posted June 27, 2010 03:11 AM         

no

I don't necessarily equate Aries with selfishness

Aries have many other possibilities besides selfishness

"Oh gosh, but its connected to the sun and the ego so there could an indication there."

that could also be creativity,self expression,vitality

a person with strong 5th house could be a creative person,self expression, and/or be involved with children

it doesn't necessarily mean that the person is selfish

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted June 27, 2010 03:13 AM         

quote:

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I never said anything about selfishness being lack of morals and ethics

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quote:

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I was talking that you can't judge the level of a person's morals and ethics by looking at somebody's natal chart[/quote[
What? who is doing that? I'm not, you keep connecting moral. I'm talking about a selfish person!!
[quote]
also

the sign, Pisces doesn't necessarily mean thoughtful

there are numerous possibilities sign,Pisces can manifest

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quote:

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that was my other point

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posted June 27, 2010 03:14 AM         

quote:

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well
they weren't obviously weren't being thoughtful considerate of the people that they killed

now did they?

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quote:

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btw 5th house wouldn't necessarily mean selfish

it can also be matters involving children,creativity,self expression,entertainment,speculation

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We're all aware that there is free will.
The OP was simply wondering about chart factors.
Probably if you're not the type to speculate or subscribe to that type of thinking/analyzing in astrology then these types of threads are not best for you, because there will be many people chiming in with their opinion and all, as I've read, with the knowlege that we do indeed have free will.

If there were a thread remarking that we didn't have free will then your comments would make sense. But no one is disputing that.

posted June 27, 2010 03:15 AM         

quote:

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I don't necessarily equate Aries with selfishness

Aries have many other possibilities besides selfishness

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posted June 27, 2010 03:20 AM         

"However, I know that you're quite sensitive and get easily excited and that you can't change it, so it is what it is..."

please don't try to psychoanalyze me

let's not go there.....ok?

don't throw stuff in my face about my own personality

"I'm aware of what the 5th house rules, for some reason you keep stating the obvious."

I was stating it because I was giving an alternative viewpoint, and that is my right to do that.

If I don't agree with a view, I give an alternative viewpoint.

I was just expressing my views that selfishness or other various moral,ethical behaviors,thought patterns can't be seen in a natal chart

people have the free will to choose to be selfish or not.

I don't think people like having their charts being looked at to see if a person is selfish or not.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted June 27, 2010 03:29 AM         

everybody has an internal first reaction to everything... free will kicks in on how you choose to externally show that reaction...

for example- You ask someone for help and the first thing that pops into that persons mind, "Why should I help them, I'm not going to get anything out of the situation..." (which to me is selfish) but then after that first thought/reaction they choose to help b/c they still have a choice. (that to me is the free will part)...

Some people's first internal reaction can be either selfish or not. And some people don't know how to control that first reaction... I think that should be able to be seen in a chart because that's just how the person's mind works...

posted June 27, 2010 03:31 AM         

If you don't believe you can see it in a chart why are you still repsonding? You talk about an alternative viewpoints, maybe you should begin to accept others. Of course you can explain why, but don't try to change others minds. What did you want to stop the thread? If you don't don't think the same as me or others fine, you said that, but just let it go.

posted June 27, 2010 03:34 AM         

quote:

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Some people's first internal reaction can be either selfish or not. And some people don't know how to control that first reaction... I think that should be able to be seen in a chart because that's just how the person's mind works...

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posted June 27, 2010 03:45 AM         

That's how I have been looking at this situation the whole time (from a scientific point of view) There are charts that can show up extremely selfish but through their experiences (transits and progressions) they have learned to control their external response but that internal response is always going to be there

posted June 27, 2010 03:47 AM         

just because a person expresses alternative viewpoints to your views doesn't mean that he/she is not accepting your views and trying to change your mind.

expressing alternative viewpoint is merely expressing a view to counter a view that is being disagreed with

that's the whole idea of expressing alternative viewpoints

Diversity

just because a person expresses a different view,belief,opinion to counter yours doesn't mean that a person is not tolerating or accepting your view.

I tolerate and accept your view, but I don't agree with it. I give my explanation.
If you give a view that I disagree with, I will give you an alternative viewpoint to it.

I am not telling anybody that I am right and everybody else is wrong nor am I telling people that they should do what I do. I don't operate that way.

I don't do that.

I merely express my alternative viewpoints

I have that right.

why should I let it go if I disagree

everybody has the right to post here

everybody has the right to disagree on what's being posted and make an alternative viewpoint to it

last time I checked, there are no rules about debates

a matter of fact:

" All of your fellow Knowflakes are waiting to get to k-NOW you. It's warm and cozy inside, like mewling kittens, and you just might chance upon the unmistakable k-NOWing Spiritual presence of Linda her S-elf. Linda loved debate, so in her memory we do encourage debates. You are free to speak your Minds about anything, but please, use no profanity or personal insults." http://www.linda-goodman.com/

I haven't used any profanity nor personal insults.

