posted June 13, 2014 03:19 AM            

also Pisces mars

also anything pisces

posted June 13, 2014 01:35 PM            

I may not be a "master manipulator" but I DO know when someone is trying to manipulate me. Sometimes I ask myself if they are being this obvious on purpose or do they really think I'm going to take their bait? Sometimes I'll play along but most times I'll call them out.

posted June 13, 2014 02:35 PM            

Some people aren't good with verbal comprehension and may defer too easily to someone who sounds credible...but isn't.

Some people are suckers for a sob story. Some people hate sob stories and will be all too willing to jump on a bandwagon against whoever is whining.

In my life, I was probably manipulated the most obviously and drastically by someone who shares many of my same placements (same sun and moon, and other stuff.) It's like this person had my source code.

Oh and of course there's this:

posted June 13, 2014 02:39 PM            

I can be quite gullible. Not sure what in my chart suggests that.

posted June 13, 2014 02:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Just think if everyone hated a sob story and turned a deaf ear, how can you expect the sobee to ever make it? Man does not exist in a vacuum! Help people help themselves!

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Me, too, I love sob stories.

And LOL @ "sobee"

posted June 13, 2014 02:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
I think another interesting question would be... Who's likely to be manipulated easily?

I can be quite gullible. Not sure what in my chart suggests that.

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posted June 13, 2014 04:06 PM            

Is how you dress to create an impression a form of manipulation? How about buying dinner for a date or someone you want to do business with? What about when you're friendly with someone even when you don't want to be just because you need their help, or even just keep the workplace as drama free as possible?

When a commercial uses music, colors, and other elements that market research has shown quite effective at selling a product then is it still manipulative if it's only telling the truth in addition to the proven techniques? Should they simply be honest and straightforward without all the manipulation even though it will probably cost them (possibly everything) to do so?

posted June 13, 2014 04:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by babybull82:
Honestly, I know this may sound crazy, but I think a water sign would be most gullible. The most "manipulative" could be the manipulatee (not a word I know lol) If we talking sob stories and emotional type things then yea. While my daughter does have a the ability to manipulate I worry that because of all of her water and sensitivity, she'd be the first one give a helping hand if she felt someone needed it. Again am I making any sense? lol

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It depends on how you define manipulation.

But the way I would define it, I wouldn't think your daughter is manipulative. Instead, she's asking for what she herself is willing to give. Just because she more readily asks for help & support than you and I do doesn't make her manipulative in my book as long as she's willing to give back the same.

Her instinct is to reach out and help people and therefore can't understand why others aren't the same way with her, so she's not manipulating you with guilt or whatever, she's expecting to get back what she gives (or at least is willing to give) and gets confused when others aren't as giving and supportive as she is (which can come off as manipulative to those who can't see it from her subjective perspective).

posted June 13, 2014 04:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
It depends on how you define manipulation.

But the way I would define it, I wouldn't think your daughter is manipulative. Instead, she's asking for what she herself is willing to give. Just because she more readily asks for help & support than you and I do doesn't make her manipulative in my book as long as she's willing to give back the same.

Her instinct is to reach out and help people and therefore can't understand why others aren't the same way with her, so she's not manipulating you with guilt or whatever, she's expecting to get back what she gives (or at least is willing to give) and gets confused when others aren't as giving and supportive as she is (which can come off as manipulative to those who can't see it from her subjective perspective).

This assumes she is willing to help others as readily as she wants others to help her. I'm well aware of people who use dishonest guilt tactics, blatantly hypocritical double standards, and who do small favors so they can make unreasonable demands or otherwise then reveal hidden price tags after, all of which is manipulative...and it doesn't sound to me to be what your daughter is doing.

