posted December 10, 2009 03:33 PM            

I think that is the difference. For the most part I had nice teachers, and therefore had some sort of personal connection to them (well not all of them, but some), and so, when I was lying my way out of school, I did feel guilty, and of course I had to keep to my story at home. My Mum is a Scorpio Sun and Mercury with Moon, Venus and Mars in Virgo. She can practically smell the tiniest lie, not even thought about yet. lol

LOL at the chewing gum.
Well, are you sure you got away with it or maybe your teacher just thought your excuse was too good?
At least that is what I sometimes tell my pupils: "Either you tell me the truth or you invent an excuse that is amazingly, dazzingly creative. Don`t insult my brain with something like: The dog has eaten my homework. Try: "The tree wanted his cellulose back" instead."

But the pupils with creative excuses are rare. Most are too lazy to even lie.

posted December 10, 2009 03:34 PM            

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As far as Gemini, I'm not sure that I agree that too much Gemini can lead towards a deceptive nature.

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I half agree. One of my close friends is a Gemini - Sun, Moon & Mars. She has an Aries Asc & Venus. I'm not sure whether this is the Aries side to her, but she criticizes lying constantly, even small white lies.

posted December 10, 2009 03:42 PM            

My mother is a Leo/Scorpio Mars. She was usually on my side though. If I had a bad day and made something up & left school - my mum didn't care. As long as I did my school work, it wasn't really an issue to her whether I attended or chewed gum or "wore the correct uniform" (yes we still have uniforms in Australian high schools lol)

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LOL at the chewing gum.
Well, are you sure you got away with it or maybe your teacher just thought your excuse was too good?
At least that is what I sometimes tell my pupils: "Either you tell me the truth or you invent an excuse that is amazingly, dazzingly creative. Don`t insult my brain with something like: The dog has eaten my homework. Try: "The tree wanted his cellulose back" instead."

But the pupils with creative excuses are rare. Most are too lazy to even lie.

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I think a few of them did actually believe it LOL

Do you enjoy being a teacher yourself or does it get frustrating? (kids can become frustrating at times I'd imagine)

Coffee -

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Vapor. You. Are. A. Bit. Odd.

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posted December 10, 2009 03:48 PM            

1st chart has 3rd ruler square to Mars, 2nd ruler. 2nd is 12th from 3rd, which can indicate (by the negative aspect) Neptunian (read: DODGY) communication.

posted December 10, 2009 04:08 PM            

well, honesty is the most important thing to my mother, and she would never have excused me if she had caught me lying.
On the positive side she wasn`t really upset with not so good marks (as long as it was a pass), as long as I had tried my best.
But lazyness and dishonesty -those are mortal sins to her.

Oh luckily we don`t have schooluniforms over here, even thoug from time to time this talk comes up.

WEll, sometimes I am frustrated, but most of the time I enjoy being a teacher. It depends on the classes, too.
Thank God there are so many different individuals. And not all pupils are lazy, indifferent, arrogant and well stupid.
Though those who are really drive me insane I must say.
But then the same goes for adults with these traits, too.

Coffee,

that is interesting about 2nd house. Never thought about it before, but it makes sense.

Hmm let`s see, in equal I have Venus on 6 Cap conjunct 2nd house cusp on 7 Cap, squaring Pluto in 11th house.
Ruler of 2nd house, Saturn, is retograde in cancer in 8th house, quinkunx Moon in Aquarius in 3rd house.

posted December 10, 2009 06:40 PM            

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Don`t insult my brain with something like: The dog has eaten my homework. Try: "The tree wanted his cellulose back" instead."

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It's funny that you mention this because one day, my dog really DID eat my homework. I had to make a dish for my cooking class in middle school and when I woke up the next morning---the roast beef I made was gone.

I am well aware of the tired excuse of "the dog ate my homework." But in my case, it was actually true. I did tell my teacher the truth of what happened, but she didn't believe me. Maybe I should've tried to lie.

posted December 10, 2009 08:54 PM            

Lies of that nature have always been "no sweat" for me. If a friend asks me to go out to dinner on Friday night and I'd rather hang out in pajamas watching TV, I will usually lie and say I have other plans. I have found that most people become outright insulted if you just tell them you'd rather hang out at home than see them. It's socially expedient to lie at times, and I have zero guilt about it.

I lied quite a bit to my parents when I was younger, especially in my teens. They were stricter than any other parents around, and I wasn't allowed to do things that every other kid could do (like wear eyeliner at age 17, or date at age 17, or see R rated movies, etc). So at times I'd find a way to do those things and lie about it. I think that's where I got all the practice lying. I never felt it was "wrong" per se. I always felt justified in doing so.

I dunno, is it my Mars in the 12th?

posted December 10, 2009 10:05 PM            

I'm almost exactly the same (other than the parents part, because mine were not strict so I had no reason to lie to them)

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Lies of that nature have always been "no sweat" for me.

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Same Here..

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If a friend asks me to go out to dinner on Friday night and I'd rather hang out in pajamas watching TV, I will usually lie and say I have other plans.

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Yes! me to..

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I have found that most people become outright insulted if you just tell them you'd rather hang out at home than see them.

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Exactly! They do get insulted.

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It's socially expedient to lie at times, and I have zero guilt about it.

