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Author
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Topic: Love and Sacrifice...
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DD
Knowflake Posts: 4909
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 28, 2010 03:41 PM
 
Actually, after my experience, it is quite the opposite. It just needs receptivity and openness, but that is not easy to do for many people.IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4214
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 28, 2010 03:56 PM
EXACTLY DD  Just being whole and open and like a vessel/receptive. 
People really don't get this because they live out of ego, fear and NEED to be in total control to feel normal.
IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 4909
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 28, 2010 04:40 PM
Control is contra-productive.Sais me, the emotional control-freak. lol But you are never too old to learn, eh? IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4214
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 28, 2010 05:58 PM
"To live is the rarest thing. Most people just exist, that's all." --Oscar Wilde IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted June 29, 2010 07:25 PM
I was thinking about having a sense of self/loving others etc.
It is like homeostasis in the body .
Too much of one thing will kill you and too little of it will do the same lol.
I was on the side of being selfless but it was not good at all.
I could not have needs or wants.
Then, when I was out of the house --I was afraid to have needs or wants cuz I thought it made me bad.
Now,somehow,through friends,God, my heart opening etc--I see how I must have needs,wants and an identity .
It is unselfish to love yourself.
My dear friend(Cappy moon lol) told me that you MUST love yourself or you will have no power on this earth.
Ami IP: Logged |
Dy-na-mi-tee
Knowflake Posts: 298
From: Cloud 22, Jupiter Ave, Lalaland
Registered: Jun 2010
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posted June 29, 2010 09:19 PM
I think what happens is - if you don't love yourself you can't sustain yourself and you simply don't have the strength to love or help anyone else. You end up being the one needing the help.Thank you all so much for your replies and your affection
I'll reply to this more in depth when I have the time. IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted June 29, 2010 09:38 PM
quote:
I think what happens is - if you don't love yourself you can't sustain yourself and you simply don't have the strength to love or help anyone else. You end up being the one needing the help.
This says it all for me. Thank you Dyn-a! Ami ------------------
My life carries with it a certain amount of mess.
Francis Ford Coppola IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted June 30, 2010 01:17 PM
Dyn-a
I want your opinion cuz you have good sense  .
This is what I have been thinking. You have to have a right size self. Too big(Narcissism) or too small( self doubt, no confidence)is not good.
So--how do you get there?
You have to face the reality of who you are.
I try to face myself----all the time, face what I feel , what people around me seem to feel, how they act.
I find this VERY hard.
It seems like Cappy moons can face this kind of thing.
What do you think, Dyn-a? Thanks so much
Ami
.
------------------
My life carries with it a certain amount of mess.
Francis Ford Coppola
IP: Logged |
starkiss1
Knowflake Posts: 893
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted June 30, 2010 03:21 PM
Ok, I am really coming out in the open now.You will know straight away, my friends, that I have a real problem here. How on Earth can you Know and Love yourself? When so many people told you it's not possible? Ami Ann, I guess, I am asking you, cos you resonate with my question. I don't know why. IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 4909
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 30, 2010 03:53 PM
I am not as good in loving myself as I want to be.But things started to get better for me, when I actually asked myself for forgiveness for everything I have done to myself.
Sounds strange, I know. But I thought if these forgiveness-meditations work with other people, why not with myself?
AFter all I am the person I have to live with for the rest of my life. And boy did I mistreat me! It seemed to work actually. Event hough my inner child is still somewhat suspicious.
But I try to accept myself just as I accept everyone around me, and that somehow led to a greater openness and receptivity. I am not in a constant state of selfdefense anymore. But there are of course days, like yesterday, when it is really hard to. But this life is so beautiful. And you are a part of the beauty.
And isn`t it just awesome to see how blue the sky is? Or how grey, if it is raining? And how the birds are chirping?
I know that sounds a bit "Rosamunde Pilcher"-like, but to me being aware of the beauty of nature, brings a great peace to me. But yes, it is not easy. Letting go (of expectations, old thought patterns) is actually a long process, but I think it is worth it. IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted June 30, 2010 03:54 PM
quote:
Ok, I am really coming out in the open now.You will know straight away, my friends, that I have a real problem here. How on Earth can you Know and Love yourself? When so many people told you it's not possible? Ami Ann, I guess, I am asking you, cos you resonate with my question. I don't know why.
