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Author
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Topic: There is no such thing as karmic justice
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BlueRoamer
Knowflake Posts: 2627
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted May 17, 2007 05:30 PM
 
Everyone seems to believe if you do good you'll receive good, if you do bad you'll receive bad. But if you look at reality you see people getting away with murder with no consequences. Wonderful people being stricken down with disease in their youth.There is no karmic justice, and it makes me sad. 
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lotusheartone
Knowflake Posts: 10685
From: piopolis, quebec canada
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 17, 2007 05:46 PM
BlueRoamer,that is because it carries from life to life, the debts that have not been paid,
Forgiveness, is the Key, coming full-serpent-circle, ending the karmic cycle.. otherwise, it just keeps going back and forth! LOve and Reverence to ALL. ...
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Linnk
Knowflake Posts: 93
From: norway
Registered: May 2007
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posted May 17, 2007 05:56 PM
I believe that... well. If one truly regrets ones sins that one will go to heaven  And that... Well. People dying in their youth and stuff? Tough luck. Bad things sometimes happens to good people. One just has to accept it, and make the best out of it. Or maybe we live more than once? I don't know. But if so, then I suppose ones purpose in that life is over. Or maybe you're a really good person but you end up in a wheelchair. Then I guess it's because there's something you'll need to learn in life, and the wheelchair is going to help you to do so. There's a reason for everything, even though it may not be obvious right here, RIGHT NOW. It is my opinion that we live to learn. And that in the end... It'll all be alright IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
Knowflake Posts: 10685
From: piopolis, quebec canada
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 17, 2007 05:58 PM
Linnk, Good Post!  IP: Logged |
BlueRoamer
Knowflake Posts: 2627
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted May 17, 2007 09:43 PM
You have both offered theories that you did not come up with yourself.You read about reincarnation, or about heaven, in a book, heard it on tv etc.. If not for someone else coming up with these ideas you might never believe in them. And it is belief. You can offer me absolutely no proof that these things exist. No one can. You guys can believe whatever you want, but that doesn't work for me. It's simply not good enough. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
Knowflake Posts: 10685
From: piopolis, quebec canada
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 17, 2007 09:59 PM
BlueRoamer,You are right, how can I prove it?
I have shared my experiences here,
and what has been shone to me, and
even then, this is not proof! "The Proof is in the pudding."  pudding = duping
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Dulce Luna
Knowflake Posts: 3534
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted May 17, 2007 10:10 PM
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Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 1205
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted May 17, 2007 11:28 PM
BlueRoamer~ I agree.IP: Logged |
BlueRoamer
Knowflake Posts: 2627
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted May 17, 2007 11:49 PM
Lotus~ Just because you can rearrange letters in a word to spell another word does not mean they mean the same thing or have any relation to eachother. It is a fun trick though Gooberz and Dulce, Glad someone feels me. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 6766
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 18, 2007 12:25 AM
I believe in nothing, but consider probabilities, possibilities, and theories.
Without proof absolute I do not believe in any of the stories or myths, or legends.
Faith is not proof.
Belief is not factual knowing.
I agree BlueRoamer.
Bad things happen to good and bad people.
It is just the luck of the draw and what bodies do.
Lotus 
Pudding?
No "proof" there!
did dig din ding dip dud
dug dun dung duping
gin gnu gun I id in nip
pi pig pin ping pudding
pug pun undid up ------------------
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
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Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 918
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted May 18, 2007 12:34 AM
God says "Be ye merciful as I am"So well said BR God forgives every one easily and often. I love the judicial system here on earth of the west than the east. Is there an observer who watches us all the time? Quantum mechanics is baffled with that observer , why does he (if I may use genger) lay out paths before us. Are we and the observer one? The Matrix movie is so close to putting forward the hypothesis of our illusional world. There are some gurus who told me, you are in the matrix or you are one with the source. When you get tired of the matrix, go back to the source. I think Ramana Maharishi once quoted an anology "to be the sugar or be the ant and taste the sugar. which is sweeter?" Well some believe the very nature of sugar is sweetness, so you are every blissful being just that.
