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Author Topic:   Love and Sacrifice...
Dy-na-mi-tee
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posted June 26, 2010 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dy-na-mi-tee     Edit/Delete Message
I think genuine love (for ourselves and for others) requires some amount of sacrifice of the ego.
Part of the process of maturing emotionally and becoming an adult is acknowledging that there are other people in the world (with their own needs, desires, feelings).. At first we come to know our immediate family, then friends and the outer world.

When we make a mistake in judgement and engage in behaviour that causes harm to another emotionally, we learn that this requires an apology. We can identify that the other person was *hurt* and we can understand their pain.

And we know that if we were IN their shoes.. we would not like being treated this way.
But in order to develop compassion and love for others in this manner - I guess the personal ego sometimes has to come second.
Because the personal ego might come in and say:

"Why should I care about X or Y? All I need to care about is *me* - my own problems and my own satisfaction. So I don't need to say sorry."

That is an initial reaction that a child may have. The infant is only aware of his/her own existence and his/her own *self*.

Whenever something is upsetting (such as apologizing when it is uncomfortable), this is either avoided or yelled at and cried about - until someone else comes in and makes the "negative" thing go away.
When we are very very young - we do not yet have this concept of taking accountability for our own actions. The reaction can sometimes just be "it wasn't me" or "i didn't do it" or "it was fine, i don't need to apologize".

But as we experience OUR own pains in life, and we grow up - we realize that this reaction (of running away from your own actions) is self-centered and at times cruel. We often realize this through experience.
In the best case scenario - this is when a desire comes in to do the "right" thing for its own sake.. because you know that it brings emotional contentment to another (and because you realize that you would want the same thing done onto you), not in order to avoid punishment.

---------

Similarly - when it comes to love of self.. So many times people put their ego above their soul and physical body. They strive for particular achievements or strive to have a particular image in an almost narcissistic manner.. but they forget themselves and genuinely *loving* and taking care of themselves. The ego comes first again.

Maybe walking down this emotional path to emotional maturity is a progression from Sun/Mars/Saturn (& the AC) -- to -- Moon/Venus/Neptune (& the DC) .. Maybe we are progressing from a type of ego-centered love.. to a more all-encompassing and genuine love.. one that leaves the ego behind.

Or perhaps we need to merge the two in such a way ^ that the give and take causes more happiness than pain.

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Ami Ann
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posted June 26, 2010 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
(((( Dyn-a-mit-ee))
You have such a profound understanding of life at such a young age.
I am in awe of it.

Ami

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Ami Ann
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posted June 27, 2010 06:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
edit

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DD
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posted June 27, 2010 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message

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DiandraReborn25
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posted June 27, 2010 07:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DiandraReborn25     Edit/Delete Message
i agree that our Egos are there to blind us really.

there is no other thing in life more important than Love - for everything and everyone.

and that is not an Ego-goal.so yes,you´re right:Ego must be put in 2nd place,by our own detachment from "It".Like when moments we feel we´re acting through the Ego,we step back and act like an "observer of THE EGo". Dont think or act through him,but take back its power by focusing only on Love.

The more we distance ourselves,from a soul basis,from the Ego,the more we become truthfull to our own Essence.

And the more we become One with each other - and returning back to our 1st stage-of the child.

It was only some time ago that i understood the saying of the quote that talks about looking at life trhough the eyes of the Child.

they´re the ones holding the knowledge & genuine Love,cause while youngsters,they didn't forgot their true nature. it is only by letting time pass by,and the exterior influence us,that they start to forget...and they really see the people´s spirits,and people´s energies while being so young.

So,i would also say that in roder for us to reach genuine Love and reach our Essence again,we must return and reach our "Child within" again...like Richard Bach did in his book

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Ami Ann
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posted June 27, 2010 07:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
I think it is really hard cuz the opposite of Narcissism is an undefined self.
The self has to be the right balance--not too much(Narcissism), not too little( squashed self )
Trying to get a squashed self up to right size is no easy feat either


Ami

PS Look at all the people in Hollywood or famous people who have everything but don't have a genuine self.
They have very little without that.

