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Topic: Is this racist?
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Mannu Knowflake Posts: 45 From: always here and no where Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 19, 2009 06:31 PM
From Delano's cartoon on NY post 02-18-09 I wonder who is coward now?
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katatonic Knowflake Posts: 6024 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 19, 2009 07:02 PM
i don't understand your comment/question at the bottom?IP: Logged |
Dervish Knowflake Posts: 625 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted February 19, 2009 09:52 PM
Probably not, as it brings up a point...but I do believe that a chimp was specifically chosen because the cartoonist knew it would cause controversy, which would draw attention to his work. (Maybe if I were to understand what the actual connection between the chimp attack story is to the stimulus package, I might change my mind, but so far the connection between them eludes me.)Btw, the controversial material here is well-done IMO. You have not only racial issues brought up, but also presidential assassinations and making light of out of control police violence. While I dislike it on ethical grounds (too "Jerry Springerish" for my tastes), I can't help but begrudgingly admire his creativity in drawing (excuse the pun ) attention to his work. IP: Logged |
Mannu Knowflake Posts: 45 From: always here and no where Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 02:49 AM
May be the artist is trying to incite emotions in us. Some cry babies will see that chimp who is gone crazy as Obama. Ironically, the same people would have rejoiced when Bush was attacked with the shoes. I like that mockery of liberal hypocrisy. It also makes fun of controversial NYPD shootings in the past. A third opinion could be that officer is Italian and so is Pelosi (from california). Is she being portrayed as being ineffective for the mess this country is in ever since she became speaker of the house more than two years ago? IP: Logged |
Mannu Knowflake Posts: 45 From: always here and no where Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 03:09 AM
Kat, I find very few people who are able to laugh at their own targetted jokes. I go with the flow when they make fun of my nationality or accent or whatever they find funny. Thast is I too laugh at myself. Psychologists says, its very healthy to do that.
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Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 05:59 AM
it may not be racist, but it could be viewed as insensitive. After all, blacks were viewed as monkeys,compared to them and even called monkeys. Some still view blacks as monkeys. Therefore, monkey is often viewed as racial slur by blacks. The n'word definitely is. I hate being called that word. I know what it's like to be called that word. I was first called that word on my 9th birthday,and that's what introduced me to the "Black Experience I wasn't offended by the chimp thing. I am just explaining things from from the black perspective. After all, I am part black from my father's side. Like Obama, I am the offspring of a white mother and black father. I don't view Obama as black either. I didn't get into the hoopla about the first black US president being elected because I don't view Obama as black because his mom is white just like mine is. I wish people would get over the one drop rule(you are black because you're part black). Honestly, I get annoyed when people try to pin me down as black. I want people to acknowledge all of me and not just part of me. A lot of people think that I am other things to like Hispanic,Pacific Islander,or Arab. I really don't like being viewed as the last one because of all the prejudice against Arabs that's going on now. I accept that my Portuguese,Spanish ancestry from maternal grandfather's side contains Arab ancestry because the Moors occupied Spain and Portugal for 400 years. Therefore,it's no surprise that Moorish ancestry is evident in me as I see it evident in my maternal grandfather.
any ways...I wish we get rid of the one drop rule, so mixed people (especially people born from an interracial relationships) can feel free to embrace,acknowledge ancestry quite freely without people giving us a hard time and trying label us. Many of us cave in to society and accept the black label because that's how society sees us because they can't get past skin color. I am not one of those people. I embrace,acknowledge all my heritages. If people don't like it, the hell with them.
I am more sensitive about words like "retard","stupid","idiot","moron or any other words that imply low intelligence because of my special education experiences and being treated like I am stupid. I hate it when people use those words against ANY body...not just me. I don't like when people talk down to people. We're all equal because we are all human beings. None of us superior and none of us are inferior. Also you can't judge a book by its cover. People can be far more intelligent than they are perceived. It's often people that are more linear,leftbrained type of thinkers that view more nonlinear,rightbrained type of thinkers as stupid.....especially when most schools have teaching methods that are mainly for the linear,leftbrained type of thinkers which leaves the nonlinear,rightbrained type of thinkers out in the cold.
another thing.....please don't generalize about liberals.....ok?