I am gonna think, tonight, about your question.
((((Starkiss))) x o x Ami ------------------
I am two with nature.
Eighth House Stellium IP: Logged |
starkiss1
Knowflake Posts: 893
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted June 30, 2010 04:59 PM
Thank you, Ami. I don't know why,but I do feel you are a close soul to me. There aren't many, though. IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted June 30, 2010 07:28 PM
quote:
Thank you, Ami. I don't know why,but I do feel you are a close soul to me. There aren't many, though.
This post touched me, Starkiss.
THANK YOU!
I want to share about a time in my life when I loved myself.
I am gonna spend some time thinking about it before I write. x o x Ami
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I am two with nature.
Eighth House Stellium IP: Logged |
venus in gemini
Knowflake Posts: 607
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 30, 2010 09:13 PM
DD,
I had to learn how to love myself also. And with Saturn in the first house, it was a struggle. I have stopped making any negative comments about myself, and stopped being so critical of myself. I kept reminding myself that it didn't have to be perfect. I participated in a Divine Feminine workshop last year. The teacher asked us to buy an inexpensive tiara, and to wear it around the house on weekends. And to start treating yourself like royalty, to start treating yourself like GOLD. She wanted us all to feel special, and to remember that we are precious, and that we have to give that to ourselves. It was wonderful.... IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 4909
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 01:52 AM
Vig,I can absolutely relate to this. Sounds wonderful.
When I was a kid, I would always drape some cloth around my waist or shoulders and "play" I was a princess. Actually I was acting out quite some weird imageries, in this role, which involved a love-triangle (in my fantasy) with tragic end; which is strange given the fact that I was not even 10 years old. Without even knowing it I was acting out the story of ARthur / Guinevere / Lancelot or Marke / Tristan / Isolde. lol But the important thing is that I knew I was a princess, but then I suddenly thought why I should be one, if others aren`t? Why should I considered pretty, if others are not? How could I be happy, if others are not?
Those were rather strange thought for a 9 year old I guess. Anyway, yes I am learning to treat myself more lovingly. But that is not always easy. A life of negative thoughts pattern are pretty difficult to overcome.
IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 08:58 AM
Thank you VIG and DD for your responses.I feel less alone in this climb up from lack of self esteem to self esteem.
I have been thinking of Starkiss question"How do you love yourself?
I think if I can answer it---a new path will open.
It may only show itself little by little but I wanted to share some events in my life with you.
If you think my thinking is not clear at any point---Tell me.
I may write it in short, separate posts cuz it is easier . Ami
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I am two with nature.
Eighth House Stellium
IP: Logged |
DiandraReborn25
Knowflake Posts: 1796
From: Portugal
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:10 AM
dear oneswe´re so alike! i also have that saturn in 1st with pluto so imagine how i treated myself too... you´re right DD takes time for us to work on our patterns,specially the ones we´ve been doing for so many times,,gets so deep in us we even dont see it quite frankly. but it is worth the work.it is a everyday process. VIG wonderful idea!!!! when i was little i always said that when i grow up i wanted to be a princes...and i really did mean it! AHAHAH Ami we all here love you just takes your sensitivity and nice posts to perceive easily that you´re not only a beautiful soul,but also that same beauty it is shown outside. IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:11 AM
I had a brief period in my life when I had the kind of self esteem I could only wish for now.
I keep this time inside myself as a beacon.
I try to push aside all the layers of distortions about myself(I am bad, worthless etc) and GET back there when I thought I was worth something.
It is my main struggle.
I think " WHAT did I have then that I don't have now?
What made that time different?
I remember one day,in particular.I was walking down a street, near a beach. I felt at peace with who I was.
During this time period, I was not co-dependent.
I remember almost the exact time I became co-dependent.
My other struggle is to give up being co-dependent--as much as you can---cuz we all will be to some extent.
IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:17 AM
I had self esteem for a short period, as I said.
I can flash back to memories where I felt good.
I think the biggest part of my childhood was having to lie.
It was like there was a 3 ring circus in front of your eyes and you had to act like it was nothing.
I think I became depressed as a child.There is a nursery school pix of me and I look awful.
My main source of depression in my childhood was my mother.
I could not believe in my child's mind how she was.
My father was loving but would never stand up.
I had loving extended family but no one ever acted like anything was wrong.
