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Author Topic:   Orb Degrees?
Polo C
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posted December 25, 2009 07:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
I know that 10 degree orbs are the MAX for synastry, but why?

I have heard that if two planets are in the same same, even if the orb degree is wide, the effects can still be felt. For instance Venus / Pluto 14 degrees. This should be too wide to be felt, shouldn't it? Does the degree determine how soon or how quickly we feel the effects, or do they determine the intensity of the effect without affecting the speed at which we feel them?

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BeholdAstarte
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posted December 25, 2009 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeholdAstarte     Edit/Delete Message
i think pluto being a really far planet wouldnt really be as affected as say an orb of venus and mars by 12 degrees. i think the tighter the orb the more its laid out in your personality

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Polo C
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posted December 25, 2009 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, but what if it is Venus or Mars that Pluto is in aspect to? I read somewhere that Venus conjunct Pluto will take us to the heart of unconditional love. I have this aspect with someone and through the spiritual struggles we are constantly having to endure, unconditional love has definitely been the end result.

Here is an excerpt _

quote:
Pluto conjunction Venus:
What does it mean to your relationship when your natal Pluto is in conjunction with your partner's Venus? You are drawn by a passionate sexual attraction and re-attraction. Your intensity deepens over time rather than lessening. A desire to control, manipulate or sexually dominate your partner may well be a part of this mystical binding that begins with physical passion and through spiritual struggle and transformation seems to go to the core of unconditional love. If your partner's Pluto is conjunct your Venus, a complete transformation of your attitudes about love and relationship will occur as you and your partner work through an intensely passionate physical and spiritual love, where your partner's fascination with you can become an obsession, and issues of trust and acceptance are aroused and resolved between the two of you.

That sums it up to a tee. My Venus conjuncts her Pluto, but the orb is at 14.44 degrees so what gives??? My Pluto also conjuncts her Mars, but that produces a different effect.

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vapor-lash
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posted December 26, 2009 01:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
Polo -- First of all - whether or not you technically "have" this aspect.. does not rule out what you feel. If this is what you feel for each other, then it is what it is!
You may feel that way for whatever reason. Pluto is not the be all and end all of relationship depth and attraction.

quote:
Pluto takes 245 years for it to travel through the 12 signs. It has an elongated elliptic and spends a dissimilar amount of time in its travels through the constellations of the zodiac. For instance, it takes 30 years to transit Taurus and 14 years to transit Scorpio and it will be in Capricorn for 16 years.
http://www.marymaclean.com/photos/transits/plutos-transit-thru-capricorn

The problem is that Pluto (being an outer planet) is generational. If you take a 14 degree orb that equals several years in Pluto motion. Absolutely everyone born during these years would have the exact same aspect with her Venus.. This is why astrologers usually use very tight orbs for outer planets.
Most astrologers would be reluctant to give someone an interpretation of Venus/Pluto – as though it is a strong part of their relationship – when in reality the Venus person has this synastry with an entire generation of people. They normally use a 2 degree orb for outer planets (as far as I know).

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Polo C
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posted December 26, 2009 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
Ah, okay... That was helpful. 2 degree Orb you say? I Got cha!
Thanx!

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Lara
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From: aspideronmars
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posted December 26, 2009 04:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
3 degree orb for everything - max!
2 for outer planets and Pluto isn't even a planet!!!

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Polo C
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posted December 26, 2009 04:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
3 degrees for everything! So, are you saying that if the contact is more than 3 degrees that it shouldn't even be considered an aspect? If so, I need to go back a re-calibrate everything I have done. Why do you say 3? Isn't that kind of tight? Surely a 5 degree Org would be considered relevant, right?

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DD
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posted December 26, 2009 05:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with Lara. 3 degrees.

Unless a planet is aspecting a tight stellium, then I would make allowances.

Example:
My ASC is 7 Sag
my NN is 10 Sag.

Let`s say someone has a planet on 5 Sag. I would consider that planet to be also conjunct my NN (even though the orb is 5 degrees), because my NN and ASC are inseparable unit in my chart.
But of course the conjunction to NN would be considerable weaker than the one to ASC.

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Polo C
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posted December 26, 2009 05:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
Really? Considerably weaker? It's only 2 degrees! Oh well, I will have to redo my synastry then. Shucks! Honestly though, things don't appear to be this way in the actions and behaviors of the people I observe. I mean, what is the purpose of keeping the degrees so tight if they exclude obvious effects? Astrology seems more of an art with people deciding, for subjective reasons, what will and wont be excluded.

