posted May 25, 2013 05:53 PM            

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posted May 25, 2013 05:59 PM            

What I am saying is the basis of what you are being taught is not Biblical in and of itself.

Common Sense would tell any believer, on a Spiritual/Gut level, that the Most High is not "done" with them.

Fascinating little sidelight, in Ezekiel 35-38 the Most High mentions a large hail storm that will utterly destroy Israel's enemies.

Fast forward to today, we know there is a huge asteroid belt in this Galaxy that would certainly do the job.

IE, one of the pieces are in place for those that will see them, to those that won't, really do not know what to tell them tbh.

Consider the 12 tribes that were taken into Captivity by Assyria, seemingly never to return. Could it be possible that the underlying reason for that happening is now those 12 tribes have spread their DNA across mankind for well over 2,000 yrs?

We know Mitochondral DNA is passed down through the Mother and stays in a lineage and is very trackable.

Depending on the initial population that went into captivity we are looking at hundreds of millions of people who have Hebaru Ancestry, maybe more.

posted May 25, 2013 06:00 PM            

Israel did suffer for her disobedience but God knew she would do this and God provided a plan of redemption for individual Jews( to be saved) and for all of Israel to be saved in the Tribulation.

Replacement Theology throws out the Jews and replaces them with the Church. God chastised the Jews but he still loves them, provided redemption for them, will fight for Israel against ALL nations in the Tribulation and will save every Jew who is alive in that time period.

That probably sums it up

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posted May 25, 2013 06:02 PM            

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posted May 25, 2013 06:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I have not studied the Divorce thing with Israel but it may be that He divorced Israel as a [b]wife and took a new bride--the Church but there are many, many references to His everlasting love for Israel such as the story of Gomer and many, many others.

Israel did suffer for her disobedience but God knew she would do this and God provided a plan of redemption for individual Jews( to be saved) and for all of Israel to be saved in the Tribulation.

Replacement Theology throws out the Jews and replaces them with the Church. God chastised the Jews but he still loves them, provided redemption for them, will fight for Israel against ALL nations in the Tribulation and will save every Jew who is alive in that time period.

That probably sums it up

[/B]

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Divorce is far beyond chastisement AA, if one reads the OT and sees what was involved in a divorce decree it was always very public, this was no secret thing.

So do tell, if the old mosaic covenant is still in effect, what was the point of Christ's death and resurrection?

Once again, what normally happens is Gen 12 is quoted, the other Covenants are never mentioned as it is inconvenient to an agenda.

Don't misunderstand it's not a bad agenda, certainly no evil in it, however, it also is not very Biblical.

posted May 25, 2013 06:19 PM            

You can ask me anything Padre. I am not afraid of what the Bible says. I may have to research things but I am not afraid of any new revelations, so don't worry about that.

OK about your question. The Mosiac Covenant was not abrogated by Christs death and resurrection. They are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. One does not negate the other. That was the point of my article.

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posted May 25, 2013 06:22 PM            

If I had 3 children, I would have a relationship with each one.I may have trouble with one, disobedience, but I don't throw them away. Also, you have to remember that God chose the Jews as His covenant people but KNEW they would disobey. He provided a way for the Gentiles to come into covenant FROM that but he never threw the Jews away. That Romans verse should show you that about the olive tree and the wild and natural branches.

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posted May 25, 2013 06:24 PM            

I don't understand what you are asking. Please quote the Scriptures in context and then ask the question

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posted May 25, 2013 06:25 PM            

So what does that mean in practice?

It means the Most High is not some sort of monster who wants to ban, crush, cast out, destroy, he looks for reasons not to do such things.

posted May 25, 2013 06:29 PM            

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posted May 25, 2013 06:30 PM            

In writing to the believers at Rome, Paul had to deal with an issue common to all people: pride. Regarding Israel, Gentile believers had come to some erroneous conclusions and had “become arrogant toward the natural branches” who are the Jewish people, (Rom 11:17).

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posted May 25, 2013 06:31 PM            

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posted May 25, 2013 06:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The point of my article was that there are DIFFERENT groups of people. They have different relationships with God. One does not throw away another.

If I had 3 children, I would have a relationship with each one.I may have trouble with one, disobedience, but I don't throw them away. Also, you have to remember that God chose the Jews as His covenant people but KNEW they would disobey. He provided a way for the Gentiles to come into covenant FROM that but he never threw the Jews away. That Romans verse should show you that about the olive tree and the wild and natural branches.

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THAT is incorrect, it would mean there was no need for Christ's birth, suffering, death and resurrection.

This is why Hebrews was quoted, if one wishes to "how to study the Bible II" one should then study it and not put forward an agenda.

That is poor teaching and is more akin to propaganda then teaching.

Put another way:

quote:

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Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

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or

quote:

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38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

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posted May 25, 2013 06:33 PM            

In Romans 11:17 it is critical to understand that only “some of the branches were broken off.” People may say that God is now through with Israel as a national witness, however Paul says it is only the unbelieving natural branches, as many as they may be, that are broken off from Israel. Unbelief, disobedience, brings loss of service. But think: was God through with Israel during Elijah’s day? (see 11:2-5).