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We must be soul sistas.. We're lying, cheating soul sistas *kiddin* lol

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never felt it was "wrong" per se. I always felt justified in doing so.

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I agree. I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel justified lol I guess it's a matter of privacy and personal space. With certain things, I feel as though it really isn't anyone's business. But if I told them this, they would get offended, so it's just easier to lie.

My ex bf (with Scorpio Merc/Pluto/Saturn) was annoyed with me about this.
Not because I lied per se, but because he couldn't understand why I care enough about people to refuse saying "leave me alone. it's none of your business"
My Piscean placements are just not into that.

Even the chewing in class, at the time I thought - well it's my mouth, I'll put what I like in it. You and your social rules can bite me. They interfere with my basic human rights.

Obviously I couldn't say that ^ I guess if I was an Aries person with an Aries Mercury, I would've said it and stayed there (or in the principal's office) for the following 5 hours arguing my point.
Sometimes I was tempted ^, but ultimately I just couldn't be bothered lol

I have no planets in the 12th, only Chiron. What are your other placements?

_____________________________________________

I just realized I said above

- I can lie but I don't usually feel as though I have a reason to (if I did have a significant reason to lie, I would lie) - Sun in Aries, Merc/Jupiter in Pisces & Mars conjunct Neptune (they always pick on this aspect about being extra deceptive) -

When I used the word lie here I was not referring to what I see as little white lies (crabby-girl style).
Those occur very frequently. I don't need a significant reason for lying to someone about having made other plans or whatever.. It's enough that I don't feel like going out that particular night.

posted December 11, 2009 02:58 AM            

Same sign yeah, but degrees with plus-minus 15 is what I look at.

Looking at your chart as an example to follow on from theory, the 12th from 3rd = 2nd. The Neptune part of the communication.
So I guess if the lying bit could be 2nd house, the sign on the 2nd would show why you do lie if you do.

I have Pisces on there, so a Pisces reason - to escape a situation. With Capricorn on the 2nd, lying to maintain social status is order of the day.

posted December 11, 2009 04:18 AM            

now I remember, you were the one with the astronomical orbs.
Hmm, but couldn`t it be a trine with 16 degree orb?

posted December 11, 2009 04:46 AM            

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Hmm, but couldn't it be a trine with 16 degree orb?

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.. and it's also a trine by sign

posted December 11, 2009 04:49 AM            

25 degree Sag in 1st house conjunct Sun on 26 degree Sag.
No other aspects, at least not with the narrow orbs I am using. No 15 degree orbs for me actually.

posted December 11, 2009 06:00 AM            

Not the best square to have.

Considering your Sun & Mercury are conjunct in Sagittarius, it makes sense that you would value honesty.

Actually fire sun signs in general have high ideals. In a sense I'd like it if everyone could just be honest. It would make things simpler.

posted December 11, 2009 06:49 AM            

I think there are certain moments, when the truth can hurt someone unneccessarily.

Just like for example:
I really really like my friend, but it might happen that when she calls me I just am not in the mood to communicate with anyone.
Now of course usually I would tell her exactly that, but let it be two or three times in a row, that she just catches me at the wrong time.
In those cases I think a little white lie wouldn`t hurt her as much as the truth.
Well, of course she always knows when I am lying as I know exactly when she is lying to me.
Actually it was her who taught me to use these little white lies now and then and not get too upset with myself. Of course she is calling that "diplomacy". (She is right, it is not always the wisest thing to call your boss an ******* , even if he acts like one; even though I still prefer to just say nothing in these cases).
BTW she has Virgo-Sun and Cancer ASC with a huge conjunction of Mercury, Venus, Mars and Pluto in Libra. BUT her Moon is in Aries opposing this Libra stellium, so she does value honesty when it comes to important things.

Astra,

yes I am aware of the fact that sometimes dogs actually eat homeworks.
In the case of my aunt it was even her little budgerian.

Hmm, today I heard another excuse for coming late (I fear the boy was serious):
"It`s not my fault. I am late because of the weather conditions." (It has been raining a little bit).lol

posted January 28, 2010 05:52 PM            

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"It`s not my fault. I am late because of the weather conditions." (It has been raining a little bit).lol

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posted January 28, 2010 06:30 PM            

I love your sense of humour.

as for liers. dont know, my moon and mercury in geminy (2nd house) qunqux neptune in seventh. I have saturn in 12 but makes a trine with moon and mercury. on the other hand, my jupiter has harmonious aspect with sun, mars and AC.

i am not lier just because i dont like to hurt others. i alsways feel responsible about my impact on others with my words.... but... i now how to lie... so the criminal vapor was mentioned wont get me if i need to lie to get away.

i think that capacity to lie lies in believe whatever message u want to convey... once u beleive ur own lie, it is so easy to deceive others.... but what do i need to lie? i always think on the negative karma of using other people for my own benefit....but again, if it wont hurt anybody, a joke, i can lie....or if somebody is intruding in my life, i can lie to get rid of them and not give explanations, or just to be silly or tease somebody... anyway.. i dont feel guilty about lying. when i have done it, i have done it consciusly as the best thing to do with my resources, it is problem solving skill, i think!

ok, time to go to bed...

good night to all