I will post some more stuff, in future.
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 6766
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 18, 2007 12:46 AM
Matrix.
An illusion.
Yet with individual self identities.
Real life.
Not illusion.
It may not always be pretty but it is real and
self identity is intact.
Source?
Returning to a Oneness.
Loss of any identity. All you were exists no more.
The true death of awareness of being which requires self identity.
I choose the World of The Real.
But maybe our universe is just someone lighting a flame and poof all gone in a cosmic second.
Or maybe we are holographic programs.
What is reality?
What is illusion?
I think, therefore I think I am, I think I think I think I am, I think... ------------------
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
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Linnk
Knowflake Posts: 93
From: norway
Registered: May 2007
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posted May 18, 2007 06:24 AM
You said, BlueRoamer: "You have both offered theories that you did not come up with yourself.You read about reincarnation, or about heaven, in a book, heard it on tv etc.. If not for someone else coming up with these ideas you might never believe in them. And it is belief. You can offer me absolutely no proof that these things exist. No one can." How can you say that I have not come up with my believes myself?!? I know NO ONE who believes the same things as me! And as to my parents and friends? Well lets just say they're like you. They believe in nothing, and I can't change that. My believes is something I MYSELF have come up with through experience and FEELINGS. And Fayte.m, YOU said: "Faith is not proof.
Belief is not factual knowing." Well no, of course not. Have you all forgotten? The whole point with faith, believes, and religion is that you can not know for sure with what we call facts. Faith is having no physical proofs, and still believe. And why do one believe? Because of what the heart tells you. Not what anyone else can tell you. Even so, religion and having faith in something is very healthy. It gives you hope. Maybe even a reason to live, and it gives you comfort. Beliefs is a good thing. Besides... You can't physically prove feelings, can you? But you know they're there. And you can't see air, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist! Don't be so naive as to only believe what you can see and touch with your own hands, it's more to the world than that. And even astrology is a belief. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
Knowflake Posts: 10685
From: piopolis, quebec canada
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 18, 2007 07:44 AM
Dupe: one easily deceived or cheated.So, if you can figure out the deception, you will have some proof. I have shared, what I know, I have my own proof, I know it is not your proof. ... Love and Reverence to ALL... . IP: Logged |
lalalinda
Moderator Posts: 2172
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted May 18, 2007 11:55 AM
The most important part of your spiritual life is your faith.
With faith proof goes out the window and belief comes from within.You know enough about astrology to know that everything comes in cycles.
Highs and lows. Our life tests. I promise, God does see everything.
Its a very stupid person who thinks he's getting away with it. It is not up to us to question someone else's karma, that is for God.
He has a plan and when we're ready for it, he will reveal it. keyword here kiddo is faith. (something Pisces and Sag deal well with) lotus, who needs proof when God is already dealing with it? You assume too much. IP: Logged |
Lialei
Knowflake Posts: 1485
From:
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 18, 2007 12:36 PM
Neptunian cross.At times, pleading for blindness. Cover my eyes
and let me sleep
the river sleep
of a faraway place
where my Soul felt at home
and free Scattered glimpses of the Universe beyond. Starlit,sparkling meaningfullness,
peeking here and there
behind misty, forbidding clouds
beckoning,
sadistically taunting a rememberance.
One of my greatest struggles,
I don't have the comfort to give,
that I wish I did.
I try to keep my other senses
honed into the Realms of the unseen and unspoken, rather than focusing for hope from the world. I try to hope there are harmonies of strings somewhere out there, coming together in time.
And even though it remains yet Unheard, Unseen to us here,
somewhere it all has meaning.