No. In fact, Israel as a witness nation was both then and “at this present time” continuing on through the believing natural branches, and including the testimony of the grafted in wild branches, Gentiles such as Ruth and Rahab, Luke, and you (see Josh. 2, Heb. 11:31)! If you’re a Gentile you too have been grafted in among them, not to replace Jews, but among the Jewish people, to make them jealous (11:11)! Jewish believers are not grafted into a Gentile Church. Quite the opposite: Paul says that Gentile believers, as wild olive branches, are grafted into a Jewish tree!

Spiritual Horticulture
For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? (Rom. 11:24). Usually a cultivated graft is placed into a wild tree to attain its vigor and to produce cultivated fruit. But God took the wild fruitless branch and grafted it into the cultivated olive tree. God worked contrary to nature: like ‘round pegs in square holes’. By grace He brought Gentiles to believe in His Jewish Messiah, by Jewish prophets, Jewish apostles, and Jewish scriptures, into a Jewish hope!

http://www.messianicassociation.org/ezine17-sn.olive.htm

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posted May 25, 2013 06:38 PM            

You are 10000000% wrong. Jesus died to save mankind. People could not be saved until after Jesus died and rose.

In OT times, people were "saved" by faith but never went to Heaven and were not really saved as we know it, in a NT way.

They went to a part of HELL that was called Abraham's bosom or Paradise. People wait here to get to Heaven. People could not be saved in the OT cuz Jesus had not died.

Once Adam sinned, God put the ENTIRE plan of redemption for man in place. The OT was one phase and the NT was another phase. You do not see the UNITY of the Bible, Padre.

You have glaring errors in near sighted thinking. The Bible is one book from the beginning to the end. It is about the salvation of mankind. It is not about one group beating out another to be God's most special.That is 10000000% wrong. All men can be saved but they have to come in the way their Dispensation said.

It is about how God came to save all men. It is His plan. Each time period fits in, as a piece of this larger puzzle.

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posted May 25, 2013 06:40 PM            

quote:

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1I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

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Yep, dual covenants, uhm...no.

There was a 40 yr period where there were dual covenants, do you know when that was and what The Most High had to say about it?

posted May 25, 2013 06:44 PM            

NOOOOO The Jews were blinded, in part, so the Gentiles could come in. That is why Paul bemoaned the Jews not being saved as a corporate body. It was only as a nation that the Jews were blinded, in part. Each Jew, like me, can get saved.

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posted May 25, 2013 06:45 PM            

Who is talking and to whom and when!!!

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posted May 25, 2013 06:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]THAT is incorrect, it would mean there was no need for Christ's birth, suffering, death and resurrection.

You are 10000000% wrong. Jesus died to save mankind. People could not be saved until after Jesus died and rose.

In OT times, people were "saved" by faith but never went to Heaven and were not really saved as we know it, in a NT way.

They went to a part of HELL that was called Abraham's bosom or Paradise. People wait here to get to Heaven. People could not be saved in the OT cuz Jesus had not died.

Once Adam sinned, God put the ENTIRE plan of redemption for man in place. The OT was one phase and the NT was another phase. You do not see the UNITY of the Bible, Padre.

You have glaring errors in near sighted thinking. The Bible is one book from the beginning to the end. It is about the salvation of mankind. It is not about one group beating out another to be God's most special.That is 10000000% wrong. All men can be saved but they have to come in the way their Dispensation said.

It is about how God came to save all men. It is His plan. Each time period fits in, as a piece of this larger puzzle.

[/B]

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posted May 25, 2013 06:48 PM            

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posted May 25, 2013 06:49 PM            

I don't know. Where? Is this a huge point

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posted May 25, 2013 06:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]Yep, dual covenants, uhm...no.

NOOOOO The Jews were blinded, in part, so the Gentiles could come in. That is why Paul bemoaned the Jews not being saved as a corporate body. It was only as a nation that the Jews were blinded, in part. Each Jew, like me, can get saved.

[/B]

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The time of dual covenants was in between Christ' Resurrection and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, about 38 yrs or so.

Here is what the Most High had to say about it:

quote:

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Heaven is My Throne
1Thus said the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that you build to me? and where is the place of my rest? 2For all those things has my hand made, and all those things have been, said the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembles at my word. 3He that kills an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrifices a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offers an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burns incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yes, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations.

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Here is the payout:

quote:

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Hear that uproar from the city, hear that noise from the temple! It is the sound of the LORD repaying his enemies all they deserve.

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posted May 25, 2013 07:24 PM            

see, this God is against sacrifice!

Is there more than one God here?

a true one
and a false one!?

posted May 25, 2013 07:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Emeraldopal:
Heaven is My Throne
1Thus said the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that you build to me? and where is the place of my rest? 2For all those things has my hand made, and all those things have been, said the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembles at my word. 3He that kills an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrifices a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offers an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burns incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yes, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations.

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No, not at all, the Most High honors sacrifice if done with an open heart.

The need for the blood of animals etc, was done away with once and for all.

posted May 25, 2013 07:31 PM            

I can't follow the point of this. What is the upshot?

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