posted January 14, 2011 12:09 AM            

I must admit I almost always agree with your insights and I have even learned a thing or two from you but I must ask why do you think alcoholism is a fire trait?
Did I just read it wrong?

Alcoholism and addiction are usually assigned to the Water signs, specifically Pisces which makes total sense with Neptune ruling.

posted January 14, 2011 12:24 AM            

I totally see what you mean, yes I agree.

posted January 14, 2011 01:19 AM            

Water cardinal, Cancer, acts out of their own needs for security. Rarely will they stick their necks out for anything that does not relate directly to them.

Libra cardinal, acts out of their venusian desires, to get what they want and will not want to make waves.

Fire cardinal & fire in general gets in everyone faces whether you like it or not. We want to know what you are doing and why and will challenge it. Air & water cardinal are more concerned with themselves. More introverted. Fire is extroverted and interested and happy to affect the world around themselves. And yes, even to the cost of being a pain to where we get a bad rap and rightfully so since really, who are we to tell you what to do? Aries, the worst in this & gets this description: "
Fire is misunderstood because it's viewed as childish. It's not their fault, it's the lack of respect from other people in the way they see Fire signs and childlike qualities. People forget that creativity comes from a child's way of seeing the world, being curious and open to experience. Fire is here to experience life, not to sit on the sidelines."

I dislike being called childlike but have to admit it's quite true. And like children, we question the status quo that our cardinal partners (Libra & Cancer) will not. We rush in where other's fear to tread and that is a fire sign trait. An impassioned Leo & Sag will do the same to whatever sparks their core interest. Leo, a sense of justice; Sag, an injustice; Aries, pretty much anything that ****** us off. Fire will do even if the other cardinals 'think' of doing, they don't always do it.

posted January 14, 2011 01:19 AM            

Water cardinal, Cancer, acts out of their own needs for security. Rarely will they stick their necks out for anything that does not relate directly to them.

Libra cardinal, acts out of their venusian desires, to get what they want and will not want to make waves.

Capricorns are concerned with what gets them ahead in life.

None of the above acts without thinking about their needs first. If it could have an adverse affect to them, they think about this first before acting.

Fire cardinal & fire in general gets in everyones faces whether you like it or not. We want to know what you are doing and why and will challenge it. The other cardinals are more introverted. Fire is extroverted; interested and happy to affect the world around themselves. And yes, even to the cost of being a pain to where we get a bad rap and rightfully so since really, who are we to tell you what to do? Aries, the worst in this & gets this description:
"Fire is misunderstood because it's viewed as childish. It's not their fault, it's the lack of respect from other people in the way they see Fire signs and childlike qualities. People forget that creativity comes from a child's way of seeing the world, being curious and open to experience. Fire is here to experience life, not to sit on the sidelines."

I dislike being called childlike but have to admit it's quite true. And like children, we question the status quo that our cardinal partners will not. We rush in where other's fear to tread and that is a fire sign trait. An impassioned Leo & Sag will do the same to whatever sparks their core interest. Leo, perhaps a sense of justice; Sag, an injustice; Aries, pretty much anything . Fire will do hastily what the other cardinals 'think' of doing.

posted January 14, 2011 12:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lonake:
I disagree with the other Cardinal signs not challenging the status quo. Libra is a fighter, and so are Cancer & Capricorn. They have their agendas and they want them to be realized. And they will fight to get what they want.
If you think Cancers aren't fighters, you are wrong. They are fierce. Strong competitors.
That's why Cardinal energy is often called controlling.
Aries is the only Fire cardinal sign, so it will go after its aims in a more outwardly impassioned manner.
Keyword being passion, which is Fire.

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MTE....if we aren't changing the direction of things then that totally defeats the purpose of us being cardinal...LOL. I think I already named some good examples: Alexander The Great...conquered alot of the known world (to him) in so little time. He didn't do that by sitting back and knitting booties. I did a series of writing projects with a double Libra a couple of years ago and they took off like rockets. Granted, we both have Mars in Aries but its unfair to discount the rest of the Cardinal energy between us (I have Sun, Mercury, Chiron, and Juno in Cancer). Ironically its also what split us apart: on a later project, we couldn't agree on what direction to take, and I felt like she was trying to take over the entire thing...leaving me with little room for my own creativity. I'm actually heavily mutable too so I tried to go with the flow at first, but in the end the Cardinal said 'no'.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlutoSquared:
Glad to know you can relate to the saturn square. I wonder if one would notice the square more consistently than the opposition? Or, what the exact difference would be between the opposition and the square from Saturn...

I know the opposition definitely feels like it's unexpected and somewhat "jumps" in to yank me backwards... It's frustrating, because I also want to see from the perspective of Saturn in my 3rd house...

I am, at this point, more comfortable with seeing things in a Saturn way... and have a hard time relating to sagittarius 9th house, Aries energy, at times... if that makes sense? It's like my mind wants to understand things in a responsible, methodical and organized way, and yet there's another aspect of energy that wants to just "act"...