You often will not find justice, validation,
encouragement for quiet beauties here. It's a matter of faith, seeming blind faith, yet I hope the Faith that's truly most Seeing. IP: Logged |
BlueRoamer
Knowflake Posts: 2627
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted May 18, 2007 06:08 PM
All these responses interest me. I see each persons response as a part of myself, and perhaps you all see what I write as a part of yourselves.
Fayte I identify with your skepticism, your anger towards people who accept things to easily. I feel your WHAT THE F??? You don't buy into things easily and you follow your own path.
Lotus I see how you lose control. You are overwhelmed by life, your thoughts, the pressure. You are like a child kicking and screaming to be heard to be loved and appreciated but not knowing how. I feel like this all the time. SOMEONE love me, PLEASE. It's never enough though. Lala I understand your blunt approach, I feel that way at times. "Look people this is the way it is so just accept it." It's dogmatic, it provides no evidence, it's just force, and sometimes its necessary. Link I idenfity with your innocence and optimism. People like you that have a naive innocence are important. I feel this way rarely, but I agree it's important to bleieve. Mannu I like your objective and analytical approach, you're very reasonable, you see things from many angles. You seem to possess great wisdom. Lia you're one of the only people I've ever met that I can tell truly gets me. Your poem captures something that jsut can't be explained with one word. There is no emotion for this. Longing? Suffocation? Reverie? It's so hard to describe, but you have done it. I detest that feeling. Maybe there are some strings, some web out there, maybe not though. I suppose it does require faith, but faith is something I have trouble with. I have only mastered doubt. I believe we both share a penchant for spirituality, we both have a sense of connection to something, something we're unaware of or perhaps all too aware of. But I am full of rage, and hate and anger, this is something I do not see you expressing. I feel that anyone who crosses me should be punished, swiftly, with force, and under the law. I feel my revenge should find their greatest fear, rip my enemies weaknesses to the surface and exploit them, torture them with psychological warfare. Revenge is truly a dish best served cold. If there is no god to take care of justice, who is to say we should not take it into our own hands? I'm tired of being the big person. Bowing it and folding to preserve peace, being compassionate because I fear some sort of karmic justice or reprimand. Why do I think some god is gonna come strike me down for pushing people back? I'm tired of being silent. IF someone walks on me I wanna walk all over their face times 10. That way they'll learn their lesson and wont' do it to someone again. And another thing, I don't believe in love anymore. At least not for me. I see a typical sagittarian life of failed romances ahead. Real love is ******** . Every day I am haunted by ex lovers, and it tires me, they dance through my thoughts and dreams tormenting me, vexing me, destroying my confidence. I want to burn them but I cannot, they cannot be removed. what was that one movie with jim carrey where he erases his gf? IP: Logged |
Linnk
Knowflake Posts: 93
From: norway
Registered: May 2007
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posted May 18, 2007 06:29 PM
I think you mean "sunshine in an unknowing-mind" or something. Or is that another one?? I'm really touched by what you write now, BlueRoamer. I feel you're very honest and opening up. Earlier when I replied to your posts I just felt angry, or maybe upset in a kind of way. I don't know. I agree that you shouldn't let people walk all over you, yet revenge may not be the best way? You know... I once had an enemy. She really hurt me. You know what I did? I made a friend of her! I FORCED her, litterally. By manipulation. Not that I had much choice, we share the same circle of friends. But it's a looong time ago, and we're bestfriends today. See... I hurt her to. And I stepped all over her aswell, so it's OK. I think conflicts erupt simply because people don't get eachother. They misunderstand, and they're not patient enough. It is my belief that you can make a friend out of anyone As to you not believing in love, hearing so makes me very sad. Love is a gift, and I think you'll see that some day. One day you'll fall hard, and you'll be acting like a fool just like the rest of us<3 Btw, since you obviously enjoy poems, I'll share my personal *mantra* with you: Could we but draw back the curtain
That surrounds each others lives
See the naked heart and spirit
Know what spur the action gives
Often we would find it better
Purer then we think we would.
