posted August 03, 2010 01:25 AM            

It's 7am in the morning, way before I usually wake up, and I'm finishing off a slab of Aero Peppermint Chocolate (it's that time of the month) and I'm finishing off this wonderful thread which I started reading last night. I'm feeling nurtured and entertained and I'd like to thank you for adding value to my day because this thread is absolutely another winner from you. Of course, it would be nothing without those who contributed so I thank them also for giving me reading pleasure. Great thread!

I have Pluto in my 12th house and not only do I have Scorpio rising in my chart but I also have Pluto rising in my chart too. My Pluto is conjunct Saturn in my 12th too.

It is only those who know astrology who would know that I'm private because I make it seem as if I'm not private. I learned early on that people will get off your back and pay less attention to me if I seem open, so I have learned the art of saying something without saying a lot.

Another thing is that people are somewhat afraid or unnerved by me. I have never raised my voice at someone but I have a reputation as someone not to anger because I apparently make people suffer by just looking at them or by shutting them out. I'm always painted as worse than I am. Always! So, much so that I kind of get amused by the whole thing now because to those who know astro they would see my Cancer Moon and realise that I'm not as cold as I look.

My friend and I were sharing a room at a hotel on during a play I did these last few days, and as we were chatting before sleep she said that she is so happy to have me as a friend because she can always rely on me to call out BS when I see it. I'm surrounded by pretentious people all the time and she said that her greatest pleasure is when someone comes to me with falsehood and how I immediately just destroy the front and make things real. I didn't know this about myself, but I realize that it was a very Pluto thing to do.

posted August 03, 2010 01:58 AM            

Ami

posted August 03, 2010 04:02 AM            

quote:

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It is only those who know astrology who would know that I'm private because I make it seem as if I'm not private. I learned early on that people will get off your back and pay less attention to me if I seem open, so I have learned the art of saying something without saying a lot.

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I think I'm the same way, but people still call me out. I suppose giving people too much information, on the odd occasion, could cure them of that... I hardly ever ask questions, because I don't (usually) want to know more than someone would want to tell me - I expect people to let me know anything they would like to share, in their own time.

I started to look people in the eye when I was younger, in an effort to get over my shyness, not be rude, etc... and people looked away from me, as though my direct gaze bothered them.

In an electronics store, just before Christmas 2004, I was tired and starting to get grouchy. We were there to buy a camera for my sister (birthday present), and Dad had warned me that the salesmen would be all over me, trying to sell me something... they ended up being all over him - when I looked up at one man who was heading in my direction, he quickly veered off into another aisle. The only one to approach me came up from behind, when I was watching a little Bruce Almighty, on a large TV screen. When I'm smiling, I get approached. I wonder if I had a certain look that my sister has warned me about, when the salesmen were around.

posted August 03, 2010 09:02 AM              

that is wonderfully put!can i ask you something?with pLUTo in the 4th...did you had an happy upbringing?

4th stands for our early home but also the future one,the one we will form right?so if PLuto is there,means also that we have the possibility to change the "karmic burden" in family matters,and not transpose that to the family weīll construct?

posted August 03, 2010 09:03 AM            

Ami
PS Teasel--I am gonna write something on msn to you--about this.

posted August 03, 2010 09:25 AM            

quote:

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Ami: I love you. I won't say I'm sorry for you. A brave human like you deserves my respect. You know your life best. Look within and see what causes the conflict that is projected onto your mother. It will help.
I love you. You are so brave.

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Dear Frozen
If I said a simple thank you, it could not express how I felt when I read your words.
I have tears in my eyes.
You gave my heart a cup of tea, a hot muffin right from the oven and a hug.
I love you, too ((((Frozen))

posted August 03, 2010 10:32 AM            

It often feels like the universe is eavesdropping on me. I'll think heavily about something and then it manifests. For instance, I'll think about an issue of mine that I want to work on and then - bam - it's there in my life. I'll think that I want a certain type of deep soul bond in my life, and then along comes the person I can have that with. Etc.