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A_L_F
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posted June 27, 2010 07:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for A_L_F     Edit/Delete Message
Yes self-identity is important, in terms of 'knowing thyself'. But the self per se must be destroyed in the form of ego and gratifying desires that have a negative impact somewhere else as a side-effect. To quote a very simple bhudist saying 'no self, no problem'. The situation the world finds itself in now is a result of the sum of everyone in history acting out of self-interest. Like a spiral towards a dense centre of destruction. Examples of selfish behaviours in the face of quite OBVIOUS negative impact are 1.) I want a baby (i have not adequately considered that schools are far too full, housing at a record shortage, where it will live when it is old, what impact it will have on the environment) 2.) I want to eat that beefburger (i have not adequately considered the suffering animals go through in captive farms, the horrors of the sluaghter house, and the complete evil of my action - i just want to s tuff the burger down my fat throat into my bloated belly). I could go on. I make personal sacrifices everyday that are against my 'self'. It is hard but we must all be the change we want to see in the world.
Emily are you still up for getting off with me btw?

------------------
Lack of Earth. Lack of Bu11shit.

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DD
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posted June 27, 2010 07:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Diandra,

did you read: Bridge across forever?


Jeez, I SO LOVE that book!
Too sad, that he and Leslie divorced after all.

Just had a quote flashing trhough my mind:

"What have I got? Really? Some money in my pocket, some nice threads, fancy car at my disposal, and I'm single. Yeah... unattached, free as a bird... I don't depend on nobody and nobody depends on me... My life's my own. But I don't have peace of mind. And if you don't have that, you've got nothing. So... what's the answer? That's what I keep asking myself. What's it all about? You know what I mean?"


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DiandraReborn25
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posted June 27, 2010 07:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DiandraReborn25     Edit/Delete Message
DD

yup i did read that one & also all of them!

i love richard bach,i started reading them when i was so young that half of it i couldnt really understand it.

but then years later,i started reading it again,and it was if i was reading a whole new book of course.

i was really sad that they divorced too..i loved bridge across forever too...how could i not?

but i still sometimes wonder if they could come back again.

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DD
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posted June 27, 2010 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Nothing`s forever, not even the end.
Unless you define "forever" as an everflowing stream.

Anyway, I only read that one. And funnily an email friend suggested I read that, and it coincided with my "re-awakening" some years ago, and I think to some degree it was that book that made me think about soulmates again.

I have`t read other books of him though. Which ones would you suggest?


Oh and of course I have read Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Loved that so much, too.
Even watched the film. And made my whole family watch it, too. lol

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DiandraReborn25
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posted June 27, 2010 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DiandraReborn25     Edit/Delete Message
I would recommend "One" & "Illusions".

i loved those two really.

you´re gonna love it too

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teasel
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posted June 27, 2010 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Emily are you still up for getting off with me btw?

In this little act of self-interest, have you adequately thought about how a question like that might embarrass her? Have you thought about the effects your words might have on others?

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DD
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posted June 27, 2010 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Diandra,

yes I was stumbling across ONE, and for some reason it really resonated with me.

Same thing happened with a book of Judy Hall last week: The soulmate myth.
I have no idea why it resonated with me, and I do not own that many books on that subject, it never seemed important to read books about it.
Anyway this one was "calling" to me so much, that I actually ordered it.


Back on topic, yes I think it is important to be able to step a back from ourselves so we can see others, too, not only our own Egos.

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teasel
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posted June 27, 2010 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
I've had trouble loving and accepting myself, for years... I did, and do, to a point, but I would never have had a problem with anxiety, had I been able to fully do that (and not need the acceptance of others - such a waste).

I wish that I could do something to help children with anxiety and self-esteem problems. I wanted to set something up on the internet, ten years ago, for children dealing with anxiety, to help them make friends and feel less alone. I was in contact with one mother, who found the website I had at the time, and she thought it was a great idea... I was worried about certain types of adults somehow abusing the system, though. I didn't know how to make it truly safe for the children, if you know what I mean. So I gave up on the idea. (and to make this astrology-related: I have Mercury/Ceres/Chiron/Sun conjunct in the 6th house, Jupiter in the 5th, square Saturn in Cancer in the 9th and opposing Pluto in Libra in the 11th...)

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Ami Ann
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posted June 27, 2010 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
For me, I need to be able to have a radical self acceptance.
If you can imagine a therapist mother picking apart your every thought and feeling--you may feel like you have a 8th house stellium.
Wait- I do have an an 8th house stellium


Ami

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teasel
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posted June 27, 2010 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
Ami, I'm not sure if it would go against your beliefs, but you might like "The Answer Is Simple" by Sonia Choquette. One part of it - I think it was in the first chapter - made me feel better about myself, for a while anyway.

