posted September 16, 2010 10:11 AM            

What I meant was - if I practically HELPED someone - I do expect the same, when I'm in a negative situation.

If I do not get the same - that's what I see as dis-loyal.

Lack of practical support is dis-loyal.
Words don't mean much to me.

For instance if someone was in the hospital after a serious crash and I paid most of their bills because they were financially unable to (and not ensured)...

posted September 16, 2010 10:24 AM            

Ive since ceased to expect it from people.

Gave up making myself nuts over it awhile back.

posted September 16, 2010 10:48 AM            

Right now I think I prefer transparency than loyalty. Its best if someone shows me their true colours openly so that I can decide whether or not I want them to stay in my life.

Its all good and well for one to demand loyalty in others but can one completely say(with complete objectivity) that one has been absolutely loyal to the people they demand loyalty from?

______________

posted September 16, 2010 10:53 AM            

Transparency is really my goal and what I value in others.

Thank you for that post. It really helped me.

posted September 16, 2010 11:39 AM            

In a matter of time.

If a person can do this they know something i don't. Real life happens every minute of every day and people will eventually slip up.

Rigidity in this area disturbs me, Yes i do catch myself slipping up and having these feelings. I remember i put my pants on one leg at a time every morning just like every other human that walks this earth.

posted September 16, 2010 02:30 PM            

Its more unreasonable now for me to believe that people will change when its not something they desire themselves..

Its just being forced.

My experience has been this will eventually crash and burn.

Lara:

I like your point, is it from your own experience? When i read it i thought, "You will like who you like, So will they."

posted September 16, 2010 02:31 PM            

I understand your idea of loyalty, Starr, and in truth I find it quite delicious (very passionate!). However, it may boil down to you not wanting to feel alone? Maybe this is something random i'm picking up, but you don't want to feel like you're being poorly received. You don't want solidarity. To feel like no one understands. Therefore, even when you don't agree with a friend/partner you go along with them so THEY don't have to feel what YOU fear feeling. In turn, you expect the same service from them, to equal the service you give. But perhaps that gets you in trouble sometimes because these friends/partners may not know that deep down you don't agree. They don't see what you're doing for them, and don't understand why you get so upset when they don't return the favor to you.

posted September 16, 2010 02:37 PM            

quote:

---

Its more unreasonable now for me to believe that people will change when its not something they desire themselves..

Its just being forced.

It will crash and burn later, trust me.

---

posted September 16, 2010 02:57 PM            

Yes, it's from my own experience of being eternally disappointed until i realised that actually i can't expect, demand, ask, want anything off anyone including change.

I can only improve myself on all levels and love myself with acceptance of 'me'.

I have never been unfaithful to any man in my entire life and it's a choice because i value my relationships and they meant something special to me at the time. I could never sh1t on my own doorstep nor hurt another persons feelings with intention - and i feel i am worthy of others respect enough that it won't be done to me. I've reached that place where if others don't like my actions then tough sh1t and if they are worthy of my friendship and l of theirs then they could never ask for a better friend than me

I don't think it's about learning to surround yourself with buffers; it's about realising that it doesn't matter and to only care deeply about things that really are precious in your life.

posted September 18, 2010 06:20 AM            

I think loyalty is a quality most people look for in others, spanning many areas, whether it be partners, friends, family, pets or partners in crime.

posted September 18, 2010 06:36 AM            

Good to see you posting again.

posted September 18, 2010 05:25 PM            

quote:

---

But defining by signs, I wouldn't skip Aries. I think pure little Aries heart would be crushed if it were betrayed in any sense. It has the innocence to just expect it without being stated. Of course, it would be the fastest to pick itself up and keep going upon any betrayal.

---

posted February 21, 2012 07:20 PM            

I was just going to post a thread about this. What loyalty means and what stability really means in a relationship.

