posted May 25, 2013 07:34 PM            

God is ALL
Knows ALL

has always known that
any blood sacrifice is wrong!

what you are saying doesn't
make sense...illogical...

posted May 25, 2013 07:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Here is the payout:

[QUOTE]Hear that uproar from the city, hear that noise from the temple! It is the sound of the LORD repaying his enemies all they deserve.

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Once again, this is also never mentioned.[/QUOTE]

I have no idea the point of this. God did "pay back" Israel for her disobedience. That was the partial blindness to the Jewish nation but if God is done with the Jews, how do you explain the 144,000 Jews who will witness in the Tribulation. How do you explain Jesus coming back and fighting all the nations on the SIDE of Israel. How do you explain "All Israel will be saved?"

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posted May 25, 2013 07:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]The time of dual covenants was in between Christ' Resurrection and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, about 38 yrs or so.

I can't follow the point of this. What is the upshot?

[/B]

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One was speaking of dual covenants, that only happened once in history and the Most High made it clear that he despised it.

Now it can be said "hah! you mentioned the Noahadic Covenant applying to all mankind!"

Indeed, now read them:

quote:

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Man's responsibility to populate the earth is reaffirmed (Gen 9:1, 7).
The subjection of the animal kingdom to man is reaffirmed, but now it will be administered under a new relationship. Whereas previously man and animal coexisted in peace and animals most likely fully cooperated with man’s care and maintenance, now the animal kingdom would fear man and be dominated by him (Gen 9:2).
Man is permitted to eat the flesh of every "moving creature" outside the realm of man. It is suggested that initially man was a vegetarian but after the curse of the Flood, man's allowable diet was expanded to include the animal kingdom (meat) -- which involved killing an animal. The only exception, which is in fact carried over into the New Covenant, is that man is to refrain from eating blood, the "life of the flesh" (Gen 9:3, 4).
The sacredness of human life is established. Since man is made in the image of God, one who commits murder shows not only contempt for man but also contempt for God (Gen 9:5).
Whatever sheds man's blood, whether man or beast, must be put to death. This is seen as the institution of human self-government (Gen 9:6).
The covenant is confirmed with Noah, his sons, their descendants, all the animals on the ark and their descendants (Gen 9:8-10).
The earth will never again be destroyed by a universal flood (Gen 9:11). The next time God destroys the earth, the means will be fire (2 Peter 3:10).
The rainbow is established as a sign of the Noahic Covenant to both God and man signifying that God will never again destroy the earth by a universal flood (Gen 9:12-17).

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What people do not realize is that there was a mingling of the supranatural with the mundane in those days, the situation become bad enough to require a sort of cosmic reset.

posted May 25, 2013 07:37 PM            

Do you mean the Nephilim etc?

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posted May 25, 2013 07:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emeraldopal:
Padre35,

God is ALL
Knows ALL

has always known that
any blood sacrifice is wrong!

what you are saying doesn't
make sense...illogical...

---

In that period of time?

It made perfect sense, keep in mind this was the Bronze Age, to offer animals for the daily ritual was to part with something that actually mattered to the person so doing.

Men being men however, they stopped giving their best animals for it and offered diseased ones etc, and of course the priests would over eat their portions etc.

What Christ did was obviate the need for such things, at that time reading entrails was very very common in that region.

posted May 25, 2013 07:39 PM            

AT any rate, what are you trying to say in plain English? God is done with the Jews? Something like that that you are saying sideways. I think you are getting lost in the trees and do not see the forest.

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posted May 25, 2013 07:40 PM            

So, you are saying that God
evolved, changed his Mind?

posted May 25, 2013 07:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]What people do not realize is that there was a mingling of the supranatural with the mundane in those days, the situation become bad enough to require a sort of cosmic reset.

Do you mean the Nephilim etc?

[/B]

---

Yep, that was the remnants of the destruction in Gen 1:1-2, and what Jude was speaking about, basically DNA was being corrupted on Earth and if it continued the world would look very different then it does today.

Thus the flood, but, if one reads with understanding one realizes there are many things hidden in the narrative. Since it reads like a fairy tale to modern man thus those nuggets are rarely examined.

posted May 25, 2013 07:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emeraldopal:
Padre35,

So, you are saying that God
evolved, changed his Mind?

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No, what I am saying is His plan was further revealed, if one reads about the Mosaic Covenant, God himself said he gave them laws he knew they could not and would not follow.

posted May 25, 2013 07:44 PM            

It was a preplanned failure, with Christ being the actual plan brought forward.

YES, I agree. Can you tell me in plain English what you don't agree with, with me?

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posted May 25, 2013 07:47 PM            

so, he asks for sacrifice, demands it,
plans for our failure, then God does not
want sacrifice?

I AM
The Alpha and the Omega

God would not set us up that way..