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Unmoved
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posted December 26, 2009 05:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
I also use 3 degrees max, as Lara and DD - but I will look at 4 degrees if a personal planet is advancing. If it is separating, then I will leave it at 3 degrees.

Polo C - you can do what ever you see fit. You can use a higher orb or not, but those who use smaller orbs have merely realized the accuracy and consistency of doing so - meaning : if you use a tighter orb, you're most likely to tell the correct story (the story that is unique to that chart) than a generalized story that other people could have.

E.g. you were speaking of Psyche/Eros lately on the board. I have this with someone at 1 degree orb and advancing and so I would pay attention to it than the Mars opposed Venus at 4 degrees orb advancing. Because if you have 5 synastry charts of people who have a Psyche/Eros conjunction, with the orbs ranging from 10 - 0 degrees orb, one would need to highlight the Psyche/Eros conjunction for the couple that has a tighter orb than the others for the sake of giving an accurate reading. For those with wider orb, it might still be felt, but maybe at a less intensity or less immediately. It is all relative though, and each astrologer will choose a method that is more reliable for them.

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Lara
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posted December 26, 2009 05:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
LOL

I remember when I balked at 3' degrees all those years ago when I joined here - now I balk at anything over 4/5 degrees.

3 degrees is plenty wide enough Polo yet considering exclusivity and uniqueness of aspects I would say anything under 2' is a definite, one off aspect as opposed to one you share with hundreds of people!!

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Polo C
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posted December 26, 2009 05:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
For those with wider orb, it might still be felt, but maybe at a less intensity or less immediately.

This is what I am seeking to determine. Does the orb degree affect intensity or immediacy?


EDIT: Okay, I got it. Let me go back now and reevaluate things more specifically. This should give me greater clarity in my own life. I guess I should start with my own natal chart.

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Lara
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posted December 26, 2009 05:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
How tight is your Eros/psyche? If it's over 3' forget it.

How tight is Venus/mars or Venus/Pluto? Pluto moves so slow you will have that aspect with thousands of people. Mars is not that fast and Venus is 1' a day or something!

Look at TIGHT moon/AC aspects and sure, you can use whatever orb you want, if you don't care about accuracy and about the important aspects and dynamic

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Unmoved
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posted December 26, 2009 05:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Polo C -

To answer your question, I do not think the intense and immediate effects are mutually exclusive. Intense things are usually immediate, and immediate things are usually intense. So, both are signified by a tighter orb.

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Polo C
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posted December 26, 2009 05:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
AGREED!

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Polo C
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posted December 26, 2009 06:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
Here are my synastry conjunctions. Things have changed a bit, but not too much. Unfortunately, my Eros / Psyche didn't quite make the cut at 4.95 degrees.

  • Sun/Mars (2.8)

  • Sun/Aphrodite (2.2)

  • North Node/Moon (2.66)

  • Eros/Mars (2.61)

  • Eros/Aphrodite (2.01)

  • Psyche/Juno (0.06)

  • Vertex/Neptune (1.48)

  • Cupido/Lilith (2.55)

  • Atlantis/Uranus (0.03)

  • Osiris/Moon (2.76)

  • Neptune/Valentine (0.10)

So, how are we looking over here? Any comments?

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iQ
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posted December 26, 2009 06:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message
I do use 5 degrees for Soulmate Pair Objects in a conjunction when there is clear evidence of many other very tight aspects to say Juno, Valentine, Karma etc etc.
I think EROS-PSYCHE makes the cut for you.
I would not consider EROS-Pluto even at 3.59 degrees but I will take Pluto-Proserpina or Isis-Osiris at 4.59 degrees.

Meanwhile, why are you so shy about posting your chart images with Natal Info ????
I can finish your tropical and draconic synastry salient features with 20 Asteroids each in 15 minutes flat if I have the Natal info.

------------------
Soul Mate Love Calculator

http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

Readings

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vapor-lash
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posted December 26, 2009 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
Long story coming up. Just warning you lol

Considering IN-SIGN conjunctions..

1. For Sun/Moon/Asc aspects I would take anything up to a 10 degree orb conjunction & opposition.
Squares/Trines/Sextiles I would cut off at 5.

2. For aspects between the other personal planets - Mercury/Venus/Mars - or Sun/Moon/Asc *aspecting* one of the latter.. I would use a 5 deg orb.

3. For any aspects between personal planets and outer planets.. I would use a maximum of 3, unless there are other factors involved.
For example.. if X had a wide Mars/Pluto conjunction in his natal chart at 8 degrees.. and Y had her Venus opposite the midpoint of these (so 4 deg either way) - I would still count that.

It really depends on the overall chart/s.