I had it out of the library to read again, and share part of it with someone else, but I didn't get around to it (and I need to - I need my own copy, possibly in audio format if that's available, so that I can listen whilst doing other things).

And, yes: radical self-acceptance.

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venus in gemini
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posted June 27, 2010 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus in gemini     Edit/Delete Message
I read this somewhere, and wrote it down because I wanted to always remember it.

For someone you deeply care about...

you bring your attention,
you bring your respect,
you bring your presence,
you bring your open heart.

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racole12
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posted June 27, 2010 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for racole12     Edit/Delete Message
Good post

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Lara
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posted June 27, 2010 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
Very few know genuine love of self.
They pretend it's love and they live the lie.

In truth, the only action is love. People spend their loving time trying to save others whether people, animals or the planet and it's futile.

Being love will reach far more people and change the vibration of the Universe to allow space for evil death.

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Ami Ann
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posted June 28, 2010 07:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
I realized something important from this thread and all your posts.
You have to know yourself, first.
In my childhood--there were deep tidal waves of lies.
On the surface--you were told to be scrupulously honest but underneath you were being pulled out by the undertow lol.
I realized, today, an example.
One was of the honesty. You were told to be honest to a fault but all the while your whole life was built on lies.
A bigger one, in a way, was about dependence.
I was told to be independent when I was a child--5--6.
I was pushed away for being too dependent when I wanted a hug, love etc BUT then when I wanted to be independent as a teen I was humiliated with "Who do you think you are?"
Then, when I failed in independence--I was told "You are too dependent " lol
This is not funny,as you know.
I could not trust my eyes and gut to tell me the truth about life so I shut them down like a porcupine who goes in to a ball.
I pushed the Scorpio/Pluto parts away cuz I could not trust myself with them.


Ami

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teasel
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posted June 28, 2010 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
Mum said that my grandmother would tell her that pride goes before a fall, when she was applying a bit of makeup, and at other times, would tell her to have some pride in herself (for whatever reason at the time).

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Ami Ann
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posted June 28, 2010 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
YES
That is exactly what I mean,Teasel. Thank you!


x o x

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Lara
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posted June 28, 2010 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
To know yourself is to love yourself

Knowing is nothing compared to love, for love is the only way to know SELF!

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oneruledbymars
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posted June 28, 2010 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oneruledbymars     Edit/Delete Message
Dy na mite....very well written.

I am in complete agreement with you...and I stand in line with the others who are impressed by your Awareness.

Our Egos....or alters as I like to think of them as are vert tricky....you may have even give them more credit than they deserve.

For instance its the Ego that makes someone stay in a situation Energetic wise that no longer serves for there highest potential.
The Ego is always afraid of death because it knows nothing past it. Whatever you are holding on to your Ego has convinced itself it will die if it loses.

The Ego also tends to not allow for the answer No...
From the Souls Personality or from others.
Whenever we deal with people we should always allow them the space to say no if they need to....it amounts to personal freedom that we allow others by taking care of our on emotional health.

Your Ego makes you:
A. Assume things....all the time.
B. Take things personally...so that you can be hurt.
C. Not be impeccable with your word...because to the Ego what it wants to do comes first...not others that it is dealing with.
D. As a result of these lower based frequencies affects on us is that we cannot do our best in life...and our Energy is syphoned.

So you are right Dynamite we are moving out of this fear base thinking which promotes self sacrifice to a Shift of Ages into which autonomy is the key now.

We are being called to learn and accept our shadows selves that are trapt on the different dimensions we incarnated on, as well as the ones that are stuck in Astral, also that we can find balance.

I feel that in Atlantean times we pushed to hard for a world that only contained light....thinking we could defeat the dark. But you cannot defeat that which exist in you without destroying your own life force.
As result we had to deal with the Pendulum going the opposite way....and now we must bring it to center and balance.

Now is the time to come off the Karmic wheel of self sacrifice and learn how to show uncondtional love and compassion to all by giving it to ourselves first.

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Lara
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posted June 28, 2010 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
Hmmm

Orbm
surely the only thing stopping us from ourselves IS ourselves.

So many talk of potential as if it were separate! In fact to most people, separating things and parts is a lifes work LOL
So many think to road to ourselves involves time, sweat and hardship or pain.
Why???

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