I didn't like it when a lot of liberals talk crap about Bush because he makes mistakes when he talks,and say that shows how stupid he is. I have the same type of speech problems myself,and I am not stupid. I had speech therapy to correct a lot of speech problems or else I'd be autistic-like. I would never view Bush nor anybody else as stupid because they have difficulties with speech. I don't like anybody viewed as stupid. After all, people have viewed me that way,and I hated it. Being in special education and being called "retard" on a daily basis by regular school children gave me lessons in humility. It's the main factor in my treating others like I want to be treated. I also believe my multiracial background is the second main factor too and my main factor in my believing in Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's dream. It took a Pisces Moon lead the civil rights movement too. I feel honored to share the same moonsign as him and my father who also had the same type of ideals. I was born in San Francisco too.....the perfect place for an interracial couple like my parents to meet and have a child. Raymond
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NosiS Moderator Posts: 145 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 11:04 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/16/chimp.attack/index.html IP: Logged |
NosiS Moderator Posts: 145 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 11:07 AM
I added the link just in case anyone was lost, as I was. I hadn't heard about this story until now. Very strange... IP: Logged |
writesomething unregistered
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posted February 20, 2009 11:34 AM
I was having this discussion with someone yesterday and i said the guy just wanted attention to his work. He responded by saying "why would anyone purposely try to get attention by using racism? that kind of attention is usually not seeked out"...which made sense...but then again i said maybe he thought people would never think he'd be that stupid and obvious, and he assumed he could use racism, and get attention....the possibilities are endless...but there are bigger issues in the US right now...focusing on this cr@p for longer than 1 day is stupid.IP: Logged |
katatonic Knowflake Posts: 6024 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 12:45 PM
mannu, i still don't understand the "coward" question...whether it's racist or not it is a political cartoon and people are entitled to their opinions about it. that is what political cartoons are meant to do, stir up controversy. and fortunately free speech is still at least nominally a part of our constitution. which doesn't mean i think it's okay to call brown people chimpanzees, which is pretty obviously what he's doing. could be he is saying the policemen come from that point of view, after all the jails are more likely to be full of dark-skinned people (who will spend more time in jail for minor offenses than whites). the point i would li ke to make, mannu, is that while the cartoonist has the right to his point of view, and so do you, i object to generalizations that liberals are all whining victim-conscious idiots - as much as i object to liberals saying equally hateful and general if different things about conservatives. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 4415 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 03:04 PM
If it's not racist, then it's devoid of coherant thought. IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 04:22 PM
There's nothing racist about that cartoon whatsoever. Of course, you wouldn't know that if you don't know:All spending Bills originate in the House of Representatives...by decree of the United States Constitution. Therefore, O'Bomber did not write the Porkulus spending Bill. That Bill was written by Emporess Pee-Lousy, David Obey, other Socialist House Members, lobbysts and special interest groups...not by Barack Hussein O'Bomber. Therefore the chimp shown in that cartoon is intended to be a representation of the brain dead halfwits who actually wrote the bill and has nothing whatsoever to do with O'Bomber. A similar Bill was introduced in the Senate of the United States...also not written by Barack Hussein O'Bomber...but rather written by Socialist members of the Senate, including Harry Reid and the same special interest groups and lobbysts.
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katatonic Knowflake Posts: 6024 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 04:33 PM
precisely. most people wouldn't know that or even if they did would still consider it obama's bill.IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 4415 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 04:58 PM
Jwhop,So a SINGLE chimp to represent hundreds of people, you're saying? Interesting. And you wouldn't associate a chimp with the primary entity calling for the stimulus package, namely the President? That's an interesting way of looking at it. Usually in these political newspaper cartoons the message is clear. This one is just baffling. We're to suppose a monkey wrote the stimulus package, but we're not clear on who the monkey represents. If it was supposed to be Democrats, a donkey would have made the message clearer. The police shot the monkey dead with the only implied rationale being that the monkey was the writer of the stimulus package. Does writing a stimulus package qualify one to be shot by police? What law would that fall under? Wouldn't a dangerous public menace (one that warrants lethal force) be better represented by something other than a monkey?