It also can feel like it's happening in the opposite direction, like I'm eavesdropping on the universe. I'll get a sense that something's on the horizon, and it swiftly comes along.

I don't believe in the Law of Attraction. I don't believe that we can manifest events simply by thinking about them. There are so many things I've longed and hoped for in vain, not just for myself but for others. My ignored wishes come from my personal self.

What I think we can do is tap into what's spiritually real - our destiny - and when the universe senses we're ready for a particular event we're destined for, it sends it our way.

This has happened all my life. It's a main reason the spiritual realm feels so real to me.

posted August 03, 2010 10:41 AM            

Your presence makes me joyfully leap and click my heels. Must be your Venus on my Mars-Jupiter conjunction. Oh, and the fact that you're AWESOME helps too.

quote:

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I make it seem as if I'm not private. I learned early on that people will get off your back and pay less attention to me if I seem open

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Exactly, exactly, exactly!

It's not that I'm private just for the sake of being private, like my individuality is some precious jewel that needs to be guarded by lasers. It's more that it's natural for me to put parts of my personal self undercover so that I can expand who and what I can connect with on an impersonal level.

Guarding my personal self is a part of it though, absolutely. But only bc I'm really sensitive and exposure is intimate and intense for me.

quote:

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I'm surrounded by pretentious people all the time and she said that her greatest pleasure is when someone comes to me with falsehood and how I immediately just destroy the front and make things real.

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posted August 03, 2010 10:53 AM            

The eclipses, her Pluto...Looks like this is going to be really right for you!

I understand the discomfort with being so vulnerable, but I think that very vulnerability will be therapeutic.

I've always thought it must be difficult to have an Aries Sun-Chiron cnj in the 6th house. The 6th house wants to perfect the self and Aries wants to emerge. That perfectionist energy your Sun and Chiron are in must make it challenging to just be. The 6th immediately rushes to revision while Aries is still being born.

posted August 03, 2010 11:00 AM              

i think you have tremendous power of manifestation.Why?Becauseyou are a naturally fullfilled person.you come out as cheerful,fun and enjoyful person,that is a big plus to manifest your heartīs desire because we can only manifest what we wish ( not what we want) only and if only we already appreciate all our Life,exaclty as it is Now.

once you do it,all other things come naturally.

Ami

youīre right...!you have a great intuition it was about JOnnhy he also has there saturn and Jupiter.

well,my Pluto is at 27libra with DNA23š.but my 2ndcusp is 1SCorpio so i dont know if itīs seen as placed in 2nd?

Aspects:sextile venus/neptune.cj saturn and trine MC.

one thing is sure:many time in my life i had problems placing myself in the World and it was not just in my teenīs.i was always wondering about my existencial identity sincei know myself ahahah.