An associate of mine, who is supposedly an aforementioned 'loyal' sign was in a committed relationship a few years ago (they'd been together for 5 years, at least). But this person was visibly unhappy. When asked why this person was staying in the relationship...

"...I don't want to be alone."

This actually made me upset and I thought it was very selfish. Doesn't mean they didn't care about this person. It honestly is not my right to judge, so I did have to adjust my perspective. Their insecurities about love and romance and pessimism about love and romance made them very apprehensive, so they would stay in toxic relationships because of their own emotional needs and comfort. The idea of feeling loved and 'being something' to someone.

This is still loyalty, I suppose. Right? But what is loyalty without honesty, especially emotional honesty--to self and other. I think some people (I don't know if fixed signs are prone to this) will stay in terrible, destructive relationships, because of this idea of loyalty. I am saying this as someone who is loyal to a fault, myself. I guess an interesting question is what is disloyalty? Infidelity to me, is beyond disloyalty in a relationship.

Sure, if you stay in a committed marriage or partnership for years because you are 'married' that is great and respectable...

But I know of MANY people who are in marriages and relationships and are deeply unhappy with those people. They don't cheat on each other, but they just aren't happy. The love and affection have ceased. They might even imagine other loves. But, they stay and endure hell because of the concept of them being loyal. Sometimes it is admirable. Other times...I don't get it.

I've been there before, myself. I have to go back and ask, was I 'really loyal' or was I being sympathetic? Was obligation there? Did I feel the need to be a caretaker? What is my 'loyalty' really built upon? Do I need to be in this relationship, am I lacking something? Is it selfless or selfish and self-serving? Is my loyalty defined by my just 'being' there unwaveringly--how present was I, really?

posted February 22, 2012 01:16 AM            

That being said, i have been around a very, very intense, possessive Scorpio (sun conj pluto, venus, mers in scorp) leo ASC who cheated on those he didn't see as "special" to him. Perhaps it was his aqua moon closely trined by uranus and square his venus 2*.

To me personally, TRUST is everything, and i would walk away, without another word if it was broken. I also like what Ami Anne said <3. It doesn't get any more intimate than when you're transparent with each other. Intimacy takes a lot of willingly gifted loyalty, respect, trust, time and vulnerability. Anything less is superficial to me in a long intimate relationship.

As far as friendships go, i do not give my loyalty nor friendship easily, but those friendships that i do make are for the long haul. I keep in touch and support even those people that i feel i have "outgrown". I am young, but i still have most of my close friends from high school, longest being 10 years, my first best friend. We don't talk daily, not even weekly with our busy lives but we are always there for one another. We have yet to have a bitter argument, not that we always agree. I would say its a very healthy, grow with me, tell me all your secrets, "for life" type of a relationship. I have no doubt she would agree She is a Libra sun and mars, scorp venus, merc, pluto stellium, virgo moon and her view of relationships is very similar to my own

posted February 22, 2012 01:35 AM            

I was feeling irked by certain things that have happened in the past, and loyalty. A family member choosing her boyfriend's side over mine, when he was in the wrong all along (and never once apologized for having doubted me, and for standing up for him).

I was thinking about another man who hit on me, and I found it disrespectful to both his girlfriend and myself. With her, for obvious reasons; with me, because it was assumed by him (and other men in the past, such as the family member's boyfriend), that I would be open to such a thing. I realized that I haven't liked someone since that happened, and I wondered where the loyalty to me was with one person.

Over a year ago, I ended up in a mess, thanks to other people letting me take the fall for something I didn't do. I could have crawled off and just accepted that they didn't know me, but I didn't - I ended up fighting. I was pleasantly surprised to find that a few friends were defending me, too, and one woman (who had posted in this thread - I miss her), gave me the chance to make myself heard. I don't think anyone realized just how bad things were in my life - although I tried to indicate how much, without going into details - and I was crushed, over the suspicion, and being stabbed in the back by the real culprit(s). That led to some bitterness, too. I had been acting with integrity.