Mother and Father GOD do not play
Mind Games. ...

posted May 25, 2013 07:48 PM            

Thus the flood, but, if one reads with understanding one realizes there are many things hidden in the narrative. Since it reads like a fairy tale to modern man thus those nuggets are rarely examined.

Ok, I accept that the Bible is super multi layered. That is cool but the main things like the groups and time periods are core. Do you agree with this?

posted May 25, 2013 07:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I don't know every little detail like dual covenants. No person, even the greatest master, can know all the nuances of the Bible. It is like Astrology, in that sense. IQ is a master but I have introduced him to asteroids he was not aware of.

AT any rate, what are you trying to say in plain English? God is done with the Jews? Something like that that you are saying sideways. I think you are getting lost in the trees and do not see the forest.

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What the Bible teaches is this:

Christ is the new covenant, however, as per Romans some Hebarus will be saved as a Remnant (Sheyareth) just from His perfect Grace.

Whom they are, no one can say, however He did say he would do exactly that, "though your progeny be as many as the grains of sand on the beach, only a few will be saved" etc etc.

That is Biblical and keeps our Brothers and Sisters in Judah as fruit on the tree so to speak.

Which further would justify some of the pro Israel teaching despite, not because of, their poor Biblical scholarship.

posted May 25, 2013 07:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emeraldopal:
hmmmm,

so, he asks for sacrifice, demands it,
plans for our failure, then God does not
want sacrifice?

I AM
The Alpha and the Omega

God would not set us up that way..

Mother and Father GOD do not play
Mind Games. ...

---

Sure he did, He knows "us" to a "T"

quote:

---

So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live; 24Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols. 25Why I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; 26And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that opens the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

---

Ez 20;20-25

posted May 25, 2013 07:58 PM            

Christ is the new covenant, however, as per Romans some Hebarus will be saved as a Remnant (Sheyareth) just from His perfect Grace.

Whom they are, no one can say, however He did say he would do exactly that, "though your progeny be as many as the grains of sand on the beach, only a few will be saved" etc etc.

That is Biblical and keeps our Brothers and Sisters in Judah as fruit on the tree so to speak.

Which further would justify some of the pro Israel teaching despite, not because of, their poor Biblical scholarship.

OK Lets leave this as the Church is saved Jews and Gentiles. Do you agree with this. *I* am a member of the Church.

OK--I don't quite get all your points but how do you justify the olive tree reference in Romans for the Gentiles not to get haughty as the Jews are the root but more importantly how do you justify the Tribulation which is ALL about Jesus,Himself, fighting all the nations on the side of Israel and ALL Israel will be saved?

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posted May 25, 2013 08:04 PM            

-if the Trib is required to redeem Israel (w/means God Struggles btw) then what does it say about Israel's status today?

-Paul also never said ALL of the branches were broken off to make room for the Gentiles, he said "branches were broken off to make room for me". This is where the Remnant comes into the picture.

posted May 25, 2013 08:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Padre35:

Alright:

-if the Trib is required to redeem Israel (w/means God Struggles btw) then what does it say about Israel's status today?

-Paul also never said ALL of the branches were broken off to make room for the Gentiles, he said "branches were broken off to make room for me". This is where the Remnant comes into the picture.

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Today, the Jews as a nation are NOT SAVED but God is not done with them. God will set His attention back on the Jews during the Tribulation but Gentiles who hate Israel will pay by being cursed based on "I will bless thee that bless thee and curse thee that curse thee. None of God's Promises are abrogated.

However, Most Jews in this time period, the Age of Grace,will go to Hell. Most are blinded and will not be saved due to the blindness but if an individual Jew calls out to God, God will answer. That happened to me.

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posted May 25, 2013 08:07 PM            

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posted May 25, 2013 08:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emeraldopal:
So, God acts just like
human beings?

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Well, answer me this, are we made in His image?

posted May 25, 2013 08:08 PM            

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posted May 25, 2013 08:13 PM            

For in Heaven God has no
Image, he and she
just are -
made of Love and Light,
no physical body to
make an image of...

our Soul is like this!

This is where, I think we
are speaking of an Alien
who came and made us in HIS
image and set himSelf up
to fool everyone...

what do you think?

posted May 25, 2013 08:14 PM            

Because Israel is blinded, most Jews will not be saved. Is that what you did not think I understood, Padre?

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posted May 25, 2013 08:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, the remnant is saved Jews like me

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Actually not that way AA, there are Hebarus who will be saved by the Most High simply out of His Grace, they may have never confessed a Faith in Christ, it is His unmerited favor bestowed upon them.

THAT is what David was alluding to (via Paul)
Romans 4:6-7

quote:

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6Even as David also describes the blessedness of the man, to whom God imputes righteousness without works, 7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

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That is how the Remnant works AA, it makes little sense to "us", to the Most High though it is simply his choice.

posted May 25, 2013 08:17 PM            

This is 1000% wrong Padre. The remnant is not some esoteric thing. It is the Messianic Jews. ALL people must get to God through Jesus in THIS Age of Grace!

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