I also haven't told anybody that I am right and others are wrong.

I didn't tell anybody that they should do what I do.

I merely expressed my alternative viewpoints, and that is not against the rules of this forum.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted June 27, 2010 03:58 AM         

defensiveness is not necessarily selfishness

it can be an strong reaction to stimuli

Have you ever heard of sensory defensiveness

Sensory defensiveness is a condition defined as having "a tendency to react negatively or with alarm to sensory input which is generally considered harmless or non-irritating" to neurotypical persons.[1]

It is not uncommon for individuals to have a few mild sensory defensive traits. However, when multiple defensive traits impact the person's day-to-day life, that person is considered to be Sensory Defensive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_defensiveness

defensiveness can apply to the neurological system of a person

a person can have a highly nervous system which means that he/she is highly reactive to external stimuli

it can effect how they emotionally react to a situation

also
it's well known that Vitamin B complex (also known as stress vitamin) and Omega 3 Fatty acids deficiencies can make people prone to being hypersensitive to environment.

therefore defensiveness doesn't necessarily mean selfishness

there can be other things that defensiveness stems from

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted June 27, 2010 04:04 AM         

No..I am just telling my viewpoint. That's all I am doing. I disagree with you,and I gave you my alternative viewpoints. You said other things that I disagreed with, and I gave alternative viewpoints.

Just because you think that I am doing something different doesn't mean that I am. I am certainly not. I know what my intentions were when I made my posts.

Also referring to what I do as "childish" is a bit patronizing.

Just because a person doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that the person is being childish.

It certainly doesn't mean that he/she is not accepting of your views nor trying to change what you think.

Anything that you post can be disagreed with and debated on, and there are no rules against that. It's okay as long as there is no name-calling and personal insults which tends to happen a lot on our planet when people express their views. They will tell them that they are stupid or other words that imply low intelligence. They will tell others that they don't know anything. They will tell them that they are wrong.

Of course, many people accuse others of "forcing things down people's throat", trying to change one's view or convert, but all they did was express their own alternative view that countered the original viewpoint.

These problems tend to happen especially in religion and politics too.

Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean that a person can't give an alternative viewpoint and keep giving alternative viewpoints when you state things that are being disagreed with.

That's just part of diversity.

Anybody can give alternative viewpoints to things that I state that they disagree with.
That's his/her right.

I will accept his/her viewpoint.
I might agree with it.

If I disagree with it, I will give an alternative point to that alternative viewpoint being made. He/she can disagree with me and give an alternative viewpoint to that.

imho I believe that it's unethical to look at somebody's chart and go look for certain indicators that describe certain negative traits about people.

I certainly don't believe that we should judge others based on their charts.

Looking at certain indicators for a certain way they choose to use their energies and judging a person based on what's in his/her charts come hand in hand just like spelling and decoding come hand in hand.

Many people criticize Astrology because of stuff like that.

I don't blame them. At times, I agree with the critics of Astrology.

These are all my views, and I don't expect anybody to agree with me.

I just don't agree with going behind somebody's back and discussing his/her chart to see what indicates their shortcomings.

I don't think anybody here wants that same treatment.

Agree with or disagree with me

I really don't give a damn

it's all about diversity

if you post something, and people don't like what you post and disagree with it and counter it, and you don't like it,

that's your damned problem

everybody in this forum is free to disagree with you and give alternative viewpoints

That's all I am going to say on the matter.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted June 27, 2010 06:54 AM         

as i said before,i know a person who is extremely selfsh,and have been all his life...so it is a pattern for him,which he doenst want to change.

and in his chart he has that conection to MC - mars cj pluto cj Moon cj MC.

in Libra!

the MC stands for career,but not only,it is the axis about our own personal and social status so...with all these planets there...

pluto rule shis 11th - so he is really a person that has to get what he wants,through manipulation,power control,to get his dreams met(11th) & mantain a specific social status to the exterior ( which it is just an image but not corresponding to truth).

mars there,rules his 4th- this also extends to the way he acts in family/home cause he has been extremely selfish with the way he treats them.very demanding with them,and when his needs are not met,he gets really annoying.

moon is there too cj Pluto a bit wide biut it is felt,moon rule his 8th.

i think that selfishness in his case,also is related to insecurity. he is the type of person that hates to be alone,and does everything to always have someone there,and this extends to the extreme of wanting all his family around him too,even if that equals disconfort for the others.

so selfishness is also something that is derived from other patterns---this case is extreme need for attention,insecurity-which leads to ego mechanisms.

if we look at charts,doesnt the 5th is related tot he ego,cause it is the house of the sun?it could be true,but i dont think it does,cause my bf has a stellium there and he is anything but selfish.to the contrary.

posted June 27, 2010 07:40 PM         

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Her Mars is in Sag but her Sun is in
Cap.