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jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 06:08 PM
Hahaha , you're jumping to the conclusion the cartoonist had the police shoot the chimp BECAUSE he wrote the Porkulus Bill.The cartoonist was engaging in commentary and imagery as to the intellectual abilities of the people who wrote the Porkulus Bill...Chimp like. I agree with the cartoonist and I'm not in the least confused by what the cartoonist was saying. The police haven't had to shoot a donkey..lately..but police officers did shoot a chimp which went off the deep end and severely injured a woman. O'Bomber didn't write the Porkulus Bill. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 4415 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 06:30 PM
Ok, so the monkey was being a public menace, and had to be shot. Where is the person the monkey was attacking (to show that this is why the monkey was being shot)? It's a very poorly designed cartoon, and if I were editor I would have sent the cartoonist back to the drawing board. IP: Logged |
katatonic Knowflake Posts: 6024 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 06:42 PM
did you write the cartoon yourself, jw, or is the cartoonist just a close friend of yours, that you know exactly what he was getting at?? obviously a lot of people did not see it the way you explained. and a cartoon is by definition open to interpretation.IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 09:13 PM
Perhaps you've found your niche in life acoustic. You could shoot for "Cartoon Editor" at the NY Post. Think of all that power over the content of cartoons. IP: Logged |
NosiS Moderator Posts: 145 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 20, 2009 10:49 PM
"obviously a lot of people did not see it the way you explained. and a cartoon is by definition open to interpretation."Yes, it seems many are displeased. A cartoon is open to interpretation, but it is also open to misinterpretation. I commend the NY Post for having the courage to publish a cartoon that expresses the opinion of many tax-paying citizens without fearing the backlash of racial-warmongers. On the other hand, if anyone should be insulted then it would have to be the individuals who had to suffer the events that occurred during the unfortunate tantrum. Only in their perspectives can the cartoon truly be seen as insensitive since it makes light of their personal experiences. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 4415 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 21, 2009 12:39 AM
You're aware of Howard Cosell's big monkey gaff, right? I'm not sure I agree with your "racial warmonger" sentiment.I could be interested in hearing how you link a monkey attack to a stimulus package attacking people. I think only time can tell if your sentiment is correct in that instance. IP: Logged |
katatonic Knowflake Posts: 6024 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 21, 2009 01:04 PM
has the cartoonist replied to all this brouhaha in any way? does he care to explain his intent? jwhop since you know him perhaps you could persuade him to speak for himself.or maybe he just wanted to provoke thought and get attention? to me a good cartoon doesn't leave too much room for doubt about WHAT THE XXXX the guy MEANT!! IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 21, 2009 03:21 PM
The cartoonist doesn't need to explain a damned thing. Everyone gets it...except for those in the Perpetually Offended Club, those who are ignorant as to who wrote the Porkulus spending Bill and those who believe they have a right to pick the pockets of the producing class in America.
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katatonic Knowflake Posts: 6024 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 21, 2009 03:55 PM
don't you mean everyone who doesn't agree with you? i don't get it, nor do i fall into any of the categories above. it's just a frigging cartoon. as i said earlier, we fortunately still have a modicum of free speech and he is entitled to print anything he can get printed. i just don't see that the intent is that cut and dry.IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 21, 2009 05:08 PM
Good, we can agree. The cartoonist is free to draw whatever he wishes and everyone else is free to like it...or lump it.Supporters of the Marxist Socialists in the Congress and of the Marxist Socialist O'Bomber are going to be "lumpin it" like a perpetual motion machine over the next 2 years, 4 years and 6 years until we get their bloviating, chair warming as$es out of the Congress and White House. IP: Logged |
Dervish Knowflake Posts: 625 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted February 21, 2009 09:06 PM
Just for the record, I'm not offended, but I don't really get it, either.Would've made more sense to have Godzilla shot down, IMO. Ok, here's a GOOD one on a previous bill (more than one panel, but makes a lot more sense): http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2959 IP: Logged |