posted August 03, 2010 11:04 AM            

Here's Pluto in 12th

Natal Pluto in 12th House
(Haydn Paul)
The position of Pluto in the 12th house can be a difficult one to handle
correctly; this is because areas of the personlity are hidden in the unconscious
mind, and yet have a potent influence creating motivations and desires which
condition your life and choices.Obviously, this applies to all Pluto placings to
some extent, where the underlying impulses leading towards compulsive and
repetitive action can be located in the sphere of the unconscious; but this 12th
house position emphasises such influences to teh point wher they can almost
swamp the conscious personalilty. The possiility of this has to be guarded
against by attempts to regenerate these impulses in the unconscious, by
bringing them to the surface and integrating them into the conscious mind
and personality.You will be internally preoccupied with your own mind and
emotions, as though you are fascinated by the inner processes continually in
motion; you can become morbidly obsessed with your own problems, and
repeatedly circle above them, yet rarely facing them in an attempt to resolve
and release such repetitive blockages.
Traditionaly, the 12th house is associated with endings and the concept of
karma (the law of cause and effect, action and reaction); and you are likely to
suffer from feelings of guilt and patterns of self-persecution. In some ways,
you will prefer to suffer as a form of expiation for unknown sins that you feel
you have committed.
Certainly, you will find it difficult to come to terms fully with yourself, and to
feel an inner harmony. This is made harder by the fact that you possess a
psychic sensitivity to the hidden lives of others, registering their thoughts and
feelings through your links with the unconscious mind. This may manifest as
confusing and conflicting thoughts, feelings and impulses arising in yourself,
which may well not be yours to begin with, but someone else's being received
through your sensitivity. Responding to the inner suffering of others, together
with a personal sense of insecurity, can lead you to prefer more privacy and
seclusion, to be free of the imposition of the social psychic atmosphere. If this
process becomes understood, then a form of psychic protection could be used
to minimise such intrusions; and you may find that a form of inner intuitive
guidance could begin to guide your life and actions.
You may need to follow some form of path or spiritual belief which can bring
some clarity into your conflicting emotional patterns; a transformation on that
emotional level is essential for you, to become free of those neurotic and
negative emotional guilt feelings. If that could be achieved, then your inner
balance would correspondingly improve. Until such time, you will maintain a
distance between yourself and others, and you may find difficulty in being
able to co-operate with such a variety of personalities as you can find in the
workplace. Within any intimate personal relationship, try to be as honest as
possible, because in such a potentially supportive atmosphere, you may have
the opportunity to allow aspects of yourself to arise from the unconscious and
to deal with them through the transformatory filter of the relationship.

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posted August 03, 2010 11:04 AM              

im so sorry you had to pass through all of that.Fortunately you feel the urge to follow your heartīs desire,and thats what saved you.makes lots of sense now.

im gonna read Mairaīs description but im coming to the conclusion that wherever Pluto is,and any other planet,is there for a reason,like all events are actually.

posted August 03, 2010 11:14 AM            

Pluto square Midheaven (Robert Hand)
This aspect indicates that you will have to make a special effort to get along with
people. You must make it clear that you not try to fulfill your goals in life at their
expense, and that you will not allow them to take advantage of you either. A very
ambitious person, in youth you probably picture yourself as being quite important
when you are older. This can be a very constructive attitude, but it will be difficult to
achieve your ambition unless you are able to get along with others, to give them a
constructive part in your goals. Also it is very important that you play the game of life
honorably and adhere to high ethical standards. You don't need to worry that doing
so will be dull, because whatever you get involved in, you make it exciting and
powerful.
You have a strong desire to bring about change in your world, and you may want to
be a reformer and rebuilder. However, you should not try to get power simply for its
own sake. You have to use the energies of Pluto for a purpose higher than yourself. It
is perfectly permissible to be personally rewarded by your work - you do not have to
be totally self-denying - but personal gain should not be your principal motivation.
A born psychologist, you should be able to gain great insight into human behavior.
But again, you must not use this knowledge for personal gain or to manipulate others.
Eventually you may choose a profession that will use this knowledge.

Pluto opposition Midheaven (Robert Hand)
Your early childhood experiences will have an unusually strong effect upon your
whole life. One parent in particular will be very important to you, and it is essential
that that parent's influence be for the good. The problem is that the energies
resulting from your early childhood experiences operate at a very deep inner level,
probably unconsciously, so that they affect your life in ways that are difficult to
understand. Negative experiences in childhood may give rise to fears, which bring
about compulsive behavior patterns and bad habits. You might not even be aware of
these fears, but if you understood them consciously they would be less difficult.
On the other hand, attitudes that you pick up from your elders may seriously limit
your ability to make judgements on the basis of your experiences. Be very wary about
acquiring any prejudices, and always question your beliefs so that you know they are
helpig your life rather than hindering it.
One of your parents may try to exert too great an influence over you, even when you
have outgrown the need for it. That parent must recognize each new stage of your
life and let go of you a bit at each stage. If he or she tries to control you too much for
too long, your psychological development will be seriously retarded. Of course, good
influences from that parent will also have a very powerful positive effect on your
whole life. It is simply that the bond with that parent is very strong, which can have
both good and bad long-term effects upon your development.