Prolly, my mother never showed anything to anyone.IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:21 AM
{(((Diandra)))}
Thank you! I feel so encouraged by your saying that. AmiIP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:29 AM
My biggest struggle,as a child, was to try to have a self I could trust.
Why was my mother trying to hurt me? Why WOULD a mother try to bring a child down so far?
I knew my mother loved me, too.
Love came with humiliation .
IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:37 AM
I carried this sense of fog with me as a child. It seemed like a huge garbage bag I carried on my back.
It was shame.
I remember feeling it in camp, wondering why I felt so heavy.
I developed early(36C breasts at 9). During camp, I would not take off my wool blazer cuz people would see my body.
Even when I played softball the counselors would say "Aren't you hot?" I would say "No, I am cold blooded" lol
My sexuality was awful to me cuz I had no place to put it.
I had a long bus ride home from camp.
One boy on the bus would try to get close to me. He matured early. I was afraid.
That same summer, we had a live-in babysitter.
AmiIP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 4909
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:38 AM
Ami,I am sorry for that.  My mother (and the rest of my family, too) always loved me. There is great love running in our family.
BUT there is a real conflict in "perception" between my mum and me. I will remember things that she will flat out tell me have never happened. Not even big ones. She just doesn`t remember, but will tell me that I have only imagined it.
But it is the other way round, too. That she will remember things, that I think have never happened.
If we can find "proof", it turns out that sometimes she was right, sometimes I was right.
But since I always relied on HER perceptions (especially if it came to health matters, which had the peculiar consequence that I sometimes suddenly felt really sick, just because she had mentioned that I was looking a bit pale that day, and I had been perfectly okay before!), I came to deeply mistrust my own perceptions.
The other thing about my mom is that she has a very deep wound inside. Witnessed her brother drown and die when she was about 3 or 4 years old, and her mom died when she was 17 (and consequently she had to take on the responsibility for her brothers or sisters, the youngest being 2 years of age at that time).
This led to a mild form of depression and probably fear of losing her loved ones, which was hanging over her like a dark cloud; not too obvious, others will just see that she is serious and sometimes detached.
She never knew t hat it influenced her family, too, until recently, when she had been talking to a psychologist. She told me that she never realized that her own fears may have been "transported" to me especially.
But that is what happened.
Somehow her feelings always transferred to me. Maybe I was just more sensitive to hers as my brother, I don`t know.
Of course I was just 2 years old, when my middle brother was born and diagnosed with Down syndrome, which led to some depressed months for her, too, and I guess being such a young kid I must have surely "co-experienced" her pain.
she`s come out of it quickly, and, well, just took responsibility and made the best of it, as she always does. (led to her co-founding an organisation to bring together relatives of mentally challenged people, not only with Down syndrome, to have some good quality time together up to real integration work in our community).
But to me it was always that I felt "responsible" for her feelings and moods. Or well, maybe not responsible, but I couldn´t stand it if she was sad. Not because I feared consequences to me (my Grandfather was having a depression, too, but coupled with a choleric temper, which my mom and her brothers of course experienced during their childhood; personally I have never seen my grandpa choleric, at that age it had somehow passed. And my mom never had any inclination to being choleric).
I couldn´t stand it, because I felt her sadness inside myself.
Which somehow translates to other people areound me, too. I just emphatize too much.
Nowadays, I am learning that I am not her. Her feelings are not mine. We are separate people.
I think there may have been a much too deep identification with her and especially her pain.
Chiron is in Aries in my 4th house.
I think these things impeded with my self-esteem, and een more so, my self-perception.
Ami, I think it is a good thing to connect with your happy inner child.
I did, too, and I realized, that it was during a time I really liked myself. IP: Logged |
DD
Knowflake Posts: 4909
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:43 AM
Ami,I hear you on the thing about your sexuality. Has been the same with me. IP: Logged |
Ami Ann
Knowflake Posts: 1997
From: US
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted July 01, 2010 09:46 AM
Yes, DD, as I write and think about this I see that you are right!
A big part of the answer is the separation from others i.e we are NOT that person we had to take care of.
I am seeing this as a key--a crucial part of healing.
The hard part is that you heal strand by strand like unfolding yard.
You want to get to the bottom of the ball but each piece must come off by itself.
Do you find that, too? Ami ------------------
I am two with nature.
Eighth House Stellium IP: Logged |
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