earthly plane behind. I have much compassion for your misguided meanderings but are assured that the light still shines upon you ... if you would only choose to SEE it. I will keep you in my meditations until the light shines forth from your own being in a blinding brilliance that is its own reward and justification. Then will you KNOW ... and your long suffering, starving soul will be fulfilled in the NOW and be able to flow with the eternal waters of LIFE.

******