Pluto square or opposition Midheaven (Karen Hamaker-Zondag)
The tense aspects between Pluto and the Midheaven are particularly powerful in
their effects. Friendly though we may otherwise be, there is something about us that
warns others off trying to take advantage of us. Whenever we give vent to irritation,
we should bear in mind that the Plutonian energy we radiate will make us sound
much harder than we suppose, and that we can really upset people or drive them into
such a tight corner that they feel compelled to strike back.
With the disharmonious aspects, we have an enormous need to prove ourselves and
to keep a grip on ourselves and our surroundings come what may. If we are not
careful, we shall turn into slave drivers. Obviously, this will lead to power struggles,
especially over social and business status. The tense aspects make us pugnacious and
we are likely, sooner or later, to attack the things that displease us. Once again,
caution is advisable. Pluto always goes hand in hand with tremendous intensity; and,
in the hard aspects, it is difficult to adjust this intensity to the desired effect.
Consequently, it may prove to be destructive rather than constructive.
Inquisitiveness is well-developed, but we do not always know how to control it. Thus
we can catch someone on the hop with a completely tactless question, and surprise
him into blurting out the answer. But, very often, this method leads to confrontations,
although, with Pluto / Midheaven conflicts, we generally ferret out what we want to
know. Also, it is quite common for us to use knowledge indiscreetly or at the wrong
moment; and, given certain other indications in the horoscope, we could divert
knowledge to bad ends by being manipulative.
When we begin any task, it is with complete dedication - maybe too much dedication.
We might even undermine our efforts by an all-or-nothing attitude. Others do not
always understand this lack of give-and-take, even when we are obviously being wellintentioned,
because they simply cannot see why we should get so het up about
things.
Nevertheless, we have great perseverance combined with enormous energy and love
of action - all flowing from a need for power and recognition. If we learned to channel
energy a little better, we could relaly move mountains. Then it would take an
exceptional opponent to stop us.

Pluto opposition Midheaven (Sue Tompkins)
Pluto conjunct IC suggests some sort of violation at one's roots. I have known
examples where the individual has discovered that he or she is the product of rape.
Sometimes there is literal or metaphorical death or banishment of a parent. On other
occasions, the person may have been transposed to a completely different culture or
a completely different family from the one of his / her forebears.
Sometimes individuals with this placement attempt to purge themselves of their
history. In attempting to eradicate their past, it is as if they sit on a time bomb,
waiting for it to resurface suddenly and wreak havoc on their newly built foundations.
Still others with Pluto conjunct IC want to dig and dig to see where they came from:
this must surely be a very positive manifestation of this combination.

Pluto square Midheaven (Frances Sakoian and Louis Acker)
This square indicates a situation in which the desire to transform existing conditions
can cause conflict with employers, immediate superiors, parents and families,
constituted government authority, or landlords.
When the natives are at odds with their employers it is probably because they feel
they know a better way of doing the job or because they want more power in the
decision-making provess. When their revolutionary tendencies are directed against
the government and social institutions, they can incur official disfavor.
If they are in positions of domestic or professional authority, they may display
autocratic or dictatorial traits, which will usually cause disharmony.

posted August 03, 2010 11:17 AM            

quote:

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It's not easy nor will it ever be. Pluto thinks long term...you avoid your issues and you'll be stuck with them for several lifetimes. Face them now and you'll reach your personal El Dorado with streets paved with gold. Ultimately, Pluto seeks our transformation so that we re-member that we are Spiritual Beings on a Human Plane.

I find him benevolent, a harsh teacher no doubt when it comes to urging us on, but one who keeps in mind our Higher Self.

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Well said! ICAM!

quote:

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It took all this to happen to me before I realised that I couldn't go anywhere with a starving soul.

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Kudos to you for coming back to life.