posted May 01, 2008 04:13 PM            

But its a good starting point. You can't teleport directly to the deepest points. You have to take a submarine and sink to the bottom, slowly with awareness. And then its gone

posted May 01, 2008 04:16 PM              

The FACT is pure and simple......

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the world will go blind".

Either you believe in the brotherhood and sisterhood of man, or you do not.

And if you believe, feel it, know it to be true in your heart, then logic would conclude that the best way to find happiness is to treat others as you would have them treat you. (It is undoubtedly difficult for us to see through each other's eyes because we perceive things differently in these bodies which limit our consciousness in time and space). But you understand that every person is a part of one big family. Simple.

What do we all want? We all want the same basic things, have the same basic needs.

So just because I quoted the Bible's words "Thou Shall Not Kill", does not make what said untrue. The Bible has truth in it.

Suffice to simple say that each and every life is sacred.

“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

~ Albert

posted May 01, 2008 04:18 PM              

Can't you read my words?

Every life is sacred, I feel.

What part of that don't you understand?

Saddam was evil in his actions, he was a tyrant.

But so is Bush.

posted May 01, 2008 04:27 PM            

Bush freed 50 million people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Your summation is so much pig manure as is your moral equivalence blather pig manure.

If you don't know anything about the Bible, why quote it? Why attempt to use it to further your brain dead arguments?

Noted, you still can't bring yourself to feel the least compassion, no concern and no caring for those Saddam killed and those who terrorists kill...and those are by far and away the most of the civilians who have been killed in Iraq.

Neither have you been able to bring yourself to the realization that compassion is not selective. Like the gentle rain from heaven it falls on all...or it falls on none.

posted May 01, 2008 04:28 PM            

Was it ok to bury Uncle Sam's head in to Saddams ass when he was useful ally against Iran inspite of knowing his background? Who are we kidding really?

>>>It's OK for terrorists to deliberately and intentionally kill Iraqi civilians and no action should be taken against them.

They could have cried for help from international community. Only Americans seems to be having sensitive ears. all other nations are deaf

>>>>Those whom Saddam and terrorists killed and are killing are none of my concern. My compassionate heart only bleeds for those whom Americans kill accidentially.

the iraqis are responsible for their own cause-effect. why bloody your hands, unless your military's hands are itching for war .

Same repetetive reasoning. sorry.

posted May 01, 2008 04:31 PM              

Relax...breathe deep....and allow your mind to embrace the viewpoint of another....it is not necessary to judge; your brain is capable of going beyond the boundaries it has set for itself in constantly making assumptions about how another person thinks or feels; imagining words for them.

Stop!

Let go!

You are free to flow!

posted May 01, 2008 04:41 PM            

But you're the one hyperventilating.

How about this LTT; you don't concern yourself with my health. I've gotten by just fine without your advice.

How about this LTT. How about you climbing down off the pedestal you've erected for yourself as "America's conscience" and "better angel". I've seen nothing off your keyboard to even remotely qualify you for either position.

posted May 01, 2008 04:47 PM            

quote:

---

My problem is this mass attack you've orchestrated on someone's basic humanity.

---

Bullsh*t.

Mass attack, lol.

One or two comments were made.

This would never have snowballed if you and others
didnt decide to make a federal case out of it.

My motive at this point is merely to speak the truth.

Try to understand how that might be possible.

"Orchestrated" ??

All I did was speak my truth, and others agreed. No conspiracy there.

Have you "orchestrated" the "attack" on me by 26Taurus, juniperb, and yourself?
I'm sorry but it just didnt occur to me to suspect something like that.

quote:

---

You claimed you were studying Buddhism. I said that was great. I commented on the trustworthiness of the Eight Fold Path. This qualifies as forcing?

---

Are you serious?
Yeah, Tink, this is what I'm referring to.
No, actually, you were trying to scare me into it
after I expressed my interest in other religions,
by telling me about all how much worse it can get in future incarnations.
Then you proceeded to launch your own "mass attack",
following me all around my thread, arrogantly "raining on my psychedelic parade",
and rudely trying to pressure me into being just like you.

quote:

---

I think you could use a little discipline. You know I think this. I don't think you're ready to actively admit that you need this discipline. I promise you I'm not wringing my hands in anguish over that fact. When it comes, it comes. I still don't see any forcing.

---

LOL I have admitted it from day one,
but,needing discipline, and being able to discipline oneself,
or to submit to discipline from another (which amounts to the same thing)
are very different matters, and we established that,
if there is any way to get through to me, it will not be through your pet method
of dogmatic insistence and constant picking.

You have no idea what it is like to discipline yourself, do you?
You were raised to have a work ethic, were you not?
You were trained, not by yourself, but by others,
and at a time when you were impressionable and unable to resist,
not at a time when you had been habituated all your life to ease.
I bring this up because it is a very palpable reality,
and you cant begin to understand me unless you recognize it.
I am not using it as an excuse, but, rather,
it is one of the only things that keeps me from
completely misjudging and hating myself.
I am struggling to break these habits,
but it is difficult in ways you could probably never imagine.
Not because you lack intelligence (I know you are highly intelligent),
but because it is so far removed from your own personal experience.
I do not ask for anything at all from you but that you stop picking on me,
and give me room enough to heal and find ways that work for me.

quote:

---

I don't see your sensitivity as superior. I think you often mistake sensitivity for immaturity.

---

Dont you mean I mistake immaturity for sensitivity?