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Wow.

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But my mars is in Cap and I'm pretty generous but its conjunct neptune, maybe thats why?

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Perhaps. Aspects do alter planets. But shouldn't Neptune be more conservative in Capricorn.

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When you say shocking you mean because of the Sag? Cause she has her moon, mars, uranus, and saturn in sag.

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Yes. I've always thought Sagittarius was the most generous sign. So that was a shocking discovery. Perhaps her Saturn in Sagittarius has a natural conflict. Put that in conjunction with personal planets, and you end up with a very sad situation.

quote:

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How do you come up with these life path numbers and sorts?

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What CrazyAquarian posted.

posted June 27, 2010 08:22 PM         

quote:

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Perhaps. Aspects do alter planets. But shouldn't Neptune be more conservative in Capricorn.

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Yes. I've always thought Sagittarius was the most generous sign. So that was a shocking discovery. Perhaps her Saturn in Sagittarius has a natural conflict. Put that in conjunction with personal planets, and you end up with a very sad situation.

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Her Saturn is in her 7th house. HMM cause I can see it through how she is in her relationships.
She has many Saturn aspects
Semi-sextile her sun, conjunct her moon, semi-square her mercury, sextile her venus, trine her jupiter, conjunct her uranus, and semi-square her pluto O_O

posted June 27, 2010 09:11 PM         

It's like trying to find why gay people are gay..and Uranus has nothing to do with it..

It's in our nature to be selfish and I am sure if we were down to the wire our true intentions would be shown..

posted June 28, 2010 06:48 AM         

i completely agree.

in his case it is a pattern of hbehaviour that was suported by his parents.in detriment of his brother-my bf.

to me,that im an exterior person from all that scenario,is very easy to see that he has accommodated to that Life of his.and as he was always fed while maintaining that behavior,and his needs met,that is how he learned to have all the things he wants in Life.
i dont know if someday he will change it-cause he is alreayd almost 40..and keeps the same pattern...

i really wanted him to change though-cause my bf has been traumatized by childhood experiences and teen´s too because of that.

his NN is in 13sag cj his asc 17sag.

NN sextile Moon(rules his 8th),squares venus(rules his 5th & 10th) and jupiter(rules his asc).

posted June 28, 2010 12:45 PM         

I have been reading what every one has been saying and I wanted to give my 2 cents worth. What I found personaly and it could just be a coincidence but what I found when I looked at the charts of people that I personaly found selfish, meaning ie just thinks of self and never offers to help or share/give anything but always takes, never passes on info to people that would really need it even though it wouldn't cost them anything, you don't see or hear from them at all when you are having a bad time but they call you for help when it's them and EXPECTS your help and trys to make you feel sory for them. Maybe there's more to add or take away but that is MY take on someone being selfish. Well back to the astrology. What I found was hard aspects to Jupiter and saturn, mostly hard aspects to eachother like Jupiter opposite Saturn or even Jupiter square the sun. This is what I have seen when looking at peoples charts that I found selfish. Because I have known leos that were selfish and leos that would give you their last and the same with all the other signs. Also I don't really think that a planet in a sign or house makes one especialy selfish without considering the aspects so what do you all think? Can you go back to the chats and see if they have the hard aspects to the 2 planets I just mentioned? I look farword to reading more on this subject, very interesting.

posted June 28, 2010 12:49 PM         

the person i was talking about has a jup trine saturn and

posted June 28, 2010 07:41 PM         

The jup trine saturn even though the trine is a harmonious aspect it still could be restrictive if they both get a lot of hard aspects from other planets, like the bad aspects overpower the good. I know the whole chart must be seen before making such a comment and I’m not a proffessional astrologer but just giving my opinion only. Squares from saturn to the moon and mercury I would think would make the person emotionaly controlled or maybe be a bit repressed emotionaly (I’m not saying everyone with this aspect is like this) together with all the other aspects that you have told me about. Jup square neptune, nn and ascendant seems to be a sureal character, trying to be bigger than life and hitting out at the world.

Well thats me for now, my other 2 cents worth.

posted June 29, 2010 02:42 AM         

quote:

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I don't think astrology has anything to do with it..

It's like trying to find why gay people are gay..and Uranus has nothing to do with it..

It's in our nature to be selfish and I am sure if we were down to the wire our true intentions would be shown..

..And selfless people can be the most selfish people just discreet..

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