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Hmm, well maybe I need to truly look into what manipulative means. I guess to me I see it as wanting something from someone and instead of asking for it directly they go in a round about way of getting it. My daughter does not ask for help directly, she'll make a comment or behave a certain way instead of just being direct. Also I have to understand that I'm dealing with a child, but she's also very smart and I've watched how she is with her sister and her friends and she can pretty much get them to do whatever she wants them too.

posted June 13, 2014 04:54 PM            

That could be she's either learned to feel guilty for asking for things (or knows better than to ask for too much) or, more likely, she feels a "no" very keenly and emotionally. With manipulation she might not get what she wants but at the same time it doesn't cut her like a knife in the same way if she asked directly and got told "no" flat out.

Then there's just how girls grow up. For whatever reason (I've heard several theories ranging from sociological to evolutionary psychology) girls have to play a very delicate balancing act of assertive, but not too assertive, and to not offend the wrong people, which inclines them to certain behaviors that some would label outright as "manipulative" ('course when guys do the same thing it's often called "politics as usual" of kissing babies and telling people whatever they want to hear ). To make demands is to offend (sooner or later) and and seen as obnoxious when girls do it too often and such a girl can be shunned by other girls. Instead there's a complicated game of finding consensus as well as who gets looked to for leadership (which can easily break down into factions that are very double faced). Generally speaking, getting in trouble tends to look worse for girls so they avoid it by avoiding open confrontation (at least face to face) and tend to turn rage in on themselves (or a girl who's a safe target). So even if she doesn't learn this at home she can still learn it from other girls.

posted June 13, 2014 06:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Venusian Moon:
Pluto

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Yes, Pluto! How come everyone says Pisces and what not, but not Scorpio? Also, Libra can be manipulative, there's a combination between "I want it done MY way" (cardinal) and a fear of confrontation. But the master of puppets would definitely have Pluto aspects or Scorpio planets, IMO.
I agree that water signs would be manipulative, but the question is which one is good at it - Cancers are really transparent and broody and Pisces will cry you into submission. Is that good manipulation? I don't think so, it gets old and eventually the other person leaves.

posted June 13, 2014 06:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Here's another interesting question, IMO...What's the difference between manipulation and persuasion?

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posted June 13, 2014 06:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Me, too, I love sob stories.

And LOL @ "sobee"

But I know someone who used to really bend over backwards for anyone who was in a crisis, and after getting burned a few times (with ingratitude, or unwanted drama) now kinda bristles at anyone who has their hand out. And would jump at the opportunity to discredit the sobee.

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It's essential to provide the right kind of help
Hand up instead of hand out.

Which reminds me of something that just happened I want to relate. I was at the store just a few minutes ago buying something to put on all the little weedy trees growing all over my yard that will hopefully stop them.
On the way home, I saw a man at the back of the lot standing under a tree with a cardboard sign. I couldn't see what exactly was written on it. I am sure I can use my imagination to figure it out. He had his wife and young baby child with him, sitting in the shade of a tree. When I looked over he started motioning with his head and for a moment, I thought about giving him a dollar out of my purse. Then I thought about how many new stores have opened in the area over the past few years. Quite a few, along with office buildings. The area has just undergone intense development. Now why is it these two cannot find something betwixt them with all the opportunity as of it not to mention the store I was at has a "now hiring" near the entrance to the parking lot.
So what gives?
This isn't the first time I have seen an entire family doing the same thing in nearly the same spot.
With this kind of scenario, people who look healthy and intelligent, just standing there trying to beg money from people, I can understand why some would shy away...I did. I drove away as quickly as possible which really wasn't that fast since the speed limit is only something like 10 mph.
I guess some would say this is an example of someone with a sob story. To me, helping is more about giving someone a lift to go put in job applications, stuff like that, not just handing over the keys to the Lexus, which I don't even have, btw, lol! Still, you get my meaning. Help others help themselves. Hand up not hand out

If the people standing there asking for money looked like they had some serious issue that kept them from finding work, I would give them a dollar, maybe five dollars. Oddly, I never see any that look quite that bad off out there. The ones I see look pretty capable of working lol.