I think you often mistake sensitivity for immaturity.

posted May 01, 2008 04:48 PM            

quote:

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As I recently stated, I'd guess in some ways you're more refined than me and in some ways you're less. But I think we'd need someone considerably more refined than both of us to judge. oops I used the "j" word. Is this a race?

---

If this is true, than we need someone more sensitive than either of us
to "judge" which of us is the more sensitive of the two.
I nominate Melody and Listens to Trees, lol.
But, no, this is not a race,
and I dont see why you keep making it into one.
All I've asked is that you dont pick on me, or anyone, for being sensitive,
or vulnerable, or, if you prefer, immature.
We little ones need plenty of love and encouragement.

quote:

---

I'm "picking on you"? Unforgiving and harsh? Look I'm not going to slobber and genufluct, HSC, if that's what you're hoping for.

---

Is it just me, or isnt this a tell-tale sign of not having a leg to stand on;
when you have to exaggerate everything to the oppositie extreme
in order to make any sense out of your own position?
Have I asked you to genuflect or whatever?
No, I've only asked you not to pick.
And yet here you are, picking,
and accusing me of expecting you to genuflect,
when all I've ever demanded from you was a modicum of respect.

quote:

---

You've got plenty of people in the club for that already.

---

Its gotta be the shoes.

quote:

---

I'm at loss. I really am. After everything you've said here, I'm unforgiving and harsh? You know, you've got so much damn nerve ... how can I help but laugh?

---

Why dont you just relax and take a break.

If you are so forgiving and fair,
show me by not escaping into wild exaggerations
and inventing more trumped-up charges to level at me.
Show me by not questioning the sincerity or integrity of those who care about me,
and who have glowing things to say about somebody other than jwhop.

Incidentally, why hasnt anybody proposed a toast to me today?!

posted May 01, 2008 04:50 PM            

quote:

---

Saddam was a murderous tyrant who killed about a million of his own people..deliberately.

Bush freed 50 million people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

---

This should obviously be the focus of the debate.

Those two premises, if not argued or proven false, support jwhop's conclusions that anyone who does not see the logic in fighting this war is "brain dead" as he defines it.

I know that those who believe those premises to be false would like jwhop to answer their arguments that Bush did not "save" people so much as use them as tools to gain power for special interest groups. Since everyone is not as skilled in debate or as knowledgeable on this subject as jwhop, I would actually like to see him argue these criticisms fully and then dismantle them himself with his knowledge. Then others could respectfully point out what they see as possible holes in the logic and there might be a respectful exchange of ideas.
I hope this happens sometime, maybe as even a separate thread. Maybe, when you had time jwhop, you could write a short position paper on the topic that would educate others. And you could answer questions after to refine your views and the views of others. I know I would enjoy that presentation, and I think many others would as well.
And if others found any holes or flaws they could be answered and polished and the work could be published elsewhere.

posted May 01, 2008 04:56 PM              

Melody, I think your idea sounds like a good one.
Although would be a lot more fun to discuss things with jwhop, I feel if he became a little less close minded in his own viewpoints and a little less rude- just my opinion (and, I might add, the opinion of many others, many of which have left GU).

posted May 01, 2008 05:04 PM            

quote:

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Steve You are doing such a good job.

---

Thanks, Mel!

quote:

---

One thing I admire about HSC is he is willing to admit his faults, which is more than a lot of people are willing to do.

---

Aww, you noticed!

posted May 01, 2008 05:20 PM            

Some of us here do , on a daily basis, everything we can to make the world a better place. Some don`t sit glued to youtube and post horrible pictures that would rip the guts out of you. We`re too busy attempting to make the difference being preached about..

I work for the capitalist buck. I have no say in how my tax money is spent. As much that goes for war and other atrocities, it also goes to Medicare, Social Security, Aid for Dependant Children and medical care for the poor and so on. We take the bad with the good.

I don`t sit around bemoaning the state of the world. I get out and do what I can to contribute to "the good" we all desire so badly. I contribute my time and money where and when I can. I vote and I write and write my Representives for change. Am I one in a billion saving the world? No but I sleep real good at night knowing I have done as much as a person can in such a huge worldly deficit.. I`ve heard talk is cheap so while my heart is crying for them, my mind and body is busy doing what I can to make the difference.

How do you know that one of us haven`t lost a loved one in the war, are adoptive parents of one of those needy children or chair charitys to help Darfur??? Do you really really believe you are the only hearts beating tears in this worlds ugly

mess?

juni

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 01, 2008 05:42 PM            

>>>. I have no say in how my tax money is spent

Thats why its not so easy to be an honest politician. They are not just sitting on the chairs at capitol hill and warming it. They are under taking many responsibilities such as those you mentioned of many people. They are there because we are here. And therefore I do not take pleasure in criticising them. I kindda know what some of the honest ones goes thru doing such a job.

posted May 01, 2008 05:44 PM              

Juniper, I have said before and I will say it again- I admire what you do. I might do something similar, if I could. I am not able to keep animals here as it is against the tenancy agreement. I would love to find a meaningful job, and every day I feel depressed because my hands are tied- it is a complicated issue I do not care to go into because if I did people would only twist it to use it against me.

I was involved in activism, as I have mentioned before, but I found the ways corrupt, and I cannot follow something I do not wholeheartedly agree with.

If the internet is a way for me to keep my mind active, or to express, or to connect with others, why condemn me for it?