We would love each other better,
If we only understood. Take care <3 IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 6766
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 18, 2007 07:14 PM
BlueRoamer, Linnk, Lia and Mannu 
Very interesting discussion here and I can relate to all of it at different points and crossroads in my life to date.
BTW BR
You pegged an aspect of me very well! quote:
Fayte I identify with your skepticism, your anger towards people who accept things to easily. I feel your WHAT THE F??? You don't buy into things easily and you follow your own path.
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~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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InLoveWithLife
Knowflake Posts: 1308
From: Wonderland
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted May 18, 2007 07:35 PM
quote:
I'm tired of being the big person. Bowing it and folding to preserve peace, being compassionate because I fear some sort of karmic justice or reprimand. Why do I think some god is gonna come strike me down for pushing people back? I'm tired of being silent. IF someone walks on me I wanna walk all over their face times 10. That way they'll learn their lesson and wont' do it to someone again.
actually, this is the quandary i often find myself in. its a very tough one. to fake forgiveness, or to express anger. i try to hold my anger in, but personally it doesnt work. it comes out in passive aggressive ways, and that makes it worse. then it is like my anger which i pushed to the back of my mind subtly takes control of me. so no matter how imperfect i am, i gotta be myself. i have to express anger if i feel it. most times as soon as it is expressed, i regret it, which makes it worse. but then atleast tht remorse is real. it is not fake. it happens because i realize how futile and may be even uncalled for that anger was. and then i can forgive and ask for forgiveness. and its real. quote:
what was that one movie with jim carrey where he erases his gf?
the movie u r talking about is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. IP: Logged |
InLoveWithLife
Knowflake Posts: 1308
From: Wonderland
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted May 18, 2007 07:38 PM
quote:
One of my greatest struggles,
I don't have the comfort to give,
that I wish I did.
I know what u mean by that Lialei. IP: Logged |
NAM
Knowflake Posts: 557
From: Sunny place.
Registered: Jan 2007
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posted May 18, 2007 07:44 PM
Blueroamer~ I have no answers and no proof of anything for you, but from my personal experience I beleive that if you do good and believe and keep a positive outlook you will be fine in the end.
It may seem people are good when maybe they are not as good as you think they are.In the end you only have control of you, so why not try for the best you can be and the most you can give. JMO IP: Logged |
BlueRoamer
Knowflake Posts: 2627
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted May 18, 2007 07:47 PM
It is eternal sunishine.Nam how many times must you be beat down and cut back only to have to come back again with a smiling face and a positive attitude? Is there not some point where you just can't grow back again? IP: Logged |
InLoveWithLife
Knowflake Posts: 1308
From: Wonderland
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted May 18, 2007 07:49 PM
quote:
There is no karmic justice, and it makes me sad
In my life, i find karmic justice. or may be thts the way i like to feel. I often find tht if i put myself in the place of those people who i feel can 'get away' with things, i realize tht i wudn't want to be them. i would be miserable inside. As for the people who 'get everything', tht is more tough. i try to tell myself that may be they dont have what they really want, and it is because i value what they have that they seem to be 'lucky'. infact, i know i have a certain luck in some areas of my life, (and i know that it is enough reason for someone who doesnt hv it to be envious of me), but then when it comes to what i reeeally reeeeally want, its a whole different story  IP: Logged |
InLoveWithLife
Knowflake Posts: 1308
From: Wonderland
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted May 18, 2007 07:59 PM
There's a song playing here right now on the radio, i'd like to translate it for you. (life is personified here) Tujhse naaraz nahi zindagi, hairan hoon main
I am not angry with you life, just confused and sad. Tere maasoon sawalo se pareshan hoon main
I am baffled by the questions posed by you. Jeene ke liye, socha hi nahi, dard sambhalne honge
I never imagined i'd have to go through so much pain just to live Muskurayen to, muskurane ke, karz utaarne honge
If i smile, i feel like i have incurred a debt (which must be paid later)
more later, i gotta run now
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