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My Saturn's in the 12th so its a more mystical one than most. In laymen's terms: I get royally screwed by some cosmic force out there that I cannot see whenever I act too impulsively. Its annoying. I often ask the higher power if they really even want me to go after what I want in life. I just don't get it sometimes.

posted January 14, 2011 01:18 PM            

-Cardinal is the mode that initiates, not the Fire element specifically, only Aries, which is a Cardinal sign

-Fire is misunderstood because it's viewed as childish. It's not their fault, it's the lack of respect from other people in the way they see Fire signs and childlike qualities. People forget that creativity comes from a child's way of seeing the world, being curious and open to experience. Fire is here to experience life, not to sit on the sidelines.

-Fire void charts can produce people who show huge Fire traits, even alcoholism (a fire sign affliction, "drinking the fire", smoking), dancing, creative arts, love affairs up the wazoo. You can call it overcompensation, or you can say that the element is very incorporated, hence it's lack of emphasis. There are 2 trains of thought on this.

-Interestingly, people who do have a lot of Fire many times come across as the opposite, sort of quiet, and seeming to hide themselves. This is sometimes due to their Fire sign traits being shown early on somewhere, and someone in authority shushing them all away, so the Fire is buried there somewhere. If you know this type of person you have to keep encouraging them toward Fire element activities/ways of being, otherwise they will feel lost. They need someone to tell them it's OK to be enthusiastic, etc, and not to feel dumb about it."

posted January 14, 2011 02:42 PM            

Before you brush this off as an ego-centric ranting, hear me out.

Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius have a way of heating things up, getting them out into the open, initiating fights, etc. etc. kinda like putting flame on the gasoline.

When things go BOOM, the earth signs have more to rebuild, the water signs have more hearts to heal and emotionally process, the air signs have more to think about... and everyone is happy?

Do you disagree?

----------------------------------

Karmic Wheel Theory, Or just a "wheel"
One action makes another happen,with each piece being a part of a larger whole.
Picture one small wheel inside a larger one, then a larger one than that.. so forth.

PlutoS I know you are familiar to all this but maybe some are not, so it is more for them.

Mayans had cycles, so do we, everything does if you want to see it that way. (you can take that idea and with reason go as small or as large as reality will allow, meaning it can cover a wide range out of the sphere of astrology.)

So basically yes I do agree with you, But I only understand the example by putting it in a much larger context, Because IMHO it would be a great waste and irrelevant if the fire motivations (just like water/air/earth) did not serve a larger purpose.

I am just one human trying to find purpose and relevancy in something that may ultimately prove non-important in the great scheme of things.

posted January 14, 2011 02:58 PM            

quote:

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BENEDICTMOON said:

My Saturn's in the 12th so its a more mystical one than most. In laymen's terms: I get royally screwed by some cosmic force out there that I cannot see whenever I act too impulsively. Its annoying. I often ask the higher power if they really even want me to go after what I want in life. I just don't get it sometimes.

And I don't think fire's the only one that feels dampened upon in life, water often has to hide itself too IMO. I find my cancer stellium heavily depressed/repressed/dissapointed by all the Capricorn things and responsibilities that get pushed upon me in daily life. The things associated with both these elements are either feared or not respected at all....unless you're in show-biz or live in Soho. I dunno, those are just my feelings on the elemental business.

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Of course, it's hard to realize how similar the issues are between elements and signs without having someone point it out, like you just did... Good points, and hopefully you'll elaborate more on the Cancer/Capricorn, Earth/Water experience.

posted January 14, 2011 03:12 PM            

quote:

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Mblake81 said:
So basically yes I do agree with you, But I only understand the example by putting it in a much larger context, Because IMHO it would be a great waste and irrelevant if the fire motivations (just like water/air/earth) did not serve a larger purpose.

I am just one human trying to find purpose and relevancy in something that may ultimately prove non-important in the great scheme of things.

WHO KNOWS, its just a way my dry brain can comprehend.

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posted January 14, 2011 08:09 PM            

quote:

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I must admit I almost always agree with your insights and I have even learned a thing or two from you but I must ask why do you think alcoholism is a fire trait?
Did I just read it wrong?

Alcoholism and addiction are usually assigned to the Water signs, specifically Pisces which makes total sense with Neptune ruling.

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quote:

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As a means to shed inhibitions and imbue a more extrovert way of being, then I think the Fire element is involved, because it's giving one a sense of basically a healthy ego (Sun) and confidence (Mars) and good times (Jupiter).

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I couldn't agree more. It's been my experience that fire signs tend towards alcoholism as a means of being socially active and 'fitting in' with the group, as well as a way of gaining confidence and courage to do some of the crazy things they do. Think frat boy at a college party...

Water signs also tend towards alcoholism, but more as an escape from their overwhelming problems and emotions. It can then also serve as a way to gain something of a social group to immerse themselves with. Think the guy at the local bar who goes every week and chats with the bartender and other locals...

Two different aims, but the same use of the substance. Actually, I've known several heavy fire/water people who were/are alcoholics, so I think that the combo of the two can tend towards that if they are maladaptive in handling their problems or social life.

Which is not to say that earth and air don't become alcoholics too... It's just that it's more rare (in my opinion). Earth signs like to have too much control over themselves and air signs like to have too much control over how others view them. I've actually noticed an interesting phenomenon among both heavy air/heavy earth people- it can be hard to tell when they are drunk. They will usually become more talkative, but often you can't even tell they are trashed.