________

Considering out-of-sign conjunctions - I would minimize ALL orbs to about 2 degrees.
For example if you have a Libra Sun at 29 deg.. and they have a Scorpio Moon at 1 degree in Scorpio.. I would consider that a conjunction - But definitely not any wider than that.

_______________________________________

In-sign conjunctions are very different to out-of-sign conjunctions. Even though the conjunction *feel* is there, the planets that are merged act in extremely different ways and display the characteristics of their individual signs.
I tend to only count conjunctions and oppositions with this.

If you count squares it becomes problematic.. Because, for example a 1 deg Leo Sun would be squared to 29 deg Libra.. but the actual signs are compatible.

Or trines - a 29 deg Libra Sun could be trine to a 1 deg Cancer Sun - but the signs are traditionally squared.

I am not saying that trines or squares of this sort have no influence at all - They may well affect things for the better or for the worst between two people. I just tend to not pay much attention to them (I don't believe they are extremely significant - but that is just my opinion.

___________________________________________

The opposite situation to the above ^^ Is having a sign ONLY conjunction.. which is NOT in orb.

Technically I would not call this a conjunction (or square/opposition whatever else) at all.

However, I do believe there is a LOT of simpatico between personal planets that inhabit the same signs.
For example a 17' Leo Sun Male.. and a 4' Leo Moon female.. would STILL have a basic like and understanding and love for each other.

This is simply because each planet individually expresses particular traits.. and each of the people involved is very comfortable with these traits - since they are familiar with them in their own chart.

1. For Sun/Moon/Asc & all other personal planets - I believe that absolutely regardless of degree - there will be some mutual like/affection with the positive aspects.. and some mutual dislike with negative aspects.

However this like - and conversely, dislike - does not FEEL like any a particular aspect.. It is simply a result of each person's natal planet acting out particular traits.

I guess I'm saying that the major aspects - conjunction, opposition, square, trine, sextile have a FEEL of their own. This particular FEEL is not present when the aspect is not there in orb.

I ONLY ever think of Sign-2-Sign "simpatico" (I won't call them aspects).. when the personal planets are involved. Definitely not the outer planets.

So her Venus and your Pluto both being in Virgo.. don't fall in this category. Pluto being outer is an influence that your entire generation expresses not just you.
So this kind of "connection/simpatico by sign only" - works only when the personal planets are involved.

____________________________________________

Lastly - I just want to point out again that the whole chart needs to be taken into account.

One person may have a Venus/Mars aspect at 5 degrees in their natal chart, which is not extremely important for them.

Another person may have the exact same aspect on their asc/dsc axis - for instance.. In which case it will become more significant.

PS. I do believe that both your Mars conjunct her Moon and her Mars conjunct your Sun and Pluto - ARE significant in your particular synastry (from what I've read thus far)

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DD
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posted December 26, 2009 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Sometimes, if wider orbs are felt intensely, there are midpoint-pictures involved or progressed aspects.

As a matter of fact I definitely would risk a glance at the progressed synastry.
It may not last eternally, but it will be there at a certain moment in time.

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Nine
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posted December 26, 2009 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message
In synastry, 3 degree applying orb.

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comica23
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posted December 26, 2009 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I do use 5 degrees for Soulmate Pair Objects in a conjunction when there is clear evidence of many other very tight aspects to say Juno, Valentine, Karma etc etc.

these many other very tight aspects, do they have to be conjunctions, or trines/squares can do too?

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Polo C
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posted December 26, 2009 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polo C     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I.Q. -Meanwhile, why are you so shy about posting your chart images with Natal Info ????
I can finish your tropical and draconic synastry salient features with 20 Asteroids each in 15 minutes flat if I have the Natal info.


Hey I.Q. I'm not being shy. I just didn't know that was standard protocol for you guys here. Okay, here ya go _


  • DOB: 9 / 21 / 1971

  • TOB: 2:10 A.M.

  • POB: New York, NY

Okay, you have 15 minutes and counting... 14:59... 58... 57...

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StarrofVenusGirl
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posted December 26, 2009 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrofVenusGirl     Edit/Delete Message
LOL, Polo. I know you're kidding about the 15 mins but I believe IQ is in India. You have to allow for the time difference. I have noticed he often posts at what are ungodly hours for me here in the US.

Just keep that in mind, he'll be back

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comica23
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posted December 26, 2009 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message
Polo C, you need to list both you and your gf's birth info.

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Lara
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posted December 26, 2009 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
and your time stops NOW because you forgot your partner's details LOL

wow Polo, thats kinda a big **** up! haha

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